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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Husband says it's over, wants custody of DD

943 replies

MollFlounders · 17/07/2009 11:12

I would really appreciate some thoughts on my situation. I've posted a few times recently about DH. There have been issues in the past but things have been particularly rocky since I went back to FT work 3 months ago (DD is now 9 months old). DH has always been quite selfish and inflexible (previous threads on this are here and here) and this has, for me, become more and more difficult to cope with since having to juggle a demanding job and of course DD. Things are at the point where counselling is required. I found a counselling group who will see us each separately and then together in a facilitated session.

So DH and I had yet another row yesterday morning. It was very trivial. I was hosting an event for some clients. DH managed to get his own last minute invitation to the same event (going as a client himself, of another host). I offered to give DH a lift in my work taxi, but on condition we operated on my timing seeing though I had to get there to meet my clients (DH is usually late to everything). DH was very pleased about the lift otherwise he was stuck with a long tube trip. We agreed, I thought, that we would leave the house asap but would absolutely be in the cab by 9am. I was up and ready, having also gotten DD up and ready for her day, by 8.30am. As it happened, my taxi arrived to collect me at 8.40am. DH had gotten up at 8am and proceeded to faff around the house getting himself ready in slow motion. I asked him a few times if it was possible to hurry things along a little as the cab was waiting downstairs with the meter ticking along. He just kept repeating in icy tones "we agreed we would leave at 9. We will leave at 9". So we left at 9.00am on the dot, with me standing around waiting for him in the meantime. In the cab, I expressed my frustration at his inflexibility and I said that I didn't feel it was normal to be so incredibly rigid. He basically said "if you want normal, you're with the wrong person. I'm not normal."

I didn't see DH again last night as he went out with a friend after the event and came home late. This morning, he was monosyllabic. I reminded him that he needed to call the counsellor for his separate session. DH said "there's no point going to a counsellor unless you tell me that your behaviour yesterday morning was totally unacceptable and will never be repeated again". Apparently I was relentless in my nagging and this is totally unacceptable and tantamount to treating him with contempt. After all, I know he hates being rushed in the mornings.

DH then asked me if I want custody (I know it's residence) of DD and I said absolutely. Asked him what he wants, he says he wants custody. She is 9 months old. We have a daily nanny but I do everything for DD outside of that. A family lawyer has told me that it seems clear that I'm the primary caregiver and that I could move out with her if the marriage ends. My main priority in all of this is DD's happiness and stability.

I guess I've got two questions. Does the situation with DH sound hopeless? I feel we're at the make or break point but I'd go through counselling if there was a chance of it working. But if he's saying counselling is pointless then can you make it work?? Other question: what do people do with residence and contact when it comes to small babies? How often would be reasonable for DH to see DD and how do you do this (e.g. him coming to my place)??

OP posts:
GeneHunt · 27/07/2009 10:25

I read this thread over the weekend and I'm so sorry that anyone could be in such a horrible situation.

My dh raised the subject with me, after reading your thread, of contact. How can you make sure that when you move out and your dh has your daughter for contact that he doesn't just keep her? My dh's point was that surely fathers and mothers have equal rights to live with their children and if a Nanny looks after the baby by day, surely the baby could live at either house.

I really feel very uneasy about your dh based on your description and just wanted to ask if your solicitor had given you any advice regarding this?

I do hope that you can move sooner rather than later and I wish you the best of luck for a relaxed and happy home life.

Lemonylemon · 27/07/2009 10:41

Moll - keep strong, keep centred. It's really, really hard, but you MUST do so, for both you and your DD.

Also, GeneHunt mentioned about access. Please, get advice on this as it also makes me feel very, very uneasy too.

My offer of practical help still stands....

SolidGoldBrass · 27/07/2009 12:44

Genehunt, your DH is being a bit scaremongery and silly - children are not parcels to be shared out according to the parents' whims, custody and residence are decided on the grounds of what's best for the child in question.

IN the case of Moll's knobber H he will undoubtedly threaten to seek custody, but Moll, don't be too distressed by the threats. He doesn't want custody in the least, he just wants to distress you by threatening to take your DD from you. Get good legal advice and TBH try and insist on supervised access at first.

ChocHobNob · 27/07/2009 14:04

I'm pretty sure you can get it written into a contact order about the child having to be returned to it's main residency if you are awarded sole custody. Also you can have it written in that a parent cannot take the child away, abroad or over a certain length of time without the other parent's permission.

NicknameTaken · 27/07/2009 15:21

I'd advise you not to make any informal agreements with your h about child residence/contact. Get a court order. The courts will take heed of the international dimension and be more willing to make an order in this case. Don't let him have unsupervised access till you have it. If he insists on seeing your dd in the interim, you can still go through a contact centre - this is called supported access rather than supervised access. You can sort it out directly with the contact centre yourself.

earlywarningsigns · 27/07/2009 16:06

Nametaken - your advice about ignoring the nagging doubts and staying strong remembering why you want to leave is so very true and good advice to Moll and other women in the same boat.

Your comment about thinking things are better when they are in fact just not as terrible as they were, certainly hit a raw nerve with.

I have hesitated to write this as I have been posting on mumsnet trying to stay positive and feel like a competent positive able mum but I feel I have to warn you Moll not to leave it too late (so I have changed my name) - yes your situation with DH is hopeless, but your life with your DD is not, you are clearly a strong able women someone for your dd to love and admire as she grows, dont let your dh spoil that.

Moll - I wish I had had the strength and confidence to leave when my dd was tiny so she did not have a chance to form memories of what her dad can be like - I clung on to the hope that things would get better - they didn't, they got worse, but I failed to see it as I got used to such a level of control and emotional abuse it felt normal - its only in the reaction of my friends and reading threads on here that i am reminded it is far from normal.

Get out as soon as you can and every wish and prayer for you and your daughter - you have to go before she can remember and understand what he is saying and doing.

My dd is old enough now to talk and remember what is going on, dp was calling me names(again) on sunday (while she was sitting on his lap) and she said to him 'poor mummy' and came over to me crying and saying 'mummy sad' she also has nightmares if he has been shouting, and will cry out in her sleep 'no daddy no, stop go away daddy'

I am leaving and I wish I had listened to the advice of my sister who said to get out earlier, but i kept doubting myself and making excuses for him, even feeling sorry for him - maybe he is like this cos of poor self esteem, he is having a rough time at work etc etc - but it is no excuse. Nametaken, I wish i had heard your advice a year ago.

NicknameTaken · 27/07/2009 16:46

Don't beat yourself up not doing it sooner, early. This type of abuse is so damn insidious that it takes a long time to even recognize. I wish you well with your leaving.

And children are resilient - I'm glad you're doing this for your dd. She is clearly a compassionate little girl and I think she'll be just fine.

HeadFairy · 27/07/2009 17:05

Moll - I've been offline for a few days but I just had to come back and say how I am that your h feels you are damaging your child by showing her how much you love her and rushing to her when you come in from work. If for one moment there was the slightest possiblity he would change then I'd say read all the child psychology books you can get your hands on, because not showing children love is much much more damaging... but let's face it, a man who feels it's wrong to hug your dd but perfectly acceptible for him to be placed at the centre of your world isn't going to change.

Good luck with it all, even when he's being nice just remember it's all part of his manipulation of you. Don't feel guilty, any man who feels you shouldn't hug your dd is a bad influence and you need to get your dd and yourself away from him pronto. I hope you manage to get in to your new house sooner rather than later.

HeadFairy · 27/07/2009 17:05

Moll - I've been offline for a few days but I just had to come back and say how I am that your h feels you are damaging your child by showing her how much you love her and rushing to her when you come in from work. If for one moment there was the slightest possiblity he would change then I'd say read all the child psychology books you can get your hands on, because not showing children love is much much more damaging... but let's face it, a man who feels it's wrong to hug your dd but perfectly acceptible for him to be placed at the centre of your world isn't going to change.

Good luck with it all, even when he's being nice just remember it's all part of his manipulation of you. Don't feel guilty, any man who feels you shouldn't hug your dd is a bad influence and you need to get your dd and yourself away from him pronto. I hope you manage to get in to your new house sooner rather than later.

HeadFairy · 27/07/2009 17:06

oops... sorry, finger trouble!

MollFlounders · 27/07/2009 17:31

Thanks everyone. Earlywarningsigns- thanks so much for posting, I really appreciate it. I hope you are successful in getting out and that your daughter flourishes in a happier environment. I know exactly what you mean about things seeming normal and needing external reality checks to realise that not everybody's relationship is like this, in fact, far from it. I wish you all the luck and strength in the world in leaving. Thanks everyone for advice re contact; I'm going to talk to the solicitor about this again.

Feeling really flat this afternoon as I just found out from the real estate agent that the landlord on the house I found to rent is messing me around. I signed my lease counterpart and paid 4 weeks rent on Friday, only to find that the landlord continued (through another agency) to show the property to other people over the weekend and now thinks she may be able to get a higher offer. I'm at the upper end of my limit so can't go any further. She is apparently going to make a decision by tomorrow afternoon. I loved the house and saw it as a real sanctuary so this is the last thing I need. Back to the drawing board....

OP posts:
HeadFairy · 27/07/2009 17:39

That's such a shame Moll, do you know anything about the other people? Perhaps you can sell yourself to the landlord without having to pay more rent... quiet, professional, non smoker, with adorable baby etc

MollFlounders · 27/07/2009 17:48

Thanks HeadFairy- I've just been trying to do that with the agent, so fingers crossed. I did the inspection with DD who was giggling and gurgling in her most endearing manner so, while he was clearly wondering why I was looking for a flat by myself, at least he knows we're a pretty safe bet as reliable tenants. This is actually the first time I've felt like crying since the first time I saw the counsellor a week ago and it's made me realise how much I'm operating on autopilot.

OP posts:
tealady · 27/07/2009 17:57

I am so sorry you are having such a hard time. But every time I read this thread I am worried that your dh may discover something as you are writing quite openly and I think it would be easy to identify you if he was snooping.

Please be very careful especially as he seems to be asking leading questions (are you planning to leave?) and behaving nicely towards you.

Even the rental falling through seems a bit strange to me. Could he have guessed and do you think your parents could help with this just to make sure that he does not suspect anything is going on. I am concerned for your safety as I think you are in a risky position if he finds something out.

Catkinsthecatinthehat · 27/07/2009 18:07

Moll, are you sure that the estate agent isn't trying it on with the flat and attempting to secure a higher rent? Rents are dropping at the moment and this sounds like a ploy esp. if you've given any indication that you're desperate to move. In any case, as you've signed a letting agreement already I would assume that it was legally binding. I'd check where you stand on this.

The only reason I suspect a con is that exactly the same thing happened to a work colleague this month - she had all the checks done and was just about to sign the contract when the letting agent claimed that the landlord had received a higher offer of rent and that she would need to beat it. My colleague called their bluff, said she wouldn't go up a penny and that they were welcome to go with the richer tenant. The agent backed down immediately and said he'd speak to the landlord and, ahem, try and persuade them to accept the lower offer. My colleague moves in today.....

Even if you do lose this flat, remember that rents are falling UK wide and you are likely to get another offer pretty soon.

Blackduck · 28/07/2009 16:02

Moll, hope conselling session went well today. And hope you sort out lease issue.

MollFlounders · 28/07/2009 19:54

Thanks blackduck for checking in and remembering about the counselling session and thanks everyone for advice re the lease fiasco (which is still ongoing, but there are other places available so I think something will work out). It was good to see the counsellor again today as I've been at a bit of a low ebb over the last day or so. H is now in a very upbeat mood, basically breezing around the flat telling me that it's all perfectly clear to him so the future is in my hands. This has led to the realisation that this situation is mine to end, which in a way has led to me feeling paralysed by fear and self-doubt again. The counsellor was good again though. This is hard work. I just have to believe that I will get through it.

OP posts:
LittleMissMummy · 28/07/2009 20:27

Moll, its sounds as though your DH has an idea that you no longer feel the same for him anymore and he may even know that you are planning on leaving. I think this is why he is acting all bright and breezy saying that the future is in your hands. He is basically making out like it will be all your fault when you decide to leave. He wants you to feel all the guilt and make out to everyone that he was all happy as larry and it was you who wanted to leave.

This is plain manipulation, total utter crap - he is the very reason that you are having to leave. Its not your fault so you shouldn't feel guilty at all.

As others have said you will doubt and second guess youself but please please keep in mind all of the threads you have posted on here re your DH. He has some serious issues with control and is extremely selfish especially when it comes to you and your DD. You should be with someone who puts both you and your DD's needs before anybody else's including his own - not that Im saying you need another man or anything but just trying to remind you that its not right that he doesn't feel that his DD is the most important thing in the world to him - its just very weird.

Not long to go now, I really hope you find another flat/house to rent. Are you parents still here? You should keep them informed as they will no doubt be worrying about you and their DGD 24/7.

Best of luck, try and keep a strong/clear head if poss

tryingherbest · 28/07/2009 20:34

Your last post gives me the impression he knows he's on the way out.

Watch him if you're worried about him taking your little one overseas. Ensure he knows NOTHING of your plans, get your family involved so that you're covered (can I assume you're both from the same country and so would have the same rights there?). I have a fear that my 'dh' would take my little one to his country - a place where in principle I would have international rights but in practice I'd have jack shit.

Keep things calm - keep things close to your chest and when you go - you really go. And get your family to stay for as long as they can after his return.

I reckon your family and counselling will see you through this.

You are incredibly brave - I wish the best for you and your little one.

expatinscotland · 28/07/2009 20:35

'He is basically making out like it will be all your fault when you decide to leave. He wants you to feel all the guilt and make out to everyone that he was all happy as larry and it was you who wanted to leave.'

Nail.hitting.head.

This is exactly what he will do.

Becuase his mission in life is to punish you. Just for being you.

Just for being someone who loves.

Because he is abusive.

Please keep telling yourself that, everytime you feel a niggle of self-doubt.

'He's abusive. He's abusive. He's abusive.'

My SIL is still having to tell herself this every day, despite having left 16 months ago.

But you know what she texted to me today, 'It's getting easier every day!'

dollius · 28/07/2009 21:36

Moll, have you put all important documents - passports, birth certificates etc somewhere safe?
Also, I think you should stop using any joint accounts - remove what cash you think is reasonable and set up accounts for yourself that he can't access.
This is not to keep money from him, it is to ensure he doesn't try to cripple you by withdrawing all your cash.
I agree that he knows something is about to go down. Don't worry about what he says to anyone else - sounds like they are all rooting for you anyway. It doesn't matter what anyone else thinks - just that you and dd are safe.
Thank goodness you have the economic power here - imagine what it would be like if you were financially dependant on him and had no sympathetic family/friends around?

TotalChaos · 28/07/2009 21:42

this - the future's in your hand guilt trip - it's the same same thing as his line of reasoning on the hitting thread - nothing's ever his fault, his responsibility....

expatinscotland · 28/07/2009 21:47

Good points, dollius.

MollFlounders · 28/07/2009 23:11

Yes I do think it's part of a guilt trip. I also wonder whether he thinks I lack the courage to go. Not sure. I've got everything important somewhere safe, including passports, and the finances are sorted too.

OP posts:
myredcardigan · 28/07/2009 23:21

Moll, I'm coming late to this, though I have read the whole thread.

On the face of it he sounds like a complete tosser! The fact is that is most likely the case.

However, (and forgive me if I'm way off the mark) do you think there's a possibility he has Aspergers? A few things make me suggest this:
1)His obsessive rigidity
2)His ability to hold a grudge for abnormally long periods.
3)Becoming fixated on small things and builing them up to be the most important things in the world (taxi)
4)Lack of emotion and normal emotional response to your DD. Also the way he reacted to you nursing him before your marriage.
5)Inability to understand or accept that he is not the centre of the universe.
6)His need to be correct about everything and inability to drop a subject until he can compartmentalise it (in his case receiving a full apology )

I have read accounts from women who are married to men with AS or have left a relationship with a man with AS. Many of their tales are very similar to yours. Many of the men in these accounts have learned to be very sociable in traditional social settings such as at the pub but cannot cope within their relationship.

Of course this is just another thought on the matter. As I said, he is most likely just a controlling, amotionally abusive idiot. Please don't let my post influence anything. Even if he does have AS, this relationship is detrimental to your emotional and physical health and you need to get out.

Keep strong.