Is it out of order for man to try it on with you when....

[littlestmummystop]

you've explicitly asked him not to.

This has happened to me twice now. I've been on several dates with a guy, he asks or hints to come back to my place saying: 'I'll sleep on the sofa'

When I have let him back I make it clear 'No Sex' but after a kiss and cuddle all of a sudden his exposed knob appears.... and he asks: 'Please please touch it...'

This has happened to my twice now, two different men.

Both times I have refused and gone to bed thinking they've spoilt it. I like to get to know someone really well before I sleep with them and know we're in a relationship etc. I don't want quick hand jobs on my sofa and make that clear before they come back. So why do they do it?

Isn't it disrespectful to still try it on when you've been asked not to?

Haven't the time to trawl through the whole thread,but to the OP - don't waste another minute on these two dickweeds.

"IME guys that know how to behave himself WAIT. They wait until you ask them back to your place"

Really? So once you've invited a bloke into your house, that is a signal that you intend to have sex with them is it?

Is it? Seriously, I had no idea that that is the convention.

There is a No means No campaign for a reason. Date rape has been around for a long time. Clearly being invited back or allowed back to a woman's home does mean something different to some men. It shouldn't be this way, but it is.

The OP HAS to take some responsibility here.

If you absolutely do not want to have sex with a man do NOT invite him to stay the night at your place.

H

She didn't invite them to spend the night at her place - they inveigled their way in and I can imagine the situation where it seems a bit weird and hysterical to insist they go home. Well that's what I've always thought - that if you're dating a man, you treat him like a human being, not a slavering would-be rapist who won't be able to control himself when left alone with you.

This thread has been hugely enlightening - not only did I not realise how many women blame other women for sexual assault but I also wasn't aware how many of you apparently say no when you don't mean that. Way to go women

I truly cannot believe some of these comments. Yep, they were WAY out of order.

I can only feel pity for the women on here that believe it is the OPs fault in some way that these men behaved in these ways.

People have to take responsibility for their OWN actions, and these men were out of order.

I am going to leave this post now

Dittany - you're talking about the ideal world. I'm talking about the real one.

I actually think the OP is probably the usual made up, weekend troll nonsense - the use of language doesn't seem very genuine to me.

No, of course I don't think that.

Drunk woman walks home alone along dangerous route at 3am - she's mugged. Is it her fault? No of course not. Does she deserve our sympathy. yes, absolutely. Could she have avoided the incident with more sensible behaviour. Yes.

Same goes for the OP

OK, so if a woman inviting a man into her home is the green light for him to expect sex, what about getting married? That's surely way more of a green light isn't it? So married men can expect sex all the time, whenever they like?

Ooh, good timing for me to return to this thread, just as my name crops up.

dittany, No it wouldn't have been OK for him to charge on and have sex with me because I did mean no when I said it (i.e. not right this second) but it wasn't a no overall, as we would eventually have sex. I was just trying to point out that a lot of guys will have probably encountered the fact that a woman says no, but will later agree, which will confuse them about no meaning no. So that particular man may later think that when a girl says no, she means 'maybe later'.

Also, because of general societal prejudice, a woman who agrees easily to sex will be viewed badly, whereas a man wouldn't, so sometimes girls will say no just because they don't want to seem 'easy'. Trust me, I have existed in male-dominated, patriarchal institutions for most of my life and I know how a certain type of man's mind works, which is why I wanted to warn the OP for the future, not blame her. It's not fair, it's shit - but that's life. You have to be careful.

"if she didn't want these men to come home with her and didn't want to have sex with them, then WHY once they were in the house was she getting up close and personal on the sofa??"

Because it was a date? As far as I'm aware you can get up close and personal without it having to include sex.

She was on a date, which I imagine didn't involve avoidance of touch and was going well enough to feel safe letting them into the house. In that situation why would you decide that it was a good date but then try and force them out of the house asap? Just because she was still enjoying their company doesn't mean they should have ignored her saying "no sex". And anyone who thinks otherwise is truly terrifying to me!

But I was definitely giving mixed messages at best. And it wasn't massively dissimilar to what the OP said, that she said no but then went on to cuddling and kissing them. She didn't want it to go any further than that, but in that situation I used kissing etc. as a signal to say 'Actually...'.

As I've said, I would definitely try to avoid mixed messages now because it's dangerous.

No, kissing on its own is lovely. But I think people do have the idea that there is a 'progression' in these things, kind of like the American base system. If I was kissing someone and they moved my hand down to their crotch, I would just take my hand away (assuming I didn't want that). I wouldn't be offended that they tried to move things on - unless they got arsey about it and then I'd probably just bottle them. I tend to take the lead from men during sex, rather than initiating things myself all the time.

So (personal question) in relationships do you prefer to direct every stage towards sex yourself? Does a man have to formally ask every time they think of moving on to something else? The way I see it, it's fine for them to suggest something or intimate that they would like to do something else/more, but if I don't want to I have the final word. I thought that was how most people operated.

I'm wondering if these men were hoping for just foreplay and not full sex? An exposed penis isn't necessarily only exposed for sex

I do think you do need to exercise a level of self care in all situations and inviting people who don't know very well into your home, I wouldn't do

Many women don't verbalise if they are up for sex, I know women who have said no way, I'm not that kind of girl just because they don't want to be labelled or seen to be easy, when they have all intentions of having sex. Humans will push their luck if they think they'll get more than a kiss.

I really don't think it is trying to take control. It's making a proposition which you are free to reject, and is less cringey than saying 'Please will you touch my willy?'. DP did this very early on in our relationship, and it was fine. I didn't feel any pressure that I had to, and he really is the least controlling person ever. I think you are (understandably) being a bit sensitive about this in particular. I hate the head-pushing thing though - DP never does it.