Narsissistic personality disorder

[therealme]

I'm English, living overseas. I'm married for 17 yrs and most of that has been pretty awful. I recently 'came clean' about my abusive relationship with dh on a parenting site where I live and I have had my eyes opened for the first time that maybe it's not all my fault anymore. I have blamed myself for everything that has 'gone wrong' in my marriage - although I have genuinly messsed up on more than one occasion.

I received a lot of support from people but didn't believe I was worthy of it. Then somebody suggested I google Narsissistic Personality Disorder and that is the moment my whole world changed. For the very fist time I began to see that maybe it wasn't ME that might have all the problems. I saw my 'perfect' dh described in black and white and the words 'personality disorder' were attached to his behaviours. To say the ground shifted from under me would be an understatement.

So now I find myself at a turning point in my life. I know I have to end my marriage. It's emotionally, verbally and mentally abusive. I now recognise that I am a shell of the person that I once was, have had the life blood drained out of me, but still have enough of a spark in me to want to fight for some peace of life at 42! I have 3 children whom I love and adore - but who also love their Daddy. I'm living financially independently from my dh who refused to support me financially after ds 2 was born 6 yrs ago. I want him out of the house and out of my life!

I've made my mind up, but I am still so weak when it comes to taking action. I have spent so long living in a confused and guilt-ridden state, does that make sense?
Is there anybody out there who has experience of living with a narsissistic partner? How do you make the break? How do you ever find the strength to stand up to them in order that you might have some quality of life left for yourself? Please advise.....

Math, thank you I have my local number. If only I had been on MN then, I so needed this support during that time. Feel I am doing this too late somehow.....

Never too late as long as you have a pulse.

I have just put my 3 dc asleep in my bed tonight.
My 6yo sobbed his eyes out having given me a list of everything that was awful about his life - ranging from fights with his brother to not getting to re visit places he liked going to.
It took me awhile to realise that it wasn't any one 'thing' that was wrong; just that he was badly shaken up by the recent turmoil of what we have all been through. But to hear your 6yo say that he wanted to kill himself but didn't know how was heartbreaking.

The fall out from my split with my ex is starting to show. I thought I was holding things together ok - perhaps I'm not?
The future is a scary place, I feel very alone. The responsibility of lone parenting sits heavily on my shoulders without support or any understanding from my ex - he now has his life free from any of the hassle of childrearing, can get his head space all of the time now, just as he argued he 'needed' it whilst we were together.

He will fall asleep tonight as he always did, doing his own thing and slotting his kids in to a section of his life that need not be thought about until Tuesday at half four. I on the other hand am sitting here fretting about how I will get my 6yo up for school at 7 tomorrow...

He will attend his therapy session tomorrow and spew shite about what an awful wife I was to live with. How I 'refused' to go back to work and left him with no option but to keep all his money to himself. How I took him to court and reduced him to 'agreeing' to a Safety Order even though he was the wronged party and really had no memory of ever being violent, surely this was exaggerated on my part? That I abused him by emasculating him, was passive aggressive, never did what I said I would, and by separating from him had taken his dc away from him.

He surely has quite a list of complaints about me. I have heard them all, they were repeatedly chanted throughout my 17 year marriage. But his wrong doings? Not at all, he works with young people in care ffs, he is in a caring profession, he can justify ALL of his actions, he has carefully pre thought out a 'get out' clause for anything and everything he ever did or said. It is me that is mad, I even spent 2 weeks in a psychiatric hospital...He on the other hand NEVER lost control.

Ah feck it. I'm stopping here. Winding myself up now.
Very upset about my little boy. Feeling the enormity of having to survive on my own and make things right for my dc.
Can't see beyond one day into the next and feel like I am swimming in circles.
I have lost my focus in life - it used to be about surviving life with my ex. Now he is gone I don't know what my role in life is anymore?
Will it ever get better? Help me someone please!

The realme, all these things you are feeling and fretting about are quite normal. It is a very good sign that your little boy is able to openly talk to you about his feelings.

He has possibly herd his stupid father talk about 'killing himself' and has just picked up on the idea - he will have no real understanding about what it means. He is unburdening himself to you and all you can do is hold him close, listen, reassure him and tell him that his life is going to be fine. Can you let his school know what he has been saying so that they can show him a lot of support and encouragement?

You have been holding things together. Remarkably well. Yes the future seems scary and the responsibility seems enormous. This is because you have a genuine sense of responsibility - not a fake outward show of it like your NH.

Calm down. Your bitter feelings about your ex will fade with time.

But remember - he is not living a jolly life. He is living a half life or no life at all really. They are automatons seeing life and events through a prism of their own selves as in: 'What is in this for me? What role can I play-act now to garner sympathy or admiration or respect blah blah?.'

They don't have the pleasure of having deep human emotions (be they good or bad, feeling - really feeling - is what it means to be human after all)

Let him say whatever the hell he wants to his therapist. He will think the therapist is bloody useless anyway and will stop going very quickly. It is just for show again. 'Poor me, my bitch of an ex has driven me to therapy.' He will try to manipulate the therapist.

None of it matters to you right now (or ever) because as you say, you have your own life to re-arrange and get some laughter and focus back into. It has only been 10 weeks my love. This is bugger all. It is a nano second. The fact is yu are still standing, your dcs are secure with you (ie your lo opening up to you and crying.)

Tee is fall-out from this shit - bt there wold be fall-out even if there weren't the added complications of a lying, twisting N in the picture. Just keep going.

Perhaps you can join an art class of some sort? I did art and pottery classes when I first hit depression and stopped working (which is when my exnh started the devaluation phase - I was no longer a 'prize' in his eyes, just a flawed ill person who he was totally unable to help or support. Twat)

By the way, I spent a couple of nights on the nut ward while I was with him too. He drove me to attempt an overdose but when he turned up to 'visit' me he looked like a ghost in shock. And guess what? When I had to go back and see the psych team after he finally ran away, they mentioned how oddly he had behaved back then...how he didn't seem to understand or care what about what I was going through.

So they saw right through him. This gave me enormous comfort.

You are not mad my love. You have been made to 'think' you are mad and crap. Gaslighting. Manipulation. All the other key words...he has done a really good number on you! But you will get over this. It is going to take time and a lot of healing.

But you are a bright, caring and loving woman. You have been abused.
Have you read the Lundy Bancroft book 'Why does he do that'? I m reading it right now and it is really brilliant.

try to lighten the mood with your dcs...take them to a castle or for a trot on a horse. Buy a puppy.

You will get there. You are doing just fine.

Brill post UA! As usual!

I second the puppy idea! Nothing like it to cheer everyone up!

The key is little steps and little treats. It doesn't have to be anything very expensive...just a little treat everyday for all of you. Something that you can all look forward to each day.

Even if it's just kicking up the leaves in the park with an ice-cream......bring joy back into your lives.

It soon becomes a habit!

xxxx

I agree that 10 weeks isn't long and it's not surprising to feel like this, TRM. You and your dc have so many good times ahead of you now that you're free. You're on your way there.

yes, ten weeks isn't long. I was still being hit by that tidal wave of responsibility for about a year after I split up. It would hit me suddenly and I would feel so overwhelmed.

But it's not going ot be harder than it would have beeen with him. It'll be easier, it's just coping with the injustice of it all...

It is good that your son can talk to you.. the puppy would be a great idea if you could manage it! if it's just one more thing to look after, then maybe wait a while. But it would be your 'new' family dog. You could choose the name and your x wouldn't have a say in that... the dog would always be wary of him

We've just been adopted by a stray cat and both my daughter and I love having her around, would definitely recommend it.

WA have given me local contacts for therapsist. It's £40 a session and I plan to see a 'proper' therapist as I really do believe I have PTSD and counselling isn't quite going to hack it.

I'm currently struggling with flashbacks, especially around sex and violence. Any recommendations on how to deal with half-remembered things at three in the morning?

That is what happened to me queenofdenial. things started coming back to me over the next year. Like one day, I just "remembered" that on top of everything else, he'd tried to strangle me, well, he stopped squeezing before he killed me, so it was terrifying. I'd blocked it out!

I do wish I'd had proper therapy. Although I spoke to one gp who fancied herself as a counsellor, she seemed obssessed with the fact that I lived with my parents and had no job/career as thought THAT was my problem. I was also in PTSD, and needed to fix that first before taking on more stress. She just didn't get it. If I'd found somebody who got it, it would have been such a release though. It would have speeded things up.

Oh Unlikely thank you for those words! This thread has been my lifeline. Nobody else gets it, nobody else in my real world had to live with it.

I have calmed down. I spoke to ds's teacher this morning and she had him on her 'special table' all day, next to her. She let him go to the sensory room when he needed a break and now that he is home he is munching his way through his Halloween treats - all of them, I'm turning a blind eye!

My sil sent me an email today and said some lovely things about me. It made me bawl my eyes out and I felt a lot better afterwards
I have been trying to get the Lundy Bancroft book for a while, but impossible to be had in Ireland. Anyhow, my brother found it on ebay and has bought it for me so I am eagerly awaiting its arrival. I have seen it mentioned a few times on here so am looking forward to reading it.

I'm sure I will look back on this period of my life in a few years time and remember it all as a 'fog'. The pressure I am putting myself under right now to cope is probably unrealistic. It's the result of having had to live up to my ex's unobtainable standards for years, failing miserably, and then feeling the guilt. Brainwashing; it's a hard thing to reverse.

You can ask on the phone when you investigate counselors and therapists what sort of experience they have dealing with exactly the problems you have. Some have more experience in certain areas than others. You wouldn't go to a cardiologist for prenatal care, and you can end up wasting a lot of time and money finding out that your therapist is better with recovering alcoholics or problems relating to potty training back in 1973 than recovering after being on the receiving end of an abusive intimate relationship.

TRM, take it one day at a time. Everything you feel shows you are a great mother and a real grown up, iyswim. And the fact that your DCs come to you and pour out their hearts to you is a measure of the high esteem in which they hold you. The ex, on the other hand, is a joke as a parent.

I think you can trust his counselor to see right through the bs he is spinning. If someone goes to session after session and just ladles out the same old same old about the b and what a cow she was/is, and doesn't seem to have a tither of self awareness or desire to gain insight into how things really happened up to this point in his life, the therapist will quickly understand precisely what she is dealing with. Best to leave him to it, and try not to get wound up about it, although this is very hard, because there's a lot of anger to deal with. Anger is healthy, and in time (more time than ten weeks) it will fade a bit. Try not to let the anger keep you up at night -- get enough rest and a little exercise, and take care of yourself and the DCs well.

Take it all one day at a time and don't let yourself get snowed under by looking too much at the big picture. You can get through each hour, each day. Try to accept there are some things you can do nothing about right now. Be kind to yourself xxxx

Math, do you think a counsellor can penetrate (even partially) the forcefield of denial of a man like this??

I look back on the first 6-10 months and it is kind of dream-like now. I was functioning with permanently high adrenaline and reined-in anxiety.

That heightened sense of anxiety, responsibility etc... it does start to wind down..

I agree, be good to yourself

mx

ps, Math, that's good advice about not looking tooo much at the bigger picture. I get all caught up in what's going to happen five years down the line. I'm trying to inject a bit of balance now. Have plans and goals of course, but to not get too obsessed with how things are going to pan out in the future. Not to 'live for now' but live in the now. Iykwim.

That sense of responsibility is heavy alright, but as UA said, it's because it's real and it's genuine. At least our children all have one parent who genuinely feels this.

Maybe I was lucky to have experienced a few sessions with a counsellor who 'got it'. ExH went to see her first and did a few sessions. He had been nagging me for years to 'get myself fixed', because in his mind I was the one with all the problems and everything would be perfect if only I would recognise how much of a sicko I was and get the help I so obviously needed.... Well, after Ex had been hospitalised with major depression (including threats of suicide), he started seeing the psychiatrist as an outpatient, and also this therapist.

I finally made an appointment with her, under pressure from ex, and told her the story of my life up to that point. During the very first session, she characterised my Ex as a 'very angry man' and urged me to plan a safe exit. We talked about boosting my self esteem and how I could help the children. She urged me to do little things like getting a bit of exercise and doing some things for myself like putting on a bit of nail polish. She also refused to take Ex for any more appointments. I can't tell you how validated I felt, and how much it did for me to have someone believe me and take it seriously.

In the case of someone with NPD going to therapy, a lot depends on the therapist, and Ns are very wily. But you can't fool all of the people all of the time. People express themselves with a lot more than words. Plus, after a while they will repeat themselves and start to sound like a broken record with the same old 'woe is me' tune playing just a bit too much. You can count on just about anyone to go a bit too far or overdo it. And if someone goes to therapy and sits there blaming someone else for everything that's gone wrong, that's something a therapist would notice.

Someone with NPD is not going to make any therapeutic progress unless the therapy is specifically targeted at their disorder, which would mean the therapist would have correctly diagnosed it. If the therapist doesn't diagnose it, he or she will eventually get very frustrated and perhaps refer him on to someone else.

Since TRM's ex works with children in care, ( ) he may know a lot of the jargon and seek to impress the therapist with his glib use of appropriate phrases, but any therapist worth their salt would see through that also. Funny that he's in that area. I assume it's for the ego trip he gets from being such a do-gooder. A therapist would probably see the Jesus complex or whatever else there is there too.

Whether the therapist gets through to him or not -- who can tell. I believe NPD is very hard to tackle because of the forcefield of denial. My ex changed psychiatrists, for reasons I will never know, but I have my suspicions. He usually gets into fights over bills with people he is paying for services like this, and that's the usual pretext for discontinuing the relationship.

I have tried hard to get past the point of analysing my ex's mental and emotional state, and I was glad to recently realise I have come quite a distance on this score, because I find it so draining, and focusing on him so much just perpetuates the hold he has over me. But I know it has taken time just to get to this point, and I don't think this is the end of the journey for me. I still dread seeing he has sent an e-mail, and I never relax while on the phone with him. He does little things that are very annoying, like addressing post to me using my maiden name (which is different from the children's surname). It would be a far simpler matter without the children, but I would never send them back. I know I have to do my best for me and for them. Ex is out of my hands now, and whatever he chooses to tell the psych doc is fine with me. He's paying for his hourly sessions, not me.

OMG, I really ran away with that post -- medals will be awarded to anyone who gets through it.

I actually spend surprisingly little time thinking about how my ex's mind works. I don't know if that's because I'm still in shock, as I didn't even realise what was gong on until this summer.

My training in psychology tells me that people with PDs are not amenable to change because they lack the fundamental insight into their behaviours and the ability to empathise with others. We actually tended to discharge people we diagnosed as PDs or what used to be called sociopathic tendencies or psychopathic.

I'm more interested in therapy to help me, but very scared about it at the same time. Which is partly why I've had the details about therapists for two weeks now but they're still sitting there. Maggiemonday, thank you for your post because that is exactly what happened to me about ten days ago. I woke up at about three in the morning from a very vivid memory/dream of 'him' holding me down and also his hands around my neck whilst raping me.

Part of me wonders if it was just my imagination, but I also know that every time I've thought I've been over-reacting in this process, it's all been true and them some. I think that's how I've progressed from such denial, to finding out about emotional abuse and now I'm here on the NPD thread.

Must be a night for long posts, I've done it as well!

WEll, Math I got right to the end of the post, it was very interesting. I wish I'd seen somebody who 'got it'.

I think I'm 90% there now, but so I should be really as it's 2 yrs and 4 months since I left.

Most of the time I don't give him too much thought at all, except when I'm on 'tinternet' but that is a valve. It's not picking it all open. It's helping to file it. So that's good, definitely good.

Queenofdenial, yes, we become 'collaborators' or enablers of the denial I think. Because these guys, instead of apologising for what they did or trying to excuse it, htey just make out that your are insane to have a problem with it, and they keep it up relentlessly. Eventually you think, am I the one making all the fuss. But then, when I occasionally wondered that even after I'd left, I would read the list of things that constitute abuse and remember that he did everything on the list.

My children's Dad is coming on saturday. I'm dreading it. I always dread it. It makes me so tense and I never relax 'til he's gone back to the UK.

I don't know how you all cope, living in the same country. I need that sea between us.

Unlikelyamazonian, I have just read your post re Therealme's ex and how hislife is just an act, etc.

I dscribe my ex like this and how he doesn't re't ally 'love', but just loves what is the best option at any given time.

I had to play bad cop with the dc all the way through the marriage as he refused any other role than 'darling daddy'.

He favours dd1 and I worry so much about dd2 when she is with them. She is 7 and wet herself on Saturday night as he refused to take her to the toilet at a Halloween party.

Since X Factor began, she has watched it in her bedroom whilst the rest of them watch it downstairs........

She suffered the most during the break up as she was only 2 when the bad times started and we didn't get away until she was 6. She has had problems at school and does not make friends easily.

They still seem to think the sun shines out of his arse though. They cannot see he is acting obviously. God, this is such a relief....... but am I just dredging up the past? I

Cahu, keep on dredging. It helped me so much to put it all in words and be understood by people who didn't try to tell me I was crazy.

Haven't time to write a proper post right now as about to wake the dc for school.
Last nights access visit between ex N and kids was a diaster though. I had to collect ds1 early following a call from mil to say he was 'very upset and angry'.
On getting him home he explained that he had asked his Dad why he has broken and smashed things in the house and as a reply his Dad had told him it was not true. To put the knife in, he then told ds, who is 11, that his Mum had had a boyfriend while he was at work and had wanted to kill herself after he was born.

I spent some time with my boy and talked to him about emotional abuse, what I had learned this Summer and my Safety Order from court. Difficult to try to explain to a child with Aspergers, but when he got the ice cream and two spoons out for us I think he was showing he understood.

Anyhow, he is still very angry, says he doesn't want to see or speak to his Dad again. He is confused and hurt but I will look after him today.

My ex is still causing damage and I realise this probably will be the way of it now. My battle to leave him might be over but this bloody war isn't.

oh the poor little guy...

Does your mil see what's really going on? or even the half of it?? could she talk to her son and tell him to rant and rave somewhere else??

I hope your x gets a new gf soon. God love her, but it'll give him a new focus. Would you still rule out ever returning to uk?

I am new to posting on Mumsnet after following various threads for quite a while. I,too, have been in an unhappy, abusive marriage for ten years with an NPD. I do not wish to continue in my marriage and am also trying to and find a way out and am finding mumsnet very supportive.

Hello Autumnlight and welcome...

I too am relatively new and in the same position as you. We all seem to find our own ways, but this is very gentle place to hang out whilst you find your right way and right time.

You might find it cathartic to write your story in a separate post - I know I did, also all the responses really helped me form an objective opinion rather than worrying over whether it was 'me' or 'him'...

Facing up to reality is a very positive move..maybe the first small step to a better future.

We're all here if you need to 'talk'.

TRM, is there any way for you to petition for supervised visits? Or have the visits curtailed altogether? I would go right to your solicitor and see what can be done. Can you get your poor DS to see a counsellor -- maybe through the school?

My divorce agreement spells out that neither of us can badmouth the other in any way to the children or within earshot of the children, and that we are obliged to keep other people from doing this too, in the presence of the children. It was the best I could get.

Autumnlight, welcome. Has your p been diagnosed? You sound very sure. If he has I am sure we would all be fascinated (as they are very rarely diagnosed!)

I guess he probably hasn't. In which case, I am very glad you are finding the thread helpful. Keep posting. We have all helped each other enormously.

TRM this sounds horrible. Stupid childish twunt ex. Honestly, you couldn't make it up. So he is playing the woe is me 'victim' card to his own children. Yep. Classic. They have no bloody conscience.

Shame he hasnt met another victim woman to seduce idealise yet, because in front of her, with the DCs around, he would be the lovely daddy more than likely.

Your MIL is a write-off so don't expect any support there and no, she won't want to see anything other than rays of light shining out of her ickle boy's arse - especially if she is a fuck-up herself which no doubt she is in some way or other. Being congentially spoilt as a child is as much a trigger for NPD as being abused. More so I think, the more I read and hear about this disorder.

Try to remember it has only been ten weeks. This is crucial. It is nothing. Your ex is still a vampire trying to suck the life-blood out of you any way he can. He must be one helluvan angry man poor diddums.

Be strong and forceful and calm. You have done the right thing in talking to your ds. He is going to have to come to terms with it all and some gentle loving honest chat will help him work out his anger and his issues. It will take time, patience and - hell, you are only human - it may go awry. But have faith in yourself. You are doing your very best for the dcs and that is all that you can ask of yourself.

If ds doesn't want to see his dad anymore then, at 11yrs, he can legitimately make that decision. Consult your solicitor. Remain no- contact as far as possible with your ex.

remember the flowersd and chocolate phase? You might like to remind him of it somehow from time to time - and what a bloody sham it was. Perhaps send him some Milk Tray (with most of them eaten) with a note saying something meaningless like 'have you seen my woolly hat anywhere? ta. '

Maths, as things stand my ds1 does not want to see his Dad - not sure if my ex can insist he has access? He has not made a petition for access to the courts either.

My ds attends a paychiatric nurse because of his Asperger diagnosis, she is up to speed on events regarding the marriage split. Ex h is now insisting I provide him with appointment times/dates so he 'has the option to attend' despite never attending a single appointment in the past.

In his latest e mail he cites how he consented to the safety order in order to 'avoid describing your behaviour in court'. If I wasn't so tired I would split my sides laughing.
He has failed to provide his work rota so set access times can be negotiated. At this stage I am beginning to think this is so that he can continue emailing me to arrange visits and keep this ongoing communication with me. I would rather not have to do this at all - he is still controling my life far too much in that I never know when I need to bring the dc on visits.
I am going to take some action on this, am fed up being at his beck and call. Still.