Narsissistic personality disorder

[therealme]

I'm English, living overseas. I'm married for 17 yrs and most of that has been pretty awful. I recently 'came clean' about my abusive relationship with dh on a parenting site where I live and I have had my eyes opened for the first time that maybe it's not all my fault anymore. I have blamed myself for everything that has 'gone wrong' in my marriage - although I have genuinly messsed up on more than one occasion.

I received a lot of support from people but didn't believe I was worthy of it. Then somebody suggested I google Narsissistic Personality Disorder and that is the moment my whole world changed. For the very fist time I began to see that maybe it wasn't ME that might have all the problems. I saw my 'perfect' dh described in black and white and the words 'personality disorder' were attached to his behaviours. To say the ground shifted from under me would be an understatement.

So now I find myself at a turning point in my life. I know I have to end my marriage. It's emotionally, verbally and mentally abusive. I now recognise that I am a shell of the person that I once was, have had the life blood drained out of me, but still have enough of a spark in me to want to fight for some peace of life at 42! I have 3 children whom I love and adore - but who also love their Daddy. I'm living financially independently from my dh who refused to support me financially after ds 2 was born 6 yrs ago. I want him out of the house and out of my life!

I've made my mind up, but I am still so weak when it comes to taking action. I have spent so long living in a confused and guilt-ridden state, does that make sense?
Is there anybody out there who has experience of living with a narsissistic partner? How do you make the break? How do you ever find the strength to stand up to them in order that you might have some quality of life left for yourself? Please advise.....

Hi all. therealme well done It must be hard to take control when it has been the other way around for so long. I think you are so brave.

I am starting to think about making plans. I was in bed last night thinking about how I left education too early (guess who convinced me?) and realising it wasn't really my decision to leave at all. I left halfway through my A Levels, which I did 2 years late after doing a vocational course - so I have got 3 AS levels and only one with a decent grade (Psychology ) I would love to go back to college and continue 2 of those A Levels, I don't know whether I would have to retake the AS year or not. That would give me enough UCAS points, with the vocational course as well, to get onto a decent course at University, which was what I always wanted to do. I'm not thinking about the money just now. I will find a way to make it work out.

So I was thinking about this and it made me feel excited about my future, for the first time in months, probably years. I haven't been with P very long in the grand scheme of things - only about 2.5 years. (And DS is nearly a year old, so to save you the maths I was pregnant after just 9 months of us being together.) I am finding it very hard to contemplate the idea of leaving. I am living a lie all the time because I can't let P know I want to leave it's really hard to do because I am naturally an open and honest person and I hate deceiving anyone. So all these promises I am making myself - college, university, just my own house and space and being able to bring up DS the way I want to - they are the things I keep promising myself, when I get out. But I don't really even know where to start. I can't stay in this house (rented) because the landlord is a friend of P's, but I haven't got any money to put down a deposit anywhere else. I have got a savings account which P can't access but he knows about it, which has about £400 in, and a savings bond which my Dad gave me for my 21st with £250 in plus interest (though not much interest), the housing benefit claim is in my name, but I don't know how that works. My mum hasn't got any money to help me out. I am probably owed about £200 from the deposit here but I doubt I will see that. (Stupid and petty as P is due to inherit £25,000 next year. I need to leave before then because I don't want to get into an argument about that money, I don't want a penny of it.) I don't work myself at all. The benefits and tax credits are paid into a joint account (only I know the online banking password, the card is in my name but P has it and the PIN - but I could cancel it immediately if I need to - he agreed to all this as he admitted I am better with money - but he still somehow seems to control it! Grr!)

There is a CAB drop-in locally this afternoon I think I might go to. I haven't mentioned this in real life to anybody yet, apart from the lady at the Children's Centre (I have referred myself for counselling through them as it's free - though it's been 2 weeks now and haven't heard anything.) and it is scary to go and talk to people about it because it means it comes from this silent safe internet space into reality, but I have to do something. It doesn't help that when I have tentatively mentioned the subject people are saying to me "Oh everyone has trouble in their relationship after they have a baby, it's normal."

Sorry to have written such a long post. It is so helpful to just be able to write all this down. I hate this lying and hurting, I know that it's silly, I am too nice I guess! P told me at the weekend proudly that he had got a girl's number she is 17 I wish I could warn her, I am sure he was not joking when he said she was his backup plan.

Hi SerenityX

With regard to your question about N's as new/young fathers - as usual there is no easy answer, I fear!

It is important to realise that most of the partners of N's who stay with them for any length of time, are there for a reason. Usually, it is because they have come from a dysfunctional family background themselves and will tolerate a life that a "normal" person wouldn't. To the partner of an N, particularly if he or she has had an N parent, the life feels comfortable and normal. At least for a while

So as far as your friend goes, she may not herself tolerate the relationship for long depending on her own circumstances.

It is very dangerous for children to have an N parent as I am sure you are aware. I myself spent more than 20 years as the partner of an N (I must be severely fucked up). Although I do not believe that I have an N parent or relative. My father has Aspergers, in my opinion, not diagnosed though, which means I was used to a parent who appeared not to love me and for whom I could never be good enough for. My mother I think is co-dependant, as I suspect I am, who allowed my father to rage at me.

To be honest my ExNH's behaviuor was less blatant between the age of 20 - 40. I have read that they become worse after the age of 40 as they realise their grandiose fantasies aren't going to happen.

Nevertheless, because of my own high tolerance levels I put up with the following without being particularly concerned.

NH announced baby's birth in high-faluting news publications despite us being from a family background which wouldn't do this as a norm.

NH did very little hands-on caring - nappy-changing, feeding etc.even though we both worked full-time, but to be fair I guess a lot of men don't. However, if anyone was visiting then it would be quite the opposite - he'd spring into action so they thought he was super-dad.

NH liked to lie-in until 11 or 12 every weekend morning and would ask that there was no noise. I would take the baby/child out if possible to allow NH to sleep in peace.

NH very keen to show off baby and promote achievements as superior to a normal childs. I thought he was just being a proud father at the time, but thinking back it was quite creepy. Particularly as when DS reached his teens he was subsequently devalued by his father for not "achieving".

NH was very keen to do the things with DS that attracted the attention of others or reflected well on him. The use of the word "mini-me" is very accurate!

NH asked for a paternity test soon after the birth and has at intervals throughout DS's life, as he accused me of sleeping with someone else and DS not being his child.

From DS reaching the age of 13, NH dramatically changed his stance towards him. From being a young adoring child and source of NS, to becoming a teenager with opinions and not being able to meet NH's very high standards he began to devalue his son. And me too as I began to oppose his cruel behaviour to DS.

I hope this helps and you will be able to offer some support to your friend when things go wrong.

I found my exNH seemed to have something akin to PND at the birth of each child. I think he couldn't stand the fact that there was suddenly another baby in the house. He felt the lack of attention and created some kind of drama every time, even turned household chores into an opportunity to scream at the children and at me for being a slob (a nine months pg woman is a slob if she can't clean the bathtub...) The children, even though they were young, were expected to behave like little adults, take on much more than their fair share of helping around the house and do it quickly and perfectly. He couldn't deal with intrusions into his parallel reality like spills at the dinner table, which he reacted to with outrageous yelling and fussing with hot water and sponges, clearing of every dish from the table until water was mopped up... Meals were pretty grim. He took great pleasure in positive reports about them from teachers, but if something went wrong at school or at home it was all my fault. In general, I believe Ns don't tolerate young children very well because young children are also Ns to a large degree, although growing out of it, whereas the grown Ns didn't manage to get beyond the emotional level of a 3 yo. My exN took everything the DCs did very personally and responded with disproportionate anger -- he was genuinely outraged when they didn't sleep, when they said No forcefully as toddlers, threw tantrums, etc. (He was the only one in the house permitted to throw a tantrum) I found myself fearing for their safety and actually never left them alone with him, so my social life ground to a complete halt while the DCs were small.

therealme you're doing great now. The less you see of him the stronger you'll feel and the better you'll feel. The 'can't afford it comments' are unbelievable aren't they!?!? my x complained about the price of coffee in town after I'd spent 100euro taking dc1 to the dentist.. same day!!

bertie this is classic npd behaviour. I allowed myself to be talked out of going back to work after I'd had a baby. When dc1 was 3 and I was starting to think about re-training as a midwife, he laughed quite openly at me, and bullied me into having dc2. I wouldn't be without dc2 but I knew when I was prg with dc2 that his father wsa a nasty bully, which was quite upsetting, even though I was 'strong'.

mathanxiety same here, after the birth of each child my usually bad-humoured unobliging x became even more unreasonable and shockingly selfish and cruel. 3 wks after birth of dc1 he told me to shape up or ship out. And he thought that he'd taken as much as any reasonable man could be expected to 'take'.

I had the same worries as you too, he used to rough-handle my dc1, once he nearly dislocated her shoulder trying to push her out of the way of the tv. I hated him already at that point. SHe was 3. And I recognised that I was begging her to be not just well-behaved but unnaturally subdued around him. For an easier life. I really hated myself for that, but didn't know what else to do.

digitalis my dc2 is on the spectrum and already xp has tried to take out dc1 on their days out, but not dc2. It was like a switch going off when he heard dc2 was on the spectrum. If dc1 doesnt do well at school it'll be all my fault because I'm thick and on benefits! My x also used to spring into action and change nappies if people were watching. NEVER usually did it.

ps bertie

you say that everybody says to you 'oh everybody has trouble after first baby'. Yes, I had this problem too. I let myself be talked into going back to xp, even though I KNEW I should say, "no, it's not just new baby relationship wrinkles, this is a lot more than that! he's cruel, he undermines me constantly, he blames me, criticises me" ... and the one that nobody can argue with "I don't love him even a tiny bit and he certainly doesn't love me". I wish I'd said that.

Hi, have been reading this thread and other related ones gradually over last few days and had that light bulb moment... but... not sure if x has NPD or just wankerdom

He finally left me , us one baby his age 8 months then, and my DD aged 9 in April

The points that have lept out at me in general are..

LIES big ones small ones medium sied ones pointless ones

He asked me to marry him SOO quickly,

He has no friends, noone was good enough, they all "let him down"

He has a previous wife and child he has no contact with "it was too painful, she kicked him out and wouldn't let him near his son....

Jekyll and Hyde throughout, well apart from the first 6 months when he was mr bloody perfect
and Oh My God, if something in the house (MY HOUSE) got broken... was like I'd deliberately done it, Swung on the curtains just to pull the rail down?!!
Unhealthy association with sex and love.. me not up for it that night = me not loving him enough

always always telling me his biggest downfall was his conscience... he obviously has non as he's abandoned us all

when he finally left, threw his toys out of the pram and I didn't beg him to come back, as I used to he alternated between coming round saying how wretched he was, how he missed us, would I have him back, to being vile, keying my car smashing up my garden etc etc

His last contact was when he told me he'd reported me to the police for fraud because I'd signed his name on the registration documents of a scooter that I'd bought on my credit card but was in his name and he'd told me many times to just sell it, so I sold it !.... by this point I knew he was lying (about calling the police) so just hung up on him and I've not heard a peep since. couple of weeks ago.

My lowest moment was one day in the middle of it all he came round to see his daughter and she did something funny and I commented how beautiful she was and his reaction was like I'd commented on someones new car, "mmm yes "just nothing there, no connection no real love for his own baby.

Anyway, there's more, there's less, I'm not sure if he's NPD or another personality disorder, but I just want to thank you all lovely, incredibly eloquent,ladies for opening my eyes to something I would never have considered and hence helped me start to heal from an incredibly painful and seemingly pointless breakup. (and incredibly destructive and controlling relationship in lovely retrospect)I now feel relieved to have escaped him, and thankful that my daughters will have no contact with such a twisted human beingfo

onwards and upwards, the worst is now past I think , for all of us xx

g

I agree with Digitalis that NPD seems to escalate from 40 yrs on. Certainly that has been my experience. Ex h has become more self absorbed, more manipulative, obsessed about his weight and diet and is buying more and more clothing that is not age appropriate. I think that as he realises he will never have the status of a big house and flash car anymore, he is spending more time on his 'body' as a form of status. You would not believe the amount of 'grooming' that he goes through each day, the money spent on clothes, the constant weighing of himself, the grooming gadgets and products...

As a young father he basically 'opted out' giving the excuse that, because I bf the babies there was little he could do to meet their needs. He never bathed them, even once. Yet he had strong opinions about how the children should be cared for. He insisted that I stay with them until they fall asleep each night, probably because of some issue around his own upbringing. Everything in terms of the pracical stuff was left to me. I dressed them for example because 'I was so much better at it - he just couldn't understand how the babygro did up.'

As the dc got older he saw his role as their instructor. It was his role to teach them about morality, to mould them into model citizens. If the kids squabbled he would spend a huge amount of time disecting what had happened, who said what etc until he had got to the bottom of it and asigned responsibility. Every naughty act had to have a punishment, no matter how small. He told me that the dc had to be disciplined like training a dog. The 'naughty step' was rarely vacant.

He did not play with the dc. His only activity was to offer to kick a ball backwards and forwards on the road, despite living next to a green area. But playing football on the green would have meant running around a lot more.
He never read to them, built lego, pushed cars around the floor, set up the army, took them out on their bikes, took them swimming etc etc. I did those things.

As my eldest ds got older and began to develop a mind of his own his Dad punished him with emotional abuse. So if ds didn't want to watch the dvd his Dad got out, then he was excluded from eating the treats that the younger two got. If ds didn't want to accmpany his Dad out, then his Dad would tell him he would not be fulfilling a promise he had made to do something else at a later stage. This was how it worked for me too.

After we split and I allowed him to visit the dc at home, he spent his time lying on the couch using the lap top. When I mentioned his lack of interaction he justified it by saying he was there so the dc didn't forget him.

Yep fuckadoodle, that sounds like my ex. These Personality Disorders are a minefield. As others have said, remember the spectrum and the fact that these people are never going to have just one clear-cut PD - there are lots of schizoid personality problems going on inside them.

My h had no friends; nobody was good enough for him (apart from posh people or famous people); friends he had when I met him were weird and he abandoned them anyway; his family are entirely raging and dysfunctional; he too had an exp and two daughters whom he has abandoned along with me (wife) and our baby.

These men are hideous. Deformed. There is very little that can help them. The therapists in this world are kept busy and remunerated by dealing with US - their victims..the ones they leave behind all trashed, wrecked and bloodied.

My h has reinvented himself. It all still feels desperately surreal to me - to be a single parent, to have been abandoned with no support at all, to know that my husband is having sex with prostitutes and living an entire lie abroad, and that I am even divorcing him in isolation as he has not bothered responding.

We had a Catholic wedding, a church job, he had even converted to catholicism ffs. I saw an email he sent me once after he had gone but which I had blocked - he called me a 'cheeky shit' in it. He threatened me in another. It's bloody horrible.

They make you lose your marbles while you are IN a relationship with them...and it takes a long time to get your marbles back afterwards.

Yes, thank god we have got away. But it has so traumatised my life. I was thinking today...not only did steal our money when he ran away, but he has stolen from me so much more - my chance of another child, my marriage, my religion (can't face Mass as I would blub terribly), my sanity for quite a while, my future as a family unit, my step-daughters, my son's half-sisters, the list goes on.

In the last two and a half years I have changed dramatically and come to see and understand so much about PDs and about what has led me to have relationships with these men. But it is a very very arduous process. Fascinating and challenging yes. But also frightening and emotionally draining.

I have cut loose from my entire family apart from one brother. I have lost so much.

But now, I thank god and anyone else who will listen, that I am finally changing my entire outlook. I have gained/am gaining back THE REAL ME (ironically threalme, your name has a lot of resonance. It's like a rebirth isn't it? the momentous realisation that you have been trained to be bait and fodder for these type of men and have been thoroughly abused most of your life.)

I am most thankful of all that my boy is not growing up within our 'marriage'... and that he will never know the man that is his father - a sexual deviant and predator, an abuser, a pathological liar, a thief, mysogynist and a mentally fucked-up nut.

He could do fractions and percentages though whereas I can barely add up my fingers.

Let's keep bolstering ourselves to get over these shitbags and on with our lives as best and happily as possible.

I for one finally rang a counsellor again today - and have booked a first session. One that knows about NPD.

Sorry for long ramble.

Welcome Fuckadoodledoo (great name btw).

Whether your ex is an N or not it sounds like you have been to hell and back over the last few months, and you're coping really well.

Many of us have found it helpful to be able to pin a label on these guys because it really helps to understand why your life has been destroyed in an instant and that it isn't your fault, your're not nuts and to gain support from others who understand.

There seem to be so few people in RL that you can talk to about this kind of thing without their eyes glazing over or them thinking you're insane. And of course N's are notorious charmers.

It seem as though one way to tell if your ex was an N is to look at your families. It's likely that you may have an N as a parent or relative in your family of origin and almost certainly your ex will.

They'll often have a trail of destructive relationships behind them too which it sounds like yours has.

I hope this is useful and do keep posting if it helps!

Totally agree Digitalis - labelling them is very helpful. Makes sense of the madness.

And agree too, that most people in RL glaze over or look at you as though you are some fruitloop when you mention 'I think he has a personality disorder - possibly NPD'... the old eyebrows go up and you can see them thinking 'god she doesn't realise that he was just an arse - she is making excuses for him'

No no no, we are NOT making excuses - (especially with a PD like Narcissism because they know exactly what they are doing that is harmful but they Just Go Ahead And Do It Anyway) - and we are not denying they have been total abusive shits. It's just very important, as part of the recovery process, to know that it was not all your fault, and that their freakish behaviour has a name and a label and has been identified and studied.

I sometimes feel like my brain has blown all its fuses just trying to cope with what happened. I have symptoms of PTSD. Again, sadly, normal in somebody who has been trashed by an N.

Yes yes yes!!!
Knowing about NPD is so important. I knew I was married to a nasty man. I read all the sympathy posts on my home site, all the references to 'abuse' and 'unacceptable behaviour'

It wasn't till I was advised to look up NPD that I suddenly realised what had been happening to me.
Yes I was being emotionally, mentally, verbally and financially abused ; but there was more to it then that. It was so complex to try to figure out that it left my head in a complete tangle - no wonder I never spoke to anybody about my relationship, I couldn't understand what was going on myself.
But....when I started to read and learn about PD's it all started to make sense. I found the answers to questions and I found the questions to ask. His behaviour was explained and more importantly, the person I had become was explained too.

It has been a great source of comfort to me to be able to, finally, have an explanation for the last 17 years worth of confusing and exhausting living with my ex.
The guilt that has dominated and subdued my life is finally beginning to lift. It is a huge release and I am only now beginning to recognise how I have lived as a ghost throughout my marriage.

Keep telling me about NPD.

therealme - you sound like you're one step ahead of him now, which is excellent.

On the subject of cutting off someone's educational achievements as mentioned by others - I've experienced the opposite, narcs pushing me to take the highest degrees, the most prestigious jobs so that they could take reflected glory. Meanwhile though their self-entitlement meant that they didn't have to work themselves as they had their various "special projects" they were working on. When it came to the fact this gave them little money, their fear of shame meant that they, for instance, would ask me for cash before we went out in a group so that they wouldn't be seen to be paid for but, out of the view of others, they found nothing wrong in being financially supported by me.

I think one of the great things that results from knowing about NPD and the role it plays in relationships is that we can escape from the myth that "it takes two" to destroy a relationship. Oh sure, nobody's perfect, but in the case of trying to "make it work" with an N, the most perfect partner in the world is not going to succeed if their OH is an N. One of the really stupid things I had to deal with in the marriage counseling we went to was this notion that we each had a role in the breakdown of things to the point they had reached at that stage. Even though you may know you're married to someone capable of nastiness and cruelty, you still think he might change, all he needs is an insight into how much he's hurting the one he loves, and things will get better. The truth is they know everything about the effect their actions and words are having, but they sincerely don't care, and the more insights you give them, the more they know about how to mistreat you. What kind of moron needs to be told that calling someone names hurts their feelings and they might not want to have sex with you afterwards?
Knowing about NPD really speeds up the learning and decision process. Without this key clue, a lot of us would still be blindly optimistic that we could make things work, that the Ns cared as much about us as we did about them and valued our relationships and the life-enhancing possibilities in them the same way that we did. Knowing about NPD means we can now see the forest, not just the trees.

UA -- so sad you've lost so much to him. Can you see yourself reclaiming any of it back even as revenge?

The mention of Ns dismissing paople as being beneath them or not good enough for them rings a bell exH used to spend a lot of his time criticising his co-workers to me. Everyone was lazy, idle, worthless nobody did any work except him.

I also noticed that the more the children developed minds of their own, the more they recoiled from him, and also the more he took offence at their independence. But their success in school pleased his immense vanity.

A nAunti - my heart jolted when I read your words 'special projects' just now.

My x had exactly these. "Special projects" was the term he used precisely.

He was earning money through the german colluders as well as teaching in his respectable secondary school job...but in fact he delayed and delayed and procrastinated with the german stuff to the point of misery for me (while I was pregnant and then once the baby was born he would leave the work until the last minute, sometimes spending 24 hours over a whole weekend doing it and not interractng with me or the baby at all - and pretending to be oh so stressed).

Of course now that he is relying on this German work in Bangland (he doesn 't earn much teaching there and is paid in US dollars by the German colluders - nice one) he is NEVER late with the work, he never procrastinats and is oh-so schmoozy, efficient and grateful with the German employers. Snake snake snake.

NPD therealme - it stinks.

Math, it's s true that Ns will also do the opposite to cutting you off from education/achievement - and will instead push you to take on more prestigious and stressful jobs so that they can bask in the glory.

Once again, it shows that Ns are not all the same; they are all disgustingly exploitative and manipulative but their ways of getting what they want vary wildly.

Therealme what is happening with your X re his dropping by - has he agreed to certain fixed times for contact/calls? Remember. always try to think 'what is in this arrangement for ME' which I know is very hard to do after 17 years of being pulled in this and that direction by his demands and needs.

Therealme, God your x does sound like mine. The same excuses, the same style. I had to DO everything but I had to do it according to how he dictated it should be done.

My npd x will be forty in a few days, (not sending a card ) but he also had this vision of himself living in a beautiful five bedroomed edwardian house in godalming or somewhere like that, with a fleet of nice cars and in this fantasy, he was financial director of a blue chip company.

The fact that he hasn't achieved that will be in his mind ALL MY FAULT, as he had to concern himself with my 'tinpot parade' (leaving him) and the stress I caused him by not supporting him.

He actually does have a good job, and he owns (100% owns! v.clever, my name was never anywhere near the deeds or the mortgage) a nice house in a nice area but it's not his vision.

He often used to say I never supported him in his vision. I was exhausted from doing everything practical. There was no room for me to have a vision or a goal of course!

UA If you want to go to mass, you go, and with your head held up high. I was so embarrassed to take my children to church when I first got back here, but I wanted them to have a bit more of a 'base' in this town. dykwim?? being involved with a church is another solid structure. (SO i hope). We don't go every sunday but we go every second sunday roughly and I enjoy all the fetes and sales and i did go to the tot group when my son was younger. I felt like the shamed woman when I first started going, like, how do i have the NERVE!!

Anyway, people I'd been afraid might judge me, or might be smug.. they were all kind.

The very People I would have envied for their perfect lives come up to me and told me how they wished their sister had been as brave as me (everybody knew everything !! ).

TRM I am remembering, flashback style, how my x wouldn't go over 12 stone. He was 6 foot. He paid more than I did for a hair cut. I would have had to buy a whole outfit on what he paid for one Paul Smith item. I was like an unpaid maid in that relationship. He ALSO had the gall to tell me once that 9 stone was more than I should weigh at five foot one,andthat his mother (five foot five) only weighed 8 and a half stone when she was my age!!!

I can't believe now I didn't stick a pitchfork through his eyes right there and then!!!! I stayed for about another 2 years after that.

OMG ladies, the more I read this thread the more I am!
X (last time I saw him, have managed not to see him for nearly 4 months) was always going on about his weight and how his trousers didnt fit.
Always wanted to live in a Victorian house. Despite the fact that he supposedly "doesn't want to be a poet any more" he was still happy to have 300+ friends on Facebook and invite most of them to his "commitment ceremony/handfasting"
His comment on that btw, was "My marriage to (OW) is not a legal thing. You know why I'm doing it"
Its ALL about image.
I have repeatedly told him that I cant see him while he is married (after he asked if I would be his mistress )so his response the other day (by text) was:

"You are right we had our chances. Take care of yourself. Look after our DD"

No, HE had his chance. And she is not OUR DD. She is MY DD. He is a sperm donor who wanted to use DD to retain control over me, and didnt like it when I resisted. DD alone provides no Supply to him, esp when I am not even present at handover time.

I dont know if that means he's finished with me, it is not the first time he has sent that sort of message in order to provoke a response. We'll see.

Sorry for rant. I am really upset (tho why should I be surprised???) and have mastitis because I am so tired and run down.

But I know I am lucky because I have pretty much managed to get him out of our lives.

To all of you who still have to endure these N's, I wish you love and strength.

I was going to write a long post with all the similarities in - it's so healing to realise I'm not the only one living with someone like this. But I've just now got a real problem I need help with, I have no idea what to do.

Basically we are living in this rented house rented from a friend of P's, so I don't feel comfortable kicking him out to live here myself with DS. Anyway we haven't been that happy because his landlord role seems to consist of when he wants to come and fix something he will, if he doesn't it will be a week or two. He redid the whole house as well, cheaply, so for example we have got very thin carpet everywhere with no underlay which makes the house cold (and the floor hard for DS to fall over on) there are a few other things as well, all minor, nothing compared to where we lived before which was managed by an agency, rubbishly. But we are paying too much for it.

Anyway P through his computer work has been supporting a local estate agents and happened to ask if they had any places for rent in our budget (ie housing benefit allowance) which were slightly bigger, they had, so he asked them to phone me. He rang me yesterday very briefly to say "Just to let you know some time this week someone will ring you from this letting agency" - now this is absolutely typical P, he gets an idea in his head and just acts directly on impulse and expects everyone else to follow along behind. So although we have casually discussed moving somewhere else we have not sat down and talked about it properly. And I am worried now that it will all happen very quickly and it's worrying me because the house is too big for him to be able to afford on a single person's housing benefit (which I think he will still get because of his low salary), it's within the allowance I will get for a 2-bed house but it is a 3-bed (though I suppose there is nothing wrong with that, it's just I won't need 3 bedrooms!) - I don't want to mess the people around but I don't know if it would be an option for me to move in and get him not to. There's also still the issue of a deposit, I have no idea where P thinks we will get a deposit from.

Argh! What should I do?

Blimey... tough one. ARe you ready to leave him yet, or are you only working up to i?

In a way, it's a good thing that you're in rented accommodation. There is no 'bricks and mortar' tying you to him.

Start bit by bit putting anything precious in your Mum's house, or a friend. Tough if you haven't confided in anybody yet.

I think, if you're determined enough you could talk to women's aid. don't feel that your relationship isn't bad enough, or that he hasn't treated you badly enough. You're quite trapped right now. they will be able to advise you about housing.

But I'm guessing that if you've just begun to see him for what he is, then you're probably not ready for such drastic change yet. And that's NOT a criticism. It took me YEARS to leave.

xxx

I don't know, honestly, whether I am ready to leave yet. But I don't want to go through all the hassle of moving and then leave - IYSWIM.

I feel very lucky that I have only been in this relationship for 2.5 years - for that reason I doubt it will be years until I do leave. I also need to leave before March as he is due to inherit lots of money and I don't want anything to do with it. I went to the CAB yesterday and they advised that there are 4 options for housing - staying with friends/family (not an option unless it was very short term, ie about a week or less as no room), going into a WA refuge (but that is only if violence involved), making myself homeless (but again as no violence they would say I was "intentionally homeless" - they might not but it's at the HB discretion) so the only other option is private rented accommodation, and having no money of my own (I have savings and birthday money of £650, gutted about using this as I was going to learn to drive to give myself more independence) I have not got enough for a deposit + first month's rent. HB is paid in arrears. How do they expect you to do it? P is going to notice if I save up money and it will take too long because I have no money of my own. Thinking of opening a secret bank account and putting an overdraft on it, but my credit rating is not v. good. Also, they will stop benefits etc while they reassess my claim.

I did have an idea that if I can get onto a university course this year I would be eligible for a student loan which would cover my housing costs, uni courses start in October and lots are dong clearing which means I have a better chance of getting in, but I don't know if I have enough grades from prev qualifications. So I thought about doing A Levels this year, I might be able to get help from college access fund as well. I do want to go back to education, don't think I'm just using it as a way to get free money - I think it will help my job prospects in the future and give me back a bit of self worth (and easier than trying to find part time work and nursery at the moment as well)

Which reminds me I need to phone the local college and have a chat with them.

Oh and I forgot to mention when I was at CAB yesterday I was feeling ok about everything until they started mentioning CSA and maintenence and everything and then I suddenly felt scared and like this is all too grown up for me to deal with. Which is stupid because I am grown up and can deal perfectly well with DS, household bills, budgeting etc. I just feel like I am playing a game and am just a kid and too young and stupid to know what I am doing. Other voice in my head (the nice one ) says I might only be 21 but I am capable and I do have people around to give moral support and help out if I would stop being so stubborn and just tell them.

Wow you have so many thoughts in your head right now. And all of them depend on something else going right/your way first. You certainly see your future without him, it's just a question of logistics isn't it? But they are a big enough hurdle.

Even if you can put away a few pounds a week in a secret accout do that.

Making yourself 'intentionally homeless' is dramatic. But it might be a worthwhile sacrifice.

Could you spend a few months with your Mum or your parents or a sister? I am only able to drive now because they supported me, I was able to afford the driving lessons because I was living with them, and I could use their car. x never allowed me to drive his car as I hadn't passed my test. I never passed the test because I got no practise!

My mum's house is too small really. Could probably spend a week or two there but not months. I obviously did live there once - but not with DS, and it was cramped enough with me, my mum and sister. Also she got rid of my bed to make room so would be on the sofa, not ideal as I co-sleep with DS and he doesn't settle well in a cot so we would all be up all night.

Will be back in a minute, DS is teething and sleepy and need to take him round the block!

Hi Bertie

Sorry to hear of the difficulties you are facing but great to hear that you are getting it straight in your head what you need to do!

How about cutting and pasting your query into a new thread on relationships where you can ask others for practical advice who may have been through similar and know more about the benefits system?

I expect you'd get a lot more replies as this thread is large and people won't always wade through it.

You can still post on here about NPD as your posts are visibly gaining in confidence!

Good luck!