Narsissistic personality disorder

[therealme]

I'm English, living overseas. I'm married for 17 yrs and most of that has been pretty awful. I recently 'came clean' about my abusive relationship with dh on a parenting site where I live and I have had my eyes opened for the first time that maybe it's not all my fault anymore. I have blamed myself for everything that has 'gone wrong' in my marriage - although I have genuinly messsed up on more than one occasion.

I received a lot of support from people but didn't believe I was worthy of it. Then somebody suggested I google Narsissistic Personality Disorder and that is the moment my whole world changed. For the very fist time I began to see that maybe it wasn't ME that might have all the problems. I saw my 'perfect' dh described in black and white and the words 'personality disorder' were attached to his behaviours. To say the ground shifted from under me would be an understatement.

So now I find myself at a turning point in my life. I know I have to end my marriage. It's emotionally, verbally and mentally abusive. I now recognise that I am a shell of the person that I once was, have had the life blood drained out of me, but still have enough of a spark in me to want to fight for some peace of life at 42! I have 3 children whom I love and adore - but who also love their Daddy. I'm living financially independently from my dh who refused to support me financially after ds 2 was born 6 yrs ago. I want him out of the house and out of my life!

I've made my mind up, but I am still so weak when it comes to taking action. I have spent so long living in a confused and guilt-ridden state, does that make sense?
Is there anybody out there who has experience of living with a narsissistic partner? How do you make the break? How do you ever find the strength to stand up to them in order that you might have some quality of life left for yourself? Please advise.....

sorry about the messed up English!

Just re-read my post and I want to say I dont want to frighten anyone with the line "I think I have N traits". I just think I want to work out for myself, and show others, the array of damaging effects of having been in contact with a narcissist. ANd I think I am also reaching a crossroads with my MIL too and I am using mumsnet as a sounding-board. I think to stay in contact with her I will have to be really really strong as a person to counteract any negative influence she might have on my children (Im thinking she might play them off against each other, making them obligated and beholden to her and feeling responsible for her etc) I`m not sure if I am strong enough for this or not.

We are such an amazing group of people. We are all saying and experiencing and suffering the same things. I for none am finding it comforting. There are other support forums for survivors of Ns but the main one is american and they often write in text speak and the posts are too short!

Sakura, I think the reason you have all these thoughts about whether it's you or them who is an N, is quite easily explained by the fact that you are still with your H and still mixing a lot with his family. You can't see the wood for the trees. I say again, if you have these conscious thoughts - questioning your own motives, examining your own behaviour, asking yourself over and over if you are an N - then you are definitely NOT one.

I think we people who get involved with Ns do have 'ishoos' however...issues from our childhoods mostly. In many cases it seems, from not being loved by an N parent, being 'trained' as they call it to think of others before ourselves, to fear authority, to have little self-esteem...I could go on but it's a book.

I too am one of five children and up until two and a half years ago was very much in 'the cult' or 'the system' as I now call it. I had an epiphany and began cutting contact with my entire family. I got BACK in contact with my oldest brother after ten years. He and I are now out of the cult totally and able to laugh at their madness. That is good therapy in itself.

The shocking thing - yes shocking I agree - is realising that we were not actually loved at all. Not properly. In my case by my mother (who now calls me a nasty little bitch) who was faking it and living in a fantasy world - she is a pathological liar - but also, as you say realme, by our husbands whom we DID love and slept with.

I have found it, also, extremely hard to understand this. But 14 months on, it doesn't matter. I look at the marriage and time with him as not wasted, because I have my beautiful baby boy and because I have LEARNED so much about myself.

I am more myself now than I have ever been: I was a high-flying media queen with lots of money and a mad life. But I became a journo because my mother suggested it. She wanted all her five kids to be different and unique and special in their jobs - a reflection of herself of course. Because she never worked in her life! She was bloody lazy and a crap cook and a terrible snob. Not that I saw or realised any of that for 42 years.

Anyway, now I am a cleaner, on benefits, a single parent, I wear pink nail varnish and am going to get a tattoo. Yes, that's right...the convent-educated, university-educated, TV glamour girl was just a chav with limited ambition underneath all the time

Anyway, as time goes on realme, and you read and read and read and obsess about NPD ( - we all do it] you will, as Math says, have more power. Information is indeed power in our circumstances.

I agree strongly that you must not allow your xh to come and go as he pleases. It will do your head in. Contact with Ns does your head in. You will have enough contact and head-doing-in-ness when the divorce process gets nasty as it probably will.

I am not sure that it is good for the DCs either. The fact is, you have separated and they need to get used to the idea. Change the patterns. Remember the WA Bill of Rights...it applies now. Right now.
You have the Right to say NO
You have the Right to control your own life and to change it if you are not happy with it You have the Right NOT to be responsible for other adults' problems

and, that main Right:

You have the Right to tell him to tell him to stick his bloody hair-trimming scissors where the sun don't shine.

Good god he sounds such a pig. Get him OFF YOUR BED. Get that parenting plan written, ask him to take the DCs out when he visits even if it's macdonalds, and tell him if he cannot take them back to his mother's place for their tea in the evenings, then he cannot see them at all at those times, as it is too confusing for THEM to have him wandering about your place with hair hanging out of his face and suffering from narcolepsy. Lazy stupid bastard.

Honestly, one day you will laugh. A bit. Not yet my love, not yet - you are still in the VERY early days of recovery. You still can't make decisions because you are learning to walk after the car-crash of your marriage.

It will all come though. You are gathering strength, re-charging your battered mind and gaining a deeper insight into it all everyday.

The fact that you know he fell 'in love' with a reflection of yourself is a good thing to have recognised too. You are still that person remember. She is just taking her time, after 17 years of being sabotaged, to re-emerge.

I don't think that was long enough

Thank you Unlikely,
Sorry to keep making it all about ME here. I I felt a bit teary just now I read what you wrote about being certain that Im not a Narcissist. That was such a validating thing to hear from someone who knows <span class="italic">exactly</span> where Im coming from.
And I know its all to do with my H`s family (and him too).

Can I ask you what you think about this?
I cut contact with MIL when DD was 5 months old because her behaviour was INSANE and making me insane too. SHe was bullying me, knowing I was in a very vulnerable position. She used to turn up at my flat randomly on almost a daily basis.

ANyhow... DH finally took my side after I geniunely threatened divorce. I didnT see her for 2 months. This took an inordinate amount of strength to do. After that DH began taking DD to see her on a Sunday without me, which suited me (and I felt sorry for MIL!). MIL now teaches martial arts everyweekend (she has so much energy you wouldnt believe) so DH takes DD much less. I see her very rarely: about once every 6 weeks or so (she lives 5 mins down the road.)
SO on the one hand she has accepted my boundaries and I feel I have to give her credit for this. My own mother would never have accepted this kind of boundary-laying. On the other hand, she is snidey on the few times I do meet up with her, and I know that if I let her get close again she would start the nastiness again.
Ok, here is what I want to ask. Me and DH are desparate for a night out together on our own. There are no babysitters here (its not the done thing) and we haven`T had a night out alone together since DD was born three years ago! The only person we can ask is MIL. What should I do?

therealme,
Believe me I know how much inner strength it takes to set the boundaries, but you have already started to do so with your ex. Take your time, take a deep breath but you are going to have to take the boundary-laying to the next level when you feel strong enough. Boundary is such a good word. Its like building a fence around you (with a little gate in it for a few special people like your children). You have to reinforce the strength of the fence as time goes on.

sakura I have to go out but will think about this and get back to you this afternoon.

Initial instinct is NOT to ask her.

Therealme - I think your H hanging about asking you to do stuff is maybe the equivalent of the one I knew constantly having crises that needed sorting out. It's their way of not letting you go.
The crises stopped when he found another victim, which mercifully for us was very quickly. Hope its the same for you as otherwise he has no supply, as you say.
Or- you get the legal stuff to spell out the terms of contact as someone said earlier.
You WILL get through this.

.....just agreeing with UA here, after 2+yrs, at least I know I came out of that dreadful dysfunctional relationship with two beautiful children - not a pot to piss in and some fairly jagged emotional scars,,,,,,,,,, but, after getting through the worst of the PTSD (mostly spent torturing myself wondering HOW he could have dehumanised me like that!! then came the calmer, less distressing navel-gazing about why I'd got into that situation.

Anyway, eventually, all the horrible questions going round in your brain settle down. You find some answers. You learn to live wiht the answers you can't find. Or you detach enough not to care.

TheRealMe, I can't believe he is coming around every ten minutes helping himself to food and napping in your bed! how bloody annoying, and he's still asserting himself as 'the man of the house'. Can you get a more structured arrangement re visitation on the 8th October? or will that have to be done separately?

Mathanxiety, removing children from their 'habitual domicile' is potentially problematic, legally. HOWEVER, my solicitor told me a year ago that the tide is turning! 3 years ago he said that all judges would just rule "apply the hague convention", "apply the hague convention" in every case, without looking at the specifics or the individuals. He reckons that now, judges are beginning to differentiate between say an English mother who takes her uk born kids to Australia with her new partner... and a single mother, returning with her children to her place of birth for the support of the extended family.

Obviously this is just what one solicitor told me. Just having his feelers out and keeping an eye on cases that were along these lines as mine. He gave me good advice which enabled to 'get away' with violating the hague convention. So, it's not impossible. hth

Hi therealme,
Your post Thur 03-Sept-09 22:43:00 about being nothing but supply was well written and is the core of the pain/sadness that I am/was trying to express earlier.

Thank you for sharing that, it is helping me, too.

That is the reason why lovely Middle Sister will not pick up the phone and simply say "What's up?". (Of course communication by email-well, I suppose that would just disgust her-not personal enough to meet her standard. )

Therealme-Why on earth are you letting him in your home? He is the personification of the plague on your life (and your dc's too). Do what Unlikely advised-set the boundaries. It will be similar to the parenting plan you discussed for the dc regarding x h...now put yourself on your list and do a "humanity" plan for yourself. A stray dog should get more compassion from you than x slimey-toxic-shit-face-crusty-turd-arse h.

Hi Sakura-The feeling I get from considering reestablishing contact is a shudder of ... having the same nightmare start all over again.
I would say one night out would not be worth the possibility of the continuing trying consequences. I think you might be "paying" for the one night out a hundred times over.

Sakura-you are not a narcissist! It would have been quite obvious to many of us here or on the Stately thread by now if you were even a little bit. I think you may feel like an alien in the foreign culture you are submerged in-permanently? So sticking up for yourself, your roots and culture, is about who you are which doesn't involve grinding someone else to dust for your happiness or self-validation.

I am not on the stately thread..shall i come and moan and mini-psychoanalyse the pants off everyone over there too??

Sakura, I have given it some thought.

How strong and balls-of-steely are you? I mean, can you be a real hard-butt and transform your thinking so that you just use this woman?? (I know that is what N's do but they don't consciously think of it as I am suggesting )

If you can develop a tough outer-crust then, given that you are still married and in this situation re his family etc, why not use it to your advantage?

So: yes, get the MIL to babysit. You are putting your own needs first in asking this of her...it is neither a favour to her or a favour to your children. See it as a favour to yourself.

BUT you would have to remain ambivalently cool in the asking. In fact, because they are such contrary and icy creatures, she may well say No.

So ask her. Make it an experiment. If she says yes, set boundaries: she must arrive just before you two go out and leave as soon as you get back.

If she demures, the deal is OFF. YOU are in control (we non-Ns sound like OCD control freaks!! ha ha ha ha)

If you think she may be snidey or nasty about you to the DCs in your absence however, then do not ask her at all. I mean that. They love to screw around with their grandchildren because they are good supply.

The thing is sakura, I am not sure what culture/country you are from so it is hard to advise in a way that fits your needs.

Maggie my father abused my sister and I while my mother was out. I tried telling her once when I was about 18...to save my sister who was still stuck at home with him. She slapped me down with 'do not talk about your father like that.' I have never confessed that before to anyone. I told my mother what he did the other day in our last ever phone conversation. She put the phone down on me. I am 45 and she still put the phone down on me. It hurts. But not as much as HIM then ringing me back and accusing me of lying

This is not fatherly love and it is definitely not motherly love.

But.. (and I know this sounds a bit oxfam-wanky)....Think of children in romania who are orphans, in africa whose parents have been murdered, of children all over the world who have survived and even done great things without their parents to help or support them. If they can, we certainly can.

One last thought: we survivors perhaps know how to love to the n-the degree because we were so bloody unloved. Remember, some siblings in a family where there are N parents turn into their parents...they become Ns. Because the parent does not treat each child the same. They make puerile, inadequate distinctions: the golden child, the black sheep, the slapper and whore and the ugly one - whatever. But you know what? We unloved ones have somehow turned out gorgeous inside
because we can see it all and have empathy and passion and loving-ability and a strong sense of moral justice in spades. Somehow. I can't explain it.

I visualise my N ex as having the electric wire attached to him with plug, looking for any socket to get stuck into and that's not a sexual reference! They take it where they can, drain it, suck it up, leave the source when it's of no further use (or they're kicked out and therefore forcibly disconnected), it's so true how they like to keep that original source 'warm' to return to at a later date, if they so choose. It's taken me a full 2 years to understand and recover from the experience, having also been raised with a N mother, ex tried to plug in again recently and I was so proud not to allow any chink in my psyche that he could invade.

golly, hello serajen. Welcome to therealme's kick-start-us-lovelies thread. 2 years seems to be a bit of a leitmotif for us all. I am nearly two years down the line (actually it's 15 months now I think about it.)

Are you ok?

About the babysitting, I would not ask the MIL. You know what you are thinking and intending, but the MIL might interpret it completely differently and then you might end up back on the merry go round all over again. Is there any college or university near you where there are foreign students who might be more used to the idea of babysitting, who might be available? Check on facebook for possible candidates? Or get in touch with the college to see about students? Or if there's an expat community where there are nannies, how about borrowing a nanny for an evening? Boundaries, and the lack of them, are the nub of the question with those who are dealing with an N. They are like human tanks. If you give them an inch they will take a mile. So no earhair thing, and gosh, no letting him sleep on your bed. How did I miss that in your post? That is a very personal personal space violation. There was an important message of disrespect for you from him there.

Hello Unlikely and all other survivors, hey we've made it this far, still have enough of our faculties to put pen to paper. So true about the give an inch, they'll take a mile. I started a journal called Toxic Waste, a good name for him I feel, and when I look back at my writings I can still feel all that pain, confusion, anger, etc, etc. I lost 2 stone in weeks and became an uncurable insonmniac, he never missed a meal or a night's sleep. I think my N radar is so finely tuned now and that was a lesson I desperately needed to learn and today I'm thankful that I have retained the capacity to feel and empathise, something Ns can know nothing about.

UA I'm bowled over by the strength of anybody who has been through this twice, ie, if their parents put them through the mill.

My parents have a happy marriage and always encouraged us to think well of ourselves. They were good-humoured, easy-going, intelligent, supportive and there was always a happy atmosphere at home. And yet I still ended up with an NPD 'on the rebound'; dumped by a man I was crazy about.

If I hadn't had my parents to prop me up afterward I left my npd x, I wouldn't have been strong enough. SO I just completely take off my hat in total respect to any of you who've been through this emotional wrangle twice and still have a sense of humour to boot!!

I know what you mean about being more yourself now. I used to be a broker in The City and I just stumbled into it and didn't know how to stumble out of it!!! I feel I know myself well enough now to know that the mistakes are behind me. Sounds oxfam-wanky as you'd say yourself! but never again will I make a decision so that things look right to the outside world looking in.

Thank you to everyone who replied about my dilemma!
UNlikely, Its going to sound unbelievable because my English has regressed so much but I`m actually from the UK .

TMSB, Thank you again about me not being a narcissist comment! Its always deep down though, isn`t it. I mean if they ended up like that because of some terrible early deprivation or abuse then...
But yes, I think my case of self-doubt all boils down to me having done a lot of inconsiderate things in my teens towards others and now me thinking that that person is who I am now. But of course its not: I was just a very troubled teen battling with huge emotional trauma.

mathanxiety, I know I KNOW that to ask MIL to babysit is a green light for her to start up again.

But...

First of all I have changed since DD was born almost 3 years ago. I am guilty of what happened to me to a certain extent because I think I was looking for a mother figure. I was 22 when I met my DH and we married within a year or so of meeting. So then to find out she was not a mother figure, but was actually working against me was too unbearable to fathom.

I have processed all this information now. I have accepted that I have no mother at all. NOt in my mother, my MIL or my husband. THe only thing I can do is be a mother to myself and this change of thought process has helped me a lot. Rather than feel alone I feel connected to things more than before: to music, to nature, art etc because that is where I derive my comfort, being as I will not use my children to fill up this gaping hole (as my mother did with me). Or by using alcohol or pain (2 tattoos/self-harm) as I used to do.

SO I think I may ask her once and see how it goes. I think she will accept.

Unlikely,

I think the dawning realisation that your mother did not love you is quite high up there on the suffering scale. I googled "shame" last night. I read that when you are abused as a child you carry your abusers shame around with you. ANd that humans all have a need to be seen for who they really are. SO if you belive you are a useless piece of shit, or evil (Hitler) you need the world to see the real you at any cost. That is why alcoholics and drug addicts are such a mess. Rather than admit that their mother was wrong and they are worthy human beings, they would rather keep pretending that their mother did in fact love them (the alternative is too unbearable to contemplate!) and that she was right, so they do her bidding by drinking themselves to death or in many cases committing suicide.
I have experienced something similar. I have put myself in mortal danger so often-- from sleeping with unkown men without a condom, to accepting lifts from lone strange men in eastern block countries while drunk, to drinking myself into a stupor and passing out on the street. ALl because I believed my mothers mantra that I was just not worth being alive. <span class="italic">Admitting</span> that I am worth it meant that I had to accept that my mother didnt love me.
I think these people are very tortured.
Of course its not the same as seeing your child die- yes that kind of thing is on a different scale completely. But I don`t think its is easier than say becoming a refugee, for example.

By the way, my mother is a seriously crap cook too. Do you think its because of the lack of empathy?

Hi serajen
Welcome.
This has turned into a stately homes thread (sorry, the realme!) But its good to specifically address NPD because its so damn riveting.

Toomany, actually I posted that message (3rd Sept) on the Irish site that I first began on. I copied it because I wrote it without thinking, it was 'pure me' exposing how I feel right now about my married life. It kind of summed up the impact the last few weeks have had on me, ie, like someone had taken a sledge hammer to my head and as a result I am now walking around dazed and confused about my life - whilst running a house, starting kids back to school and not forgetting to feed them once in a while
Interestingly, the response I got was that I should stop analysing my ex's behaviour and just concentrate on the practical dealings of getting through the seperation.
I agree that being practical is essential right now. Of course I need to function. But tbh, I have functioned quite well under some very difficult situations while living with my h! This 'split' is just one more drama in a long list of other dramas for me.

I do feel the need to keep going over the past. I feel the need to keep reading on this whole PD thing. I am constantly trying to analyse ex h's behaviour to me in the light of what I have learned. I need to make sense of what has been happening to me!!
Does this make sense? Or should I do as I have been advised, ignore the past and concentrate on cooking fishfingers?

Keep on analyzing. Keep on trying to make sense of it. It is your life story after all. We all need to see where we fit in in the story of our own lives. We are normal, sane women, and we need a sense of narrative.

Researching, reading and talking with others who have been there is like exposing ourselves to the abuse in small, controlled, de-natured (intellectualised) doses; it's a little like giving ourselves an innoculation. I believe that after going through this process, at our own pace, we will no longer be vulnerable to the emotional response that the abuse now evokes in us. Then it can all be filed away in a box, labelled, and set aside. I haven't got right down to the bottom of it in my own digging, but I believe I will know when I will be able to stop. I think when that day comes I will feel a sense of ownership of my own life, and a sense of moving forward in love and peace.

Sakura, re cooking: Sorry, JFK, but "Ask not what you can do for your children, but rather what your children can do for you"?

Well yes, cooking can be an expression of love can`t it.

therealme,

I think mathanxiety is right: that intellectualising what has happened to you by reading self-help books and analyzing is a form of protection, an innoculation. Little pieces of pain will slip through the net as you go through the process. On the stately homes thread we call it the Onion layers. They peel back bit by bit the more you learn. And the more they peel back the more you discover the real you underneath. Your brain will only allow you to process a certain amount of pain at any given moment in case you implode. Sometimes your mind and body can`t continue and so you take a break. But then something will trigger you again and you peel of the next onion layer. I am going through this without psychotherapy but thats because I have no choice. I would love to have a therapist that I could trust to work everything out with, so maybe thats something you could look into to help you get everything sorted out in your mind?

Unlikely,
Its absolutely shocking about your father, and the fact that your mother accused you of lying. I have never experienced sexual abuse although a recent thread on mumsnet has made me realise Id never leave my DD with my father. But can I reccomend two films to you? The first is with Barbara STreisand (sp?)- Im not sure of the film title. She is being taken through court by her mother step-father for lying about being molested as a child. THey have had her sectioned before now and are making her out to be mentally ill. They are putting her through the courts to put her away for her own good "because she is sick and needs help." The mother is a classic enabler. Barbara Streisand is brilliant in it. As the story goes in the film, the mother realises at the very last moment that her daughter is telling the truth and apologizes and says "I didnt know". So a bit of poetic licence taken there I think to make the ending a bit more palatable to most people. But that film addresses your situation and it may possibly be cathartic? Im sorry if I`m way off the mark here.
ANother film is Dolores Clairborne, which is about a mother who does believe her daughter (Kathy Bates- again fantastic) and subsequently murders her husband. As the audience we feel that her murder is a perfectly acceptable and reasonable reaction to learning her daughter has been abused. Which puts your own mothers reaction a little bit into perspective

hi everyone. sorry to jump in on your thread. have been following through and the more i read the more it becomes real that my p is showing traits of this disorder. there i have finally written it. do u think i am reading more into it or just imagining it? or am i just thinkin that its worse than what it actually is?
he has many strange ways including everything always being my fault, if something goes wrong i worry about his reaction more than what has gone wrong. even if its clearly his fault he wil find some way to blame me. like a few weeks ago he knocked the laptop off the sofa and broke the modem. it was my fault however as i asked him to carry dd asleep in to bed when i could have done it myself, even though im pregnant.
he shows no remorse for the way he treats us. he will shout,scream and swear at us, see me getting anxious and distressed walk away come back an hour later and expect everything will be ok, no apology or remorse whatsoever. its almost like he doesnt no what he is doing is wrong he thinks its ok.

also he is obsessed with himself.when we were skint and living off jobseekers before dc came along he would still go out and buy designer stuff, would easily spend 100 on a top or hat or somethin and if i would say anythin about it, it would be my fault for being stingy. he is obsessed with his appearance alays have to be dressed in the best looking the best etc.
also he doesnt help at all around the house or with dc but is the first to go crazy if things arent to his satifaction. like yesterday he lazed in bed til 11 got up and told me i was lazy as i had only washed up and not sorted the washing. said he hates living in a shit hole with all the mess(i.e kids toys) and then went and sat on the sofa until he was ready to get in the bath and get himself ready.
there is so much more about him that fits the description of npd at first it scared me. but now it sort of makes sense and explains him. for years i have wondered how someone could be so cruel and generally not care about how his behaviour has hurt us. am i just thinkin his behaviour is worse than what it actually is or has he got a problem???
so sorry to gatecrash your thread. i have the most respect for all of you who have managed to escape and cope with all of this.

TheRealMe, the advice from Arnie on rc that your feelings about splitting up and starting a new life are no different from anybody else's feelings post-break-up are so wide of the mark. It is completely different. I've had 'normal' breakups.

Extricating your soul from an NPD is an entirely different situation.

I can say this here because I don't think he's reading this thread, but the man is a deluded nut-job. He sees himself as some kind of counsellor, and the advice he gives is nothing short of downright damaging sometimes. Some of his advice just makes me laugh, eg, why don't you sit down and write a cosy parenting plan (over tea and cucumber sandwiches presumably!!)....

When I left my x (and sorry that I keep harping back to this over and over again) I upset myself a LOT, by arguing with him on SP board, my right to have left the UK with children, I kept saying I had no choice (other than grinding poverty and misery, to oblige a man who'd treated me like a dog). He said I did, blah blah blah, arguing wiht

ARnie regurlarly drained me of the last few grams of energy I had. And that singleparenting board was supposed to be supportive. I never go on to it now. Some nights I went to bed crying becuase of arguments I'd had with that f*cker. I was pretty raw back then. Now I just raise my eyes to heaven at him. I picture him like compo from last of the summer wine. And he thinks he can help women coming out of abusive relationships?!!?!? He made my anxiety and stress levels worse. Although I know I shouldn't have engaged with those arguments.. But the man is petulant, manipulative, self-important....... I think he shows NPD traits himself. The very second I said, no can do, not meeting up with you buddy, he turned nasty on me. Publicly humiliating me on the board. ANd in his eyes, I need counselling.

Sorry for the rant.

So... the bottom line is, if it's Arnie's comments that are upsetting you, then try, try to tune them out. I tried to tell him to fuck off out of it early in the thread, but he can't accept that there might be a subject he knows little about!!!!!! In his mind, he knows far more about it than we do you know!! We actually know nothing! because we're too subjective. He's objective and can tell us how it really is. from his position of being a 60 yr old man who's never been a 40 year old woman who's wasted half of her life with a bully.
He is all over every board on RC premature babies (even though his son is 13) and step parenting and single parenting and relationships... the man is a scourge on that board.

mx

Message withdrawn

Really good advice squiggly.... I only had one counselling session, about 9 months after I'd left. I should have had a few more and sooner. By the time I did it I was over the worst. But a few techniques from the pros would have speeded me along the way to recovery. Even though I always knew that he was a nasty bully and that I wasn't weak/lazy etc, I had developed a stutter by the time I left. So, even if logically we know we aren't losers etc, there is the emotional part that needs nouriting.

I could have worked through all the emotions raging around in my mind a bit quicker, but you are wiser and more aware than I was. I don't think it'll take you as long to detach. But, wish I'd had a few sessions.

I agree, it is snakes and ladders to begin with. You live and learn!! I was one step forward and two steps backward to begin with...

Mathanx what is rc board? Is it another forum?

I agree with squiggly realme - about the need for you to think in hard-nosed legal terms from now on. He might and will say anything to anyone about the state of your 'relationship.'

You need a solicitor. You can a half hour free consultation (here anyway) with any number of them. Would you qualify for legal aid?

Even if not, I do strongly suggest you get one on board. Go and see CAB too. Is xh giving you set maintenance yet?

Also agree utterly with math about the very different emotions and practicalities surrounding splitting with an N. My N might as well have died - it was as though he had died. No contact, didn't really know where he was at first, frightening...would he return, snatch baby, kill me, how much else had he stolen, how on earth can he abandon his baby, his wife, his home and all possessions? He had been lying for a year at work but I didn@t know, looking at sex sites, I didn't know....

He had hidden his RealHim (!) so bloody well. It was NOTHING like breaking up from someone. It was traumatising. I have all the symptoms of PTSD which I now understand is quite normal in these kind of 'break ups.'

I too have had normal break-ups. This was no way the same in terms of emotional impact and outcome. Don't worry at all about thinking that this shit IS different...

also though, other people will probably not believe you about NPD. Which will make yoju want to bang your head against a brick wall. Keep reading about it, keep analysing, keep focused if it helps. It doesn't matter what other people think ultimately...there are PLENTY of us who know exactly what you are talking about!!

Get that solicitor organised. Get him ou of your house and bed.

Mama2b, it is impossible to tell if your H might be a Narcissist. Google the disorder and read up about it. He might just be an almighty bullying shit. What are his family like? Does he have friends and are they decent people and real friends (not aquaintances?)

If he is or he isn't he doesn't sound much cop to live with!