If you're good looking, is it harder to find someone who really is decent?

[electra]

......in much the same way that rich people sometimes don't know how much a person is with them for their money?

It's a serious question...

abouteve - sometimes women are very open about it - they have said exactly that to me.

It depends on what you mean by goodlooking.

Do you mean big boobs, straightened hair, fake tan good-looking with high heels etc?

Or skinny, tall model strikingly beautiful good-looking and wearing skinny jeans and old (designer) jumper etc

Certain women attract a certain type of man. Also depends on where you are, a club or work place/ university etc

I don't believe being attractive is a hindrance, as long as the woman is smart about it (all this is in general)

Janos - I agree, I have mental health issues. I'm frequently told 'how could someone who looks like you be depressed?' hmmmmmm

I'm not the fake tan kind......!

Responding to sparkybint without reading rest of thread ... 'a great line from Peep Show "she was an irresistible combination of good looks and low self-esteem" ' Never heard the line, but remember saying it myself more than once!

What I like about me now - I'm 'content'. And I don't really give a shit what anybody else thinks of me

It's a hell of a relief.

Maybe a change of scene to one with better men? Not sure how, but perhaps make one new decent friend then meet all her male single friends. I'm really sure being stunning will help you find some one good not vice versa.

electra: "But the problem is, Maggie that you don't always know someone is a bastard. He may put on a show of being genuine and caring and is really out for what he can get and then you discover too late what the truth is." Hmm. I find this statement interesting, because I always know when a man is a bastard. Always. With my friend's partners, too. You have to learn to read the signs and trust your instincts about people. Over the years I have learned to trust my instincts about people and they (my instincts) have never let me down.

Speedy, did you manage to learn the signs without having to live through the 'bastardness' yourself?
If so - can you share? Please.

Yes. Have never dated a bastard. Have always run a mile from them.

I wish I could tell you how to learn...you just have to make yourself observe people really closely, but also observe yourself really closely, as your instinct does warn you. We all make a decision as to whether or not we're going to attend to our instincts, so perhaps part of the 'lesson' is to train yourself not to ignore your instincts.

Maybe one way to start would be to closely observe people you now know to be bastards, or perhaps ask your friends who know them to tell you what signs they see of bastardness in those people.

I'm sorry I can't be clearer than that, but maybe someone clever has written a book about it?

Nice to hear what you said - thanks
I do recognise the signs now ... because they are the exact same signals that caused me 'fatal attraction'! Trouble is, I'm currently at the stage of knowing which triggers are the 'wrong' ones - but don't have a replacement of 'right' triggers yet

There are books on "how to recognise". I read them before I'd twigged what was really going on, so always told myself "yes, but ..." And thus begins another story of persecutor/victim/rescuer. Sigh.
I guess the real point is, it has bugger all to do with what you look like - and everything to do with what you think you are?

Your last statement is so true. Although I understand what factors lead people to make such bad relationship decisions, I can never connect with what it is in a man/ woman that makes them choose partners who will harm them in one way or another. I may not be the world's most stunning woman, but I am glad to have a higher opinion of myself than the poor people who suffer at the hands of bastards.

I guess in your situation a good approach would be to go for someone who is unlike your usual, and see how that works - not 'see if he's the man of your dreams', but just 'see if he turns out not to be a bastard'. Then you can start to create a better pattern which you can use to match other men to.

What Sparky said.

Very interesting thread. Much food for thought!

Would just like to interrupt this thread to say phwoar at coldtits

as you were

I'm absolutely sure it's possible to read all sorts of signs. My sister unerringly goes for misogynist, immature, nasty bastards, every single time, even though they can seem nice at first but they always fall into the same type - she must be reading some kind of sign without realising it.

Conversely, for years and years when I was young, every man I was attracted to and started seeing turned out to be a very sheltered corn-fed type from a happy family with 2.4 kids and parents still together (unlike our dysfunctional family). While my sister has responded to abuse by seeking an abusive partner, I responded by seeking a safe, dull one. Both reading the signs super-efficiently without knowing how.

I broke my pattern because those relationships never lasted, but my sister hasn't (though this isn't particularly about looks, we're both average I'd say). It is possible to break it I think - start by asking yourself what draws you to that man and how he reminds you of previous ones.

Another one here who's never dated a bastard, at least not for more than a week or two. It is all about a feeling of self-worth I think, especially with people who want to play with your mind to gain domination over you. You have to be able to tell yourself at a very early stage in the relationship that you deserve better.

IMO the niceness of the person you end up with doesn't depend on what you are like in the eyes of others (i.e. very nice with very nice, good-looking with good-looking) but has a lot more to do with what you think of yourself. If you think you are nice, pretty, fun, interesting etc you are far more likely to end up with someone like that.

Ooh one more suggestion, a friend of mine had a series of crap relationships and decided to write a "shopping list" of what exactly she wanted in a man, resolving not to settle for anything less. She found the right one amazingly fast after that. Have you tried that OP? You can make it a long list

Thanks - you have all been so helpful and have given me a lot to think about.

I know that I have a problem with what I let people get away with. I don't always recognise it when someone is being abusive, or worse - I ignore it. I am also very inefficient at ending things before something terrible happens. 'You're not a finisher are you?' is something a friend says to me...

'IMO the niceness of the person you end up with doesn't depend on what you are like in the eyes of others (i.e. very nice with very nice, good-looking with good-looking) but has a lot more to do with what you think of yourself.'

How true that is. I don't know whether the emotional abuse I've had from my own parents is the reason why I don't know how to kick other people to the curb when they are clearly messing with me. And I have a very poor relationship with my father, who didn't want children, couldn't care less about me and has never even tried to hide his feelings of how unnecessary he considers me to be.

Sorry, I'm honestly not trying to evoke sympathy but I really need to address this because history will keep repeating itself. Perhaps I don't value myself as a person enough.

I suppose it depends if you, yourself go for looks or not. A very good looking man doesn't need to try very hard as he has lots of options available everywhere he goes. Looking back at this thread I can see where I went wrong, expecting Mr drop dead gorgeous
to chase after me when really I had to do the chasing. Still I kept my dignity and can look back and smile.

I'm still mainly attracted to good looking men. Just met two recently, both nice with it but are prone to bastardly tendancies. It's important to enjoy the company but don't hold out hope with these kinds. If you really want long term then best to find someone more average and read the signs as others have said.

I should think it has loads to do with it Electra, how could it not? Your parents, the people who are supposed to love you and value you more than anyone in the world, instead taught you that you were faulty and "unnecessary". That your father should think of you like that is so sad I could cry. Not a surprise under the circs that you find it hard to place a high value on yourself.

Have you had any counselling at all? It might help, and if you're depressed you can sometimes get it on the NHS.

Have a think about the shopping list thing too, it is good to have a big list of nice qualities to look out for, and a resolve to stay single until you find them. Good in two ways 1) it's all about what you want, rather than what the men want, and 2)it will probably (but not def) result in a period of being single which it sounds like you need. Pin the list on the wall and get a friend to suggest anything you might have forgotten!

Btw, I'm sure you are lovely and deserve a smashing bloke. Do you have many close (esp female) friends? Nothing like being around friends to boost your self-esteem IME.

Thanks for your kind words. I do have some lovely female friends, yes - so I'm lucky in that respect.

Electra, you've recognised where it comes from and can change things. I didn't realise until a long way down the line, and it's really only after my last relationship fiasco that I think the penny's finally dropped! It's interesting, my mum has always been doted on by my dad (who's more attractive than her) and she's never allowed crap of any sort from him. The reason? She was loved and cherished by her own parents, especially her father. She simply can't understand why I've never found happiness and there's very little point in telling her it all started with dad....

And Grace, what you say "it has bugger all to do with what you look like - and everything to do with what you think you are" that really sums it up. I still look at women who are far less attractive than I am but who are in happy, long-term relationships and wonder what it is they've got that I haven't. But at least DD has inherited my looks, just hope she has the self-esteem to go with them - I'm really working on it!

I think it is probably true, not from my experience of how people react to my looks as I think I have some 'interesting' features , but I think part of the reason I find men who other people say are ugly/uncool, attractive, is that this makes me think they are more likely to be nice people. I react against conventionally good looking men because I hate arrogance and feel they are more likely to be arrogant.

It is sad that women avoid talking to other women who are attractive because they don't trust them or are jealous of them. Lots of people think that 'if I looked like that I'd have nothing to complain about', but this thread just shows that everyone has their share of problems whether they are good looking or not.

My DH has said that he 'chose' me because I was slightly 'different' because this made him think I would fit in with him and his 'slightly different' friends and he would be able to relate to me better than someone who was really good looking who he would have to be on his best behaviour with all the time. We have always completely been ourselves with each other and not tried to be more 'impressive' and I think that has benefitted our relationship and we feel happy and relaxed and contented together.

I don't feel my life would be better if I was better looking. Good job, as I'm not haha! But the key thing is being happy with yourself, your whole self, which includes more than your looks. Also to look for more than looks in a partner if you want it to be a relationship that you feel happy in, that will last. Look at how well you get along with someone rather than how good looking they are. This is something that it takes time to learn about a person, so jumping straight into bed with them might not be the best thing (for anyone who does this and then regrets it because they weren't only after a quick shag). (Not that I have followed this advice in the past myself, what a hypocrite! But if I went back in time I would do things differently.)

Surely it's all relative? Wankers come in all shapes and forma nd all grades of 'good lokingness' (I am making up words now)

I Would say, I guess if you are good looking then men might not approach you as they think you might be out of their league?

i think maybe the 'key' if there is one, is to have your good-guy antennae honed while you're still young and attractive . sad but true. I now fully understand the mistakes I made in the past and would love a second chance. but this newfound knowledge is worthless, given that I am so average looking and well past the first flush of youth. I know people older than me find luuurrrrve again though. never say never! i don't exactly try to find it.

belledamesansmerci, when i see men fawning pathetically all over beautiful women, say on the tube eg, they stare right through me even though I'm closer and offer a seat to a beautiful girl a metre beyond me, I feel pity and contempt for the man!? is that unusual?? I have no problem wiht women who are more attractive than i am!! no my problem is with MEN! they're to blame for everything! i'd better stop typing now before i'm carted off by a man in a white coat..

I think a lot of people, women as well as men, judge a ridiculous amount by physical beauty. Did you see that report just after Christmas, about some dating site dedicated to beauty, and you can get voted off by other members if they think you aren't beautiful enough? fairly appalling that anyone will play along with that.

electra, I ended up with an abusive bastard. I think it is all down to self-esteem - they sniff out if you are vulnerable. Have you read teh Lundy Bancroft books? or other books about abusive relationships, it is very helpful when you recognise people you know, and realise how closely they conform to a type.