Narsissistic personality disorder

[therealme]

I'm English, living overseas. I'm married for 17 yrs and most of that has been pretty awful. I recently 'came clean' about my abusive relationship with dh on a parenting site where I live and I have had my eyes opened for the first time that maybe it's not all my fault anymore. I have blamed myself for everything that has 'gone wrong' in my marriage - although I have genuinly messsed up on more than one occasion.

I received a lot of support from people but didn't believe I was worthy of it. Then somebody suggested I google Narsissistic Personality Disorder and that is the moment my whole world changed. For the very fist time I began to see that maybe it wasn't ME that might have all the problems. I saw my 'perfect' dh described in black and white and the words 'personality disorder' were attached to his behaviours. To say the ground shifted from under me would be an understatement.

So now I find myself at a turning point in my life. I know I have to end my marriage. It's emotionally, verbally and mentally abusive. I now recognise that I am a shell of the person that I once was, have had the life blood drained out of me, but still have enough of a spark in me to want to fight for some peace of life at 42! I have 3 children whom I love and adore - but who also love their Daddy. I'm living financially independently from my dh who refused to support me financially after ds 2 was born 6 yrs ago. I want him out of the house and out of my life!

I've made my mind up, but I am still so weak when it comes to taking action. I have spent so long living in a confused and guilt-ridden state, does that make sense?
Is there anybody out there who has experience of living with a narsissistic partner? How do you make the break? How do you ever find the strength to stand up to them in order that you might have some quality of life left for yourself? Please advise.....

Also (sorry about typos in last post and some others. Tend not to read them back )
I am probably going to need help on here anytime soon, as the court has given me a date for the decree Nisi - at the end of this month...but the papers will be sent to my arsewipe's home address in bangland and I should think he might get in contact, for MONEY from me at some stage.

I am terrified and want no contact with him. I would be thrown back into a very black hole I think if I even heard his voice. So be prepared for unlikelyamazonian to become fuckingUNlikelyamazonian (ie a dribbling crying idiot instead of a half-amazonian-fighter ) sometime in the next few weeks.

UA, RC is an Irish parenting forum, and sorry for dragging my personal shit on your thread TRM! but I guess this is the explanation for why I despise that man giving 'advice' to people who are struggling to get through things he has NEVER experienced AND sees from his distorted fathers4justice kind of perspective. That man hacked away at what little was left of me just over two years ago. I had turned to that board for support (the single parenting board on rc) and by and large GOT it, so thanks to the other mums. When I was drawn in by nice informative and supportive people like Louise, then along comes Arnie (or Dennis as he was back then) to demonise me for having taken kids away from their Dad. He just wouldn't let it go. I wasted my energy arguing with him. But he didn't know my x, didn't know what I'd lived through (and initially I was cagey about that, I wasn't half as honest as TRM in my initial thread on rc). This male Irish poster was demented though, arguing that I had done a wicked thing taking my children away from their father in England (even though their father was a violent, agressive, bad tempered, selfish, mean controlling bully , I was the BITCH) and I stupidly used up vital grams of my emotional resources arguing with that fucker. HE did REALLY upset me, or wore me out rather, but I have the advantage of knowing my life, knowing my x. No matter WHAT that guy said to me, I knew with absolute certainty that I had done the right thing removing my kids from such a toxic environemt and bringing them to a loveing one wiht support of grandparents. IF I'd stayed in the UK, my x would never have given us a penny, as part of punishment for leaving him! and this Arnie character went on and on at me about how wicked I was for leaving England.

UA, can your divorce go through without his signature? Would his parents be able to forward it to him?

mama2b3: it might be worth your time to look up "bi-polar", too, given your h's mood swings hot to cold like that.

maggievirgo-it does sound like this Arnie guy is an NPD looking for his supply exactly where he knows he will find it (the boards where people are raising their hands saying I'm vunerable now and need help)...and with some measure of anonymity he gets cart-blanche. This is what the management staff of the website should be working on to retain their own credibility...please let them know.

Hi Therealme- you are beyond two weeks, I meant to say congrats on Thursday .

I really think you need no contact (apart from transfer children) to help recover. Seeing him, interacting with him will just delay your -YOUR- recovery.

The thing that he can't take dc to his parents is nothing but crap-its a line to use you more. Make you give in a little. Then a little more. And a little more after that. Then eventually, if you've done a-b-c-d then you couldn't mind doing the big one? Manipulation, period. At any rate, where to take dc is his problem not yours-and you are not the answer to any of his problems ever, ever again.

Ear hair! Please don't touch.
Sorry to sound so bossy this morning , but you really need to see the whole spectrum of boundaries that you really really need to establish, as soon as possible, as Squiggly said.

Oh Toomany, I see where you are coming from on that manipulation thing. That is exactly how it has worked in the past - very subtle and in increasing drips. Just one more little thing, nothing too hard, but when you add it to the list of all the other 'little things'....
He really is the worlds best person at getting what he wants, making his demands look so reasonable whilst appearing like Mother Theresa in terms of responsibility. I have always been the one accused of 'setting him up' when he has to deal with a difficult situation (ie, dd fell over and grazed knee while out with him, but I had set him up by putting her in a skirt). Of course, now I see that I was the one being set up because he delegated to me, escaped responsibility if things went wrong and could then dish out the blame. So I guess this is what you mean by projection?

I will continue to analyse, it feels right for me. Thank you for reassuring me I am not wasting my energy as was said to me on other site. Since I have to deal with this man with regard to my dc then I feel I need to know what I am dealing with. It has already proven helpful in predicting his behaviour. Plus I am wise to any 'helpful' suggestions he is making because I know that it is really about him meeting his own needs and he really couldn't give a toss about his kids. I can say this on here because you know what I mean. MaggieVirgo knows just how slated I would be for saying this on my home board!

I have applied for legal aid and Womens Aid have pointed me in the direction of a solicitor well practised in family law. I am so relieved that I don't have to go through the court hearing with ex h on my own. I would be anihalated by him. He will twist everything to make himself look like the victim, accuse me of being passive aggressive, of emotionally neglecting him blah blah. I would freeze in the face of his accusations and become defensive, sounding ungrateful against all the examples of how he has tried so hard to live with my depression and unwillingness to 'do chores for him'. Better stop here, these 'flashbacks' are not helping.

Meanwhile he has agreed to take the dc for an overnight at his mothers on the weekends when he is off. I know he doesn't want to do this as it will be too much like hard work for him, but is fearful of refusing any reasonable requests I might make in the face of the court hearing. When I quizzed him on his plans to get his own place he was very vague. Said his budgets didn't allow it till maybe January and mentioned something about thinking of 'sleeping at the airport' when not in overnights at work. He's said that before btw, about sleeping at the airport to avoid getting his own place, and so, I guess avoiding having to look after his dc for longer than a few hours. After all, he has never had to parent them in the sense of actually dressing, feeding, wiping their arses.

Mama2b3,
When I first posted about my h's behaviour towards me it sounded very much like what you have written. Infact, that description of the lap top modem breaking because you had asked him to take your child to bed made me baulk - it is a perfect example of something my ex h would have said. Somebody suggested I google NPD and it all suddenly made horrific sense to me. Do the same. Keep an open mind and try not to be convinced if you're not. However his behaviour does not sound normal, although tbh, I would be the wrong person entirely to advise on what 'normal' marrital behaviour is.

Mama - your situation sounds an awful way to live. Very sorry you are suffering this. Do keep reading and educating yourself on the condition because it will make a difference to how you go forward, NPD affects the person's capacity for change and how they might react to a break up. You also need to ask yourself questions about why you are tolerating this behaviour in him - now by that I don't mean in any way that it's your fault or you are to blame, but understanding yourself is also absolutely key to freeing yourself. It is something I am trying to understand and come to terms with having gone through life offering narcissistic supply to each one that entraps me.

Someone mentioned possible bi-polar. Nothing in your description particularly cries out bi-polar to me, I am very familiar with the condition, however, they have recognised something so no harm in looking into it too. Excessive spending is a symptom of the up stage but it is very often combined with excessive generosity too, giving possessions away and generally combined with a fall sense of grandeur, not in the narc way, of a constant "I'm better than the rest" attitude but more in a "I can cure the world's ills". There will also usually be down phases with serious depression of the type that makes it hard for someone to function. MDF.ORG.UK is a good place to go to find out more about bi-polar.

toomanystuffedbears, they have banned him more times than I can count, but I don'tthink that site is overly monitored (understatement) and he comes back with a username,which is his old name with II after it. He's been doing it for years. He is all over that entire forum. He's been married a couple of times and has ex wives and children and step children and x step children, and YOU NAME IT, every board, from premature babies to step-parenting to newly divorced to single parenting, he is ALL OVER THE BOARD, really dominating the board, to the point where people can't really say what they want to.

I am one of the few people who's stood up to him, but he always manages to make me look like a ranty old bitch, and he has his supporters (most of whome aren't over-burdened with intelligence imo!!). A lot of people have sent me private messages on rollercoaster telling me to 'keep up the good work' (constantly challenging his bullshit) but they are afraid to openly condemn him themselves. He is definitely a bit NPD himself. That entire forum has taken on his ethos.

I think I'm super aware of it because I used to live with somebody like that, but the last time I challenged him, some little happily married beany of about 25 said "do you think you're transfering your feelings for your x onto Arnie" and I ended up looking the muppet!!!!

Anyway, sorry, this is a huge tangent Iknow,,, but it is a testimony to how the internet can be hugely helpful and supportive, but if the wrong caped crusading arsehole crops up, it can be hugely upsetting too.

whom

on an entirely different saturday night kind of tangent, different from the last tangent, I have ordered myself a badam chicken passanda and it's going to arrive soon .

Until I read (and I think it was you Unlikely Amazonian) on the lone parents board saying, "yes of course I order takeaways for myself, what do you think I do, cry into my fucking pot noodle?" I would never have dared order a curry just for myself!!!!

I do dare now!

therealme

Yes I think that all those questions are a normal part of the recovery. I mean, it's recognised that after a bereavement there are 7 stages of recovery.

Well, after ending a relationship with an NPD, I think that the first stage is total confusion and inability to make sense of the fact that somebody treated you so badly.

I used to think to myself that my X treated me WORSE than a tramp he might have passed by in the street. He honestly had LESS regard for me whom he was sharing his life with than he did for a total stranger.

It's a tortuously unpleasant stage, but I think it'd be pretty impossible to bypass it and go straight to go serenity and acceptance!! The other stages, anger and sadness will come, and they'll be unpleasant in their own way, but it's all progress...

Hello All

I thought this thread from the narc and psychopath forums would be useful....

how to think like a N

Chins up girls!

xxxx

The board game analogy is useful, and the link to thinking like an N is fab. Thank you Gettingagrip. When you know how they think it's like suddenly learning the rules for a board game that you've been playing and losing for years. Imagine playing Monopoly as a little child with older children who know how to add, multiply, etc. That little child is you. But the more you know about this disorder, the better you will be able to beat him at his own game.

Therealme, yes, it is hard to even see where you should be putting the boundaries after years of being worn away drip by drip. They keep on coming at you from all angles. Be very careful and keep your guard up every time he contacts you. He is mounting an attack each (harmless, reasonable) time. Ask yourself, over and over, what's in this for me? btw, he will probably hand over your DD to his mammy on the weekend she sleeps over. All care for the children on his part will actually be delegated care. His personal input will exist only in his mind. Be careful about exposing your DCs to the mammy. You never know what she will tell your DD about you while she's over there. I would actually not allow the overnight visit -- again, because he will tell the courts that you are perfectly happy to have him take care of the children and the children have a normal and happy relationship with his, therefore should not be allowed to return to the UK, separated from their doting, caring father and heartbroken granny..

I have a theory about Irish men and Irish culture in general (including Irish American culture) that the narcissistic husband and father are actually encouraged to develop that way, or even brought up to be like that, and that "himself" type men are not seen in their true light. Irish machismo is a strange bird indeed. The 'mammies' make rods to beat themselves and other women with.

Could someone post a link to the Irish site?

M2B3 -- There's a link earlier in this thread to a great NPD site (halcyon). I would also look up Borderline Personality Disorder (try bpdcentral.com) or google Borderline Personality Disorder. The disorders are similar, and sometimes you can have two or more, btw.

You could be right mathanxiety. My own x is English, but maybe as an Irish woman, I thought that a man treating me as an equal was more than I deserved. (I only had a job, he had a career).

www.rollercoaster.ie if you come across a poster called Arnie, spouting pompous shite, you've found the right place.

PS, that's a good tip about starting your negotitations being unreasonable. I tried to ask x for a paltry sum of money and he spluttered and I still got nothing.

When I've been here three years, and when (my solicitor's words) there is not a judge in the world who'd send you back to the UK, then I am going to go after that bastard for EVERY penny I can get (and maybe then I'll get about ?50 a week.)

Oh yes, aim for the moon when negotiating. That way the high amount is the starting point. If you start out reasonable low, you will end up lower.

When I had to apply for lone parent benefit because ex h refused to support me and dc financially, he purposely tied up all his monthly income by renting an expensive apartment while remaining in the home with us. As a result he pays 300 euro per month to me. He no longer has the apartment. His take home pay is near to 4,000.00 euro per month. I still only get the 300; the rest of the money he kept for himself, his 'designer clothes', expensive cigars - delivered by the box - oil paintings, trips overseas....
I often sat and wondered, while trying to stretch my benefits to pay the gas bill or wonder if I could afford to take the kids to the zoo; what exactly does a man spend all that money on each month and still claim to have none to spare? Of course, I had no knowledge of his outgoings, he wouldn't dream of telling me! But jeez! All that money to just spend on myself each month!
And that's not the worse of it - I had saved 2000 euro to visit my sister in Oz. H convinced me it would be a bad idea (can't leave the kids/he had college and couldn't look after them etc) so he said he would 'look ater' my money and invest it in family interests. Of course I never saw a cent of it again, or the money my mil gave to 'us' when she came into some inheritence.
Ah well...

Getting a lot of 'confessions' from ex h at the moment. Out of the blue he will send me a text implying that he was wrong in doing a or b. He has never admitted to being wrong in the past - his actions have always been justified by his own way of thinking. Is it possible he is now seeing things as the court might? Is he paving the way so he can tell a Judge that he has 'seen the error of his ways' and has apologised/admitted this to me, and thus reduce the impact of his behaviour? I am deeply suspicious after years of his self serving actions that suddenly he should start to see how this might have had an effect on me!

Stay very suspicious. He is not in all likelihood seeing the effect his crap has had on you, but he may well recognise the potential it all has to backfire on him, via the courts. He is trying to appear reasonable and remorseful and even ... human (he has carefully observed humans all these years after all).

Mathanx, I agree. There seems to be a lot of back-tracking over a very short period of time going on right now. I have had more apologies, flowers and confessions then any woman could expect to get in a lifetime. It is the complete opposite to what I have experienced in all the time I was married.
I remain very sceptical of where this is all leading. I also await the time when he realises I am not going to change my mind and he decides to unleash his full grudge bearing, unmerciful revenge on me.... I know that day is coming.

"if you come across a poster called Arnie, spouting pompous shite, you've found the right place. "
I actually did LOL at this comment.

therealme, you are getting so much great practical help here. I can only contribute with general musings about narcissism as fortunately Ive never gone through a break up with a narcissist myself (still living in hope that my DH is not one!!!) For analyzing, that Phsycopath and Narcissist forum is fantastic. THe Americans really know what they are talking about when it comes to this sort of thing. I cant believe that words like "boundaries", "owning your anger" and the like are part of normal vocabulary in the US. I`ve always sniggered at this tendency before but then again I was in total and extreme denial about my life being full of Ns!

Only one word of warning I will give about therapists: apparently narcissists sometimes end up as therapists! I think its the power that comes with a job like that. A member of the 'stately homes' thread said her mother and sister, who had bullied her N-style all her life, were both therapists. BUt I think that a good therapists would be worth their weight in gold, preferably someone who has been through this sort of thing themselves.

Sakura, I think I was dreaming that he tracked down this thread and came on it to tell you all that I needed counselling and I was disturbed blah blah, and everybody was saying things like "yeah, Maggie, time to leave it now, give poor Arnie a break!".

My face looks like Edvard's Munch's The Scream when I think of this!!

What a chilling thought, narcissists as counsellors, but I can SO see it happening. Aforemention pompous shite privately contacts (thru the rc pm facility) the women he perceives to be vulnerable, offering to meet up so he can 'help' them. It is quite a scary thought.

TheREalme you are right, when he realises that you're not going to change your mind, the behaviour will change again to something new. At the moment he still sees you as somebody who can be manipulated (even though exasperatingly it's more difficult than it was). When the penney drops that all the flowers in Amsterdam aren't going to change your mind, a new chapter will begin...

When the penney dropped for my x (when dc1 started at her Irish school I think) he became such a martyr, weeping and wailing. I felt the monster for not caving in at that point!

therealme revenge........ yes.

Apart from the weeping and wailing and feeling so sorry for himself, my x set up a standing order for £1 a month into my account!! And then, he bought a Pors.che. He threw all my old photos and my flute into a skip. My clothes, boots, books, jewellery, everything I'd left behind also went into a skip. But I only cared about the photos and the flute. To this day, I've had to SIT on the temptation to call him a bastard for doing that. He texted me to say all my stuff was festering on top of a dump. I didn't reply. That killed me though. It still does.

Think about what he could do and be prepared. The ?300 a month. Could he cut that?

Apart from sucking up the odd thread about scroungers on benefits! I prefer being on benefits to being at the MERCY of payment from children's father.

When I had money issues the cwo (community welfare officer) was very helpful. They don't deal with a specific area of sw. They see what can be done for people in a tight spot. Mine was a woman and very sympathetic.

Just a very quick aside to MadameOvary it's coming.

Tribpot tripot tribpot tribpot,
get it on with ya poim!

I think I am going to try doing a mock-poim too. Would you mind trib? I swear it won 't be anything on your class or scale as I am not up to it. But I fancy a stab

will start badly -
mary had a little llama,
she snogged it just to give it karma,
she lost it in the market one day
Oh farkit she thought the next day

Tribpot:
A Valediction Forbidding Mourning A Narcissistic Tossface?

Can't wait!

Off to read "how to think like an N" now.

Thanks for the welcome, Sakura, can only access internet Mon-Fri, mad busy at work, thinking of you all xxxxxxxxxxx