Narsissistic personality disorder

[therealme]

I'm English, living overseas. I'm married for 17 yrs and most of that has been pretty awful. I recently 'came clean' about my abusive relationship with dh on a parenting site where I live and I have had my eyes opened for the first time that maybe it's not all my fault anymore. I have blamed myself for everything that has 'gone wrong' in my marriage - although I have genuinly messsed up on more than one occasion.

I received a lot of support from people but didn't believe I was worthy of it. Then somebody suggested I google Narsissistic Personality Disorder and that is the moment my whole world changed. For the very fist time I began to see that maybe it wasn't ME that might have all the problems. I saw my 'perfect' dh described in black and white and the words 'personality disorder' were attached to his behaviours. To say the ground shifted from under me would be an understatement.

So now I find myself at a turning point in my life. I know I have to end my marriage. It's emotionally, verbally and mentally abusive. I now recognise that I am a shell of the person that I once was, have had the life blood drained out of me, but still have enough of a spark in me to want to fight for some peace of life at 42! I have 3 children whom I love and adore - but who also love their Daddy. I'm living financially independently from my dh who refused to support me financially after ds 2 was born 6 yrs ago. I want him out of the house and out of my life!

I've made my mind up, but I am still so weak when it comes to taking action. I have spent so long living in a confused and guilt-ridden state, does that make sense?
Is there anybody out there who has experience of living with a narsissistic partner? How do you make the break? How do you ever find the strength to stand up to them in order that you might have some quality of life left for yourself? Please advise.....

"nob" is better (and less chance of getting caught)

ha ha! nob not paying maintenance though!

do people realise what deadbeat means? or is that an american term really/?

I have been back to Womens Aid because I have some concerns now about the court hearing in 2 weeks.
Initially my ex was so full of 'remorse' ie, scared out of his designer pants, that he seemed to agree to take my claim about his abusive behaviour as an unchallenged fact.
As I now realise, this was during his Mr Nice phase when flowers and gifts were plentiful.
Things have now changed of course and he is back to his full nasty, coniving and malicious 'Mr Nasty' self.
I am in no doubt that he will pull out all the stops in court to make me out to be a drunk, a whore and an unfit mother. I know he has been beavering away at collating a book of evidence against me and it will be a severe character assassination in order to make me out to be the abuser. Not surprised about this, but I do feel kind of sick and faint at the thoughts of having to sit, listen and then try to defend myself against it in front of a judge.

What has been worrying me most, however, is the fact that I have been living on benefits that I was not entitled to for 5 years. I have no doubt that ex-bastard will bring this up in court and spin a story that will exempt him from any responsibility as to why I had to go down this route to survive financially. The judge may, or may not believe him. But I can nevertheless be reported for benefit fraud. He, it seems, will not be investigated, but I will. He, will not be prosecuted, but I may be.
It is all very alarming and a huge risk for me, when, at the end of it all I probably won't get the Barring Order and am not gaurateed the Safety Order either.

As Womens Aid have pointed out to me, the court visit a few weeks ago was for an immediate action and it achieved its purpose in that it got him out. A Safety Order can be re-sought by me at any time for as long as I remain legally married to him. It is an insurance policy for me.
My main objective now is to get my self legally seperated from him. I have drawn up a plan, will be making a solicitors appointment tomorrow and will be pursuing this long term plan of action to seperate my life from him once and for all.
I feel less agitated having found a course of action that I am comfortable with. I cannot go into court to do battle with this tormentor at the moment. I don't think I can handle being torn to shreads by his lies and then hauled in by welfare fraud investigators. Not while I am on my own here with no immediate support.
I have worked myself up into a state of panic over all of this, have lost sleep, been plagued by nightmares and am stressed out beyond belief. I just want to cut him out of my life insofar as I can with 3dc, so the legal separation route is the one I am taking now.

You poor thing, but surely your need to claim benefits actually adds strength to your position, not his. You were forced in to it, it wasn't a choice. This must be an absolute classic sign of abuse, one which the court will recognise.
Good luck, and well done.

Yes, Minky, the court may recognise this, but apparently it will not make any difference to social welfare

Therealme: whose name was on the bank account(s) for all those years? Do you currently know what the N's finances are? How much does he make? Are you or are you not driving a car that's on its last legs? If you had access to any money would you be driving around in a piece of junk? How old is the car? There is such a thing as financial abuse.. Plenty of abusers keep the family finances under their names only and give an 'allowance' that barely covers milk and sausages to the wife. Can you make a case that your H didn't support you? The children have clothes from the second hand shop, right? Do you have any receipts? Do the people who work there know you to see?

No matter what he says, it's still his word against yours. Your job is to look and sound as convincing as possible. He can fling accusations around all he likes, but you have details like the window smashing and all the rest of it. All he can say to that is deny it and look like a delusional fool. If he claims he was provoked, he is still admitting to completely outrageous behaviour. Try to put down as many details as you can of occasions when he did outrageous things, along with dates. And keep those texts, nice one day, vicious the next.

I hope the solicitor will also help you with the welfare fraud threat. Stay strong, try not to be intimidated xxxx

Maths, yes I know it will be his word against mine, and that is the problem. With no physical injuries or evidence it will be hard to convince an old school judge over here that the emotional abuse even constitutes as abuse - I have been warned that many do not recognise it as 'abuse'.
He will deny the violence within the home - he has already claimed no memory of it!

We have seperate bank accounts and yes, my statements will show very little in the way of incomings. His take home salary is between 3,500 to 4,000 euro a month but so what? He will say that I 'refused' to go back to work and chose to live on welfare.

He will stand in court innocense personified. He will twist everything around to be my fault and evade responsibility, this is what he has done for years, he believes he is the victim and was forced to behave as he did because I was so awful to live with. He will paint me as an adulterer who emotionaly abused him, whose depression and spell on a psychiatric ward caused my 'mood swings' and him great emotional stress, who did not leave the marriage but stayed for 17 years. He will lie, convincingly, and I will come across once again as weak, chaotic and out of control.

I don't need the Barring Order. I can re apply for the Safety Order in the future if he becomes abusive (with documented evidence this time).
He has left the house and I now just want to make his absense a permanent one by legally seperating, having his access to the dc clearly defined in black and white so there has to be minimal communication in the future.
Maybe I'm being a coward by avoiding the courts but he will relish the idea of having his say in front of a judge - the ultimate revenge to prove what an awful wife I was? I'm not going to give him that satisfaction and destroy what little self esteem I have left. The thoughts of cutting him out of my life legally are the only thing that bring me peace of mind at the moment.

Therealme, I completley understand and I agree with your decision, it is the best course, you have to keep your sanity, and the pressure of him manipulating and having people believe him over you would if it happened undermine your confidence and make him a victor (in his N eyes), and on that level you do not need to add to his already GOD like beliefs that he is indistructable, this is not about winning each battle, its about winning the war, and removing him from your everyday life is paramount.

You know him better than anyone, and you know what to do, it may take a few mistakes, and alot of heartache, but believe in your decisions, and use that fear to drive you through.

Sorry you've got all this stress on your shoulders, TRM. I agree that the prospect of a judge can be a bit scary, as you don't know what prejudices etc the judge might have.

I still think the bank statements are good evidence. He can say you chose to live on welfare - but I don't think any judge will swallow that you "chose" not to share any of his earnings.

Hi all. Sorry I have not been on here much. I have got the meeting with the council today to discuss housing etc, and I haven't had a lot to say before then.

He has just texted me to say "Just tell me if I don't wanna be with me any more" [sic] - obviously he means if you don't want to be with me, ie if I don't want to be with him. (Confused yet?? Interesting typo as well...)

I don't know what to say. I hate this lying (it is not natural to me at all) and he comes across as so reasonable when he says this and it makes me feel so guilty for making these plans to leave behind his back. But I know that he is not reasonable, so I am wary of treating it as normal. And that is hard as well, to be so cold and calculating towards someone.

Any ideas? When I tried to leave him before I tried to discuss it face to face and he would only discuss it with me in the car but I didn't feel safe as he was in control - he was in the driving seat and he could take me somewhere and leave me there or crash the car or kick me out of the car and go home and get DS before I could get there. He didn't do any of these things but I had backtracked and said we'd give it another go and it sounded like it was my idea, but I think he did manipulate me into saying that by how he was reacting. The way he did react before seemed to be very much that once I have confirmed this relationship is over he is not going to want to live together for another minute, so either he will disappear or I will have to move out very quickly. (And TBH I'd rather move out myself - but wanted to get it sorted first and I want to keep my laptop etc which I am sure he sees as "his")

TRM, I feel awful on your behalf, this is exactly how my x would behave in court. SO glad we never got there.

You have your bank statements to show that you had no money from him. YOU had NO JOINT ACCOUNT. Am I right there?! That is proof of financial abuse! He earns a good salary and he gives his wife nothing and forces a previously law-abiding citizen to commit fraud to feed her children.

The only thing to do is to say, yes I did it, and I worried about it every single night, the fear of getting found out was HUGELY distressing, but I got nothing from him and had 3 children to look after (one with sn).

TRM a poster on RC (another member of the npd survivor group) was stitched up by her x-bastard and his sister . The SW called her in for an interview when they got the call 'grassing' her up., and left her in a room for a while, but when they came to talk to her, she 'just' told them what they'd put her through. I guess they are experienced enough to know when they're being spun a line. It might be worth going to see them. Although I guess you have enough on your plate right now!

Just had a thought.

Would it be possible to arrange a meeting with SW yourself, and bring that supportive woman from WA with you? the one who sat with you in court before?

I think that would send out a good message about your character and the the veracity of your side of the story in general, if the woman from WA accompanied you to SW, where you "faced up" to your criiiiiiiiime. iyswim.

I agree with mathanxiety. you have to present yourself as well as you can. You CAN do that.

If you get an old fashioned judge, he is most likely to believe that a man should be supporting his wife and the wife should not have to go out to work.

I would tell all to your solicitor, and go with Maggie's advice about getting WA to come along and back you up. Did you know the main reason the children's allowance was introduced in Ireland was because mothers and children were literally going hungry in the early days of the century because men were drinking their wages and leaving nothing for their families? In your case, he kept the money for himself, whether he drank it or not... You have a real case, and try not to feel intimidated by the fear of the SW people. They have to investigate, but they are aware of abuse too. Plus, you have no family there in Ireland; you couldn't exactly borrow a few quid here or there from relatives to tide you over for a week like some people can. You depended on him, and he refused to support you. If you had mental health issues (brought on by living with him...) that would also mean you couldn't be expected to hold down a job along with taking care of the SN DC.

The powers that be are aware of abuse. Your solicitor can help you present your situation in the most persuasive way possible -- the onus is not all on you to battle your way alone through the courts. Irish courts do tend to side with the mother, possibly for sentimental reasons, but also because there is a dim collective memory of real tragedies that were visited on women and children by men.

Therealme-five weeks yesterday! I am sorry I can not give you advice regarding the benefits. But my gut feeling goes with Maggie and Math's advice of not hiding anything. Get it all out now and resolved however that may go so you can have the comfort of a clean slate.

I agree with your self-awareness assessment that you feel you shouldn't attempt to endure the character assasination drama. You know your limits and are navigating accordingly. Take care. Have you tried the strategy for grief control of making an appointment with yourself to cry? 30 min (or however long) at a certain time every day-then that's it for the day.

MaggieBeauLeo,
Thank you for the term "compliance" a few days ago.

This is another piece of the puzzle for me regarding Middle Sister (N).

In relating to the birthday gift, if Oldest Sister does not comply and become a golfer (per the master plan) then MS will be, in her mind, justified in declaring OS a terrible person. OS said she will instantly return the clubs for the cash. (Moving lawn chairs to a safe distance for the coming eruption...)

5 weeks separated and I am noticing some small changes;

• I have started wearing make up again
• I am buying clothes for myself
• I am becoming more relaxed in the home without looking over my shoulder all the time while I am on line
• I am beginning to loosen the rigid routines that were made for the dc
• I absolutely LOVE having a bedroom of my own
• I have dyed my hair and am going to buy myself a fake tan!
• I get dvd's out that I want to watch!
• I can come and go from the house without having to be back by a certain time
• I am calmer and less likely to loose my temper with the dc.

These are just a few things I have noticed. There are probably more, and this is why I am never going to go back - only forwards planning for me now

I am really happy for you!

thats great, therealme.

therealme, Amazonian, this is for you:

Tell your children the truth

For me this page is relevant with regard to my mother. For you its your ex husbands.

Wow therealme That is fantastic - and it's amazing how such small changes can make a big difference to your life. I like the make up one especially - I was going to meet an old friend recently who is very fashion conscious (he is gay) and I didn't want to look too shabby sitting next to him so was quite enjoying dressing up a bit, I nearly put some make up on and then stopped as I thought P would read something into it and get all paranoid about me cheating(!) and decided it wasn't worth the hassle

All I have to do now is find somewhere to move to who will accept the council's bond scheme and I can go. Which sounds so easy.

His latest argument/obsession is stopping DS co-sleeping and putting him in a cot in his own room. So I decided to "try" this as I knew it wouldn't work that easily/quickly and sure enough he was not happy being left alone in a strange room to sleep. P's answer to this is just to let him cry it out, when I say I refuse to do this he refuses to help with any other night time settling. I think it's a cop out. But with DS teething it's very frustrating doing it all on my own and seeing him sitting there smugly watching something awful on TV ignoring me. We are now having a problem with DS' nappies leaking so I wake up in a wet patch and his answer to that was to put him in his cot! Poor DS, it obviously doesn't matter if he wakes up in a wet patch

Your H sounds very jealous of the DS, Bertie. Mine used to tell me the babies were manipulating me, he really insisted they should cry themselves to sleep, but I never went along. His use of the term manipulating stayed in my mental 'odds and ends drawer' of phrases that he would use that finally revealed his true self to me. There was a lot of projection with my ex.

TRM - don't the little things make such a difference. A good life is just a huge bunch of good little things. Abuse can be an aggregation of bad little things too.

Hi all,
Things turned slightly nasty this evening with my ex. He came to the house having had to bail me out because I was sick and couldn't collect the dc. I have no body else here who I can call on for help.
Before he left he handed me a letter. Infact, he did the exact same thing I did when I served him with the summons - handed me an envelope and said 'You need to read this.' It was word for word a repeat of my own.

So anyway, the letter is to Social Welfare head office. It basically tells them that I stopped work and started claiming lone parent benefit. I then resigned my job and continued to claim. I worked for a year (doing home tutoring p/t) and claimed. I was cohabiting while claiming. I recently deposited money into my savings account (I cashed in my retirement fund - I have no idea how he got access to this info.)

This letter has not been sent yet, but it will unless I agree to him having unlimited access to the dc through visits to my home for the next 2 to 3 years while he gets a house deposit together.
I am being blackmailed.

I rang my Mum and told her, albeit slightly hysterical. She suggests stringing him along until she gets here and we go to see a solicitor on the 9th Oct.
When I calmed down and spoke to him on the phone it just covered old ground; he is entitled. I was abusive to him. He has nothing to hide. He will not guarentee that he won't spy into my life. I later found the recycling bin had been emptied and searched through.

I'm up shit creek. Feel very depressed. I had to explain to ds1 why I was crying without freaking him out. I know that this is not going to end here - if I played along with his plan, 2 years down the line he will seek custordy of the dc having amassed a catalogue of evidence against me from his bin raiding snooping.
Jesus what a mess.

Oh, Dear Lord, Therealme.

This is awful. I am feeling sadness in my heart for you and your dc.
I am glad that your Mom can come back to help.
Please hang in there. It is blackmail and grrrrr....you still do not want to be his puppet. The gut feeling is to deal with the benefit circumstance now, the blackmail letter is additional proof of his abuse.

You need to ask your solicitor if he/she is the meanest son of a bitch on the island, because that is who you will need.

Toomany - yes, I know!
I have spoken to a friend who has helped me from the start of my story on line. She has calmed me down.
I am going to face the music with soc welfare and am going to ask my Womens Aid advisor to accompany me.
Once I have done that I will tell my ex N to stick his letter where the sun doesn't shine.
He can forget about any mediation - I will legally separate through the courts and it will cost him an arm and a leg (literally, I hope)
I will hit him hard for maintanence and limited access to the dc.
I will then inform him I intent to move back to the uk WITH HIS KIDS and he can lodge his complaint with the courts (more money) where he will have a slim chance of stopping me.

Not playing anymore. I want a complete cut from him now. This latest antic is typical of his controlling, manipulative behaviour. I'm finished with it. And him.

I have to say I think this is a blessing in disguise (although it may not feel like that at the moment).

As others have said, in the courts eyes the fact you have been on benefits is real proof of his financial abuse.

Oh Im so glad youre going to courts and not mediation. Fuck him, therealme.

REading your last post I am in awe at you and how you are in fighting spirit. THat is how you are supposed to be feeling right now and it means the real you is coming back.

Def go to a solicitor. DO you need to wait for your mum?

Oh, and VERY interesting that he repeated the exact same words you used.

SOme words of reassurance: narcissists are evil, sly, manipulative and cunning but they are also very STUPID. the reason for this is their abolute lack of empathy. They literaly cannot stand in another persons shoes. He is certain now he has you panicking about the children, but being a human, you are going to call his bluff and I honestly think he wonT know whats hit him. He thinks hes backed you into a corner, but really hes just given you a way out.

My MIL bullied me after the birth of DD. What I could not understand was why she thought shed get away with it. I realise now she thought that <span class="italic">I</span> was like her: she thought Id married up, that I was with my husband for convenience, and that I had nowhere to go in the UK(that ones true!) . What she did not ever expect was that I`d call her bluff, tell my husband all her antics, decide to divorce and head off back to ENgland.
She had no idea how other people think at all and therefore thought she had all the power. She was wrong, and so is your H.

And you know, if he actually did get custody...well,
he probably doesn't want to deal with the dc to begin with. The dc are just a tool he is using to wring out any life left in your heart.

I am still in shock at the caculated choreography of manipulation of you over the years! [edit descriptives]

He is a psychopath. I don't think there can be any doubt about that any more.

I am glad you are defending yourself, meeting his challenge with courage, intelligence, and an unwavering focus to end, once and for all time, the hell you and your children have lived through.