Our first Relate appointment is tomorrow, I'm scared.

[Scorps]

DH & I are at 'shit or bust' point in our marriage. He came back to the family home on Friday night after 12 days away; He says he doesn't love me anymore. We want to go to counselling and try, because at least if we do split we can say we did everything possible. It has all stemmed from when i mc in Feb i think. I got pg v quickly after, but totally withdrew into myself. Another woman paid him attention and when i was 15 weeks pg he kissed her. Since then i have been terrified and not let him out of my sight, have withdrawn love from him and affection, etc. He would say he loved me and i wouldnt even say anything back.

He is behaving oddly now - saying he doesn't love me, then when i had a 'revelation' this morning saying to him that maybe because of my self worth i should just quit now, i have alot to offer a man etc, he gets upset. We have had sex this weekend too but I'm not allowing that anymore - he can't reach out to me on the sofa, but tries to have sex. I told him today no more of that and he agreed. He said he wants his affection to be true when he does it, and i think thats best too.

He is not nasty; I'm 38+3 weeks with dc4 and he is caring for me and the dc. I have enough money, etc. He is a fantastic father and really wants to go to Relate, but isnt commiting himself to saying he wants our marriage to work.

I'm scared about the appointment, what we will have to talk about, what he will say that will just hurt me more, Relate isn't superglue .

What will happen, any advice, nice things to say to me? Feel like im living life blindfolded. Please dont think he's nasty hes not, its been such a hard year, 2009 has.

It's such a sad situation, but you can't let his uncertainty mess you up. It's not a reflection on you, so keep strong.

At the very least, you might be able to salvage an amicable relationship with him, even if you're no longer together as a couple. If it's what you want, I really hope you can work it through.

scorps you are a lovely mum and a lovely person, and you deserve a relationship that is good and nurturing and worthwhile. I am so sorry you are having to cope with this all right now. You know where I am on email and I'll be checking in here x

Scorps, I hope Relate works out for you in the end, even if it to gain a better understanding and a better relationship apart if nothing else.

Remember atm just one day at a time and look after yourself.

I don't feel like I want to remain in this situation. I almost feel taken advantage of, but keep reminding myself how invaluable live in help for a bit will be after dc4 is born.

He said at relate last night he doesn't want to make a rash decision he may regret; but what about me? He said he is waiting for a 'spark', something that will show him what to do.

I feel sad, angry, envious, wimpy, flat, my self esteem is nose diving daily. He is going out again tonight.

I don't know how to get through the days, how on earth we can manage 6 weeks until next session... Mybe something will be clearer then anyway? Mum keeps waning me of the euphoria surrounding a birth ad to be wary of all that emotion and what it might make him do/say.

I just keep thinking I'm only just 25; there must be a life, love, marriage out there for me that is loving and nurturing every day? Why am I letting dh do this? Why is he doing all this, he obviously doesn't quite know what he wants either as he isn't running.

He is sorry, apparently. And not being unkind, he's just nt there.

The therapist said we have lost each other and that really got in his brain. He seems to think we will be attending relate in feb.

Talk of mixed messages - going out every night doesn't sound very committed to being a father, let alone a partner... As you say, you ARE worth more than this. Whatever is going on in his head is unlikely to be about you as such, which means you can't fix it by any particular things you do/say. I still believe in treating each other kindly though, as you do have to share a house while all this works through.

Best of luck, Scorps, and glad to hear your counsellor was nice. You may well be attending Relate next year, but who knows on what basis? You'll still need to co-parent if the worst comes to the worst, and that means communicating.

The counsellor last night said it was important for us to get space at this confusing time - our flat is VERY small and their is no room to breathe. I know where/who he is going with and he won't go until dc are asleep. I don't feel up to going out so pregnant, tbh. I may go out on the weekend somewhere

I agree; i don't think it is 'me'. We are talking very well, its all quite friendly, and he says that we must talk about it. He is normally someone who bottles everything up but this time he wants to be talking and open incase it helps more.

He was honest at Relate; but some things he says are so non-commital...he doesnt want me to 'go off' him, he is waiting for a spark, he doesnt know if he can be happy with me, he doesnt want to be physical incase it misleads and he doesnt feel like it, its all so odd. Last night he said he said he doesnt feel like he loves me. The counsellor said it was a set of circumstances that have got us here. He seemed to really 'get' that we had drifted and lost each other. He seemed that Relate was really positive and keeps saying 'when' we go back, not if. I feel very much 'if'.

If i suggest him/me leaving, that seems the wrong thing too.

I said to DH on the way home, im not the ugliest, fattest woman; im well educated (to degree level), i have aspirations, dreams. I cope very well with house and dc, always have done. I am lifes quiter person iyswim; i like reading and swimming; thai boxing and eating out, not getting pissed until 4am (wel lsometimes but not alot). He says i have alot to offer too, says im loving and caring and faithful too.

Also i 'm quite concerned about my feelings towards the pregnancy and baby - i dont particularly want a baby anymore and i dont want to BF. It feels like another trap, like im 'safe' and therefore usuable to him when im at home with a baby. I resent the fact he contuined ttc with me if he wasnt certain.

I don't have any strength for labour at all. I am dreading the thought of each day, knowing i may have to have a baby that day. I'm 38+5 today.

Well, whatever happens, I think seeing Relate will be good for you. Even after only this once, with, as you say, not many revelations, you already sound a bit stronger. You are beautiful, intelligent and funny - just keep repeating these things to yourself.

Btw, I don't agree at all with your (d)h going out at this time, small flat or not, but hey, if that helps you sort out your feelings, then it's for the better I guess.

Keep strong, but if you feel like just unpacking a bit and getting things out of your system, we're here to listen. You are such a good person and mom, always remember that. Just look at your children - lovely, happy, and pat yourself on the back. You have so much to be proud of. You just need to look after yourself, and love and appreciate yourself.

And you'll be fine during labour - you've dealt with so many hard things in your life already, I suspect you're stronger than you realise.

I have left a message for the MW to ring me, she knows the situation. I have laso emailed Relate saying i just don't know how to go 6 weeks. I can't even do 6 hours at the moment.

I feel so lost, so unloved, so alone. I don't want him to go out either but he is unsure of the relationship, is gettign space and that may help. Believe me, he is not being nasty, just honest and truthful.

Sometimes i feel strong enough to ask him to go; righ this minute i want to ring him and screech at him that i love him, stop being a sod and just be my husband.

He said in Relate last night, maybe he just needs someone to 'kick me up the arse and tell me im being a silly sod'.

Scorps have you talked to your midwife about everything. I am worried that you are a prime candidate for PND and maybe the wheels should be set in motion now to prevent that. TBH you sound very depressed now and maybe that needs to be discussed with your GP/midwife and medication started (or lined up) for after the birth.

All this stuff going on within your marriage leads to depression/anxiety whatever the outcome. DH and me are both suffering a bit atm and we have/should have a good outcome. His GP actually said it is very common with all the trauma etc over the last months for us to feel like this. It is extremely hard with small DC (I have 4DSs) to cope with your/his feelings and look after the children etc. Your situation sounds like ours in that it is a set of extremely stressful circumstances although I have nearly 20 years on you but have been in the relationship for a similar period. Apparently it is no longer a 7 year itch but a 10/11 year itch.

You are both very young and have time to sort yourselves out. If it means seperating for a while (with him giving you lots of help) to sort yourselves out then let it be. It was during seperation that my DH realised what he really wanted from life. And sometimes it needs someone to spell it out to then as well (along the lines of "What the hell are you thinking ? You have a DW and 4DC). I personally don't think enough people stand up for marriage.

My DH actually had a friend who actually said to him "I don't care whats going on between you two but you have 4DC and you sort it out - family is all that matters." That really shocked my DH, that someone didn't beat about the bush and came out said that you have to the right thing. I think your DH knows he should really do the right thing but something is stopping. Has anyone in RL had a good talk to him ?

Thinking of you - nothing in life is easy (or I haven't found it to be).

Obviously x-posted there

I have had very bad PND with dc2; I am going to ask the MW today for a prescription.

My Dad has told him things like that; DH said it confused him and he felt manipulated. The counsellor last night said we both come across as family being a joint interest. DH is a fabulous father, to all of the dc.

DH is very confused; he has lost alot of weight, i feel he may possibly be depressed too. I am wondering if a clean cut break would do any good, but with the baby so close it doesnt feel viable.

I have just read through all the emails he has sent me they all say he loves me, im sexy, he misses me, doesnt want to be without me. Only dated back to August.

The friend dh is oging out with tonight has just been kicked out by his mrs - they have 4dc too. Maybe he will see what could happen to him... i keep thinking of my life, in which i cant love him, touch him, make love to him.

Thats another thing too - i really miss sex. We always have had an active sex life, and i still find him very attractive, but i just cant go there.

He said to me the other day whilst crying 'I didn't marry you to end up treating you like this'

The counsellor said we have lost each other in different bubbles. So true.

I miss him so badly. He must think something of me to be here, doing this?

Backing up the getting help. It does sound as though Relate might help but it is impossible for anyone in your situation not to feel down right now (exhausted too I bet). You are clearly wise enough to see trouble ahead in terms of PND etc so I am sure that if you can line up support, medication, counselling etc you will be OK. BUT it so important you do it now before the post baby exhaustion and apathy sets in if you possibly can.

What is your GP like, can you get help via surgery. Would surestart give you some practical help with the children over first few weeks?

Keep going - you are doing all the right things, it is just crap isn't it?

GP is fantastic, though what shall i ask for/say?

I am exhausted, i have no strength apart from surviving. I have NO clue how im supposed to labour. How can i even birth with him there, knowing he doesnt love me or may not ever make love to me again, so he is seeing my bits in all their glory or trying to BF and getting my breasts out alot. I feel so vulnerable.

I think sometimes you have to take the pressure of yourselves, not to expect too much from eachother. To just be kind and helpful to each other etc. Maybe you should ask him not to go out tonight - be honest, totally honest with him. Just say I would really appreciate it if you didn't go out tonight, I'm feeling very low and would appreciate your company.

My DH used to come round and stay when I was stressed etc (after he left OW and was at his mums). Our therapist thought it was a positive thing for us to be seperated for a while and actually thought he moved back too soon (but he and I felt it wasn't fair that I was coping with the DC on my own most of the time). I found our separation very hard to deal with but I kept telling myself that it was for the greater good IYSWIM. And if we go on to be married for 30+ years, what is a 3 month seperation ? Just a small amount of time.

I think we have to sometimes step back and Let it be. I listened to that Beatles song when I was in a state just to remind myself to just let go. Concentrate on the baby now and Christmas and let the relationship and the marriage be for time. Let him do what he feels he must but he should still be considerate to you.

thankyou that makes so much sense. DH even said himself if this is the worst part of our 50 year marriage (possible!) then we have done well.

I want him to have space, see friends. He has no other 'adult' support; his parents aren't about for him really. Most of his friends are grown up iyswim, they wont say 'ditch her' etc. He is not piss taking with it. Part of our problems have stemmed from me suffocating him and i want to show i can be 'better'. He wont get drunk, he knows baby is imminent. He asked permission to go out too. He is caring, yes indeed. I bought a new book today and will read when he is out.

Scorp, tell your GP exactly what you're telling us. I'm sure she'll know what to do / prescribe. I think it's really good that you e-mailed Relate, hoping they'll at least speak to you on keep in contact, even if not officially marriage counseling yet.

And yes, you know what, I do think in a way your dh loves you, although not sure if the marriage way, that only he will be able to sort out for himself. If he didn't, he wouldn't have continued being "nice" throughout this. I think he's wrong, obv, I think he's confused etc, but I think this is all in him, I don't think it's a reflection on you at all.

Wish I knew what to say. Please call your GP - do the things that you can control, the rest will be there anyway, but this might help you along the way.

I'm so tired, the house is full of the dc who all want things, i just want a bath and to go to bed.

i dont want a baby and no-one is listening to me about that

Yangymac is the other Annie of course - I'm still here

I'm not surprised you don't feel up to looking after a new baby with all this going on. Have you told the midwife? Of course they can't take it away right now, and when it arrives you won't want them to because it will be a real person then, not just a thing that's going to happen to you. But maybe they can offer some practical support.

Scorps, what plans have you made for after the baby is born ie immediately after the birth and when you go home. Are you going to have to rely on him or are extended family going to be involved ?