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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Husband says it's over, wants custody of DD

943 replies

MollFlounders · 17/07/2009 11:12

I would really appreciate some thoughts on my situation. I've posted a few times recently about DH. There have been issues in the past but things have been particularly rocky since I went back to FT work 3 months ago (DD is now 9 months old). DH has always been quite selfish and inflexible (previous threads on this are here and here) and this has, for me, become more and more difficult to cope with since having to juggle a demanding job and of course DD. Things are at the point where counselling is required. I found a counselling group who will see us each separately and then together in a facilitated session.

So DH and I had yet another row yesterday morning. It was very trivial. I was hosting an event for some clients. DH managed to get his own last minute invitation to the same event (going as a client himself, of another host). I offered to give DH a lift in my work taxi, but on condition we operated on my timing seeing though I had to get there to meet my clients (DH is usually late to everything). DH was very pleased about the lift otherwise he was stuck with a long tube trip. We agreed, I thought, that we would leave the house asap but would absolutely be in the cab by 9am. I was up and ready, having also gotten DD up and ready for her day, by 8.30am. As it happened, my taxi arrived to collect me at 8.40am. DH had gotten up at 8am and proceeded to faff around the house getting himself ready in slow motion. I asked him a few times if it was possible to hurry things along a little as the cab was waiting downstairs with the meter ticking along. He just kept repeating in icy tones "we agreed we would leave at 9. We will leave at 9". So we left at 9.00am on the dot, with me standing around waiting for him in the meantime. In the cab, I expressed my frustration at his inflexibility and I said that I didn't feel it was normal to be so incredibly rigid. He basically said "if you want normal, you're with the wrong person. I'm not normal."

I didn't see DH again last night as he went out with a friend after the event and came home late. This morning, he was monosyllabic. I reminded him that he needed to call the counsellor for his separate session. DH said "there's no point going to a counsellor unless you tell me that your behaviour yesterday morning was totally unacceptable and will never be repeated again". Apparently I was relentless in my nagging and this is totally unacceptable and tantamount to treating him with contempt. After all, I know he hates being rushed in the mornings.

DH then asked me if I want custody (I know it's residence) of DD and I said absolutely. Asked him what he wants, he says he wants custody. She is 9 months old. We have a daily nanny but I do everything for DD outside of that. A family lawyer has told me that it seems clear that I'm the primary caregiver and that I could move out with her if the marriage ends. My main priority in all of this is DD's happiness and stability.

I guess I've got two questions. Does the situation with DH sound hopeless? I feel we're at the make or break point but I'd go through counselling if there was a chance of it working. But if he's saying counselling is pointless then can you make it work?? Other question: what do people do with residence and contact when it comes to small babies? How often would be reasonable for DH to see DD and how do you do this (e.g. him coming to my place)??

OP posts:
OrangeFish · 30/07/2009 16:01

Moll, he can convince himself that he is in the right, he can omit information to make other people think he is right. He may even convince you that he is right. But...

that't not important, no matter how "right" he "is" you are having an awful time so, keep strong. It is not about rights or wrongs, it is about your happiness.

cheerfulvicky · 30/07/2009 16:14

"I've got to look at myself and ask why I've allowed this."

Yeah, he would say that though wouldn't he. The thing is, you are not responsible for his actions, he is. I had this with MIL when I told her I was leaving DP in the past. She was all "Well, couldn't you just stand up for yourself more? Be a bit more confident?" And I explained to her that its not enough to do that. Some people, if you let them, will just take the piss. Along with everything else; they'll take and take and bleed you try, and then act all wounded if you moan, going "But you let me! (big eyes)". That's not the point is it? They've been acting like a complete dick, and given half a twiddly little change they will exploit each and every situation to undermine you in some way. You shouldn't have to battle against that constant subversion and fuckwittery, its not fair and it's not kind.

Nice people just don't DO that. They don't. And no amount of blaming it on you changes the fact that he has acted like a twunt, AND HE PROBABLY KNOWS HE HAS.

You're doing fine, put this down to another of his sad little machinations and sadly one of many in the run up to your leaving. Remember the British maxim to 'keep calm and carry on', you are doing fine!

queenofdenial2009 · 30/07/2009 20:44

Moll, I've been with you on this thread as much of it has mirrored my experience. I also know that scared, butterfly feeling. But Cheerfulvicky is right and her post is spot on.

I left my abusive partner on Monday and although now it is only Thursday, my life already feels completely different. That feeling has gone (I was shaking so much on Monday I could hardly string a sentence together)and I've been able to think so much more clearly now.

You will be fine, your daughter will be fine. And, it doesn't matter how your partner is - of course in an ideal world he'll get the wake-up call he needs but I'm not convinced. I don't think my partner has, but it really doesn't bother me. Focus on the practicalities and that will get you through, I'm so glad your family are giving you so much support.

Macherie your post was so helpful to me, because my daughter is four and I told her today what was going on. She is sad right now, but I really do believe it will all be OK.

Blackduck · 31/07/2009 06:55

Hi Moll, hope you have a nice weekend planned and that you are ok. Let us know the outcome of the lease issue, lots of people rooting for you here!

MollFlounders · 31/07/2009 07:50

Thanks everyone. I'm continuing to hang in there, sort of. One of my colleagues at work has the "keep calm and carry on poster" on his office wall, so I am doing my best with that. Another trip to the counsellor this afternoon which I'm looking forward to. I had to call her yesterday because I was having what I think is close to a panic attack. I got through that. I don't want to jinx myself, but I think the lease issue is now sorted. I don't think my nerves could take another last minute disaster on that front. Queenofdenial - I've read some of your posts on other threads about your own situation and I'm so glad to know that you've left. I wish you and your daughter all the best; you've shown massive strength and resolve.

OP posts:
MollFlounders · 31/07/2009 12:05

Please can someone talk to me. I'm so terribly terribly terrified of what I'm doing here.

Can relationships be better than/different to this? Are people out there in relationships where they feel heard, understood, cherished, supported and where their partner is kind and forgiving. Do people have partners that put their families first, ahead of what they want. Or are these pipedreams/fantasies of perfect relationships that aren't attained in RL. Am I making a huge mistake and throwing away a strong relationship and I just can't see it?

I've re-read the thread(s) but I've lost all perspective. I'm so scared. It's crunch time today- I have to pay a very large deposit on the lease.

OP posts:
MrsFlittersnoop · 31/07/2009 12:12

Moll, the answer is of course, YES. You know this, your parents and sisters know this and so does your therapist.

Listen to the opinion of those who love you unconditionally. They want you out of this destructive relationship. Your husband does not "do" kindness, support or forgiveness. This means he will never be able to "do" marriage or fatherhood either, and by admitting to these faults he has effectively told you your marriage is over.

Your story has been one of the most disturbing accounts of a relationship I've ever read here. I'm so pleased you are getting the support you need and have the resources to make a new life for yourself and your daughter. You can stay strong for a wee while longer!

Clayhead · 31/07/2009 12:13

Oh Moll, I haven't contributed yet but you can't lose your nerve now!

People on here have said it all so much better than I ever could. I can answer your question though - I have been with dh for 12 years and I do feel heard, understood and cherished, he is kind and forgiving. We had two dc close together and so sort of 'lost' a couple of years to pregnancy, bf, newborns and that was when I realised I loved him the most as he never once minded coming third or fourth in the house and never wavered from supporting me.

You deserve so much more.

Clayhead · 31/07/2009 12:16

Good point from MrsFlittersnoop - those nearest and dearest to you who love you the most are telling you to get out for your own good, surely that says so much.

dollius · 31/07/2009 12:19

Moll I am here.

Let me tell you about my husband.

He arranged to work flexible hours at his pretty important job so I could go back to a job I love.

He says he is willing to stay at home with the children for a while if I want to concentrate on my job because I love it so much, even though his job is far more important.

We always go out of our way to help and support each other. We put each other first, and, above all we put our children's needs above that too.

We have both changed our lifestyles completely since we had children and there is no resentment - we are both happier than we have ever been.

He tells and shows me that he loves me every single day. He is always thinking of ways to make my life easier and better.

He completely and utterly puts his own needs last, as I do.

We have an amazing, fantastic partnership.

We have a normal marriage.

dollius · 31/07/2009 12:23

Pay that lease and take your daughter and go.

It's time to get a better life for both of you.

I think you are amazing, by the way. I would have fallen apart by now, but you have totally held it together.

We are all so proud of you and rooting for you.

MollFlounders · 31/07/2009 12:33

Thank you thank you thank you thank you. I will do this but, god, it's harder than I realised it would be. I am holding it together solely because of my amazing parents and sister and the amazing support I have had here. This is no exaggeration. I know I am a strong person deep down but this is taking me to the edge. Thank you.

OP posts:
macherie · 31/07/2009 12:36

Oh Moll, you are doing the right thing and you have come so far, a better life for yourself and your dd is within your grasp, don't let him take that away from you by making you doubt yourself.

You sound like such a lovely person, the kind of woman we would all like to have as a friend. You deserve a man who will cherish and adore you, you know you do.

And you can have the life that you want and the future you want for dd, just keep going, you can do this.

I wish I could hop on a plane and help you do this, but I am here thinking about you every day, as so many other women are, willing you on to grasp the happy life you deserve.

Go and pay that deposit today. Can you plan something nice with dd and your parents for the weekend so you don't have to be around him? Do you really need to wait until he goes away, could you take a day off work, rope in a few friends to help and just go?

Good luck with the counselling, I'll check back this afternoon.

Stay strong, x

Bunnysoprano · 31/07/2009 12:37

Be strong Moll.

Even if it is a "good" relationship (which, for the avoidance of doubt, I DON'T think it is), it is making you so unhappy. So, it's not the right relationship for you.

Keep going, one foot in front of the other.

MrsFlittersnoop · 31/07/2009 12:38

By marrying you, you husband bought into a particular lifestyle which you have effectively underwritten for him.

This may have worked before the birth of your DD, but the whole edifice has come crumbling down around his ears. Children were obviously part of the fantasy "lifestyle package", but he's realised he can't cope with it. He knows it is over.

All these tactics - stonewalling your attempts to discuss your marriage, refusal to co-operate with juggling work and childcare, his absolute insistence on maintaining his bachelor lifestyle - are a very obvious (if passive agressive) demonstration that he is emotionally incapable of stepping up to the plate.

In the same way that you needed "permission" from your therapist to leave your marriage, he is getting "permission" from his counsellor to do likewise, by utterly refusing to engage with the counselling process.

I don't believe for a minute that he really believes you would stay with him after everyhing he's said about his opinions on relationships and parenthood. He is contradicting all his marriage vows. He just doesn't have the guts to initiate a break-up and wants you to be the bad guy.

MollFlounders · 31/07/2009 12:45

Thank you, you are all wonderful wonderful voices of reason and wisdom. Reading this is like the online version of taking a slug of dutch courage (whatever that is!).

By the way MrsF, I like that theory about him getting permission from his counsellor by not engaging with that process openly. I also agree that he knows it is over but he wants me to be the executioner. Part of me wonders if that's because he really does love me and doesn't want me to go. That is a pang for me, very painful to contemplate. I never wanted it to be like this. But it's not a reason to stay. He has had every opportunity to meet me halfway. And he hasn't.

OP posts:
Lemonylemon · 31/07/2009 12:53

Moll, keep going, keep strong. We're all here for you.

In answer to your question: "Can relationships be better than/different to this? Are people out there in relationships where they feel heard, understood, cherished, supported and where their partner is kind and forgiving. Do people have partners that put their families first, ahead of what they want." Yes, yes and yes!

Don't doubt yourself.....

MrsFlittersnoop · 31/07/2009 12:54

Maybe he really does love you in his own way Moll. But until he gets some long-term help to work on his feelings he won't be able to function as a husband or father.

Maybe your leaving will act as the spur he needs to address his problems. He needs individual pysychotherapy, not relationship counselling.

The time to discuss this with him (if he's willing) is AFTER you've moved out though. Divorce doesn't happen overnight. He will have plenty of time to either realise what he's lost or re-embrace the single life with gusto after you've separated.

His actions are his responsibility, not yours.

Bunnysoprano · 31/07/2009 12:55

For what it is worth, I think the counsellor stuff is crap.

I think he is TERRIFIED. I don't know why he acts the way he does but clearly he is a massive control freak, underneath that though, I think he probably feels completely inadequate and that leads to the control freakery. Whether he even realises that may be the route of the problem - I don't know.

I agree with Mrs F and think he knows that everything is about to come crashing down but actually just can't face it so is covering up with bravado and lies re the counsellor.

Just keep on going and tell yourself that this will pass. You have nearly done the worst now and then you are on the upward curve.

What does worry me and has from the beginning is the fact that you are connected to him via DD so you need to work out ways of communicating with him (whether it is by third part to start with) without being sucked back in. No doubt your counsellor is dealing with that though.

Hope your family will be able to help you move etc and you have enough practical support re that?

Alibabaandthe40nappies · 31/07/2009 13:03

Oh Moll - I've not posted before now because I didn't think I had anything to say that could be helpful. Let me tell you about my day yesterday.

DH left at 6:45am to drive 4 hours away for a meeting (I am a SAHM). He made me a cup of tea before he left, took the washing out of the machine and took the bin out with him as he went. Told me to stay in bed and gave me a kiss.
He was supposed to stay away last night, but got away a little earlier than he expected to. At 8pm I got a call from him saying that he was an hour away from home. He got in at 9pm and immediately took over with DS who is teething so that I could eat some dinner. We chatted and cuddled DS and then put him to bed. Then we curled up on the sofa and watched some TV, I made him a cup of tea. We went to bed at about 11, DH went straight to sleep because he was tired out from the drive. But he still got up in the to help me give DS calpol and get him settled back to sleep.

He is working at home today - I've just taken him up some coffee and a flapjack because he can't take a break for lunch. I will spend the afternoon packing, ironing his clothes etc so that we can go away this evening and enjoy a lovely weekend with some friends.

We are a team, a partnership. Where one of us falls the other is there to support and shoulder the burdens. I've had awful PND recently - DH has been my rock. Seeing him take more responsibility with DS on a day to day basis and bond with him has been the joy of my life. There are lovely, kind, wonderful men out there. You will meet one one day.
I wish you the best of luck, you sound an incredible woman and an amazing mother. I bet your parents are so proud of you for what you are doing

doggiesayswoof · 31/07/2009 13:04

I haven't posted before but I have read most of the thread now.

Moll you ask "Can relationships be better than/different to this? Are people out there in relationships where they feel heard, understood, cherished, supported and where their partner is kind and forgiving. Do people have partners that put their families first, ahead of what they want?"

The answer is yes, yes and yes.

My DH has given up work to be at home with the DC. He did this because I love my job and did not feel I could be a SAHM. His life now totally revolves round me and the DC.

He listens to me even when I'm ranting or moaning. I do the same for him. He absolutely does cherish me and support me, he is very kind and forgives my (many) faults.

Like dollius I feel we have a normal marriage, not an exceptional one.

Put down the deposit and keep dealing with this day by day. You are clearly a very strong and lovely person and a wonderful mum.

Metatron · 31/07/2009 13:11

Moll I would bet money that he replaces you in a blink of an eye. He will use your daughter to feck with your head any opportunity he gets, unless of course he has something more cool and exciting to do in which case he won't bother to see her.

He is an arse. Get rid.

And yes there are wonderful men. I married one 4 years after I left my abuser. He is one of the kindest men ever.

MollFlounders · 31/07/2009 13:19

Thank you thank you thank you again. I can do this. I don't know if I can wait out another week. My tenancy starts on Monday so I can go any time next week. My parents will help me move (plus removalists) and it might be one day next week while H is at work. Plus my sister is coming next week.

Bunny- I agree that there underneath there are massive inadequacy feelings, probably verging on self loathing. He doesn't want to make that connection now. I have to accept that. As MrsF says, my leaving may spur him to. But on the other hand he may never want to, and may prefer to just remember all this as me being.... however he sees me right now. I have to accept that too.

Thank you everyone. I need to pick up the phone to the agent now.

OP posts:
Bunnysoprano · 31/07/2009 13:29

Hope you are calling now Moll - I know you can. The sooner you do, the sooner you start on the upward curve

Also, just go as quickly as you can.

I don't know how things are going to work out for him in the long run or whether he will decide to change his behaviour or not. However, if I were you, I would just concentrate on establishing that "working relationship" you need for DD. Nothing else.

Blu · 31/07/2009 13:51

Moll, I remember your 'nose' thread, and reading this, now, at this late stage, far from thinking you should 'not throw away a strong relationship' I am SO RELIEVED that you are leaving.

In leaving you are doing the very best for your dd. She cannot grow up thinking that this man's way of carrying on is normal or acceptable. Can you imagine her at 8, being subject to his rules about who can hug who, and when? Playing mind games with her at 14 about whether she loves / respects / kowtows to her father? Growing up seeing that men are not kind or supportive? Learning that babies and childrens' needs are not to be regarded, that children are a * hassle???

And as for you over-reacting...from a post of yours below: "I can't help feel that he has a rather toxic outlook on what should be a beautiful thing.". That is the most tentative under-reaction I can imagine to someone who threatens that your love for your child will turn her own father against her. He is trying to DRIVE you and your dd apart.

I am pleased you have support.

I suspect he will destroy everything of yours the minute you leave, and clean out your accounts if he can...if money is an issue fo you, transfer half the money from all joint accounts as soon as you have gone.

His telling you that it is all in your court is part of the manipulation and abuse.

Go, and good luck - your new life is waiting. You have resources and support - go for it!

When you go, remember to call the nanny...you don't want her arriving unawares.

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