All these Mother-in-Law postings

[Extended]

When I read all these Mother-in-Law postings it makes me sad. Not that I doubt the sincerity of what people write but because I think they don?t appreciate what it is like for young couples when there is no parental support available.

In the three years we were at university, this was prior to getting married, we lost all four parents (two in a motorway crash, one in a accident on the farm and one with cancer). Quite a lot to cope with in your late teens and early 20?s!

Try having no parents at your wedding, no grandparents for your children and no sources of emotional support available 24/7.

The loss of our parents was life changing for both of us so just remember that in the vast majority of cases any parent is better than none.

'And I get the feeling that sometimes that is what the partners want - they think that 'they' are the family now and MIL is only tolerated under sufferance .

This is the distinct impression that I get. The DIL has a family and wants her DH as part of her family and hasn't allowed for the fact that she is now part of his extended family. Althought I think I will make a pretty good MIL, I have no intention of disappearing! When people say as they often do, 'marriages have nothing to do with families,'I disagree strongly-my DSs do not come alone-they come with me and DH, grandparents, brothers,cousins etc.
Problem MILs seem to be the ones who don't realise it is time to let go.
Problem DILs are the ones who fail to make an effort to make their own relationship with their new family.
Possessiveness-of any sort-is always wrong IMO.

Some really interesting posts on here - Piscesmoon - agree with all you say and HolyG I like your list and and your sentiments.

It's all about women isn't it really DILS and MILS. Someone said that you never see anything on MN about sons and their MILS and wondered if it was because in the main men don't use MN. Could be one reason but I suspect the problem doesn't really exist somuch between men and their MILS. I know 2 of my sons aren't wild about their MILS but they just get on with it and don't make an issue out of it.

SO it appears to be the age old thing about 2 women competing for 1 man to put it simply. At the risk of repeating myself I think the 2 things to bear in mind for all DILS is:

1. You will love your son with the same intensity when he is an adult (and P/H and father) as you do now. You will still feel that same need to protect him and want the best for him. SO please try to remember that this is what your MIL feels - she can't help it. She's not feeling it to get at you or keep him tied to her apron strings....it's just the way it is - maybe mother nature slipped up a bit here and it would be easier if it wasn't like this. (Those of you with good caring parents, do you not see that your own mother still feels like this about you?)

1. You need to consider both sides of the dilemma. A lot of posts talk of MILS being resentful that they are no longer No. 1 etc etc. and being overbearing etc. I have no doubt that this is true and I feel it myself a little at times. BUT please also consider that you too may feel uncomfortable with the fact that your P/H has a close connection with another woman - his mother! I have yet to see this acknowledged or recognised by any of the DILS on MN. I am sure this dynamic is at the root of a lot of the MILS problems.

MILS need to accept that they are no longer No. 1 with their son and to accept their DIl for who she is and be tactful and sensitive if problems arise. As far as GC are concerned, they should not in any circumstances be giving advice. Child rearing practices have changed enormously over the past 30/40 years and I would not dream of offering advice. I still reemember my own MIL telling me what I should and shouldn't be doing and how that made me feel. Like Piscesmoon I am more than happy for the new parents to get on with it - broken nights and all!!

Please DILS also remember that it is a 2 way street and for as many dragon MILS out there are dragon DILS! There was a post on here about a MIL who left 2 children in the house for a few minutes whenshe went to the shop and to read the posts, you would think she had boiled the children in a vat of oil! Many of my friends have DILS and GC and there are often problems arising (as there are with one of my 3 DILS). A close friend has spent months knitting for her 1st GC (I did warn her that new moms don't always want old fashioned hand knitted stuff these days) but she got great pleasure from doing it. She sent it all off through the post when the new GC arrived but heard nothing. SO she phoned to see if the parcel had arrived, to be told by DIL "Oh yes it came but babies don't wear that sort of stuff anymore so we won't be using it." Now how unkind is that? Why didn't she just say thank you and then give it to the charity shop. My friend wouldnever have known as she lives 300miles away and is not going to be seeing much of her GC as she has to wait for invites to visit. Has not yet been invited and new GC is 3 weeks old.

Phew..............on and on it goes.

I don't mean to be provocative here but others must have heard the old saying

"A daughters a daughter all of her life and a son's a son till he gets him a wife."

Now that came from somewhere didn't it. I have 2 lovely DILS and 1 who I have to be careful with. In this case I feel to some extent that I have lost my son as he is very much dominated by her. In fact I dream about every couple of months that he is a little boy of 2 or 3 and I lose him in a crowd and wake up still searching for him. Now that is my sub-conscious at work so I can't be blamed for that. Never feel that about my other 2 sons.

Sorry I must stop..........one more thing. There is a new book out about the r/ship between MILS AND DILS - just don't have the preview with me but when I find it I willpost the name of thebook.

Have to say I have found this thread very interesting and thought provoking.

Yes, I agree with NanaNina that some of the MIL stories you read on MN is just needless moaning and some people really should appreciate what they have got.

I think that if I hadn't have had somewhere like MN to vent my anger and frustration at my MIL I would have gone mad and my marriage would have been under more strain than it already was thanks to MIL. As it happens I still suffer from panic attacks which stems from FIL and MIL (well FIL really who burst into our house shouting at me and calling me names but MIL was the instigator of that incedent).

I use MN as a support network and I'm sure lots of others do too.

As someone has already said, people who post on here about MIL/DIL stuff, are more likely to be doing it because of a problem in the relationship. They may be after advice, they may just want somewhere to vent rather than have a full on row with the MIL/DIL. I think that for the OP it is obviously difficult because she has never (sadly) had the opportunity to have any MIL/DIL relationship and is therefore assuming that the rest of us should be grateful for having what she didin't. The thing is, as someone else said, it is true that the MIL can change from being a great friend or at least great MIL, when the GC come along.

My MIL has never accepted me from the outset. She made it clear to both me and DH that our marriage did not have her blessing and she has continued to make it crystal clear every step of the way. When our DCs were born, we even had to beg her to come and see them! (Oh for a MIL who showed any sort of interest in her GC, even if it was only telling me what I was doing wrong!) Even now, she sees my DCs rarely. Hasn't seen either of them in over a year and yet only lives 5 minutes away! Sadly, they are now adults and can choose whether to see her or not. They choose not! They also choose to see my mum, who lives much further away, at least once a week which is more than I do! So I guess in MIL's case, seekers idea has happened. But I do find it sad!

A very sane post NanaNina. So much of it is needless-the DIL with the knitting could have been kind, dressed up the baby in the knitted item-taken a lovely photo and sent it with a thank you note. She could then have given it all to a charity shop-MIL would never have known. Probably she was a thoughtless person with everyone. I didn't comment on the grandparent who left the DCs alone thread-it seemed to run for pages of outrage-all it needed was a polite request not to do it again.
A little kindness, understanding and thoughtfulness on both sides would go a long way to making a better relationship. It does take time to adjust to each other-but is worth the effort IMO.(Both sides need to expect effort from the outset)

I read a great article a while ago where someone (I think the CEO of PepsiCo) said that in all types of relationships we should "assume positive intent" in situations where there could be more than one interpretation of a comment. I think it's great advice and I have tried it many times with my MIL. Sadly, I am finding that I need to make this assumption more and more these days to the point where I feel I must be crazy to be looking for the positive intent of yet another intensely irritating comment or question.

I appreciate the OP's point that maybe many of us don't realise how lucky we are to have a mother in law at all, however, in many cases, where we see our own children disappointed by our MIL's behaviour or find ourselves squabbling with our DHs over yet another "well meaning" comment,it's hard to feel so lucky. It's all relative (no pun intended) as so many things are. We all would find things to miss about our MILs should they suddenly cease to be in our lives for any reason, but the fraught relationships still remain in many cases and it is very hard to feel "lucky" in the midst of real problems. In general, yes, of course I am glad that my children have 4 grandparents but day to day life doesn't allow me to constantly feel so blessed.

When I first met DH (16 years ago), I fully understood that he came with family and he did a lot for his parents e.g. taking them on holiday or on outings (they don't drive). What I didn't expect was the full-on hatred, tantrums (there was one when we told them that we were getting married, because they immediately thought that with me there, he wouldn't be able to do these things anymore), and abuse, both over the phone and in my own home (during the ILs last tantrum, FIL stood at the bottom of our stairs and shouted abuse up at me, while I was holding 13 month old DD1), and that I'd be expected to 'sweep it under the rug' and play at 'happy families' afterwards. I did that for 12 years before giving up. I thought that eventually I'd 'win them over' and we'd have a good relationship (with the odd disagreement), just the same as I have with my parents, and my parents had with their ILs but looking back, that was never going to happen. I've also learnt over the years, that my ILs have always had 'troublesome' IL relationships with everybody who has married someone close to them. It isn't a case of it being something to do with me; they would have been like that whoever their Son married.

Despite my experience, I still think that the vast majority of IL relationships are good ones, with just the odd disagreement. But I also think those are down to "give and take", not "sweating the small stuff" and knowing when to "button it" on all sides. For some women, it's natural to feel protective towards their adult 'offspring' and for them to feel a little sad that they've grown up and are getting married. What is not natural, is to give voice to those feelings and treat your DIL/Son in law (and in my case, the mother of the only grandchildren my MILs got), like devil's spawn just because they came along and married your Son/daughter.

As it's turned out, 14 years after the tantrum they threw when we got engaged, my ILs have got what they wanted; their Son visiting and taking them out, by himself. I'm no longer prepared to spend any more of my Saturdays, sitting by myself in the ILs lounge for hours at a time, while they sit in another room with DH and DDs, as used to happen when we visited. I think I've wasted spent enough time, trying for a decent relationship with them.

Thankyou for your really interesting posts NanaNina

Nananina - I was appreciating your posts until you referred to my situation.

My MIL left my children alone - it was 5 mins cos I got back earlier - she was out for 15 mins with potatoes boiling on the cooker, the oven on and my disabled dd2 unsupervised!

She did not, to quote you, "boil them in a vat of oil". But the risks were big. No-one in their right mind leaves a 9 year old in charge of a 5 year old for 15 minutes with a fire hazard (which she did not warn them about).

Apart from anything else, it is illegal, and my dd1 was worried about what she would do in an emergency as it was at MILs house where she doesn't know any neighbours etc.

I'm sorry, but this kind of attitude is why DILs get so irate. My DH is even angrier, has raised it with his mother, who as refused to apologise.

My children's safety is my proirity. If you choose to minimise that with your own GC, go right ahead.

PM - the "polite request not to do it again" - and i listened in on the convo - dh was VERY polite -

ended up with MIL in tears, saying she "was only doing her best for the family", and loads of "poor me you just don't understand"

Would you be just so laid back if someone had left your kids in that situation - a childminder? a nanny? a MIL?

she has also refused to apologise as she didn't do anything wrong in her opinion.

she has refused to say it will definitely not happen again.

she has said that dh is unreasonable for asking her not to let my 7yo ds go quad biking on a farm track with no helmet (an in fact even with a helmet its unacceptably risky ...)

she has blamed me for "putting him up to it" (and people wonder why DILs get offended

she has not called back - including not talking to the kdis on their first day back at school this week - according to BIL she is "too upset to speak to anyone"

I am going to bed now.

weegiemum for what it's worth I was absolutely horrified at reading that your MIL had left your DC's on their own.

Not only is it bloody irresponsible but illegal too. If anyone left my DC's on their own (mine are 9 and 6) then it would certainly be the last time that they ever looked after them on their own. It wouldn't make any difference who it was MIL, my mum, brother, babysitter, whoever, the outcome would be the same.

And your MIL refusing to apologise for it.

My MIL did a similar thing with my DD when she was 6. We used to live next door to IL's and MIL was asked if she could meet dd off the school bus as I was running late to get home. She did and I was very grateful but when I went to fetch dd from IL's house MIL informed me that she had unlocked our front door and put dd inside!!

Luckily I got home 2 minutes after the school bus.

Luckily dd was a very sensible 6 year old at the time and just went and played in her room.

Luckily it wasn't my ds as he would have had the place burnt down in two minutes flat!!

Luckily I didn't let my temper get the better of me and knock MIL flat!

Oh dear weegiemum I think you need to calm down a little. You seem to be hyping this thing up even more now - I remember the original post said 5 mins, and it is now 15 minutes and I don't recall anything about one of your children being disabled as such.

Just for the record, it isn't actually illegal to leave a minor with another minor (children under 18) BUT if anything happens to either child the parents/carers can be charged with neglect. Strange I know but that is how it is.

I remember your H phoned her to complain and she was upset and angry and I'm not surprised really, as such a call would come out of the blue and yes I remember she said she thought you had put him up to it and that was a bit hurtful but she probably found it too hurtful to accept that her son was criticising her. Don't know why it couldn't have been mentioned in passing in an ordinary conversation. If I remember rightly you had reached an impasse with your H wanting to phone his mother to see if she was OK and you not wanting him to do this. Seemed to me like you wanted to punish her a bit more.

Now it seems you expected her to phone you and are angry because she hasn't and hasn't apologised. She is probably very hurt and upset and I'm not surprised. It wsn't right toleave the children but maybe she acted out of thoughtlessness rather than anything else. You don't ever have toleave the kids with her again unsupervised so why can't you just move on.

I do wonder if this has given you the opportunity you wanted to severe connections with your MIL??

extended I do feel sorry for your situation but eg in my case my MIL mounted an e-mail campaign to try and persuade my dh to leave me (this was after we had children) it took place over an extended period of time often several times a day and periodically comes back. It was also accompanied by personal insults (against me).

She has done such delightful things as refused to speak to my children to their face, feed their cousins the last piece of my dcs cake and try to make them watch their cousins eat it (plese don't pick up on whose cake it was the cousins had allready had some and were welcome to it it was just given out in front of my dcs), and push my 3 yr old away when they tried to hold her hand and tell them to go away she was playing with x (cousin) it goes without saying that birthday cards/presents or our children are a no no.

She is verbally abusive about all her relatives behind their backs (especially DIL/SIL) her family (when they are being rational) will admit she is pretty bad. She had such a poor relationship with her own husbands family they had to leave the country.

Believe it or not we do still try but it is dificult to see a lot of good in her or find a lot to encourage in her relationship with our children.

Nananina you, I think, are taking things a bit personally. What's your relationship like with your DIL? I might have described it in more dramatic terms this time, but that was in response to your trivialising of the incident in your previous post.

It would have been 15 mins - i arrived after 5 mins - MIL was gone for another 10.

My dd2 has a temporary disability - unless you think that a child who is not allowed to run, jump, hop, skip, or walk for more than a couple of minutes and spends her whole day in a wheelchair is perfectly NT. Forgive me for not giving loads of personal details!!

With my MIL, you can't just "drop it into a normal conversation" because she ignores things if you do this.

I'm not "ratcheting" anything up. I'm (I think) justifiably upset that my children were put at risk. I don't want to "sever connections" - now look who is being dramatic? I would like to know my children were safe. My dh has called back once, but just to be met with dramatic sobbing and tales of all her friends thinking she did nothing wrong .... so DH has decided the ball is in her court.

I would like an apology, and an assurance that it will not happen again.

You seem determined to defend all MILs, at any cost.

I didn't read all the thread weegiemum but I think it could have been handled much better from both sides-you have now both dug yourself into a corner that it is impossible to get out of. You obviously are still extremely upset about it and I expect MIL is too. I think she was badly in the wrong, but that had it been put in a different way she might just have apologised, rather than been thrown onto the defensive. I think in that sort of situation you need to find a middle ground where one can apologise without losing face, because you may have another 30yrs or so to have a relationship with this woman. It will be a shame if relationships are soured because of one error of judgement.

I think I've done my MiL to death on mumsnet, and haven't really contributed to this thread as I am so angry with her, I just cant keep going over it - I get chest pains when I think of her because I am so anxious and stressed. I am resentful of DH because he never backed me up - he has, however agreed to move house within the next year but that's only to shut me up I think. If I didn't have mumsnet, I would have either ripped her to pieces by now, or sent myself over the edge.

Weegie, I would be furious if I was in your position, and you are right to demand an apology, and/or at the very least her acknowledgement that she was wrong. On the one hand we are expected to be understanding that MiLs still get a maternal rush when a GC is born and instinct to care for him/her kicks in, but then are not allowed to make a fuss when they put our babies in harms way.

It maybe should have been 'handled better' PM, I agree.

Thing is, we decided dh should deal with it as it was his mother who was involved (if it had been my parents, I would have done it) and he had to decide the best way to deal with it, knowing his mother.

He was shocked at her attitude and is more upset than I am about her response.

I do feel dug into a corner now, and I don't like it.

But I have to think of my children's safety, and the fact that she won't apologise or guarantee she won't do it again puts us at an impasse. We're offending her by asking her to guarantee our children will be properly looked after? I find that weird.

Anyway, hoping it will be sorted out soon. Dh says we should wait for her to call, but I was going to ask him later if we (he) should call again? I don't want to fall out with her - I always thought we had a good relationship, despite the fact I know she didn't approve of us getting married (she cried - not from happiness - for days when we got engaged) and that she she snoops when she is here and reports to dh (once told him she thought I drank too much because there was a bottle of gin and a bottle of vodka in the cupboard - but they had both been there for about 3 years!).

I've made a huge effort over the years, but when my children's safety is at stake - and it was - then I feel I have to draw the line somewhere!

HarryB, thats that your dh doesn't back you up. That's one thing I can be sure of.

If my dh thinks that IABU about MIL (and yes, sometimes I am, I admit - though only in ranting to him about it, never to her face) then he will tell me. But we decide on a united front and stick to it.

My dh is very nice!

I am very sorry for the loss of your family
However, my ILs were extremely toxic and caused no end of problems for me, DH and DC for the first 10 years or so of our marriage. By sticking up for ourselves, they are actually 'OK' now and it's all civil but it has been horrendous before recently.

I think it is one of those situations that you have to have been through it to know what it is like.

Weegie, the worst thing is that DH does think she's a pita at times, but he doesn't want to upset her by challenging her because she's still grieving for his Father who died 2 years ago. I think there is an element of truth in that, but I actually think he wants a quiet life. She is so dominant and has to control everything so he's had a life time of that and is resigned to it. I, however, am not, and will not take her shit for a quiet life. Even my own mum and dad call her Hitler and they've only met her a few times.

Harry - my MIL still plays the "but I'm on my own" card even though she has been divorced for 15 years.

My dh has learned to ignore it, but it has been hard.

jellybeans - I think you are right. We cannot understand what Extended has been through because (thankfully) we have never been through it. But neither can someone with either perfect or no Ils understand the pressure difficult inlaws can bring.

My dh always says he is glad it is my stepmum who is his MIL rather than his own mum!

I have 3 DS and hope to be nothing like my MIL. I think toxic ILs haven't let go and in many cases the son is too scared to stand up to her. My MIL main issues...

-saw her and DH as 'the family' and me and DC as DHs 'extended family' (her words), so she was, in her mind, clearly no 1 in his life still.
-saw our home as hers too, when asked to ring us before calling round she said,'why would I make an appointment to see my own son?'
-made it clear she only wanted DH and DC (she actually tried to make me abort DD1 but begrudgingly came round to having grandDC) and nothing to do with me (she was the same with DH exs) ie snatch my newborn baby and ignore me or be rude.

I think it is harder as MIL was very close (as in would just call round without notice) to her family (but not her ILs, she stopped DH dad seeing him as a baby when they split so never had her own MIL, they (paternal grandparents) were cut out on divorce) but my family are so different, we ring etc before calling.

My MiL thinks she can just pop round when she wants. MY idiot DH gave her a key which he has yet to get back despite me badgering him. She has only ever used it once but even still, I don't like her having it. I was raised to have some manners, to call someone and ask if it is convenient to visit. DH has told her to ring before she comes but she ignores that, like she ignores everything.

weegiemum - sorry if you think I am taking things too personally. I have 3 DILS and have an excellent r/ship with 2 of them (they are the daughters I nevr had) DIL No 3 is a bit tricky but I try at all times to keep the cart on the wheels and mostly it's fine but out of the blue will come a very hurtful comment that I ignore. My other 2 DILS have noticed all this and tell me that dIL No 3 is just insecure and doesn't like the fact that I am her Hs mom and we have a good r/ship - nothing more nothing less.

Now, I was certainly not trying to trivialise what happened withyour MIL and I said on the original posts that she should NOT have left the children alone. I am certainly not trying to say your daughter is not disabled and sorry that this has got caught up in the mix - it was just I didn't recall anything about that in the original post - my mistake.

I am NOT condoning what your MIL did and I certainly would not put my GC at thatkind of risk. I don't even like them out of my sight in our back garden which is completely enclosed! I think Piscesmoon put it very well and I think this is my point really, not condoning what happened but not agreeing with the way it was handled, and wondering how this is going to be resolved as as PM says there is a long time left for this r/ship to run. I suppose I did think there was something of an over reaction though especially with all the posts totally condemning your MIL. I can't imagine that she knew that she was putting the children at risk - was she not acting thoughtlessly rather than neglectfully. Suspect this is the case.

Re the impasse with neither side wanting to "give in" - I just think that whatever conflict we get into if it is left it somehow "solidifies" and makes matters worse. I think (at the risk of annoying you again) that it is a bit demeaning for her to expect her to apologise and say it won't happen again (it sounds like what you might expect a child to do). My guess is that she is hurt and is covering her hurt with anger which is what we do a lot of the time.

It seems that you don't actually know why she did what she did - why can't you ask her?? Seems you need to have a talk about this and maybe as PM says if your MIL can come down from her defensive position you might be able to move on. On the other hand none of this may be possible and your MIl may well be a very difficult woman.

Finally Weegiemum I do think your comment that I am determined to defend all MILS at any cost is totally unfair. If you have read my other posts I think you will see that I have taken a balanced position about the great DILS/MILS debate and have tried to point out the difficulties of the dynamic between these 2 women in society. Some of the MILS on here sound horrendous BUT I guess most MILS aren't on MN and so we don't hear the other side of the story! It IS a 2 way street and I hear from my MIL friends things about badly behaved DILS.

DO hope you can find it in your heart to forgive your MIL without expecting her to climb down (as this seems unlikely) and isn't a realistic expectation really in my view.