For those with narcissistic parents - care to join me?

[roseability]

How have you come to peace with this situation, knowing they will never be able to give you normal family love?

How do you keep an emotional distance and protect yourself?

Should they be allowed access to your own children?

Are they abusers?

sunshineandshowers - your brothers comment sums up my father perfectly.

I must admit when my parents divorced 10 years ago it made it a lot easier as I can deal with them seperately. My mum is fab.

Have some contact with him but over the years have become better able to expect nothing positive and if he does something not centred around him, that's nice. We live on other sides of the world as well so really only communicate via email. He did start in on my two teenage DD's wanting them to be his new emotional crutch, but soon put a stop to that. Luckily my aunt and uncle (his brother & sister) fully agree with how he is and support me a lot.

Reading the various forms of NPD and the character traits, plus looking back on the dynamics in my relationship with my ex-wife I am pretty much convinced that she has the milder form of NPD.

It explains a hell of a lot about her behaviour.

Grandiosity and egotistical behaviour.

Lack of empathy for others - little regard for the circumstances of daughters schooling, not looking after her upbringing (dental hygiene, clothes too small for her, not doing anything with her at weekends except passively watching her play on the Wii, not taking out to the park).

I thought it was reactive depression (which is a common mistake apparently), but the sheer unwillingness to do anything about admitting her situation, desperately seeking attention from men, not taking responsibility for actions during our relationship and afterwards...

it all fits.

I'm wary of internet diagnosis but this has completely blown me away this weekend.

When I discovered the existence of NPD and other personality disorders (when My now EX husband did a runner with all our money leaving me with our 6 month old baby and no job or income) it changed my life completely.

He briefly diagnosed himself before disappearing.

I started to read up about it. And the understanding that came with that was shocking but also liberating.

As others have said, I came to realise that my mother has NPD (and a combination of other disorders - not unusual as they overlap) and I have cut contact with my parents and the rest of my family as a result. Very difficult and upsetting to start with as she became very abusive and vicious. But I am ok with it now.

It also explained why I got into a string of abusive relationships (ie because I have been raised and therefore 'trained' by an NPD mother) which culminated in me marrying the most psycho one of them all!

Personality disorders such as NPD don't seem to make headlines anywhere - we have all heard of bi-polar and schizophrenia and many many other mental health issues but not PDs like narcissism and antisocial PD. Why not?

Because so many lives are blighted, even destroyed by people with these disorders it seems ridiculous that there isn't more sort of 'education' out there to help their victims.

My father is an alcoholic, but having stumbled across this thread, I think that narcissism is more of an issue. He seems utterly resistant to therapy and/or treatment, having been in rehab more than 18 times and often talks about how it doesn't work because he becomes a 'hero' to everyone else in the group and he's 'too good at it' (erm, how can you be too good at rehab if it doesn't make you sober?)

Examples of his narcissism -

• When he left my mother for another woman (in my childhood), he brought the woman to the house on Christmas Eve because he was so delighted with himself and in love with her that he of course assumed we would all feel the same
• He took said woman to Paris shortly after leaving my mother, despite the fact he had planned to go to Paris with my mother for their anniversary. Never even dawned on him this might be hurtful
• He perpetually talks about how important he is to other people e.g. 'she has great time for me, I'm a real hero to her' (and, for some reason, this does seem to be true for a lot of people, which I can not understand!)
• He rings me on my birthday to tell me what a fantastic job he's done with me and how he's so pleased I turned out the way he wanted (before starting a huge argument and then abusing the life out of me - go figure!)
• He has huge disdain for my mother who has 'never achieved anything' in her life but is a 'lovely ordinary woman' - she is a high-earning business woman and he is an unemployed alcoholic!
• He told me when I was 16 that he had serial affairs because he and my mother had sexual problems because 'she just wasn't any good at letting go' and was 'sexually uptight' (he wasn't drunk when he told me this!)
• He frequently accuses me of being narcissistic for not wanting to be in more contact with him (on his terms of course)
• He turned up drunk to my wedding and had to be removed - later he had a go AT ME for not thanking him in my speech! (He wasn't even there!)
• When I told him I was pregnant, he told me it was the best thing I had ever done for him before spending an hour talking about a funeral he'd been to the day before
• He has no idea what my husband's first name is, what dh's parents' names are, what I do for a living. He finds those details 'boring' and a 'waste of time' as he would prefer to talk about 'real stuff' (e.g. himself)

I have maintained contact over the years, but am just now beginning to cut him out. I have spoken to him twice since becoming pregnant. He is calling me daily at the moment and I have told him I will email him but don't want to speak. He is not responding to the emails as these are not 'real communication'.

I think my father has NPD. He either over praised me as a child or criticised me for the most trivial of matters. He is always on about himself and his needs. He is very critical of others, does not like men and seems to always judge women (foremost) by their sexual attractiveness. He is sexually inappropriate - commenting on how sexy other women are (or talking about past conquests)to his own daughter - majorly creepy. He never accepts any blame/responsibility for wrong doing. He is very vain and thinks his presence alone is a gift. He forgets birthdays of close relatives such as children and grandchildren.

Gifts were always disappointing. Always flew into rages. God so many tick boxes.

I have to say that since spending time on the weblink last night and not being able to sleep I am now in a total state of bewilderment and confusion.

I now realise that my life is based on my mother's decisions, not mine, even down to dating my husband. So much physical abuse has come back to my mind through the night from when we were smaller that I am very upset inside and having spoke with my sister last night (there are 4 of us) it turns out that they are all in agreement and were waiting for the final piece in the jigsaw to fall into place - ME!

I feel like my whole life has been spent trying to get my mother's approval and all my successes which she has denied me have all gone by in the best years of my life.

Now I don't even know who I am.

It is a revelation isn't it?

There should be more education about it

My adoptive father used to tell me he could have been an olympic champion but he didn't get the backing. I was then expected to fulfil this lost dream (he was actually very average at the sport he chose).

He lost interest in me when I became pregnant with my first child as I think he realised I was never going to become that sporting champion. Even to this day he believes I had the talent but bottled it. I didn't actually and most importantly didn't want to be a sports person. I did it purely to gain his approval.

However he thought he could get his narcissistic supply from my children so he kept up his fake interest in me. He has never seen my son as a person in his own right but as someone who is 'handsome' and might one day be brilliant at sport or academia. He dismissed my daughter out of sight because she doesn't live up to his deluded ideas of beauty and perfection (she has red hair and a pale complexion).

He doesn't listen to me ever. Interupts what I am saying and other people's converstaions and talks about himself or his opinions excessively. He doesn't know where I work, what my job description is or any important details about my children.

He was obsessed with my weight and appearance to the point where I developed mild eating disorders. He wasn't afraid to call me 'fat' or assasinate my character.

He has a menial job but somehow it is the most important job in the world because he does it. He has bizzare eating habits and only repsects the opinions of authority figures or those who give him narcissistic supply. Once you don't provide this he will drop you or attack you spectacularly or out of the blue. He will rage at people for the slightest criticism

I wrote him a letter spelling out my issues, he responded by cutting me out.

He is now wanting to phone and apologise, thinks he has been harsh. This is through my adoptive mother not his own words. However I know in my heart he is either doing it out of obligation or because he doesn't want to lose his narcissistic supply from my DS (what if he becomes a great sportsman or a huge success?)

I have seen my adoptive mother shrivel, wither and die inside after 30 years as his wife. I am taking no more. I know in my heart I don't want his apology or contact with him. I have actually begun to flourish as a mother and a person out of his controlling clutches. My apotive mother has stood back and enabled him and did nothing to support me.

I know he is like he is because he had an abusive childhood. Somewhere in my heart I do feel sympathy but I don't have to forgive what he did to me

Also do true narcissists sometimes show normal emotions. My adoptive father has said he loves me and that he is proud of me (not very often). He does occasionally show normal sentiments and emotions. This confuses me a bit

You know mrsbean78, sounds like he is npd. Demeaning your mum, and the Paris thing - I'm sure he would have been aware that it would be hurtful. If you show them you are vulnerable or care about something, they will deliberately exploit that. My npd dad would scrape his plate with his knife at every meal - I used to ask him not to - that was his cue to do it more - every day for years. It seems like a small thing, but it's one of a collection of indignities that means I am very often in 'fight' mode and feel very uncertain about myself.

I cut contact with my dad at the beginning of this year after I began to make a record of his abuses. Didn't take long for the last straw - he insulted my brother in veiled terms at a family occasion and deliberately made certain I was listening, by calling my name and looking at me with his horrible hypnotic stare. He would always demean me in every conversation - like the last time we arranged to go somewhere, he told me where the disabled entrance was, in case I wished to use it (I do not have a disablity). The accumulation of all this is feelings of weakness and shame which I don't know how to free myself from. It's better since there has been no contact.

ive had a very up and down time with my mother, as a child i would always be put down, i had responsiblity of my younger sister from about 9 years old, like getting her to school, making her tea sometime, bathing her. if i done something like tidy my room in the wrong way she would go into a rage and trash it, or she would watch me wash up and throw thing back in the bowl if it wasnt cleaned properly.

then as i grew up it got more and more dramatic and then came a succession of her cutting me out and then her "forgiving me"!! and i always went back

the first big one was when i was 15, i had got into big trouble at school so she sent me to my dads (with a huge row about how i was hurting her and i must have really hated her ) then she changed her phone number the next day and sent my clothes (the rubbish ones) to the police station for me to pick up!

i didnt speak to her for 10 months until she came up to me in town and said i didnt need to apologise now and that all was forgiven! but i was only 16 and thought that it was fair, i had my mum and my younger sisters back.

all was well until i fell pregnant at 17, she promptly told me that i couldnt have it because of how it would look as her 3 year old would be an auntie! i told her i was keeping it and again she changed her number.
that time i didnt speak to her for 9 months. (i didnt have the child in the end, but that was beside the point)

after 9 months she contacted me saying it was her exh fault she said those things and she all was forgotten again.

-everything was as crap normal as before and i had my ds and she adored him but the relationship was always one sided, she would alway buy me things and me and dp would always help with my sisters, and help when she got drunk and was in hospital.

then i fell preg with my dd and i had caught my dp snogging his mates wife. we were going though a really rough time then as another one of our friends 2 year old had died 2 days before and he didnt want to have another child. anyway i kicked him out and after 2 weeks we decided to work things through and he came home. well that was the last i heard from her.
until 4 months of me calling her, texting her and a few letters of begging and getting no reply, she text me saying i was selfish, only wanted her for her money and never did anything for her

we had a few abusive drunken phone calls from her after that, with her slagging mine and dps family off and me dp and my ds!

so after that i changed my number as she had done to me before! and i have never looked back.

i know that she has spun it to be all my fault to her friends and her dh's family but i couldnt care less, i know how she treated me but this time i am a mother myself and if she can do it to me she could do it to my chilren! well over my dead body. im done with it all now. i have broken the cycle.

i just have to wait now for my youngest sister to grow up and im sure the same will happen. but until she is ready to move on there is nothing i can do. she is 11 now so im hoping there is not too much longer to wait.

i am also dealing with my 19 year old sister who is going rapidly of the rails as she cannot handle all the emotions that our mother has caused her and is severly grieving for the mother she wanted and never got.

ladylush, the inconsistent treatment is typical (over-praise or criticism). It's bewildering - I only just started to look for patterns of behaviour.

roseability, I cut contact with my dad after he remarried. I feel very sorry for his new wife but felt that I had to protect myself. She is lovely - don't think she realised who he actually was. Your adoptive mother is in a bad situation, but I think that there is a limit to what you can do. My mum for example was totally in thrall to him despite being very unhappy and still does not realise her lucky escape since he left her. Also, regarding the abusive childhood thing - not every abused child decides to be poisonous towards their loved ones.

I have recently come to the conclusion that my mum has NPD. She seems impossible to please. In my entire life I don't think I have ever had an unqualified compliment from her.

All the examples I could come out with would sound incredibly petty but 36yrs worth seriously add up.

I actually found having children incredibly liberating because I had never noticed how bad she treated me. Just a drip, drip of negative criticism but coached in quite loving terms.

She now has diabetes. But, of course, she knows better than the doctors and dieticians.

For the past 9 years I have suspected she wasn't normal. My friends Mums offered practical and emotional support which I have never received. Finding out about NPD has been a lightbulb moment for me.

I have decided to not cut contact with her as

A I don't think she has long left. The diabetes and highblood pressure (again the doctors don't know what they are talking about) will finish her off.

B My Dad is lovely and it would break my heart to never see him again.

I actually treat her like she has a mental illness (which she does) which, surprisingly, has made her a lot easier to deal with.

But is what he did truly abusive? Is he really narcissistic?

mrsbean78 - my Mum was an alcoholic, but I didn't cut off contact until she had stopped drinking for about 10 years. In many ways, I'm glad about that as I've not been led into thinking she was the way she was because of the booze. It's because she's off her head.

My sister is very bright and was accepted at Oxford when she was 16. It still makes her incandescent with rage that my Mum tried to take the credit for this.

My favourite is still another story my sister told me. My Mum used to just rant and rage for hours on the phone or for pages in writing. My sister and her once had an argument on the phone and my sister hung up. About a month later she got a letter from her which started 'and another thing...' and continued in that vein for 14 pages.

Certainly don't miss that mother-daughter bond people are always going on about.

mitford - he had an abusive childhood (father used to beat him - think there was a fair share of pychological abuse thrown in as well) - think he was damaged as a child iyswim.

I do not cross my mother and to avoid crossing her I limit my time with her.
In short I do damage limitation.

The last time I accidentally annoyed her was about 2 weeks ago.
I have been trying to help my SIL since she got pregnant.
In a conversation I said wanted to help her as I felt alone when I was pregnant.
Immediately my mother attacked "Well you did not tell anyone, until late in your pregnancy"
So untrue.
I had no one with me when I was pregnant but my DP.
It has been news to them since that about 30 weeks pregnant, I collapsed having a nervous breakdown on the main corridor at work. DP took me out of work in a wheelchair in a catatonic state.

btw I had previously let my family know I was pregnant at about 12 weeks

psychological

Rosability in answer to your OP:
1)I gave up all ideas of having a normal relationship with my father when I was very young. I am resigned to the NPD but it is a recent revelation as before I just thought he was incredibly self-absorbed and vain.
2)By being emotionally detached. I do not crave love from him.
3)He shows little interest in my son and by contrast is overly interested in my dd (always asking for photos-probably because he knows I do not want to see him whereas before dd arrived he knew he could see ds whenever he wanted). My increased detachment/revulsion is in many ways a result of having children - the desire to protect them.
4) Abusers? Don't know. Toxic? Certainly.

He almost damaged me for good I think. It is only becuase I got away to university that the dysfunctional bond was broken. Thank goodness.

I even began to show narcissistic traits myself, I feel from a damaged self esteem. I found it hard to really feel emotions e.g. emapathy, sadness. I was always very envious of people and although I would never put someone down to boost myself, it was an unhealthy level of envy. I would delete photographs I didn't like myself in, even if they were nice ones of family members.

I know I didn't have the disorder as I have developed insight and saught treatment (counselling and ADs). There are a few people I treated badly in the past, trying to boost my low self-esteem. But I do feel genuine remorse. I can't change it and have even lost friends because of it but I can recognise what I did wrong and will never repeat my mistakes.

I feel having children and getting away from my adoptive father has allowed the real me to emerge. Now I cry at sad films and really feel empathy for other people. I love my children dearly as people in their own right

rosability I too inherited traits from my father - not so much narcissism but an unhealthy (negative) introspection. Thankfully I have always had the ability to show empathy and am not a selfish person - though like everyone am capable of being selfish. Thank feck I was mainly raised by my mother. Lord knows what she ever saw in him. Mind you, she always goes for arrogant men.

roseability, from what you have said he is definitely abusive. I think that part of the problem is that the behaviour they exhibit is covert, and also that they will 'train' you to accept certain comments and treatments. Appeals for my dad to desist with shame inducing or painful treatment would be ignored - by him and my mum - so that I came to think that I could not protect myself at all. This is common in children of npds - you are mistreated and the mistreatment worsens if you try to protect yourself.

I believe my Mil Is. she is always talking about herself knows nothing about her kids/grankids.

Best example is i call her to say we are at hospital (myself/4 dc;s) as DH is in intensive care after asthma attack..(her son)
she says oh my hayfever has been playing up this week and she is on her way home home to put the shopping away .

mitfordsisters 'This is common in children of npds - you are mistreated and the mistreatment worsens if you try to protect yourself.'

That is such a succinct and accurate way to put it. It helps me understand why I didn't 'stand up' to my abusive ex. My childhood had taught me that would be the worst thing I could do. Thank you for helping me see that so clearly.