Husband says it's over, wants custody of DD

[MollFlounders]

I would really appreciate some thoughts on my situation. I've posted a few times recently about DH. There have been issues in the past but things have been particularly rocky since I went back to FT work 3 months ago (DD is now 9 months old). DH has always been quite selfish and inflexible (previous threads on this are here and here) and this has, for me, become more and more difficult to cope with since having to juggle a demanding job and of course DD. Things are at the point where counselling is required. I found a counselling group who will see us each separately and then together in a facilitated session.

So DH and I had yet another row yesterday morning. It was very trivial. I was hosting an event for some clients. DH managed to get his own last minute invitation to the same event (going as a client himself, of another host). I offered to give DH a lift in my work taxi, but on condition we operated on my timing seeing though I had to get there to meet my clients (DH is usually late to everything). DH was very pleased about the lift otherwise he was stuck with a long tube trip. We agreed, I thought, that we would leave the house asap but would absolutely be in the cab by 9am. I was up and ready, having also gotten DD up and ready for her day, by 8.30am. As it happened, my taxi arrived to collect me at 8.40am. DH had gotten up at 8am and proceeded to faff around the house getting himself ready in slow motion. I asked him a few times if it was possible to hurry things along a little as the cab was waiting downstairs with the meter ticking along. He just kept repeating in icy tones "we agreed we would leave at 9. We will leave at 9". So we left at 9.00am on the dot, with me standing around waiting for him in the meantime. In the cab, I expressed my frustration at his inflexibility and I said that I didn't feel it was normal to be so incredibly rigid. He basically said "if you want normal, you're with the wrong person. I'm not normal."

I didn't see DH again last night as he went out with a friend after the event and came home late. This morning, he was monosyllabic. I reminded him that he needed to call the counsellor for his separate session. DH said "there's no point going to a counsellor unless you tell me that your behaviour yesterday morning was totally unacceptable and will never be repeated again". Apparently I was relentless in my nagging and this is totally unacceptable and tantamount to treating him with contempt. After all, I know he hates being rushed in the mornings.

DH then asked me if I want custody (I know it's residence) of DD and I said absolutely. Asked him what he wants, he says he wants custody. She is 9 months old. We have a daily nanny but I do everything for DD outside of that. A family lawyer has told me that it seems clear that I'm the primary caregiver and that I could move out with her if the marriage ends. My main priority in all of this is DD's happiness and stability.

I guess I've got two questions. Does the situation with DH sound hopeless? I feel we're at the make or break point but I'd go through counselling if there was a chance of it working. But if he's saying counselling is pointless then can you make it work?? Other question: what do people do with residence and contact when it comes to small babies? How often would be reasonable for DH to see DD and how do you do this (e.g. him coming to my place)??

I don't blame you for being curious...hell, I'm curious about it myself! Take care and report back here.

I don't think you're being dumb, if you're doing what you want to do, and instinctively you feel okay about it, then it's cool.
You still have the option to change your mind at any time, but you also need to start having more faith in your own feelings and desires.
I'm sure you'll be absolutely fine, just remember how awful it's all been, and don't let him persuade you otherwise.

I said a while back that I thought he didn't think you were serious and I am even more strongly of that opinion. I also agree with everyone else I don't think you should meet him at this point in time - you have nothing to prove, and as others have said, it is sensible to keep yourself safe, and is not a sign of weakness. If you are determined to meet him is there anyway you can arrange for your parents/sister/friend to turn up at Y time and haul you out of there? I really do not trust this guy and think he is playing a manipulative game designed to make you think you are wrong about him....

Mum is always right...Mum is always right

My mantra (I'm trying to instill it in DS as well!)

He texted straight back agreeing to what I proposed. I know that this does not equate to me being in control and I'm not kidding myself about that. It's only for 45 minutes. It's a place next door to my work, in the direction of my home, and I've booked a taxi to pick me up 45 minutes after we meet. Dittany - I can say no to him. I think there is a part of me that wants to say to him face to face: this wasn't good enough, it made me deeply unhappy, and I have left you because of that. If I'm not comfortable, then I will leave. Ok, so these are fighting words. Let's see how I go in RL.

Keep strong Moll and walk out if you have to! Oh, and let us know how it goes, we will all be sending vibes.....

just imagine all of us and your family behind you ready to say you're not good enough to him - I think he will propose you work it all out, and he'll try with DD but he won't - DD will suffer as he will edge her out, and 6 months time you'll be back where you are now.

keep strong. we're all behind you. xx

I am prepared for him pretending to be Mr Loving Constructive Emotionally Available Emotionally Supportive Family Guy. He is not that guy, he has not been that guy in 7 years, he will not have become that guy just because I moved out. You're all right about that and you haven't even met him. My mum knows him, and she thinks that too. I probably won't hear a word he says because I'll be repeating all this in my head.

I will come back on this evening once I've put DD to bed.

Oh, eek, I think he might be much more manipulative/cold than that. Watch out, he might drop a bombshell or tell a lie to upset you. There might be a 'new girlfriend' hinted at or some previously unknown info dredged up, anything for a reaction. Please be on your guard.

Good luck, Moll. I can completely see why you are curious to see what he has to say. Good move on booking the taxi to pick you up so you don't feel tempted to stay.

i would want to meet him too, just to confirm that i was doing the right thing.

i think it's highly probable that he will either want you to come back and / or drop some bombshell to shake you up. who knows. maybe he'll be thinking of going on some trip to mongolia /india like the other blokes are.

i hope you get some of the answers you need.

Well... I'm back. I'm not sure what I learned from it, I need to reflect a bit. In a nutshell, dittany was right about him putting his hands up, apologising, accepting responsibility etc.

The gist was that he loves me, he never wanted to be emotionally unavailable/ unsupportive, never wanted to make me feel like this (I explained that the relationship had been so destructive for me that it had taken me to the brink of total loss of self and self-confidence) and that he is so sorry to hear what it has done to me. He referred back to a note I showed him a few months ago (mentioned in my nose thread) about the various hurtful things he has done over the years and he said that he was so sorry for them. He said that he had realised what was important, our relationship, and he would work very hard at it, would be supportive, and promised that I will never again be in this situation and please don't throw it away. He noticed that I wasn't wearing my rings and was upset about that. He welled up in tears several times, which he never does. He talked about when he saw DD last week for lunch and how he'd expected it to be joyful but instead he just hadn't been able to stop crying afterwards.

The thing is, I belive that he truly does mean and feel these things.

I felt quite detached - I suppose it must be my self-defence mechanism willing me not to get drawn down into this. When I saw him sitting there waiting for me at our meeting spot I didn't really feel much at all. I noticed that he looked good, suntan from his week away, haircut etc. I didn't feel a rush of love or a rush of fear.

I guess what I learned is that I've been through a huge process over the last few weeks and (through thinking things through myself, getting fantastic advice here, and seeing a great counsellor) I've made a lot of progress. H was telling me weeks ago that it was all perfectly clear to him, he knew what was going on, and it was just me floundering around with no idea of "the truth". Actually, I now feel that it's him with no clue and there is a big part of me that feels really, really sorry for that. My counsellor had a theory that I was drawn to the lost child buried in him, under all the coldness and hardness and horribleness, and I saw the lost child again this evening. That's the part I feel for.

But it's not a big enough part for me to consider sacrificing myself - and, more importantly, DD - to the cause. I think that's now clear to me and that's why I felt so detached.

Sorry, that's a massive ramble.

Oh Moll. He knows just how to play the right way. It's just unfortunate that he can;t actually live it. And I don't think he can. It's all very well being sorry NOW. He knew full well what he was doing.

Please continue the counselling. And keep your distance.

Classic narc manipulation.

Tears, the pity-hook, showing you the child within.

If you can get beyond this play-acting stage to draw you back in again, you will see the next stage shortly.

No prizes for guessing what that entails!

Well done you !!!

Keep posting!!!

xxxx

PS don't know if you have read any Sam Vaknin. Very useful for anyone dealing with a narc.

You know, IF he is genuinely sorry and IF he actually realises what he's done and IF he changes in the future and IF you can ever trust him again, there's nothing in theory to stop you getting back together with him. The thing is, he won't do any of those things and you won't want to. You will have moved on. Sadly, although you feel for the lost kid in him (and your description made me feel sorry for him, too), it's not good enough to base a relationship on as you have discovered!

Sorry, v nosy, but what's his family like? Yours is clearly supportive and close which is what's given you the strength to take yourself out of the situation and do the best for your daughter. I suppose I'm just wondering what's damaged him. I'm guessing he isn't close to them?

wow, Moll can I just say your last post, yes heart wrenching for you, BUT you have come so so far, from your first post. honestly to feel the way you do now and to be able to see everything so clearly. well done you.

you're doing fantastic, he will try every which way to win you back, but as other said talk to us your family & of course your councillor. You're an amazingly strong lady, and he did let a real gem slip out of his fingers - but now you can blossom back into the rose you always were before

I think I will have to keep my distance. I was feeling really good straight after we met, in the sense that I felt pleased that I'd felt together and strong and safely distant. But a few hours on, the cracks start to creep in. For example, he is so convinced that this could be a fantastic turning point in our relationship where (his words) "something good becomes really great". He wants us to go away on a holiday we had booked and paid for months and months ago, which is now coming up in about 3 weeks time during which he will prove to me how it can all be so different.... I know this is a bad idea. He thinks we just need to get a bit better at being together. He said we need to be better to each other. Crumbs, I've tried really hard to be good to him and to make this work. He was saying all this and I was just thinking "I nearly killed myself trying to be the best I could in this relationship and addressing all of the problems by modifying myself and my own behaviour, expectations, desires, needs".

Horton - his family is very different from mine. His father died before I met H but H has previously told me that he was not emotionally engaged and you got big ticks for doing well at "approved activities" (school and sport) and ignored if you didn't. H got the ticks, his brother didn't. H always felt this was wrong, even as a child. His brother still lives at home, late 30s, no career, obsessive interest in one hobby, never been in a serious relationship, is like a giant teenager. His mum is self-effacing to the extreme, no self-confidence and goes to pieces in a social setting, yet is hugely self-involved. I will never forget when DD was about 6 weeks old, screaming her little head off with hunger, I just couldn't get her latched on and was on the verge of tears myself, and MIL was just standing there next to me going on and on at me about some flipping frogs that were living in her garage.

Of course you still have feelings for him, but seems a bit too little too late.

Like your mom says, he had the last 7 years to demonstrate his ability to change, his genuine love for you, but instead, suddenly, after you leave him, he finds his soul again?

I'd keep him at a distance, focus on you and your DD. He's really high maintenance, and while he probably didn't mean to cause you such grief, thing is, walks like a duck, talks like a duck....

His intentions at this stage don't matter.

agree 100%. you need to learn to be together better?? - and where is DD in all of his plans?

It's so hard though dittany because how do you discount how much you have contributed to problems in a relationship? Hmmm. I guess this line of thought demonstrates exactly why I shouldn't have seen him because just yesterday, in fact, just this morning, I was feeling really good and confident about things and basically in a place where I feel that while I am far from perfect I have put a lot of effort into this marriage and am generally an ok kind of person. Now this evening I'm thinking, well maybe I have been a miserable, cranky, nagging cow, particularly since I went back to work, and it's only natural that H reacted very badly to this and it has been a two-way street. I'm seeing the counsellor again on Weds. I'm still a work in progress....

The point about knowing the right words but not the actions that go with them - yes, I think that's right. One of the things I've been talking with my family about a lot is the fact that H seems to have been born without the empathy gene. I never noticed until the last few months but it had been more obvious to others. The words/actions disconnect is part of that I think.

Oh Moll. TBH I would probably have done the same myself, even knowing it wasn;t a good idea. But what is good is that you feel detached rather than guilt-ridden. He WILL NOT change. He has his head too far up his own arse to pull it out.
The next move on his part will be an analysis of your 'faults' and an insistence that you have to change (ie start obeying him again) and he can only change if you do: don't fall for this one either.

Moll - I've been following your threads, and not known what I could add to the wonderful support and advice others have been offering. However, I felt today that I had to chip in and say that your description of meeting your H doesn't really sounds as though he's changed at all.
It sounded as though everything is still revolving around him, how he feels, how what is happening is affecting him etc. There may be a little boy in there, but it's a child who is crying 'mine, mine, mine' and plaintively wailing 'but what about meeeeeee',

You are doing great - a little backwards step is to be expected, and knowing you (as I feel I do a little from your threads) you will take stock, take what you need to from today's experience and move onwards and upwards.

Good Luck.