Our first Relate appointment is tomorrow, I'm scared.

[Scorps]

DH & I are at 'shit or bust' point in our marriage. He came back to the family home on Friday night after 12 days away; He says he doesn't love me anymore. We want to go to counselling and try, because at least if we do split we can say we did everything possible. It has all stemmed from when i mc in Feb i think. I got pg v quickly after, but totally withdrew into myself. Another woman paid him attention and when i was 15 weeks pg he kissed her. Since then i have been terrified and not let him out of my sight, have withdrawn love from him and affection, etc. He would say he loved me and i wouldnt even say anything back.

He is behaving oddly now - saying he doesn't love me, then when i had a 'revelation' this morning saying to him that maybe because of my self worth i should just quit now, i have alot to offer a man etc, he gets upset. We have had sex this weekend too but I'm not allowing that anymore - he can't reach out to me on the sofa, but tries to have sex. I told him today no more of that and he agreed. He said he wants his affection to be true when he does it, and i think thats best too.

He is not nasty; I'm 38+3 weeks with dc4 and he is caring for me and the dc. I have enough money, etc. He is a fantastic father and really wants to go to Relate, but isnt commiting himself to saying he wants our marriage to work.

I'm scared about the appointment, what we will have to talk about, what he will say that will just hurt me more, Relate isn't superglue .

What will happen, any advice, nice things to say to me? Feel like im living life blindfolded. Please dont think he's nasty hes not, its been such a hard year, 2009 has.

I am reliant on him. He will do the physical caring very well. I intend on going to my parents house with baby too for some love iyswim.

I rang relate and they have made a special allowance and we can go back on 5th jan. That's a bit better. So now I just have to get through Xmas and baby until I can get some more clarification.

I have homebirths. The mws know but I can't get hold of one today.

You never know Scorps, the sight of you with a newborn might just be the jolt he needs to realise the things that are really important in life and that matter above all else. My DH started having more of these type of "epithanys" (once he was out of the cluthes of the OW and her manipulative ways).

Someone also sent him an email about life being like a jar of pebbles/sand etc when it was all going on. I'll see if I can find it - it was about the big pebbles being family, smaller ones work etc.

Here you are Scorps, this helped my DH get things straight in his head (stresses with money/business etc not to mention us). One of his best friends emailed it to him when his life was imploding around him, only in his version it was beer and not coffee .

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The Mayonnaise Jar and 2 Cups of Coffee

A philosophy professor stood before his class with some items in front of him. He wordlessly picked up a very large and empty mayonnaise jar and proceeded to fill it with golf balls. He then asked the students if the jar was full. They agreed that it was.

The professor then picked up a box of pebbles and poured them into the jar, shaking it slightly. The pebbles filled up the spaces in between the golf balls. He then asked the students again if the jar was full. The agreed that it was.

The professor then picked up a box of sand and poured that into the jar. Of course, the sand filled up everything else. He asked again if the jar was full. The students responded with a resounding ?yes?.

The professor then produced two cups of coffee from under the table and poured the entire contents of both into the jar, effectively filling up the spaces in between the sand. The students laughed.

?Now,? Said the professor as the laughter subsided, ?I want you to recognize that the jar represents your life. The golf balls are the important things?.your family, your children, your health, your friends and favorite passions?.and if everything else was lost and only they remained, your life would still be full.?

?The pebbles are the other things that matter like your job, your house, and your car.?

?The sand is everything else...the small stuff. If you put the sand into the jar first there is no room for the pebbles or the golf balls. The same goes for life. If you spend you?re your time and energy on the small stuff, you will never have room for the things that are important to you.?

?Pay attention to the things that are critical to your happiness. Spend time with your children. Spend time with your parents. Visit with grandparents. Take time to get medical check-ups. Take your spouse out to dinner. Play another 18. There will always be time to clean the house and fix the disposal. Take care of the golf balls first..the things that really matter. Set your priorities. The rest is just sand.?

One of the students raised her hand and inquired to what the coffee represented. The professor smiled and said, ?I am glad you asked.?

?The coffee just shows you that no matter how full you life may seem, there?s always room for a couple cups of coffee with a friend.?

When life seems rough and that 24 hours in a day just aren?t enough, remember the jar and 2 cups of coffee.

He could see how exhausted and upset i was, and still couldn't give me a cuddle.

This isn't goin to work is it, my marriage has gone hasn't it?

Just let it be for now, try not to overthink things, over analyse etc. We are all guilty of that. Even now, after all the therapy me and my DH have had, he doesn't always recognise when I could really do with a hug and I have to ask him. Have a relaxing bath tonight, do something to make you feel good/better. Put on a face mask, do your nails etc whilst you have got time before the baby is here, pamper yourself.

When me and my DH were living apart, I always made a point of having a relaxing bath every night as I was so "strung out" by events. It helped to calm me down, made a point of doing all the little beauty things eg plucking eyebrows etc so even if I was feeling bad on the inside, I would look OKish on the outside IYSWIM.

Thanks again I hv put song on my iPod now.

I just can't see any progress, how this will ever get better. I can only see a break up. I miss him so much.

I wish he would say; isn't this horrid thing to do to someone esp one so pg?

"He was honest at Relate; but some things he says are so non-commital...he doesnt want me to 'go off' him, he is waiting for a spark, he doesnt know if he can be happy with me, he doesnt want to be physical incase it misleads and he doesnt feel like it, its all so odd."

Scorps, this made me gasp because it is absolutely exactly to the word what H said during our Relate sessions. In our case there was an OW involved I'm afraid. Could that be where he's going every evening?

You need to call him on it, but I know the timing is so difficult. Maybe you could agree just to park all of this for a few weeks and concentrate on the baby.

I hate to say it but Tired could be right. It sounds like my DH when he was with OW. Your H knows what he should do ie be with and commit to you but there is probably somebody "pulling" him away.

This is the feeling you are getting - when my DH was in the throws of the affair I knew I had "lost" him, for the want of a better word. The anxiety was crippling and TBH, his behaviour at that time to me was absolutely appalling. If you feel up to it, ask him to be completely honest with you. I was a bit when you said he was visiting a female friend 8 miles away - he should be with you and no one else at this time. Unfortunately you cannot control anyone though except yourself and the best you can hope for at this time is his honesty. It is better to know the truth (and I can say that after what I have been through) than to live in the permanent state of anxiety in your condition. It is not a fair or level playing field if there is an OW in the background. And they only really start to think "normally" when the OW is completely out of the picture and not "blurring" the issue.

If things get tough for you and you need to speak to someone, give the Samaritans a call - I phoned them at 2.00am when my DH upped and left me at midnight to get his "space". They are very well trained and I felt a little better after speaking to them or should I say off loaded.

No there is no OW. He has alot of female friends and always has done.

He came home about 1130pm last night. We sat up for about an hour talking. I told him I felt used, alone, unloved, unliked. I told him I wanted him to go, that I'm worth more. He said things like he had tried with me (before) and that he thought we were going to relate.

We went to sleep on that, but both decided this morning that I basically need his help with the baby and he seems to want relate alot. He keeps saying I can't be what he wants anymore. I actually asked why the fuck do you want to even go to relate, he says to have tried but he's not trying at all one way or another. He says he doesn't feel the need to contact me, touch me anymore etc.

We have said that we will do baby and Xmas and our 5th jan relate and then decide. I have to learn that this is it now and to grow apart starting now.

He doesn't seem to acknowledge how alone and rejected I feel, especially so pregnant. But he still refuses to call time on this, I think for baby situation at the mo. I said to him hr seems to be coping fine; he said he thought we had a plan and is doing that. He is detached from me already, there is no hope Herr and I MUST realise that now.

Your partner possibly is worried about be labelled as the 'nasty kind of man who left his lady when she was heaviliy preg with children', etc etc. So he's kind of treading water until a better, more pc time.

What he will find though, when you do go to Relate (great that they made an exception so you can go back in Jan, btw!) is that he will be expected to do something. Not just talk, there will have to be an actual improvement in his behaviour towards you or it will be obvious that he isn't interested in making things better. And he may hear some uncomfortable things at Relate: at the moment, he seems to see it as a concession to you: I will do what I like, go out a lot, but hey I'm SAYING the right things! I'm booked in for Relate, aren't I? What more do you want? etc etc.

Sorry, have to go, toddler is creating mayhem with nappy bags. x

This is what I keep saying and thinking; why can't he say either way?? I think it's because of baby an he knows I will need physical help.

I can't see him changing his mind in 19 days.

Scorps, try and have an individual session at Relate and maybe he should have one too. My Therapist did this with both of us - we had one each on the same day. You need to hear some truths and so does he. My therapist basically told me I had to decide how much I was going to put up with (which she could say to me in front of him) and he was basically told he had to grow and behave like an adult, yes he had reasons for behaving the way he did ie his dysfunctional childhood but it wasn't on and he had to change if he wanted to turn his life around.

It is good that they are going to see you ahead of time, our therapist did this with us instead of putting us on a waiting list. She felt we had a chance but needed immediate help - we were in total crisis. Even through the process, she thought we only had a 50/50 chance of making it. It takes a lot of work on both sides so if one person isn't committed then you might as well throw in the towel. He has to be told this and that is why you both probably need individual sessions. Talking about it on a one to one basis will help you so much.

(which she couldn't say in front of him) oops

I'd been carefully trying not to say what Tired and Counting did - that it does sound as if he is being confused by another woman on the scene. It is quite likely that he is having feelings for one of these friends, even if he's not acting on them or consciously aware of them. At the very least he may be comparing you to some of the (non-pregnant, non-knackered) female friends and thinking "if only Scorps were like X..." which is not fair and not right, but his head is in a bad place. This really doesn't give you a chance as he isn't being honest (yet?) - and does mean that the well-meant advice from the counsellor, that you should spend time apart, is backfiring big-time as he is using that time to wallow in female company that isn't you. As he isn't shagging them he has probably rationalised it as fine, but really, the things he is saying are kind of typical of the early stages of an emotional affair... I think... no expert here (thank god). If that is so, he needs to wake up and admit the truth to himself, and fast.

I really really don't think it's like that at all. He was with her for less than 2 hours; they have been friends a while and he has seen her once, it was a male friend last night.

Am I supposed to ask him?

Scorps, I'm so sorry. I think I've waded in here and been a bit blunt where others were sensibly more diplomatic. I really don't mean to make you feel worse.

I don't think he'd tell you if there were an OW right now, I think cheerfulvicky is on the money when she says that he's possibly worried about being labelled the bad guy. In my experience the horrible withdrawal of love and affection is much harder to deal with than the actuality of an OW. Now I know, I can explain so much of the behaviour. It was almost like he didn't want to be unfaithful to her by showing me any affection. His behaviour was so cold, it was horrible.

H has always had female friends, I had never ever had concerns about them before OW. Yet the behaviour you describe in your H is virtually identical to mine.

Look after yourself for the moment and the truth will out. Do you have any mutual friends who could shed some light on this? Are his female friends also friends of yours?

No, I don't think so. I don't know. Maybe she isn't the person he's having feelings for. If he is. It's just... one of the possibilities, is all. There is clearly something more in his head than he's willing to talk about at the moment, and feelings for someone else would fit that scenario quite neatly. God, I hope I haven't made you feel worse (if it's possible to make you feel worse at the moment ).

One of my very closest and loyal friends has been around them this weekend; she says her body language and behaviour for the first half hour or so of the night out was 'dodgy', but apparently he seemed uninterested in that way and it looks like no problem.

I can't cope.

Scorps, do you have access to his emails and mobile. If he has nothing to hide then he should hide nothing. You know he crossed a boundary before by kissing another woman and this is probably in the back of your mind. I convinced myself that there couldn't possibly be an OW, didn't have time, never went out etc but actually there was evidence of it all around and it was only looking back that it all became clear. This detachment is classical - my DH did that to me. Whenwillifeelnormal has written some wonderful posts about it.

He is being totally unfair on you atm by putting all of this on you at this time. You should be his be all and end all atm - you and the DC. Please get all the RL support you can and try and "detach" yourself from him a little too. Protect your emotional wellbeing, put all your reserves into the baby - he is big enough etc to look after himself.

Deep breaths. You can and will cope. You're going to need a lot of support around you whatever happens though. Will keep checking on this today.

I have just been talking to him.

He has had one female friend propostion him and he is no longer talking to her. He has also had a male propostion (DH is not the straightest bloke you've ever met....yes i knew before we got together) and this was turned away too.

The female friend (J) that i was concerned about - she is one of his few 'adult behaved' friends. She is apparently being non-biased. She describes him as her 'Gay best friend'. They have been talkign about every other day, but in just the same way my friends have with me. (odd text message, she rang him last night).

He says he has no feelings to offer anyone ATM and cannot imagine giving feelings to anyone else. He says if she propostioned him he wouldnt want to, but would want to keep her friendship.

He seemed very kind and reassuring and said thru all this he wants honesty and would tell me about another W. I believe him. (i know ehn he lies you see).

He literally has no-one else to talk to, other than Relate and me.

I intend on emotionally distancing myself from him as of today. I am going to apply for benefits today too, to feel proactive.

He said on the phone did i say those things last night because i was tired? I said no, i meant them and the only reason you are here really is for physical help. Im 38+6 today. He again said lets do xmas and relate. He has been to counselling before and seemed to really 'get' it.

counting - no i don't, this was a big reason for him leaving, me 'stalking' him. He was open with me about times/amounts of contact with J.

Yes, i should as his pregnant wife be his be all and end all, but im not. He is feeling very guilty of his timing, but i really dont think he could hold on a second longer. He said in our relate session he didnt know what to do and wishes he just waited; but it would have happened anyway.

STILL can't get my MW and i need some reassurance about having to have this baby. I think im losing more weight. I'm 39 weeks, 5'10 and just under 10stone.

DH is quite an attractive man you see, and often gets propostions. Sometimes even when we have been out together!