Narsissistic personality disorder

[therealme]

I'm English, living overseas. I'm married for 17 yrs and most of that has been pretty awful. I recently 'came clean' about my abusive relationship with dh on a parenting site where I live and I have had my eyes opened for the first time that maybe it's not all my fault anymore. I have blamed myself for everything that has 'gone wrong' in my marriage - although I have genuinly messsed up on more than one occasion.

I received a lot of support from people but didn't believe I was worthy of it. Then somebody suggested I google Narsissistic Personality Disorder and that is the moment my whole world changed. For the very fist time I began to see that maybe it wasn't ME that might have all the problems. I saw my 'perfect' dh described in black and white and the words 'personality disorder' were attached to his behaviours. To say the ground shifted from under me would be an understatement.

So now I find myself at a turning point in my life. I know I have to end my marriage. It's emotionally, verbally and mentally abusive. I now recognise that I am a shell of the person that I once was, have had the life blood drained out of me, but still have enough of a spark in me to want to fight for some peace of life at 42! I have 3 children whom I love and adore - but who also love their Daddy. I'm living financially independently from my dh who refused to support me financially after ds 2 was born 6 yrs ago. I want him out of the house and out of my life!

I've made my mind up, but I am still so weak when it comes to taking action. I have spent so long living in a confused and guilt-ridden state, does that make sense?
Is there anybody out there who has experience of living with a narsissistic partner? How do you make the break? How do you ever find the strength to stand up to them in order that you might have some quality of life left for yourself? Please advise.....

Good for your solicitor. It's strange that there is no mention of his son. Surely he has some financial duty towards his child?

Nope. Not in his head. He has wiped us out completely.

Also amazingly kind of him to be "willing to undertake payment of her legal expenses", given that the court has ordered it 'n' all.

WOW. What a piece of bile UA. No mention of his son.

I am going to be a 'betting woman' and bet that you'll never get a RED cent out of this guy no matter what hoop you jump through.,,,

so with that harsh truth in mind, there really is no point doing anything other than what you want to say or do. There's no 'game', no line to tread carefully. He isn't hovering on the brink of doing the right thing!!

He lives on the other side of the World and he left the mother of his tiny child with no income, he stole from you both. He can't really sink any lower.

Oh yes, I recognise that comment about you still being angry - how bloody unreasonable of you! I also get the ' you're obviously still angry' line, suggesting you have the problem while he is ever so calm and reasonable about things....

I also like the reference to your backing him into a corner and it not helping you to reach 'peace of mind'. He is saying that he is absolutely ok about the split - has moved on - whilst you are still tormented and unable to let go. Well, of course, in his mind you are still rolling around pining for him, you will never get over him such was his charisma and magnetism. He is the centre of your universe still, isn't he?

He repeats that 'everything is negotiable' twice. Who is he trying to convince? Is it to come across as Mr Nice Guy to your solicitor? My ex is always harping on about 'recipriosity'. He made a point of saying it to my solicitor regarding access in that he would recipricate my flexibility or lack of. I think it is a subtle way of saying 'I will play ball with you so long as I get what I want. If you oppose me then I will make your life difficult. So let's negotiate'!!

Like the little comment about you getting his inheritence - how generous of him, what a saint.

TRM, in response to your question about timescales. I met my ex N and we were friends for three months - met via Internet dating which I initiated, partly because he wrote so well (he's a journalist). No picture.

My head was away before I actually ever knew what he looked like - he was funny, intelligent, we had so much in common yada yada yada. Looking back I was groomed but as I had first contacted him I felt responsible.

I remember the shock I felt when he sent me a photo - he was not attractive and I was not attracted to him. But then we started meeting for lunch, coffee, soon it was virtually every day (so far so familiar?). Then (still not sure how) we went to the US together for respective work trips. And there after some scary climbing in a National Park where he helped me down off a terrifying ridge, I kissed him.

Fast forward, within six months we had bought a house together in the country three hours away from our friends. Within six weeks I was pregnant (planned). Our baby was born the next summer but died from a rare illness at nine days. I was obviously never as upset as he was about this. Another planned pregnancy and our daughter was born 18 months later.

I wanted to leave him after 5-6 months, but stayed for over seven years and two planned pregnancies. I never even fancied him. Wtf is all that about?

UA, hard to know where to start on that e-mail but the tone and inference is just sooo familiar. It's quite amazing how unreasonable we all are.

I know this is a bit weird and I'm only even typing it cos I've had two g and ts. but, i've just pulled out my eyebrows because my x is cming tomorrow. I know they will gorw back, and I' amd kind of moussey it's not a big deal. I had a friend who used ot pull out her eyelashes. I am so annoyed with myself though. how completely booldy weird is that?! whole new thread i suspect.

he is playing games with my mum at the moment. she texted him to say where they'd meet. but he instantly texted back with a different suggestion, but one that is quite awkward and involves taking car seats etc...... my mum doesn't know what to do now. she doesn't want to handover car seats to him when he's got a hire car.

Queenofdenial, even though I dont' take responsibility for the awful way my x treated me,,, like you, I've done a bit of navel-gazing about why I got together with him. I think initially I showed a shy but handsome stranger a bit of kindness at a party and he really latched onto me. I have no idea why I let myself be sucked into a relationship with somebody so needy and controlling, when I think back to that time, I wasn't even lonely, I just thoguht, I'm 30, I should find somebody. I thought that because he was the first guy I'd met who wasn't commitment-shy that he was the one. What a huge mistake that was!!! I was so foolish, I recognise that now. I offered up my happiness to the altar of convention.. why? why?

He's going to be in the same country tomorrow and I'm drunk and pulling aout my eyebrows. how the hell do you cope TRM??!! serioudly, you are one strong woman.

but the good news is that after he goes, he probably won't come again until just before christmas.

Ah Maggie, you are literally pulling your hair out at the thoughts of him invading your territory.
But you don't have to have any contact with him, right? Won't have to see or speak to him, tg for your lovely Mum doing the hand-overs.
Take yourself off for a child-free day of frivolous shopping (after you've penciled in some eye brows first of course!). Buy something irrelevent and useless for yourself just because you can, something that you won't have to justify to anybody.

Tomorrow night I will be at my ex mil's 70th birthday party. It's a big organised bash in a hotel with all the extended family - including my ex h. I wasn't going to go, was just going to allow ex to take the dc, but my mil, who has always been fair and decent to me, rang and asked me to go. I squirmed about it a lot, but then thought 'right! I'm going to go, and I'm going to do it with my head held high'
I have bought a little black dress, 2 sizes smaller then the last frock I needed to buy! some killer heels and jewellery. I have smothered my self in fake tan and coloured my hair which will be straightened to within an inch of its life tomorrow.
No matter who is there or what 'gossip' has done the rounds, I will be making a statement tomorrow night - that therealme is now emerging and she is no longer a fat frumpy doormat.
I just hope to god I don't fall on my arse trying to walk across the bloody dance floor!

TRM, I'll bet you look good tonight.

Maggiemonday, that thing about commitment and the altar of convention strikes a chord. I was early 30s, not lonely per se but was at the stage where I wanted commitment. I wonder how many of us got suckered in because of the stages we were at in our lives. It would be interesting to know how the rest of you got involved and why - slight navel gazing I know, I just feel puzzled at the moment as to why I let it happen.

It happened to me because, when I met my N husband, I had already been in an abusive relationship and was, therefore, not mentally in a good place when I met him. My husband mirrored my traits - ie kind, pleasant, good-hearted and presented himself as a really sweet, loving man. He seemed like a knight in shining armour! He sucked me in with this behaviour - we got married and he started showing the real person he was. The abuse and the N behaviour started and it was years before I realised and learnt what had happened to me. I am sure looking back now to when we were dating that there were signs to his personality and the way he thought, and now looking back I can remember many instances which now that I am well informed about all this, I could identify - but I would not have picked up on them at the time as they were disguised amongst the good bits and I was very much in love with him.

Maggy, you have a friend who used to pull out her eyelashes? Either you know me, or at last it appears I'm not the only one! It's a gross habit, it makes me look horrible (have half bald eyes!), and on top of that it hurts - so don't ask me why, but when I get stressed, out they come. It's like a cockatoo plucking its feathers. Comfort yourself with the thought that it's the most intelligent, sensitive creatures that do this!

TRM, have a good time tonight. You deserve to hold your head up so high your neck aches!

You ended a marraige that wasn't working. There's no shame in that. I know his family will all be predisposed to thinking fairly well of him, but even so.. anybody can end a marriage if they're not happy.

Anniegetyourgun, I think there are at least two people who pull out their eyelashes then, as the girl I knwo who does it doesn't have children (presuming you do as you're on MN). She doesn't just do it sometimes, she does it all the time, and has to paint in a thin grey line around her eyes. Weirdly, she grew up down the road from me! so, that's two on our road. Must be something in the air 'round here. Either that or it's not actually as rare as you think. I only do the eyebrow thing very occasionally. The last time I did it was the last time he came I'm sure.

I wore a hat today and it covered the mis-matched eyebrows. One is patchier than the other. I dont want to try and even them up though. That might reinforce the habit. And it's not a habit. It just happens very occasionally. I must stop myself next time. I knew I was doing it and I knew I would end up looking odd, and I just kept on doing it.

Queenofdenial, Although I know I'm lucky that I had a happy childhood and two parents who loved eachother and me,,, it does make me even more disappointed in myself that I stumbled into such a toxic relationship. I really had NO excuse. I was loved and encouraged. I am clutching at straws here, but the only thing I can think of here is that my parents were/are fairly conventional. inc my cousins. All went to uni, got good job, met 'the one', he popped the question 18 months later..... The ONLY 'excuse' I can find to excuse myself getting involved with my x is that I was embarrassed that my life hadn't followed the same conventionally successful blue print as theirs. I should have been braver and more confident about not conforming exactly. I was too concerned with how my life looked like from the outside. But you live and learn, and I have learnt luckily.

It's nearing the time when x should meet my Mum in town with the children. Yes, TRM I am so lucky, I don't have to see him TG. Although he did ring the house for some reason when it wasn't necessary. I just put the phone right down. He is to communicate with my mother, not me. That's the deal.

Earlier today I went to look at a two bed apartment in a new development about 30 mins walk away. NOT only can I not afford it, even though they are quite reasonably priced now! but the three of us would be bursting out of it. But it was fun mooching around a development and looking at the floorplans and specs etc! I enjoyed it. Saddo I am!

Maggie, I'd say looking at the apartment was your little inner voice telling you that you can do as you please, move where you want and just make any decisions you pease about your future now. And what is more, your ex doesn't have to know, he has no say in how you run your life now.
How were your dc this morning going off to see their Dad? Will you get any 'acting out' when they return home?

I had an interesting email from my ex this morning. Yes, another one. He is really spooked by my copy and paste bit about gaslighting the other day. He really is indignant that I have the audacity to accuse him of being an 'abuser'. He suggests I find a facilitator through which he can answer these 'allegations' made by me, says he doesn't mind if I bring support, such is his delusion belief that he is innocent.

Furthermore he says he is sending my gaslighting email to his solicitor (he sends ALL my emails to them) and makes the odd comment "I don't know what you have said to my barrister about me". Oh yes, and he would welcome the opportunity to talk to Womens Aid....??
I can picture him now dressed in his best designer suit, speaking in his controlled hushed tones to W A, telling them how they are responsible for putting ideas into my head, for emasculating the male population in general and have serious man hating issues that make them biased when giving advice to women. You think I am joking? You don't know my ex!!

TRM yes, looking at the apartment was like a little springboard for future plans. I felt like one day... 2 years ago I would have felt like such a fraud looking around an apt.. Ok, I still haven't got a job

The children are back now and they're fine. He bought them each a tiny, tiny prsent. My son got a tiny car, and my daughter a bit of playdough. He makes me laugh with his incredible meanness. At least I don't worry about him buying their affections!

Your x is unbelievable! Trying to control everybody else's reaction to his behaviour.

Why on earth does he think you should give him the opportunity to pick apart your opinions about his gaslighting?? It's not a conviction!! It's your view of what happened! Your perspective.

But in his distorted frame of mind there is no perspective other than his own, so you're not allowed to have your own perspective. This is very familiar to me.

Also, of what practical benefit could it be to your x to restore his good name to WA!!??? Does it matter, in any legal capacity now? Or does he know any of them through work?! It's such a neediness in him.. His behaviour is appalling but he can't tolerate anybody thinking badly of him!

Well, suck it up buddy, if you act like a bully for 17 years that's the fallout.

This is such unbelievable control freakery isn't it? I'd let him have the rope to hang himself. WA have seen it all before. My x also speaks very calmly and well. He comes across as very intelligent, calm, reasonable. It takes a long time for people to see another side.

Today, when my mum got back from dropping the children off at the meeting place, my mum said to me Michele was there with her family. Just a woman I know. Her children are at the school. I know she knows that my x was verbally and physically abusive, but I bet she looked at him today, and thought butter would NOT melt in his mouth. He looks like such a new man guardian-reading Dad of the year.

Isn't that the hardest thing to reconcile though? That these men present such a different face to the world in general compared to the way they behave towards their wives?
To meet my ex you would think he was charm personified. He is scarily calm, uber controlled, NEVER gets into a fluster about anything. He is always the first person you would think of turning to in a crisis, Mr Cool, calm and collected. He is intelligent, good looking and meticulous about his appearance (I DO NOT miss the ear hair shaving days, oh god, the thoughts of it!!) He works in the 'caring profession', has a wide knowledge of therapy and behaviourism and is always, always polite and well mannered to those around him.
Except, of course, to me

It was such a shock to finally learn this Summer that it wasn't just me; that others thought his behaviour wrong too.
I find it a relief to talk about it on here because who else do I tell? Who else would actually believe me?!

Oh well better go and put my face on for tonights 'do'. At least I can get ready at leisure and not have to report to the front door by 2000 hours precisely, or else 'there will be consequences!!'

My husband is exactly like that. He is charming, friendly, kind and is everyone else's best friend and people think he is a really good man. He will help anyone other than his own wife in life and he has only ever let his public mask slip once to some of our mutual friends once many years ago. It is very frustrating that everything is twisted and that he comes across as very credible and I am pretty sure that some people think that I am crazy. He has often, over the years, fed me comments about what people have said about me, eroding my self-esteem, and making me feel uncomfortable around particular people. Quite isolating. So - good luck to you and have a nice time.

I'm sure you're gone by now, but apart from the fact the my x works in finance that description is him to a T.

I am the only person who has ever been on the receiving end of his screaming and ranting. Nobody else was close enough to him to be inadvertently controlled by avoiding his bad moods, or to be affected by not having his approval.

But even though it is ONLY me, I still know it WASN'T me. I know he is basically a very screwed up unhappy man. Being an arsehole to me was his coping mechanism. And during those 8 years he bought a house, got several promotions, the respect of bosses, colleagues, clients.... he managed that because for the first time he had somebody at home to crush. What kind of person gets their 'energy' from crushing another person?

Report back tomorrow, let us know how the xmil's 70th went! I hope his relatives are mature enough not to 'need' to take a side.

Good luck.

We are clearly all dealing with the same man, ladies. Mine is in the legal business though. Very cool and calm, and always able to find the right word. After a whie of dealing with him I realised he was in complete control of himself, even at the times he was raging at me at full sail, eyes popping out of his head, fists clenched, face white with anger, little flecks of spit flying out of his mouth. The only thing that he didn't bother controlling was how his practice went and how much money he could make. He was unable to work with others (nobody did any work except him, everyone he ever worked with was lazy and dishonest..) so going it alone was the only other option, and making money was not a priority with him. He was happy to live on handouts from his parents while keeping me completely in the dark about his business finances. They threw this in my face when the s**t hit the fan, which is how I found out that his 'work' had actually been nothing but posturing, taking on cases that made him feel like some kind of saint, while ignoring the fact that they couldn't pay.

Maggie, your remark about being so concerned about how your life looked from the outside rang a bell with me. I think that is what did me in early on in my relationship with my ex. He proposed within six months of starting to date and I was happy to have that big question settled . Found out later he probably didn't even fancy me half as much as he said he did -- judging by the material I found on the computer in the final stage of our 'marriage', as well as a few other indicators, he actually prefers men. And he is so mean with the children's presents it takes my breath away. He always was. But he never blinked when it came to buying beer.

TRM, your ex's attempts to set he record straight are so pathetic and almost funny, seeing as he's so completely serious about defending his pov. Mine hasn't said a word to any of the neighbours since he left; I think he knows I trashed him told them all everything. One in particular was out in the front with her children and my younger ones the day I finally called the police on him after he attacked me, so she saw the car pull up and the officers going in to my house. I really wished at the time that they would send unmarked cars to dv calls. One of my biggest fears about calling the police had been "what will the neighbours think?"

Oldest DD found e-mails of his to his friends and colleagues telling them how he feared to go home because he was sure I would have changed the locks and made made him homeless. He was clearly bad-mouthing me to anyone who could listen. I hope all those people weren't as stupid as he thought they were, but there's a part of that doesn't care. I'm more concerned with the impact the e-mails had on DD.

So glad your DCs came back safe and sound, Maggie. Maybe your x's meanness means he couldn't be bothered whisking them off, since he knows how much they would drain his wallet?

TRM have a great night, hold your head high.

I am still in a marriage after ten years with my N husband - even though, two years after we married, I was told by a friend of my h's how he had been talking about me, behind my back to him. I felt like my heart was broken at that time as he had been saying how he didn't love me, didn't want to be with me, didn't fancy me (he is 10 years younger than me and has always used this as one of many weapons against me - like they always do), how he had to have sex with me once every six weeks just to placate me etc. etc. I felt completely deluded as, whilst talking like this to other people, he was leaving me things like love notes in the kitchen before he went to work saying how much he loved me!!!!!!!!!!!!! He has really messed my head up over the years. He, too, is an alcoholic - a functioning one - he has a good job and makes alot of money, and yet there has never even been a family holiday. However, the only time he cannot control himself emotionally is regarding money - he has no care or regard for any other human being and can easily disregard our two dc.

Autumn, that's interesting and familiar about the money thing. My ex, as I've said, had complete robotic control over every aspect of his life, but where money was concerned he was a loose cannon. He simply cannot hang on to money, has spent it all, and mine, in droves.

In the past we had been up to our necks in debt but still he spent money like water. Anything he wanted he got! There was a large degree of instant gratification going on where he would buy things to make himself temporarily happy. He took loan after loan out, had me do the same too.
Like you, we never had a family holiday. We had one, old banger of a car, that I ran and covered all costs for tax, ins, petrol etc.
He will order things like clothes online, try them on, decide he didn't like them, then bin them. There was shocking waste.

Anyhow, I survived the family party on Sat night! Stayed upright in my heels and even got on the dance floor. The dc had a great time, I think my 4yo dd is a 'dancing queen' in the making!
I spoke to extended family - some of them made a point of coming over to talk to me which told me they were showing no ill feeling, I was touched. My sil and bil made a point of telling me they would text me to arrange a date to bring the dc over so the cousins could play. I am so relieved that I haven't been vilified by his family. I have not spoken to them at all about my reasons for separating from h, although they must have known about the court hearing. It is possible after all that they are willing to accept that I had legitimate reasons for getting a safety order. Maybe they suspected more then they let on? That is the thing about his family, they all have their private thoughts about what is really going on - but no one would ever dream about saying it out loud. I am pretty sure my mil endured a relationship much like my own, but I will never know for sure because she would never tell. I'm glad I broke the mould.

MM, it's great that you have a good family! I don't suppose you or anyone else (probably including my mother) could think that a man could be so utterly vile.

My dad's a priest. Funny how so many of these Ns are 'pillars of the community'. I rather expect Harold Shipman was too, when he wasn't killing people.

TRM, I don't think his family would have vilified you anyway. They probably all think he's an arse. Turn it around, maybe they have been friendly with him over the years because it's actually you (and DC) they like.

Thanks Queen, you just made my morning!

Hi therealme, I'm happy you had a great night with your inlaws - attagirl!

I'm still not really sure whether to call my ex an N - I suppose the label doesn't really matter. But so much of what you all describe here is familiar. Oh, the instant gratification of buying himself whatever he wanted, regardless of our finances. We had set aside some money to pay off his credit card debts, but he used some of it to buy a bike and a keyboard for himself, and I used some to pay our council tax and for a trip we were both taking. Oh, the ranting and raving at me because there was less left for his credit card debts!

As for the food thing - last Valentine's day, we were in a hotel and I was sinking my teeth into a sausage (hello, Mr Freud!) when he said with great intensity "I hate you". And then he was angry at me for crying in public and making him look bad. So often he would be vicious to me in private and then be affectionate in public and furious because I couldn't suddenly switch off the upset and act happy.

Trivial anecdotes - he's obviously done a lot worse, things that I'm sorry my DD was exposed to. You do have to go over and over this stuff as part of the healing process - you re-evaluate everything. It's quite an eye-opener, when see how skewed your sense of normality was. And by "you" I mean me...