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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Our first Relate appointment is tomorrow, I'm scared.

979 replies

Scorps · 14/12/2009 10:12

DH & I are at 'shit or bust' point in our marriage. He came back to the family home on Friday night after 12 days away; He says he doesn't love me anymore. We want to go to counselling and try, because at least if we do split we can say we did everything possible. It has all stemmed from when i mc in Feb i think. I got pg v quickly after, but totally withdrew into myself. Another woman paid him attention and when i was 15 weeks pg he kissed her. Since then i have been terrified and not let him out of my sight, have withdrawn love from him and affection, etc. He would say he loved me and i wouldnt even say anything back.

He is behaving oddly now - saying he doesn't love me, then when i had a 'revelation' this morning saying to him that maybe because of my self worth i should just quit now, i have alot to offer a man etc, he gets upset. We have had sex this weekend too but I'm not allowing that anymore - he can't reach out to me on the sofa, but tries to have sex. I told him today no more of that and he agreed. He said he wants his affection to be true when he does it, and i think thats best too.

He is not nasty; I'm 38+3 weeks with dc4 and he is caring for me and the dc. I have enough money, etc. He is a fantastic father and really wants to go to Relate, but isnt commiting himself to saying he wants our marriage to work.

I'm scared about the appointment, what we will have to talk about, what he will say that will just hurt me more, Relate isn't superglue .

What will happen, any advice, nice things to say to me? Feel like im living life blindfolded. Please dont think he's nasty hes not, its been such a hard year, 2009 has.

OP posts:
tiredoftherain · 17/12/2009 15:05

Oh goodness, more parallels with my situation. ds is affected by ASD too, but it seems incredibly mild thankfully. I actually came to the conclusion that H has hints of ASD traits himself which have affected his ability to communicate in a mature, adult manner. A lot of this has been like dealing with a child, and I do wonder if he is very mildly affected (as is ds) Could this also be the case with your dh I wonder??

I'm so sorry for you, you sound amazingly strong (even if you don't think you do) and I know you will come through this. Keep strong.

countingto10 · 17/12/2009 15:21

Yep another one here with 2 DSs with ASD. DH admitted in therapy that he struggled to cope with the diagnosis of DS3 (DS1 is not his biological son). Whilst I had done my grieving with DS1 and took DS3's diagnosis in a "ce la vie" manner, he internalised it IYSWIM.

It is hard, unless you have had experience of it first hand, you cannot understand the stresses and strains it puts on a family.

Scorps, dare I mention SS. They arranged a family aide worker for me after DS4 was born to come in a help with the DC. DS3 was beginning show quite overt signs of ASD and social worker thought I could do with a hand.

Scorps · 17/12/2009 16:03

tired - DH & I wonder if I have Aspergers, or at least i have alot of the traits of it.

ds1 is not DHs biological child, but DH has been with me since he was 11 months old.

I need some strength to cope with the evening tonight. He doesn't seem very strong today either, judging by his texts earlier.

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Scorps · 17/12/2009 16:40

At Relate, DH said he drove past every night checking the house. He was staying 8 miles away, works 20 miles away.

Still need strength for tonight. I just want a shower and to watch telly/read, not discuss.

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mrsdisorganised · 17/12/2009 17:57

I'm sad for you Scorps and hope you get through it.

I have been in the should we split situation, we did for 7 months I messed up big time, i was 25 at the time with 3 dc's and we'd been together since we were 15. There were alot of factors involved with the break up, but we took a gamble and went away for a month as a family with no distractions, family interference,tv, work etc (weren't back 'together' as such) we came back after lots of talking, very much together 5 years on, (and 2 more dc's later) and I know we're so much stronger now, but have had to 'work' at it, time for us etc.

What I'm trying to say is that if you think it's worth saving and you can forgive, you will make it work and 'things can only get better!' Take care of you and bump especially just now.

Scorps · 17/12/2009 19:53

Had another chat tonight. He is almost certain he will be leaving. Says he wants to be around for pregnancy an baby. Wants tonattend relate on 5th jan cos by then he thinks if he still feels the same And has had no spark he will know and relate can offer their recommendation. I think and know this is it. I wish so much I was stronger and asked him to go now.

I have to get away from him in my head. I am going to be divorced this coming year.

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tiredoftherain · 17/12/2009 20:17

Oh dear. I'm so very sorry. I do think there's a lot more to it than he's saying, so please please don't think it's a rejection of you.

Maybe try and avoid any more conversations today, they may only upset you further.

Scorps · 18/12/2009 09:14

Don't know what I'm supposed to do. I will be alone in a few weeks with 4 very small children, on benefits, no one to love me or listen to me at the end of each day. No life, no sex life, nothing.

He has already grieved us; I have to grieve and get on with such a big family, one of whom will be only weeks old. I can't even drive.

I was such a believer in marriage vows and the notion that u work thru things. But he is clear that he has no feelings for me beyond my welfare iyswim.

I really do know this is it; it's not a seperation or anything. God how will I manage when I know he's seeing someone?

I just don't know what to do - he's gone.

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countingto10 · 18/12/2009 09:38

Scorps I'm so sorry. FWIW my DH didn't have a spark or thunderbolt that "I fallen back madly in love with Counting". Love evolves over time as you know. It turns into a "grown up" love. Does he still say he loves you as the mother of his DC ?

Here another "handout" that Relate gave my DH, it's about the Latin way of describing love. I think you see from the words what the therapist was trying to tell my DH (she didn't give me any of these handouts ).

"In Latin there are two words describing love. They distinguish the two profoundly different ways of experiencing love. Eros refers to passionate love; Agape describes the stable and committed relationship. When we look for different kinds of love in one relationship with one person it leads us into a dilemma as the two cannot be experienced at the same time.

Eros : Real love is an all-consuming, desperate yearning for the beloved, who is perceived as different, mysterious, and elusive. The depth of love is measured by the intensity of obsession with the loved one. There is little time or attention for other interests or pursuits, because so much energy is focused on recalling past encounters or imagining future ones. Often, great obstacles must be overcome, and thus there is an element of suffering in true love. Another indication of the depth of love is the willingness to endure pain and hardship for the sake of the relationship. Associated with real love are feelings of excitement, rapture, drama, anxiety, tension, mystery and yearning.

Agape : Real love is a partnership to which two caring people are deeply committed. These people share many basic values, interests and goals and tolerate good-naturedly their individual differences. The depth of love is measured by the mutual trust and respect they feel toward each other. Their relationship allows each to be more fully expressive, creative and productive in the world. There is much joy in shared experiences both past and present, as well as those that are anticipated. Each views the other as his/her dearest and most cherished friend. Another measure of the depth of love is the willingness to honestly at oneself in order to promote the growth of the relationship and the deepening of intimacy. Associated with real love are feelings of serenity, security, devotion, understanding, companionship, mutual support and comfort."

Scorps, I think my DH needed to see this written down. These were given out to him in his individual session.

I think your H has some sort of agenda which will probably become clear in time. And again FWIW, my DH went to Relate in the beginning not thinking we had a relationship to salvage, a bit like your H, doing what he thought was right for the DC. You need a "no nonsense" therapist who will tell him as it is. Ours was quite "sharp" with us on a number of occasions.

The fact that they are bending their rules for you, makes me think they see some sort of hope if they can get to both of you quick enough. Our therapist actually said she didn't know what made her "queue jump" us, just that she saw something.

There is always hope, remember that. And you have a new life coming soon, that makes people reassess things etc.

Saying a prayer for you (I had a lot of people praying for me and DH).

IfYoureHappyAndYouKnowIt · 18/12/2009 09:46

I know it feels awful. But I also know that if he is not there you will be free of the daily worries and anxiety you are feeling. So, although you will be hellishly busy and scarred and it won't be easy, in your head there will be some relief there and that will help.

I know this may sound like an awful comparison but it helped me so I hope it will help you. I once knew a couple where I was amazed that the husband coped so well just after his wife died. I said he was amazing at the funeral and he told me that he was done with grieving, that he had gone through so much whilst his wife was ill that he now had more closure now it was over. I know it's different but I felt the same way once my husband left - he had been such a sh** over the months prior to leaving that I just felt a blessed relief tbh.

Despite what I've just said though, remember, if he does go you'll both have some space and who knows, in the long term that may in itself help your relationship, however things work out.

mrsdisorganised · 18/12/2009 09:49

Fantastic post Counting, completely agree. Scorps, I will also pray for you, alot of good can come of it.x

Lemonylemon · 18/12/2009 09:52

Scorps Just one breath at a time. Just one hour at a time. You will get through this. Only think ahead in terms of practicalities. I did mention yesterday about rallying all the help you can. I mentioned Homestart/Surestart (but I'm not sure which is which). Ask your friends/relatives to come and stay on a rota basis.

I know the newborn days are really hard (especially the nights) on your own. You must get some support. Can you start by speaking to your HV/midwife/GP?

Now the time has come to start the doing and ignore the emotional bit for the time being (very, very hard, I know). I'm not being harsh, please don't think that. I come from the situation where I was widowed while pregnant and had to cope alone with a newborn and 10 year old. Not as difficult as your situation, hence I could cope on my own. But you will have 4 DCs and you will need lots of support.

Scorps · 18/12/2009 10:17

Thanks

Counting yes he does love me as the mother of the dc. hE Says im loving, loyal, faithful, a nice person, caring. He still maintains he likes me and has no ill feelings of me. He seems very clear that he has no other feelings about me. I do know that last night he wanted sex but didn't ask. He felt the baby in bed and started squeezing my hip, i could feel him (iyswim) but i made a point of doing nothing (god knows i would love to, lol).

I don't think this is a seperation time, i think this is 'it'.

I read the definitions and it makes sense to me; but in his mind i don't think it will. He has always seemed to concentrate on the first lot of love described, whilst i aspire to and feel/felt the second kind.

After our chat last night he went very quiet. I started talkign baout practicalities with him (money, time, possessions) and he was very quiet indeed after, then he started feeling the baby etc. He feels incredibly guilty about the dc, he adores them but i know there is nothing there for me.

I don't think he has another agenda; I am very sure there is no-one else right now, but wouldnt be suprised if there will be soon after he goes.

I keep thinking how shitty my life is going to be now - no money, constant responsibility, no-one to care for me at the end of a bad day, no sex life. I will fall in a pit when i know he has a GF.

He seemed very certain about leaving; just said he wanted to go to relate so he has tried, maybe there will be a revelation in the appt (what in one hour???!!), i think its maybe so he can say to himself 'well i did try relate' and also that if the therapist says its ok to leave, that it is OK iyswim, when its not, its shitty and its ruining my life.

I got married for love, for life, for the shit and the best.

OP posts:
Scorps · 18/12/2009 10:20

what if we go to relate on the 5th and he wants to go again? Stay or go, what?

I feel so lost.

MW is ringing me back soon

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Scorps · 18/12/2009 11:07

I keep thinking as well yes things have been rough for a few months, but we are married and why isnt that enough to try and work through? He must really not love me. Feels so weird, he has always loved me iyswim i never thought that would go.

I just don't believe the situation im in.

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countingto10 · 18/12/2009 11:19

You see Scorps, this is what my DH kept saying to me (during his affair and after he had left me for her) that he will always love me as the mother of his DC. So he does love you, he has admitted that, but is expecting his love for you to be the same as when you first met but as my last post says, you cannot experience both kinds of love at the same time in the same relationship. Relate will explore all of this stuff and it really is whether he is prepared to put in the effort and set all "other things" aside to work on things with you, to keep an open mind etc.

You are prepared to do this but, from what you are saying, he is not. Maybe you can get him to agree not to make any life changing decisions until you have been to Relate for a number of sessions (they normally say about 6 sessions but in our case we had weekly sessions over a period of 4 months (that's how bad (or good ?)we were)).

Don't forget Scorps, his modelling of relationships is from a father who walked out on his mother and I'm sure Relate will deal with that as well but he has to be willing to explore all these things.

Show him these posts if it helps. We are not flaming him here, and he already knows how you feel.

Scorps · 18/12/2009 11:36

He loves me as the mother of the dc but after that, i think there is nothing.

We haven't really said what will happen after 5th jan; i vaguely remember him saying maybe that is a point enough to know what to do, i dont know. Maybe the counsellor will have a recommendation? I don't think 2 sessions will be enough to decide anything TBH but then i keep thinking if he doesnt love me then why doesnt he just go? I think its because the baby is imminent. I think by then if he is still set on not loving me then there is no hope. He's not the sort of man to go off for a few months seperation and then come back. He does seem rather certain this is it, and i dont know WTF im supposed to do.

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countingto10 · 18/12/2009 11:55

Scorps, you know what you will do if he decides to go, you will get on with your life. And the thing is, what he didn't sort out properly within your relationship, didn't change etc, will follow him into any future relationships and he and some other woman will be in the position you are in now. Some people just don't get it. This is another thing our therapist said to us, our problems just follow us into future relationships if we don't address them.

The two things I have taken from everything that has happen to me this year (like you I have faced the future as a single mum with 4DCs (2 with ASD), is that I will not let my DH treat me like that again and I will cope on my own if I have to. In a way, I have detached myself from my DH, so that he is not the be all and end all in my life. I will cope if he decides to leave again and he knows that. I will not collapse and crumple the way I did this year. Like you I lost so much weight, went down to 6.5 stone, the anxiety was crippling to me.

You are a strong woman and you will find the strength and if he is not man enough to accept his responsibilities, to do the right thing, then so be it. You will survive and you will have a wonderful life with your wonderful children.

You have age on your side, you have had a good education, from your photo you are very attractive, there are so many positives and do not allow your H to bring you down.

BTW even if he doesn't want to continue with Relate after the 5th, carry on on your own, it will help you deal and cope with things.

Scorps · 18/12/2009 15:33

Not doing well. Gp at 5. Talk of hving to be an inpatient in hospital.

He is coming home to take me gp. Said he's sorry.

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tiredoftherain · 18/12/2009 15:44

Scorps, if you get chance can you change your settings so I can CAT you please? May be able to help with something.

MisSalToeKisses · 18/12/2009 17:52

Scorp. Wish I was nearer just to be with you now. Will keep checking, hope you can update, but if not, am thinking of you. xxx

Scorps · 19/12/2009 09:34

Gp won't give me meds but a CPN Is coming out on Monday and I will have a homestart person.

He is physically looking after me very well but I have to face up to him going.

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countingto10 · 19/12/2009 11:46

It's good that something practical is being planned but I am really struggling to understand how a man who is professing to love you(even only as the mother of his DC) can just look on whilst you are struggling like this and about to give birth to his next DC. This is why I feel there is something else going on here. I was in a right state when my DH upped and left, he ended up having to stay an extra week because I was on Diazepam and had to sleep for 8 hours without interruption and DS4 was still waking in the night.

I asked him how he could stand by and watch all this, seeing me like that and still leave me to cope with 4DC and he told me the OW told him I was playing a "good game", playing him like a fiddle and me and the DC would be fine, I would get over it. He chose to believe her rather than what was in front of his eyes eg DS4 holding onto his leg begging him to stay forever etc . The OW told him it was all a game to make him stay with me. He knew me and the DC were in a right old state (9yr & 16yr old in tears because he had left) but the pull of the OW was far greater.

I have discussed with my DH and he also agrees that it sounds like there is someone waiting in the wings (even if it is not a full blown affair). My DH justified his affair by leaving me ie if he left he would not be having an affair and OW was putting him under intolerable pressure to leave (what kind of woman encourages a man to leave his DW and 4DC ?)

Look after yourself Scorps, accept all the help that is offered (even if social services are mentioned (they supplied me with a family aid worker)) and keep going to Relate even if he chooses not too. You have to protect yourself here.

VirginPeachyMotherOfSpod · 19/12/2009 12:22

Scorps

I wish I had magic words to make it all better. I think you are right that there will be a GF very soon,he just seems that type-serial monogamy seems more his style tbh.

You know where I am on facebook if there's anything at all I can help with, if you want I willlet you have my new mob number for if things get toolow.

you will be OK, you will. You'reawonderfulMum, fun and stunning, you willnot be alone for ever and your worst fears that way will not happen

Scorps · 19/12/2009 16:22

He isn't coping well with me in this state at all, he feels very bad and guilty and horrid.

Have been at my mums today; she said his actions are of someone who loves. He said again last might he loves me as a person. Mum seems to think it's odd he wants relate so much; he's very confused ithink.

I really don't think there is anyone waiting; and I know him iyswim.

I'm willing to work on this; do u think relate will see how confused he is and recommend no decision? What will happen next session?

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