Narsissistic personality disorder

[therealme]

I'm English, living overseas. I'm married for 17 yrs and most of that has been pretty awful. I recently 'came clean' about my abusive relationship with dh on a parenting site where I live and I have had my eyes opened for the first time that maybe it's not all my fault anymore. I have blamed myself for everything that has 'gone wrong' in my marriage - although I have genuinly messsed up on more than one occasion.

I received a lot of support from people but didn't believe I was worthy of it. Then somebody suggested I google Narsissistic Personality Disorder and that is the moment my whole world changed. For the very fist time I began to see that maybe it wasn't ME that might have all the problems. I saw my 'perfect' dh described in black and white and the words 'personality disorder' were attached to his behaviours. To say the ground shifted from under me would be an understatement.

So now I find myself at a turning point in my life. I know I have to end my marriage. It's emotionally, verbally and mentally abusive. I now recognise that I am a shell of the person that I once was, have had the life blood drained out of me, but still have enough of a spark in me to want to fight for some peace of life at 42! I have 3 children whom I love and adore - but who also love their Daddy. I'm living financially independently from my dh who refused to support me financially after ds 2 was born 6 yrs ago. I want him out of the house and out of my life!

I've made my mind up, but I am still so weak when it comes to taking action. I have spent so long living in a confused and guilt-ridden state, does that make sense?
Is there anybody out there who has experience of living with a narsissistic partner? How do you make the break? How do you ever find the strength to stand up to them in order that you might have some quality of life left for yourself? Please advise.....

Hello Queeny

I am glad that you are finding some help through these postings. Understanding of these people does take time, and you will find that you will read something that you didn't understand before, and suddenly it will now make perfect sense.

My take on the house thing is that if you want to sell it now, he will want to delay it to next year. Simply because he can. They delight in contradicting you, and getting one over on you. If they know you want something, they enjoy denying you that thing. It's as simple as that.

They use the most important things of yours as weapons. So they use the children, or your hobby, because it makes them feel good to make you feel sh*t.

The best word to use with a narc is that wonderful teenage word....'whatever'..! Said with total disinterest. Just like a teenager!

Both my parents are Ns, and growing up I never told them ANYTHING. I had learnt even as a small child, that everything would come back to bite me.

The only way to get them to respect you is to get them to a point where they are frightened of you. Or at least frightened of what will happen to them if they bother you again.

Then they will never come back.

xxxxx

Thanks for that. We have done everything through a solicitor (£2k later) and have agreed contact, maintenance and the house sale in writing.

However, mine and his solicitors agreed with selling it next year with a target date of 1st March. I argued against it and the best compromise we reached was 1st Febuary. I wonder if I'm better off now to show no interest in the subject until 1st Feb.

Yes, he uses my daughter against me and plays games with her head which I think is despicable as she is only four years old. I'm struggling with PTSD quite a bit at the moment, as I'm having lots of flashbacks and vivid dreams. Haven't had a full night's sleep for a couple of weeks now.

So many things in this thread have made me go 'yes!' Strange things like the campness, sexual ineptitude, lack of dancing, lack of humour (although it was apparently me that had no sense of humour), internet porn and, oh yes, the creativity, although in my case it was photography. So many photos of aeroplane contrails and brave silouhettes against a setting sun. Yawn.

More poetry please! Why
Did I go to Esso
When Morrisons was closer.

Hilarious!

Hi
Therealme-what happened with "the letter" and the benefits circumstanace, if you don't mind me asking? I know it is a very sensitive point and will understand if you are taking an emotional break from it.

Gettingagrip-you wrote:
"The only way to get them to respect you is to get them to a point where they are frightened of you. Or at least frightened of what will happen to them if they bother you again. Then they will never come back."

This helps me to (try to) understand my N Middle Sister.

She refuses to pick up the phone and call me (when her recent thank you note said "she'd love to hear from me" )...because she knows I'm no longer her supply. And oh, I was very good supply to her for years.

I am to understand that when I do call her, I am essentially saying, "ok, I'm ready for you to f*

Oh yes, toomany, 'the letter'....
Well my barrister made it clear that his actions post separation in Aug would be relevent and discussed in front of the judge. I'd say this put the wind up him and had a lot to do with him agreeing to the safety order in the negotiated settlement.
I also learned that he would infact get into a lot of trouble for having remained in the house while I claimed lone parent money. As indeed his own legal team will have told him.

So; I assume he will not now be posting the letter.
I have hung on to my written statement to social welfare, but not posted it. I doubt I will need to defend myself now, but will be more than able to argue my corner should I need to

Therealme
That is wonderful!

Tis funny how a little knowledge brings much power.
Since starting this thread I have learned oh so much about NPD and how their minds work.
It has given me the confidence to no longer fear the rage-fuelled tantrums of my ex h.
Instead I remain calm, remain in control, stay strong in the knowledge that I am a normal empathic woman who can behave and act in a reasonable manner at all times. Unlike him.
His anger and spiteful revenge towards me shows himself up as the person least in control.
When I decided that I had enough of my abusive marriage I did something about it. It took 4 months to end 17 years of ongoing abuse. All I did was to say to myself 'I've had enough'. I had the power all along but didn't know!
I'm going through a transitional phase right now; the misery has ended but the dregs of it are still with me. I haven't experienced the full effect of my 'freedom' from my ex h as I have ploughed all my energy into surviving one day at a time. I haven't had time to notice that I can, infact, do anything I want - without permission - from now on.
I'm waiting, patiently, for that moment when I suddenly realise I am my own person. That I can do and say anything.
I am waiting for 'therealme' to emerge from wherever she has been hiding for the last 17 years.
No hurry.
I'll just have some fun while I'm waiting

Hello The Real You...

I have lived in a EA marriage for the best part of a decade - I have wanted to get out for years but was literally being told I couldn't manage without him - even tho I had a senior position with a well paid job when I met him.

I will post one day about what I've been through but I recently bit the bullet and after a particularly bad year/day... I emailed him and told him I wanted a divorce and that I'd got myself a solicitor. I couldn't do it face to face because I knew what his reaction would be....

Its only today reading another link on another thread that I have had a EUREKA moment - the description fits my H to a T!!
I am going to read your thread through now and do a bit more reading up on NPD - I always suspected bipolar - but without the highs!! (If that makes sense!)

I know how hard it must have been for you, I know how hard its been for me, I'm currently having to deal with the fact that I'm being selfish, will destroy the lives of my kids, etc etc.. but apart from worrying about my kids I feel remarkably detached and unemotional about the whole thing. I think I've grieved already tbh...

I will keep reading your progress but please know finding your thread has made me determined to do the same - ie BE MYSELF - who I was, not who I have become.

Sorry for the ramble - its just a very poignant time for me at the moment.

Dear Violet,
I have spent many a late hour 'rambling' and spilling my heart out on this thread. It didn't always make articulate reading but the posters on here knew what I was saying. They had been there too.

I also 'know', behind the words that you have written, what your life is probably like right now.
I know how depleted you must be feeling; how utterly exhausted and 'lost' you are. After years of surviving in an EA relationship there is little left of you. It takes so much energy from hidden depths that you never realised you had, to finally say ENOUGH. I think you just reach a point of no return. Once you have the 'knowledge' of what has been really going on, you know that you cannot go back. To do so would be to admit surrender of the little bit of real you that is left.

To free yourself from an EA partner is not going to be easy. He will pull out all the stops from now on to control and manipulate you into changing your mind. He will try to blame you as the cause of his behaviour - for all the things that have gone wrong in your marriage. But you probably knew that already?

The main thing to remember is that no matter what happened between you and your partner, you have the right to leave, the right to a happy and peaceful life and the right to live without fear or intimidation from another person. Life is too bloody short to sit and watch the real you slowly ebb away isn't it?

You deserve better Violet and I hope, like me, you find the strength and support on here to change your life.
Will be thinking of you,
Therealme xx

Hold on to these things:
Abuse is 100% the Abuser's fault.

Abusers can justify their cruelty to themselves because they have a distorted sense of Right and Wrong NOT because it is in any way justifiable.

And some of the 17 Rights pressed home by Women's Aid in their Bill of Rights:

16. You have the Right to control your own life and change it if you are not happy with it as it is.

1. You have the Right to be you.

2.You have the Right to put yourself first.

1. You have the Right to be treated with respect
2. You have the Right to be angry and protest if you are treated unfairly or abusively by anyone.

13.You have the Right to say NO 14.You have the Right to make mistakes 15. You have the Right NOT to be responsible for other adults' probems.

Lundy Bancroft's book Why Does he Do That? And a book called Narcissistic Lovers are both essential reading.

Violet don't beat yourself up for not telling him to his face: you are brave simply to do it any way that feels easiest. Damn it, you've had enough hardship already.

TRM and others of us here are living proof that you can gather strength and move away from EA and into a happier and safer place. The Real You will return.

Remain as disconnected as possible and limit contact to only essentials. Get cloth for ears. Also try to be kind and loving to yourself; treat yourself. NPD as it is such a mind-bender it would test the sanity of a saint.

Keep talking to us on here if it helps.
Hug your children. Hug yourself.

Well I have read up on NPD and don't know whether I am relieved or shocked at finding that H ticks 99% of the boxes - even to obscure things like favouring one child over another... it feels unreal but there is no doubt in my mind.

Having announced this week that I want a divorce he's gone from pleading with me (2emails and 1 phone conversation) not to 'ruin' the kids and that the thought of them being 'damaged' was nearly reducing him to tears...... to behaving as if I've said nothing and nothings wrong. He's on his best behaviour and fawning over the children (like he wants to get them on-side).... he's never been a flower and presents sort of guy (why he's only 99% barking..!)

What's this all about? Is he just in denial or hoping it'll blow over? Its not making me change my mind - there is no going back for me.. I'm just not sure what to expect next?

Any thoughts?
Thanks

Oh just wanted to add - not once has he made any reference to 'us' and why we should stay together. its all and only for the kids sake...

Why have I got the 1 weirdo who just won't leave?!!!!

Thanks

Hi all, well done in court hun, how are you feeling now?

Well went to court with the ex and he has broken the court order for finances and interum periodical maintenance payment, no surprise to me, as he broke all family court orders and lied and got away with it, as there no evdience and his word against mine, where as lies in finances much easier to prove, he will probably talk himself out of it with the judge and have a good explanation ready as ever blah blah blah...

has anyone else had this issue? how was it dealt with in the end?

violet, just know that it is all about him and what he wants, or thinks he wants, or thinks society thinks he should want. Whatever. They are loons.

TRM had all the fawning and the pleading stuff too - the dcs are perfect pawns for these men. He possibly thinks that by being 'nice' to the children you will think 'he is a nice guy after all and look the kids love him and I can't do this to them and and and and....' and bollocks.

His nice-guy phase will vanish once he realises you mean business and there's no going back.

Don't bother trying to work out whether he's in denial or hoping it will blow over or anything else for that matter. He might just fancy sausages for tea and think he can persuade the dcs to tell you to give him sausages for tea. They really are bloody stupid, as well as able to cause emotional carnage through their manipulation and acting.

Focus entirely on yourself and the children; think about money and legal issues. Turn your heart to stone. Turn your ears to cloth. Communicate with him as little as is necessary but remain polite and calm. Shrink him in your minds eye to the size of a tantruming two year old.

Get busy instead with sorting out your next steps. What legal advice have you got so far?

Remember, NPDers have no empathy, no respect for their wives or partners. They think entirely and 100% about themselves. You are an object to him not a person. he is certainly not trying to work out YOUR emotions, so don't bother trying to think about his (fake) emotions.

Emotional Abuse is grounds for divorce (unreasonable behaviour) so can you talk with your sol about how you can get him removed from the house?

I had a totally diff experience from you because my h just got on a plane and pissed off. So posters like gettingagrip and TRM and Mummie will have better advice about how to deal with the wankers that stick around to make life hell for you than me when dealing with the legal stuff (not that my life wasn't hell when he farked off)

Keep reading about NPD. Remember it exists on a spectrum and often overlaps with other personality disorders so symptoms of bi-polar will be knocking around in there too.

Mummie, that is shit. I am sorry he is being such a pig. They have absolutely no bloody respect for the law, they are able to simply ignore court orders and legal demands for money. In their minds they must thing that they are oh so way way above the silly old law...

It's the old entitlement crap again. My h had CCJs against him when I met him and when I asked him why he hadn't paid the debts off (he was loaded at this point) he said 'I'm not giving my money to the taxman' in a kind of horrified-at-my-stupidity tone.

God I should have run screaming, full pelt, for the top of Everest. But I had no idea back then about these PDs and felt I ought to agree with him because he was 'clever,' 'kind,' 'handsome' and 'charming.'

What a twanker I was!

Isn't ignoring a court order 'contempt of court'? Can the judge impose a penalty. I know in the US you can be thrown in jail for contempt. There have to be penalties for this or else the court becomes irrelevant. Can you have his wages garnished (so money comes directly to you out of his paycheque)? Courts must have a way of enforcing orders.

Violet, what the NH is doing is trying to emotionally blackmail you. He is buying time while he finds somewhere else to go to get his laundry done and meals cooked, hoping you'll change your mind and he won't have to go to all that bother. He knows you love the children and is trying to use this to make you take a decision that is against your best interests (and the children's interests too, btw)

He is not showing any sign of taking you seriously, he's clearly not ready to accept that there are serious and irremediable problems in your relationship -- and he's a long, long way from acknowledging his major role in running it into the ground

Well I don't know....these people never cease to amaze me.

I have had to deal with my NM and my N ex-H today. My ex-HN has ignored his court order to pay me. It was as if it had never been made and we had not spent two nightmare days in court. It was just ignored!!

My NM kept asking me questions and then completely ignoring my replies, and making her own replies up, whilst talking over me.

I just feel shattered dealing with them all.

Yes if they ignore the court order the bailiffs are sent in and their bank accounts are stopped. They can go to jail.

They really do just exist in their own universe. They seem to have no concept of action/consequence.

They certainly have no concept of another person's needs.

It is all about them. As always.

I agree with Maths in that he is probably buying himself time here. You have just given him an unmerciful shock ~ you took control and said no more ! He won't be used to this.
When I handed my ex N his court summons I know I took the carpet from under his feet. Never in a million years would he have expected me to 'fight back'. He became very 'reasonable' about the whole thing at first - "It's a relief to end this marriage at last". He then went from flowers, gifts and "Will you ever forgive me? I'll admit to emotional neglect in court" to blackmailing me into meeting his demands and lying to his legal team about certain recent incidents that I was crystal clear on in my memory. His true self came back again within a matter of weeks, the self centred, controling, manipulative and nasty devious man that I had been experiencing for 17 years.

You need to stick to your guns Violet. Stand firm and don't, as I did, feel any pity for him, it was only used by my ex N to try to wriggle his way back in to my life in order to get his own way again. Too many years of self doubt made me question the severity of going to court to seek a safety order. But a few short months talking about my life on line and in RL told me that I was, infact, more than entitled to seek legal protection from a man who controled my life through fear.

Send in the bailifs gettingagrip!!
Let them take him on now.

Grr, parents! Need to rant and need your views. I left my PD partner three months ago with my 4 year old daughter. He's a clever bastard and did everything oh so softly - never called me anything bad to face, was never obvious but very controlling and PD weird (thank god I don't need to try and explain it to you lot).

My Dad called today as he is coming to see my sister at half-term who lives locally to me. He lives a good two hour drive away which he finds increasingly difficult. He had called me last week to tell me this (btw this is normal, he comes to see my sister and I have to fit around their plans) and I explained I was away and DD was with her Dad.

So he phones today and asks if I would be bothered if he invited my ex and DD to join them for lunch. I said yes, I definitely was bothered and he seemed to think I was getting my knickers in a twist. I also mentioned that my ex would be taking DD to his Mum's so wouldn't be around to which my Dad said 'oh well, that settles it then'.

I am soooo angry that he thinks I would willingly give my ex the opportunity to wheedle his way in and have a captive audience of my Dad and sister to listen to what a nightmare I am. I'm not even wondering AIBU, but how can I get my remaining family to take it seriously. Or can't I and should I just accept that?

My family would have to be held back from spitting on my ex. ExIn laws, on the other hand, treat me like a complete pariah. I know where he got all the PD behaviour from now... The fact that I told my exMIL everything she never wanted to know about her son has a lot to do with that state of affairs. But I know how frustrating it is to be dealing with people who are in complete denial or who refuse to get it, or are afraid of confrontation and appearing judgmental to such a degree that they'll throw anyone under the bus just to seem agreeable and civilised. It's got to be that much harder when it's your own parent who can't get his head around the rights and wrongs of the situation. You could try telling him that reaching out to the ex is not what you were hoping for in the way of support at this difficult time? Maybe he's afraid that he'll miss chances to see his GD now that your situation has changed.

hi folks, blimey it never ends, ex still not followed through with the court order for finances, so all done for attachment of earnings, not sure how it works really, as have no solicitor and did it myself.

ex hubby, kids dad sent them a distrubing card this week, I feel so stressed, there is other stuff going on with the kids and my family etc all accumulating in me getting stressed out.

I am at the point of thinking he is getting off on finding new inventive ways to abuse, with in the different disiplines of the law, I seriously think one day it will escallate to him trying to kill me, this has been going on for years, with never more than a week or two gap between his stunts!

I wish I could just hide away me and the kids where he can't find us, and be free!!!

Can I join you please? I am feeling very jittery at the moment. I think my dad is a N. He fits the bill rather well. At the moment, I'm not sure where to put myself. At the moment, I feel very sad and very very angry.

Hello silent

Welcome to the thread.

You will find people here who totally understand what you are going through.

the only people who do really get it are people who have had to deal with these freaks.

Even mental health professionals don't really get it I am finding.

My ex-HN has now paid up his first month, as ordered by the judge (after nearly three years of ignoring me and his children financially), but for my sins I had a narc rage to endure on the phone as he was so furious at having to pay. In fact he was so abusive and threatening that I told him I would get the police next time.

I will never stop telling everyone ...you have to go in hard and hit them with what hurts. 'Shock and Awe'...it's the only way.

They then realise that you are such hard work for them that they go awway and find another easier victim.

xxxxx

"I am at the point of thinking he is getting off on finding new inventive ways to abuse, with in the different disiplines of the law, I seriously think one day it will escallate to him trying to kill me, this has been going on for years, with never more than a week or two gap between his stunts!"

Mummie, I had to respond to this. Firstly, yes, it's quite plausible that he could be enjoying the challenge of finding subtle new ways to get to you.

Secondly, if your gut tells you he's dangerous, you should take this seriously. I read somewhere that it is women's own perceptions about the danger of their partner/ex that is the best predicting factor of whether they will in fact be dangerous. Can you talk to Women's Aid outreach about putting together a safety plan? Also, if you google "safety plan domestic violence" there are lists of things you can do to combat some of the risk. You don't have feel like you're helplessly waiting for something to happen. I'm so sorry you have to live with this stress.

I have developed asthma for the first time in my life. The doc says it is stress-caused. Bugger. Thanks for that, Dad.

I would leave well alone, were it not for my Mum having dementia, and still living with a lunatic.

My brother has now become involved, which is good for mum, but unlikely to be any good for him.