All these Mother-in-Law postings

[Extended]

When I read all these Mother-in-Law postings it makes me sad. Not that I doubt the sincerity of what people write but because I think they don?t appreciate what it is like for young couples when there is no parental support available.

In the three years we were at university, this was prior to getting married, we lost all four parents (two in a motorway crash, one in a accident on the farm and one with cancer). Quite a lot to cope with in your late teens and early 20?s!

Try having no parents at your wedding, no grandparents for your children and no sources of emotional support available 24/7.

The loss of our parents was life changing for both of us so just remember that in the vast majority of cases any parent is better than none.

Absolutely Seeker. So perhaps the current MILs were nasty DILs too?

That is my belief too Seeker-I have always been fair and friendly, so I am expecting the same. Since I have done parenting(for a long time) I am happy to move on, and have no strong views to impart on child rearing- I am looking forward to leaving it all to the parents and just having fun!

My sister has found Mumsnet really useful and has, finally, got me to sign up.

I don't really feel the need to explore the traumatic spell when there were four deaths in the family as Extended has pretty much covered that for readers.

What I can say is that the neighbours were fantastic and made such difference during those early months. The no fuss, no bother offers of help - that were followed up - helped so much.

I read through the diaries of the time and still wonder quite how we came through intact. We were so young (the oldest of the four of us was only early 20's), so financially innocent. Luckily we had so much love in the house that we found our way out of the dark tunnel.

seeker, I'm sorry I'm going to have to disagree with you, what goes around doesn't always come around!

I don't really think what goes around come around. With my ex's mums, I got on fabulously well with them, we were really like great friends and still to this day, years later, if I passed them in the street they'd be pleased to see me, and me them. And both my ex's were mummies boys.

However, my relationship with my current MIL has been the most problematic relationship I have probably ever had with anyone. I'm not even going to go into it all but honestly, what a nightmare. Nowadays, I am really glad to say that we have been making effort to get on and build a relationship - this however is only after many fallouts, arguments, power struggles and major stress. Anyway, I would love a great relationship with her and will continue to make effort as long as she does.

I guess my point is, that for me, I will learn from the way that she treated me, that I will never treat anyone like that because it was disgusting - I plan in the future (if I am lucky enough to be a MIL) to try my best not to make the same mistakes or to make everyones lives unnecessarily difficult.

I also agree with the lady who said you never hear about the good MILs, just like you never really hear about good DHs or DILs - they are out there and hats off to them for quietly going about their family lives and not causing each other grief.

I agree with HolyG, if I am ever lucky enough to be a MIL I will NEVER treat them like I've been treated. My MIL has treated me and continues to treat me like I am a piece of dirt on the bottom of her shoe, like somehow me, my DC's and my family are subhuman not worthy of anything.

What goes around has not come around for her. She continues to live in the lap of luxury whilst DH and I are struggling, DH's job has gone from bad to worse, we're having to sell things just to raise enough money to pay our rent, we can't afford to even buy DC's a school uniform unless we forego paying other bills. Life is so fair isn't it?

How would you cope with someone, for example, who believes they should be able to come round uninvited to your house at any time at all, for as long as they like whenever they please?

And gets extremely angry when you say that you will decide when you would like visitors? Angry because she is the mother and should be able to do what she likes in other people's houses and with their children?

Or someone who gets very angry about her nephew staying in 5* hotels or having nice cars when he "only lives in a flat, not a house and should be having more than one child,"

Just curious because it must be all the wicked DILs fault.

My MIL has her good points, but it is all done to her agenda, never dh's, or mine, or our kids.

Biggest example - I was 35 weeks pg with dc3 when dh'd Grandma (MILs mother) died aged 90 after a long illness. I had had a ghastly pregnancy, 10 hospitalisations (I think - I lost count!), and was about to be transferred from our small rural hospital to a large teaching hospital as I had gone into prem labor, which they managed to stop, thank goodness!

When Grandma died, MIL was on the phone to dh, insisting that he went immediately several hundred miles away to help her with funeral arrangements, clearing out the house etc.

I was in hospital and could have given birth at any moment! We had 2 other dcs to consider. Yet MIl thought she took priority.

Dd2 was born 2 weeks later, and MIL turned up (all of a sudden able to do things liek arrange transport for a long trip etc) and expected to be treated like an hounoured guest.

Any time we have had issues with her (and I suspect that one of my threads was part of the trigger for this one - she left my daughters unattended in ehr house last weekend) it immediately turns into "but why are you being so horrible to me" or "you don't appreciate me".

Me me me me me.

I do appreciate that some people have to cope without mothers in law and that this can be hard, emotional, difficult.

But some mothers cannot let go of their sons, and my MIL hs a very hard time recognising that dh has other priorities apart from her - me, the children etc ....

Needless to say, dh didn't go to help out .....

My MIL is awesome. I have a much better relationship with her than with my own mum. She loves DD and DH so very much, I love sharing that with her. When we were really poor just before DD was born she sent boxes and boxes of toys, clothes and equipment. After DD was born and I was very socially isolated she called me every day to see how DD was doing and chat with me. She lives in another country and is therefore unable to offer childcare unless we are visiting, but when we are there she is always more than happy to look after DD. She continues to spoil all of us on a regular basis, and I am very grateful for all that she has done for us. I love her a great deal and am glad our relationship is so good.

But that's not to say the relationship is without it difficulties. She has absolutely no boundaries. Clearly defining and standing by these boundaries has led to some conflict.

The MIL/DIL relationship is considered to be the most challenging relationship in a family for a reason.

I can understand why someone who has lost their family would see posts about difficult MIL and feel they are ungrateful. I think that is missing the point. You will only hear about bad MIL's because good ones don't need advice. Just because your PIL's were great doesn't mean everyone elses are. Abusive PIL's are a reality and in those situations I do not think any PIL are better than none.

Attilathe meerkat. I think you are slightly missing the point about the need for MILS and DILS not to get into competition with each other. This is an issue about the dynamic between the 2 parties so you're comment"they still want to be No 1 in their son's life" only takes account of one side of things. BUT I do accept that there are some very badly behaved MILS about and it sounds like you have one.

I am a MIL and try hard always to keep the cart on the wheels with 1 tricky DIL (I have 2 lovely DILS) It is difficult when the grand children arrive. The thing is the birth of a child is a momentous occasion in a woman's life isn't it and what happens I think is that the birth of a grandchild re-awakens inthe MIL the feelings of her own newborn and she is following some kind of instint or maternal-like need to re-live it all. I have certaibly felt like this, but the thing is you have to realise that this is NOT your baby and it can't be like it was when you were a new mom. Sadly some women are not able to see this and become overbearing. SO I really don't think it's about "power and control" at all in most cases though I accept that it may look like that. As the child grows I think things improve as the granny settles down and can love her grandchildren in a normal way.

If you have a H who is "ruled" by his mother that must be v difficult and I'm sure must exacerbate your negative feelings towards your MIL. In fact it may be more about this than anything else.

Don't mean to offend and if your MIl is just an unpleasant control freak feel very sorry for you.

I don't think it is always about the relationship once the grandchildren have been born.

I do not have any DC's with my DH (DC's from previous marriage). I think in my MIL's case it was about control over DH. When DH and I first got together he used to spend a lot of time with me (we didn't live together then) and PIL's were in the process of moving house, so inevitably it meant that DH came to live with me. PIL (to be fair to MIL, FIL is just as bad) dangled a carrot in front of us. They offered to rent us a house right next door to thiers, in a fantastic location, really cheap rent so that we could save up for a deposit on our own house. Naturally we jumped at the chance. That is the moment when MIL changed and things went sour between us. Basically she (they) wanted DH as close as possible to them and MIL set out to do everything in her power to get rid of me.

Looking back on it now, I know that PIL never liked me they just did a good job at diguising it until the time was right, they had DH back with them and they could start their assault on me to get rid.

I'm just cross with myself for ignoring the warning signs. MIL would get stroppy with DH if he spent too much time with me, getting in a mood for no apparent reason so DH would spend hours with her trying to find out what was 'wrong', MIL would make DH feel really guilty for spending time with me referring to her cat as 'all I've got'. I had snide comments made to me when no one else was around to hear them, which DH didn't believe because he'd never seen that side of her. This was all before we moved next door to them so you can imagine what it was like once we did move!!

I hate to think what it would've been like if we had have had a baby because MIL hated any mention of us having DC's in the future.

NanaNina

Not offended at all. Am always glad to read other's viewpoints.

I wish I had a MIL like you cos I certainly would not give you any gip!!.

I would agree overall with your second paragraph but I would still argue that there are power and control issues behind some MIL's becoming overbearing when their first grandchild comes along. It may be so for the reason you describe (in that they want to relive their early parenthood) but not always. It is a character flaw that these difficult people have always had and I would certainly accept that not all MIL's and PIL's generally are as unreasonable to deal with (though in some cases where problems arise the FIL takes a backseat to the whole situation and thus plays the bystander role). People who are unreasonable and unameable to listen to reasoned argument tend to have always been unhappy, difficult and unreasonable to deal with.

I was writing both generally and with regards to my own self here (my MIL is a prime example of how not to behave as a MIL but then she is a closed book person anyway, not just to say a narcissist but that's another story entirely!). My H is not under his Mum's thumb at all - infact he has distanced himself from her, well both her and FIL infact (particularly him) as they're both emotionally dysfunctional in their own ways. Such people do not and never play by the "normal" rules governing family behaviour.

I think if a person is reasonable and healthy emotionally functioning anyway then there will be far fewer difficulties. It is when a person who is at heart dysfunctional and not healthy emotionally that problems can and do arise within families not just to say the MIL/DIL relationship.

I think that some mothers are just control freaks, it is in their nature. Parenting is about letting go, so that by the time your DC leaves home and has children you have completely let go, and are living your own life. You have to accept that their house is not an extension of yours, they may not be with the partner you choose, they may have a complete different belief system and very different views on bringing up DCS. I think that if you have done a good job your DC still wants to see you, as opposed to seeing it as a duty.
I can see people on mumsnet who will probably make poor MILs unless they do a better job of letting go-they are the ones who devote their lives to their DC, won't leave them with a babysitter,won't let them go away with the school, dictate what the DC is supposed to think etc etc.
They are the ones who will find it difficult when their DS meets a woman who has a mind of her own-which differs from MILs ideas.
I think a successful MIL needs to know when to be supportive and when to leave well alone! They need to respect boundries and personal space.

Spot on, piscesmoon.

I am so for your loss, you sound like you were very close to your parents/in laws and you sound like you were very appreciate of them all.

I wish that mine were at least resonable people, i could cope with some bitching and control freakery but not everyone is blessed with normal extended family relationships!

Many posters come here to vent about arse-hole partners and husbands and nobody seems to mind that much, some of us value the opportunity to let off steam- i would have lost it a bit if I didn't have others to chat to about my situation- it also makes me feel normal and not so victimised when I read other DIL's experiences.

I have such alot in common with Cocolepew- just to give you an idea, my in laws are crazy with jealousy and have tried so many ways to cause havoc to mine and dh's relationship- the lies, deceit and planning are staggering. If they were allowed unsupervised access to our children I am 100% certain they would come to deliberate harm.

My MIL even avoided coming abroad to my wedding and infomed me that at exactly 1pm (when we were walking down the aisle)she would self immolate as a protest.... I told her I'd buy her a packet of Swan vestas and left sharpish. Not surprisngly she did nothing of the sort. Oh and she also tried paying my dh to leave me- she still insists that he will leave when she remortgages her house for this purpose

It is really difficult not having that extra layer of support (my parents live abroad) that everyone around me has but I have no option and I know no different. I live for the day when we can move (very) far away.

I do when I hear posts complaining that a MIL hasn't bought the right kind of Brio bricks etc but I do think some people have such a hard time with their IL relationships that posting really helps to destress.

if we aren't going to whinge about family (especially in-laws) who are we going to whinge about?

Nananina - that is a very interesting point about how a MIL actually feels when a new GC comes along. I don't know as I don't have children yet, but maybe if more DILs realised that these feelings exist and are talked about, it could make things easier.

For the DIL to realise how the MIL feels and to make some sort of allowance for it. And also, like you say, for the MIL to realise that it is not her child and to try and not become overbearing.

It is really interesting to read your viewpoint, maybe too often we don't get to the point of actually discussing these things. Maybe it is all too often just seen as automatically interfering. I'm just speaking generally though, I know there are extreme cases where resolution is eons away.

How do we all go about being good MILs then, when that time arrives? I love my children so much. I am happy to know that one day my DCs will be adult and independent and moving on. And of course I want them to find a good long-term partner who will make them happy. I expect them to be living their own lives with very little input from me.

But I would be heart-broken if they wrote me out of their lives when they found a new partner. And I get the feeling that sometimes that is what the partners want - they think that 'they' are the family now and MIL is only tolerated under sufferance .

Megglevache OMG your MIL sounds so awful.

My MIL also tried to buy DH, DH refused to accept any money from them as he knew he would be 'in debt' to them for the rest of their lives. MIL also "developed" a potential heart condition, just about the same time that FIL "developed" something wrong with his leg so bad that it may have to have been "amputated". Two years on FIL is still walking about with both his legs and there is no major heart condition with MIL that we know of, but then MIL may have forgotten about that seeing as when she found out that DH was in touch with one of his cousins she suddenly had been in and out of hospital several times and drank wine all day due to having a nervous breakdown because DH doesn't want anything to do with her!! Funny how no one else in the family knew anything about it! Funny how the cousin MIL told the tale to lives 250 miles away and speaks occasionally on the phone to MIL and wouldn't know whether or not it is true.

I think these 'whinging' threads do help to de-stress. It certainly gives me somewhere to let out my frustrations about things.

Hi OrmIrian,

Re your comment below:-

"How do we all go about being good MILs then, when that time arrives? I love my children so much. I am happy to know that one day my DCs will be adult and independent and moving on. And of course I want them to find a good long-term partner who will make them happy. I expect them to be living their own lives with very little input from me".

Excellent!!. And chances are they will do. Can't imagine my own MIL saying something like that. If you are a kind and well adjusted adult now then chances are you will remain so when you become a grandparent. People who are nasty now don't get better with age in my experience and rarely if ever change.

You have a quality that the mal adjusted toxic people that are discussed on this site (and others) do not have - insight. These toxic people do not have this insight and care not a jot really for anyone except their own self and self interest. They will not take responsibility for their own actions, will quite happily blame others and never apologise.

From a DILs point of view - an ideal mIL would be this:

1. accepting that they done a good enough job of bringing up their child as to trust them to choose the right partner for themselves.
2. to not be judgmental.
3. to keep realistic expectations.
4. don't judge your DILs family because you are not perfect yourself.
5. talk about issues in the relationships, not just about how hurt you are and how everyone hurts you when all you have ever done is your best.
6. be happy for your son and DIL when they tell you things....for example if they buy a new sofa, plan a a holiday don't say "OOOhhh, that will be more money then" or "how much did that cost?". Positive comments will go a long way and the son/DIL will feel more able to confide/involve you, in future.

From a MILs point of view (this is guesswork as I am not a MIL)

1. be respectful and realise that this lady has brought up her son and now he is flying the nest/getting married/buying a house, it is hard for her to 'let go'.
2. Bear in mind that your MIL wants the best for her son, if she has misgivings, then to a point, it is your job to assure her that you know what you are doing (see point 6 above)
3. accept that sometimes she really is trying to help and is not just trying to interfere/make you look bad/undermine you.
4. appreciate that a MIL has a lot of years of experience, and although it may not agree with the way that you want to do things, just appreciate that it worked for her in the past.

I can't think of any more right now, maybe Nananina or anyone else could add??

i lost my mom when i was quite young and my dad last year and my mil is plain evil she only called me five days after my dad had died to say sorry.
i dont have support 24/7 but i try to cope as best as i can and she will only rest making my life hell when i am divorced from her son its better not to have her at all in my life.

Have MILs/PILs become more intrusive and controlling with the increase in nuclear families? What I mean is, if the PILs were very much Mum, Dad and 2.4 children could this increase the struggle when an 'outsider' i.e., a DIL arrives on the scene? I suppose that theory favours the power/control issue.

My MiL has three sons. I have four sons. My MiL has in the past been a fabulous, warm grandmother to my children, but she hates me. Not just me. She hates her two other DiLs too (and two ex-wives of two BiLs). She hates any woman that in her mind comes between her and her sons. She can't let go. My MiL actively seeks and then celebrates divorce as it allows her access to the grandchildren without their mothers, and thus an element of control. She is a player and manipulative. My MiL is now OUT of our lives and is also out of the lives of my two brothers-in-law and their children. Family harmony has improved and things have calmed down. I have tried very hard for 15 years with my MiL (dh fully appreciates how hard I tried) because she was good with the children and she is my husband's mother, but now dh and I have decided that no MiL is better than a toxic one. I lost my Dad very young, so know what that feels like too, but just because people are related does not mean they have automatic right to be part of my family..... and she has tried many times to destroy our family unit. We have chosen family harmony over MiL (and sadly by default FiL).

I will not make the same mistakes with my own sons.