Meet the Other Phone. Flexible and made to last.

Meet the Other Phone.
Flexible and made to last.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

How long will it take for the 'no contact rule' to work with OM?

133 replies

Popzie · 02/12/2009 20:18

OM and me have decided on the 'no contact' rule in order to get our heads around what the fuck we are actually playing at. It's been a week. Can't stop thinking of him.

If you're single you can make changes and move on, but how do you move on from a relationship/affair when you are fimly embedded into family life?

I need strategies. Am jogging, getting pissed and throwing self into work. What else can I do to get over what is essentially an upsetting breakup? I need a quick fix.

OP posts:
veryconfusedandupset · 08/12/2009 13:41

WWIFN - I love my DH very much - after many years tgether I still feeel what is almost a warm glow when we are close, his smell is like catnip to me. He is not dissatisfied with me, far from it. He admits that he has taken me for granted because he sees me as mature and competent, not because he doesn't care. He is a bit "Spock like" in his attitude to life, everything is determined by logic. He sees the traditional courtship gestures as un necessary in many respects and finds it hard to understand how they make women happy. Because for many years I held down a demanding job, did most of the extra stuff with the children and more or less ran the household and sat on committees and managed to look pretty good too he just sort of left me to get on with it, not really realising how I needed a bit of recognition and support. He throws himself into all his hobbies and work so much because he always feels that he only just reaches the mark ( which isn't true - he has a brilliant brain and lots of high level qualifications)

I'm trying to show him life will be better if he protects and nurtures our relationship as a central thing, and goes out from this in a postition of strength to the rest of his life, rather than tackling all the outside stuff to a very high level and thinking that after 25 years the domestic/relationship side of things can take care of itself.

If I really thought my husband was dissatisfied with me I'd either change ( he would like me to be thinner, so I'm on a diet)or leave.

As for X's wife - don't have any real views there - as neither of them can leave their house without driving or walking past mine I see both of them nearly every day. My comments were really that despite all the dreadful things he said about her she seems to bear the brunt of supporting their home and family and you get the impression he does nothing outside his paid work, which is a bit tough on her. As he has now developed serious ill health in the last month things are not that rosy for either of them.

WhenwillIfeelnormal · 08/12/2009 14:30

VCAU, I understand what you are saying, but it still sounds like the repair of your relationship is based on a one-sided list of requests from you for changed behaviour on his part. Did he put forward any requests of you, I wonder?

When someone has an affair, they often think they are not "getting enough" of something - which might be true and certainly seems to be the case with you. But it is often the case that they were also not "giving enough" - and the betrayed partner feels that very much indeed. At the moment, your H doesn't have this context to work from, because he doesn't know you had an affair, but unless he has told you that he has absolutely no dissatisfactions of his own, I would beware of complacency.

One of the things I am most grateful for in my revitalised marriage is that we were able to address the things we were both not getting - and giving. If only one of us had changed, it wouldn't have worked.

Perhaps that's why you feel this was just an error and cannot feel guilt - there's a sense from you that your husband had this coming to him and he had only himself to blame - a sense that you were "entitled" to an affair?

This doesn't address your behaviour though.

Try if you can to reverse this. Imagine a man posted on here that he'd had an affair because his wife wasn't meeting his needs. That the affair partner then finished with him and he had spent months grieving her loss. That he had devised spreadsheets comparing the relative merits of the two women. That he had no intention of coming clean to his wife but instead, had given her a long list of ways she should improve so that she could keep him. What do you think posters would be telling him about the changes he should be making to his own behaviour?

AnyFuckerForAMincePie · 08/12/2009 14:39

touche

ooh, thats gotta hurt....

veryconfusedandupset · 08/12/2009 15:05

WWIFN I suppose that is about right - I am a competent and reasonably sensible person. I try to base my decisions in life on objective criteria. I have my faults, I am bossy ( which DH doesn't mind) and fat ( which he does, so I'm working on that) I'm quite amenable to reasonable suggestions, but the bottom line is whilst I will change and accommodate DH's wishes if he expresses them, I expect to be treated properly at home, and if that is low on his priority list ( which in reality it is not, really just crossed wires) I will leave and find someone else. We all weigh up cost rewards and maybe it is just a sign of my efficiency (I'm very good at my job) that I do the financial - not the emotional- side of this on a spreadsheet and not in my head.

I don't think I'm right about everything, I'm just an ordinary person, muddling through and now have just about solved my problems. I decided in September not to make any big decisions about my life until the end of April, and I'm already as certain as I can be that by then I'll have a happier and more fulfilling marriage, and won't need to look outside again.

I have a wealth of experience as a wife and a mother, charity trustee, and in two professional sectors. I have brought two teenagers through the educational system with
no difficulties and on into adult and nearly adult life my oldest son is now at Oxbridge. My extended family love me and I really don't see how you as a stranger can seek to impose your views of what I should and should not be feeling.

I just get sick and tired of the same 2 or 3 MNs dictating to all and sundry who admit affairs that the only way to salvation is confession - because it worked for them. I concede that it worked for you, but know it wouldn't work for me - and believe individual choices must be made. so I suspect we will continue to cross swords on threads when this dilema arises, but you will notice that I never seek to say you were wrong in relation to your particular circumstances, though you feel very free it seems to criticise me on a personal basis.

Malificence · 08/12/2009 15:35

VCAU, your posts smack very highly of a sense of "entitlement" - as long as you continue to lie to your husband, it's an unequal, unbalanced relationship where you have the upper hand by default and deceit.

You could have worked on your marriage together with your husband without resorting to a silly affair with a very suspect man - your original thread read like a comedy script with all his strange sexual antics. You didn't need a ridiculous charade like that to be able to come to the conclusions you have reached here.

You say you love your husband - yes? loved him so much you were carrying on with a git of a man and had a series of "almost" sexual encounters, that's not love, it's utter contempt.

Doesn't he deserve to make a decision about your joint futures with the full facts of what you've done to "preserve" your marriage?
Have you so little respect for him that you feel you are entitled to make that decision alone?

It amazes and saddens me that people can actually successfully convince themselves that lying to the most important person in their life is in any way justifiable.

It's not, ever.

veryconfusedandupset · 08/12/2009 15:40

Help!! I'm going back to AIBU - they're nicer over there. Popzie - this is what happens when you don't toe the doormat line.

Malificence · 08/12/2009 15:41

And why has your oh, so successful life got any bearing on your situation now?

It still belongs on the Jeremy Vile show - yes, it's that sordid.

Mincepiedermama · 08/12/2009 15:51

My dh had a fling and concealed it from me for two years. He thought if he never told it would be OK. It wasn't. There was a festering sore in the middle of our relationship, a gap in our trust, a feeling from me that something wasn't right.

It was a really horrible. He had a great big lake of venus grow on his lip. I developed pnuemonia. All sorts of horrible things happen which both of us know were somehow related to the festering knot inside.

It wasn't until he finally came clean and told me everything that we were both able to make sense of our feelings and really truly start to save then heal our relationship.

Tell him.

Malificence · 08/12/2009 15:56

No, this is what happens when you toe the
" I'm a selfish, self righteous and pompous idiot" line.

Who is saying you have to be a doormat to have a good marriage, No one as far as I can see?

I suppose if you're prepared to get into an affair, you're not that interested in honesty and respect to begin with.

veryconfusedandupset · 08/12/2009 15:56

I don't think I have ever described myself as "sucessful" I just have a nicely rounded life. My children turned out OK, I've helped and supported both of them to be sucessful that previous generations in my family could not attain. I give up my spare time to help others who are victimised by society - I'm even kind to animals! You are just so horribly nasty to me when I share what has happened to me - albeit because I went down that path. I'm just a normal sort of person. It is no good you just being rude and insulting to me, because I know that you are not right about this, for me ( as I've said before, what works for you is your business). I'm more than up for informed and constructive debate on these issues, but abuse is just not on.

Mincepiedermama · 08/12/2009 16:41

Thanks for the links whenwillifeelnormal. Fantastic. Will force dh to read them too.

I particularly like the bit about continuing secrecy shows a willingness to sacrifice closeness.

I have to tell you, it's very unfair on the cheated-on partner because they are denied the chance to work out properly what might be wrong and often blame themselves and torture themselves looking for answers. I did.

WhenwillIfeelnormal · 08/12/2009 17:16

Erm, think Malficence was reacting to the wholly irrelevant "I have a son at Oxbridge" line VCAU....

I didn't read much of your summer thread VCAU. I remember people's aghast reactions to it - and in conciliation, it just goes to show how less confused and upset you are now, because your posts are much clearer (and have paragraphs!)

I sort of assume that if we post our experiences on Mumsnet, we want people to comment on them. No doubt we will always cross swords about honesty, I agree.

Minced Pie - glad you found the links helpful. I hope your relationship is back on track now.

alliscalm · 08/12/2009 17:27

I am new to this but have read all the posts. With regards to telling all, surely you have to balance it out in the end. If Popzie told her DH now, what would be the point? She's trying to end the relationship, all it would do is cause heartache and grief to him and prolong the process. Sometimes people spill secrets because it makes them feel better, not anyone else.

And WWIFN, I read the articles. I'm afraid the second one lost me when it likened your DCs knowing about an affair and colluding with it to incest.

butterballs · 08/12/2009 20:03

My opinion is that everyone is over-reacting. I have never suggested people should "enjoy themselves whatever the consequences". What rubbish - I would imagine that for most women (not so much men) affairs are a complete and utter nightmare. Can't think of anything more stressful, hideous, ghastly etc.

Every single person weighs up the consequences of actions before carrying out the action - they alone are responsible for the consequences.

I am simply suggesting that getting divorced is not necessarily any better than being unfaithful. Perhaps it is time to stop elevating fidelity to the level of sainthood?
If you have children, their security and happiness, in my opinion, should be the most important thing - that might mean overlooking an infidelity - not the end of the world, in my opinion.

Still think people are over-dramatic about infidelity and affairs - they are a part of life, just accept it - they will never go away however much anyone might wish they would not. Have a look at illicit encounters - there are so many people on there - not saying it is right, but it is a fact.

I am not even that interested in whether people are having affairs or not - think it's a case of "get over yourself" and don't become a slave to the drama.

AnyFuckerForAMincePie · 08/12/2009 20:09

butterballs, have you had a personality transplant or were you under the influence of summat the last time you posted here ?

you make measured points here, why were you so weird last time ?

Mincepiedermama · 08/12/2009 20:31

Good post butterball. I can forgive my dh's infidelity pretty easily, but the fact that he lied to me for two years about it is much harder to get over. After all, it makes a mockery of the trust we shared and so why should I take anything seriously that he says ever again?

This is what we are having to work really hard on and not the original misdemeanor which was far more understandable.

This is why I advocate honesty. It's the lies and not the infidelity which destroy relationships.

Malificence · 08/12/2009 20:39

I'm afraid infidelity is the end of the world in my book BB, along with the majority of people I imagine.
Fidelity goes hand in hand with respect and trust - that's pretty much what marriage is all about.

If you have security and a happy life, why would anyone risk that for an affair - it's the person who is cheating who is jeapordising the happiness and security of their children after all, not the wronged partner.

Affairs aren't part of my life thank you, plenty of people manage not to stoop to the level of the gutter that is lying and cheating.

If infidelity doesn't bother you that's fine but to suggest that the majority of people who feel that it's wrong are foolish, that's not at all helpful.

A person can't have much self respect if they are willing to be humiliated and disrespected by accepting that their partner will cheat on them.

If people treated their partners in the
way they would like to be treated themselves then affairs would cease to happen.

It takes free will and a concious decision to cheat, it doesn't "just happen", people who say that are kidding themselves big time.

Malificence · 08/12/2009 20:51

Mincepiedermama - so if your DH had come clean right away and said he'd had sex with someone, you'd have forgiven him there and then?

In what way was his infidelity "understandable"? That sounds a little like you think it was in some way, your fault.

To me, an act of infidelity is just as much a lie as the secrecy that normally follows it - a person who cheats is denying the very existence of their partner, the lies that follow are just compounding the original lie.

Mincepiedermama · 08/12/2009 21:09

Mal to me the infidelity was a weak moment. It was brief. The urge for sexual gratification is powerful, I think especially for men, and so these things happen.

I'm not saying I'd forgive him straight away. Just that when I look back I know that what really, really, really hurt and dented our marriage and caused the lasting pain and damage to our intimacy with one another was the lying and not the quick shag.

Obviously the quick shag(s) were not desirable and did cause me pain, but not so much pain that I wanted to chuck in 20 years of marriage and four kids.

ahundredtimes · 09/12/2009 10:15

VUAC points are interesting to read.

What comes through loud and clear though, is that you haven't said to your dh 'I feel really vulnerable' - you talk from a position from absolute strength, which of course sounds defensive, and also like a justification for what you did. That's okay, but it honestly doesn't sound truthful. You want to justify in your head the OM because you like him so much - fair enough - but it's only half of the picture, really. It doesn't sound like you give your dh any kind of strength at all - it's all what he doesn't do. How he made you feel, what happened as a result.

There's no balance. And it also means you maintain a position of strength by keeping the secret from him - he won't understand, he won't get it, only I understand and can deal with this. It's all one-sided. I can SEE the other side of the picture - and I don't even know you! - why not let it in?

It's up to you whether you tell him - but I do think you'll colour in the other half of the picture if you change the way you talk, 'I know I seem really together, but actually I feel really vulnerable' rather than 'Right, Listen up. You've got to give me more attention'.

I don't agree with Mal's absolute position. It isn't really a black and white thing. And I agree with bb - it does happen, they are a product of human nature and behaviour.

So in the end, you can only be responsible for yourself, but isn't it better to take on that responsibility truthfully and honestly? Rather than sitting in the half-shade?

butterballs · 09/12/2009 10:39

Mal - you have very strong views on this subject which are completely legitimate. Irrespective of your strong feelings about this - infidelity IS a part of some people's lives and there are all sorts of ways that people cope with it. Chucking in a good marriage where children are involved because the other half has followed their sexual impulses/need for ego massage etc is not necessarily a sensible strategy - however much that might be the immediate reaction.

I personally know of people who have chucked in marriages over infidelity and some of them now regret it and wished they had worked through things to a point of greater understanding. Just one way of looking at things. I do understand where you are coming from - but sometimes things are not so black and white in this world.

I think that some people (men especially at the risk of over-generalising) are able to compartmentalise to the extent where they can maintain more than one relationship without undue guilt. Perhaps this is better than running off with the mistress leaving a family in tatters.

Also, the expression: a man who marries his mistress creates a job vacancy, springs to mind.

In an ideal world, everyone would get married and life happily ever after. Real life can sometimes be a bit more complex.

HappyWoman · 09/12/2009 15:06

Mal - i too think you see it as too black and white.

I used to think infidelity was the end of the world too - but i have survived it and i am actually a stronger person for it. Not because i have changed my view on it but because i made a huge effort to understand it from many points of view.

Of course my h was a complete bastard at that time - but it really does not help anyone to move forward if we do not try to learn from it - for a start it would have been so destructive for the dc for my h to be held up as the worst father and husband of all time.

I am glad you know your limits and boundaries - that is a positive thing - but can also appear very scary - i would not like to open up and be honest about some of my inner thoughts if i was frightened it might be opposite to your view.

There are many many worse things than infidelity in the world (although i agree it is a horrid thing to have to deal with), some of which i cannot even begin to think how i would cope with.

I know my h has his faults (and he knows he has many too) - he didnt one day wake up and think 'I will do this to destroy my wife, my children, my life' He would have responded in the same way you do now - he never dreamed he would do it.

That is what is so dreadful - sometimes things happen that you really cant understand.

Op - i would go for the honesty - as i could not look myself in the mirror if i though i held the control over someones life like that - it may not be the right think but it would be for me.

Op - know in your heart you will not regret your decision.

WhenwillIfeelnormal · 10/12/2009 10:17

I agree with the last few posts.

I think that couples should talk about infidelity, rather than sticking their head in the sand in the belief that it could never happen to them. Pre-affair, I believed that I would be more capable of infidelity than my H. Because I also believed that I would never actually do it, I reasoned that it was me who controlled the fidelity in our marriage. I now realise how smug and complacent I was - we can never control what our partners will do, however well we think we know them.

Butterballs is right - infidelity is sadly a part of life and the people practising it are not the devil incarnate - they are often good people in good marriages. I think to understand this, it helps to empathise with temptation. Because I have been tempted myself, I know how difficult it can be to resist someone telling you how wonderful you are all the time. If this happens when we have got high self-esteem and don't need an outside boost or a bit of escapism, it is easier to resist (my case).

If it happens when life is a bit grim and we are feeling unattractive and unappreciated, it is harder (my H's case). My H did turn down several earlier opportunities to be unfaithful (including with OW, when she was 13 years younger and 4 stone lighter!) but when ever these happened, he was in a better place in himself, so it was easier to say "no".

I don't think it helps us understand infidelity if we think of it as evil behaviour conducted by evil people. It is certainly horribly destructive, very painful for all concerned and not to be recommended, but we need to understand that it could happen to any one of us.

It is therefore much healthier to discuss the possibility of infidelity openly together - how to protect the marriage from it and devise strategies together to cope with inevitable temptations. It's also a good idea to identify each other's "weak points". It's a mistake though to concentrate these efforts on the errant spouse only - or more unusually, as in VCAU's case, the betrayed spouse. Both marriage partners need to work on affair-proofing the future marriage and this can only be achieved by being honest about the nature of temptation.

I agree that throwing a relationship away because of infidelity is often regretted by people after the event. I had to tell myself in the early days that my wounded pride and ego should have no part in affecting our children's lives and futures. However, I also know I could never have stayed with my H solely for the children's sake either. We have both worked very hard to create a new marriage that is more honest and I often think, more "grown up" in that we don't pretend any more that dreadful things can never happen to us. Like HW, I do sometimes regret the loss of child-like innocence, but not so much nowadays. In a way, that innocence led to complacency and disbelief and so I have grown to dislike it.

Like Butterballs, I dislike gender distinctions, but I do think men have traditionally been more pragmatic about infidelity. They do not necessarily see this as a forewarning that the primary relationship must be doomed and are able to separate more easily. Whereas I think a lot of women delude themselves that they must be terribly unhappy to be even considering another man. I am sure this is why my H's OW must have been baffled (and disbelieving) when my H told her he loved me and his marriage was happy.

I am seeing now though that unfortunately, men are becoming more female in their thinking and are leaving perfectly good marriages - and women are using "fuck buddles" to prop up their marriages. It is still destructive behaviour though, whoever is doing it.

Better I think to acknowledge the risk, discuss how to prevent it and have an honest dialogue about temptation, weak-spots, secrets, lies and moments when we could be more vulnerable than others.

Malificence · 10/12/2009 12:14

WWIFN - Your posts are always the ones that make me think the hardest about my absolutist views - I can't stop the way I feel and I just hope that I'm never put to the in test the way you were - you have my utmost respect and admiration for being able to create a new life from total heartbreak.

I agree entirely with your statements about agreeing boundaries and talking about "what if" scenarios before such situations arise.
My husband knows (and has always known from the age of 17 when he joined the Air force ) that he could have sex with anyone he wants, or he can have me, no room for manouver, no ifs or buts, I would leave and he would never see me again if he so much as touched another woman - it's that important to me because it would be destroying something so special to me, lifelong fidelity. Yet he has always said he would forgive me if I strayed,( perhaps because he knows that I never would?).

That said, talking about the future of a relationship and setting boundaries will only ever work if both partners are honest and don't just say what they think the other wants to hear.

I can't understand a marriage without honesty, that's what I really can't get my head around - if two people get together and say "look, I understand that these things can happen but I never want to know about it" that's one thing, but when one person takes away the other's choice by deciding not to admit an infidelity when there has been no such discussion, to me that's unforgivable.
Unless the betrayed partner is a complete idiot, they will know there is something not quite right, not that many people are pathological liars, most people can't lie half as well as they imagine.

WhenwillIfeelnormal · 10/12/2009 13:06

Thank you Mal, I really appreciate your comments. I also appreciate your respect for the route I took - it is by far the hardest thing I have ever done, but every day I am reminded how much my marriage was worth fighting for. I don't think any of us can change the things we feel passionately about, until something happens that forces us to confront it, so I understand why you feel the way you do - but you have the good grace and humility to say that a contrary view makes you think and question. I think that's a great quality.

I agree completely with you about secrets, but I accept that I didn't always think this way. My objection to secrets is that like you, I think it denies people their choices in life, but I also feel it is such a waste of potential in a marriage. I see every day how much more intimacy my H and I have for the "no secrets, complete honesty" ethos we now adopt. How much happier we both are as individuals, as parents and as a couple. Had I not experienced this (and also seen the dramatic difference in a friend's relationship when she finally admitted an affair) then I suspect I wouldn't feel as strongly as I do.

It's interesting isn't it - your H's belief that he would forgive you, gives you much more permission to be honest and you don't in any way interpret that as a licence to cheat. Whereas I wonder whether my hard-line stance prior to my H's affair meant that secrets were more likely, because the consequences were perceived by us both to be so catastrophic?

We've discussed this as a couple and agree that we could not tolerate infidelity again, but mainly because we've seen the pain it causes and it would mean something very different if it happened again. I wish we'd been more open with one another beforehand and I suppose this is what I try to get people to consider, so that they can avert a crisis like ours. I suppose we've learned that allowing each other to be honest about temptations and attractions to others does not mean giving eachother a mandate to be unfaithful - in fact it is more likely to prevent it.

I always think we are sent experiences for a reason - and I believe that this will help my H and I as parents preparing our own children for their relationships.