Husband says it's over, wants custody of DD

[MollFlounders]

I would really appreciate some thoughts on my situation. I've posted a few times recently about DH. There have been issues in the past but things have been particularly rocky since I went back to FT work 3 months ago (DD is now 9 months old). DH has always been quite selfish and inflexible (previous threads on this are here and here) and this has, for me, become more and more difficult to cope with since having to juggle a demanding job and of course DD. Things are at the point where counselling is required. I found a counselling group who will see us each separately and then together in a facilitated session.

So DH and I had yet another row yesterday morning. It was very trivial. I was hosting an event for some clients. DH managed to get his own last minute invitation to the same event (going as a client himself, of another host). I offered to give DH a lift in my work taxi, but on condition we operated on my timing seeing though I had to get there to meet my clients (DH is usually late to everything). DH was very pleased about the lift otherwise he was stuck with a long tube trip. We agreed, I thought, that we would leave the house asap but would absolutely be in the cab by 9am. I was up and ready, having also gotten DD up and ready for her day, by 8.30am. As it happened, my taxi arrived to collect me at 8.40am. DH had gotten up at 8am and proceeded to faff around the house getting himself ready in slow motion. I asked him a few times if it was possible to hurry things along a little as the cab was waiting downstairs with the meter ticking along. He just kept repeating in icy tones "we agreed we would leave at 9. We will leave at 9". So we left at 9.00am on the dot, with me standing around waiting for him in the meantime. In the cab, I expressed my frustration at his inflexibility and I said that I didn't feel it was normal to be so incredibly rigid. He basically said "if you want normal, you're with the wrong person. I'm not normal."

I didn't see DH again last night as he went out with a friend after the event and came home late. This morning, he was monosyllabic. I reminded him that he needed to call the counsellor for his separate session. DH said "there's no point going to a counsellor unless you tell me that your behaviour yesterday morning was totally unacceptable and will never be repeated again". Apparently I was relentless in my nagging and this is totally unacceptable and tantamount to treating him with contempt. After all, I know he hates being rushed in the mornings.

DH then asked me if I want custody (I know it's residence) of DD and I said absolutely. Asked him what he wants, he says he wants custody. She is 9 months old. We have a daily nanny but I do everything for DD outside of that. A family lawyer has told me that it seems clear that I'm the primary caregiver and that I could move out with her if the marriage ends. My main priority in all of this is DD's happiness and stability.

I guess I've got two questions. Does the situation with DH sound hopeless? I feel we're at the make or break point but I'd go through counselling if there was a chance of it working. But if he's saying counselling is pointless then can you make it work?? Other question: what do people do with residence and contact when it comes to small babies? How often would be reasonable for DH to see DD and how do you do this (e.g. him coming to my place)??

I don't think you can explain things any more to him. From what you've said he's either going to get it or he isn't, and if he hasn't (sounds like he hasn't) then he isn't going to any time soon.

Truth to tell, he doesn't really have a chance of understanding until you've gone. An event like that may make him a little reflective, but it isn't a quality he has. He is more likely to simply see you as someone who was too 'small' to cope with him and that you were always the wrong person. Unlikely he'll start thinking that his own behaviour causes the problems.

Your next decision is whether you hang about until he's gone away, or whether you leave when the house is ready? Would you go there before you get it furnished for instance?

You are doing really well but please be careful. There is a very strong chance of another blowup from this man once he realises that you are no longer going to fall for all this crap about it being your fault that the relationship isnt working, and that you should grovel and submit immediately.
Honestly, this is the most dangerous time in abusive relatinships. Keep your mobile on you, and if you have to run, then run.

What solid said - you are being incredibly strong but do please be very careful of your safety (plural your inc. dd).

'H told me I'd withdrawn from him over the last few months and he was now reluctantly forced to accept the unpalatable truth that he's always feared: that I prioritise my work over him.'

Geezus, this guy really does think it's all about him.

First it's his own kid getting priority now it's how you earn your crust.

Moll, remember that it's PERFECTLY OK not to make a selfish knobber the centre of the universe. He may well tell you that you don't 'love' him enough - if he does, then think (even if you don;t say) well why SHOULD I love someone who is rude, selfish, manipulative, lazy and unkind?

Moll -- when you refer to your DH and his reactions and words, it puts a shiver down by back. Yes, he is controlling, probably abusive.

But more importantly, you're incompatible with him. He sounds so detached and cold.

Agree with SGB -- proceed, but with caution.

And when you go, assume that you won't ever return.

His fundamental position is that this is who he us - you have to like it or lump it. But he feels it's ok to try to change you.

What a ridiculous position.

He doesn't want a partnership with you Moll, as others have said, he sees himself as the centre of the universe with you and dd revolving around him (even though it's you who earns all the money and does all the parenting).

But most of all, he will actively resist being in a partnership with you - so there is no point trying to make this work with him.

Please listen to SGB about this being a dangerous time in an abusive relationship. He's obviously alert to the fact you are planning to leave - I would just get out if I were you.

Listen to solidgold!! You just need to remove yourself from this mans vicinity now - you can talk AFTER, if you still want to. Please don't linger, as this could be fatal.

He told me that he agreed and that he didn't think I had enough energy left to satisfy him (!). H's fundamental position is that he is who he is and it's like it or lump it. He explains away his past behaviour as having been caused by my parents and his more recent behavious as having been caused by my prioritisation of work.

Is he considering at all that marriage is a two-way thing which also involves him finding the energy to "satisfy" you, as he puts it? - No.

Yes, we can all try and justify our behaviour as having been caused by our upbringing, someone else's behaviour. However, a decent adult has to take responsibility forthemselves, have some concept about how life is to be lived and how people are to be treated and not simply be buffeted about at the whim of others. Is he such a weakling then that he cannot stand firm like a rock and be who he wants to be? He must act cold and unpleasant because of something you have done (greet your dc etc)?

I would advise you to NOT let slip, indicate that you are thinking of leaving right now. I realise it's difficult but I think less said is best atm.

sorry the first paragraph is a quote from Moll's post!

Coming late to this thread but my ex was so similar only more up and down ie he could flip from cold and withdrawing to perfectly nice and normal.

Please take the advice above and don't get drawn in to discussing how you feel with him - I tried for what seemed for ever to do this on the basis that he didn't realise the effect he was having. You need to change your mindset to realising that he is choosing to behave this way around you not that he doesn't know what he's doing. Once you 'get' this you will stop wasting energy trying to explain stuff to him

sorry that sounds patronising - it's not meant to but I know how difficult I found it - I am a person who would try and find explanations for someones cruel behaviour but never realised that they were just that - cruel - and it is all about engaging you to try and get his own way.

I got seriously ill as a result of the stress and realised that for survival and the kids survival I had to get out - it was a bit like a switch went off that I had the right to do that.

It's been 10 years since we separated and I can honestly say that I did not miss him ever - the loss of a 'happy family' yes but him no.

Although it's really hard you will feel better once you're out but be aware that he will try and suck you back in by concentrating on how he feels

sorry if this is a bit garbled but it brings back so much - what helped for me was as much support in real life as you can get - tell everyone and don't believe anything he says about people all being on his side - he will lie to get what he wants!

Everyone is right about me wasting my time explaining things. I suppose I'm doing it to satisfy myself that I really have tried everything. I can't believe that I never noticed how egocentric H is. A few people have made this comment on this thread but it really is all about him.

Last night H told me that I'd built a circle around myself and DD and that this is exemplified by the way I rush to scoop her up and give her a big cuddle when I get home from work. H again reiterated that he thought that it was important to stop this as she must be taught that she is not the most important "thing in the universe". I protested that DD is only 9 months old. It takes most of us a lifetime (if ever) to reach that epiphany and at the moment what is important is that she knows she is unconditionally loved. He disagrees with this and believes her "expectations should be managed" from now. He also commented that it was lucky that the way I treat DD hadn't damaged the way he feels about DD, which I did not like at all but did not react to.

I was puzzling over this for ages last night, feeling all the old feelings of guilt and self-doubt and wondering whether I was getting this all terribly wrong. But I think that at some level H believes that I rush to cuddle DD when I get home to somehow get at him, rather than as a spontaneous expression of my love for her. I don't think he understands that I spend all day looking forward to seeing her and that grabbing her for a cuddle is a natural reaction to the way her face lights up and her little arms and legs start flailing around wildly as soon as I walk through the door. It is unimaginable that I would just walk past her.

I can't help feel that he has a rather toxic outlook on what should be a beautiful thing. I'm going to talk to the counsellor about this. She has already commented that she believes H is very resentful of DD but I want to understand whether I'm contributing to this- well, I mean clearly I am because it's my behaviour that he's reacting to but I just want to assess whether I am doing anything wrong here.

H is now being very nice today, which is a complete about face from the last few weeks.

I'm just trying to let it all wash over me.

Kate - your comment about being sucked back in by concentrating on how he feels is exactly right. It always, always, always comes back to him. I am now aware that he takes up literally all of my head space, and I'm sick of that. Besides, it's not fair on DD.

Everyone is right - this is not an equal partnership, it is not two way, he will not change, he wants me to change, he will never offer me compassion or support or forgiveness, there is no give and take. It is like combat for him. I know this marriage cannot work in that I do not feel that my sense of self will survive a life time of this. I will eventually be crushed by it. I will not subject DD to this kind of daily dynamic and I can't afford to be crushed myself and then unable to protect her. It is just damn hard to end it.

I'm seeing my parents again this afternoon which is great for RL perspective. Yesterday I asked my dad, who is a very calm and rational person, whether he thought I was over-reacting to my situation by ending my marriage. My dad said he thought I was actually under-reacting. I need to keep hearing that message and just keep planning. On that, I may leave earlier than I thought. I'm not sure. I need to think about my logistics a bit more.

"H again reiterated that he thought that it was important to stop this as she must be taught that she is not the most important "thing in the universe"."

Doesn't seem as though H has learned this lesson yet so not sure why DD requires to at age nine months.

This is a frankly bizarre stance to take. Will be interested to hear what he says his counsellor makes of this, if he is actually going.

god he's twisted. try not to waste mind-space trying to sort him out - he's fundamentally selfish, sounds like he's better suited to having a goldfish than a child.

It helped me to realise that it is selfishness and self-centredness on their part - it's just dressed up in pseudo academic language to wrong-foot you.
I think you're doing amazingly well - way better than I did -it took me ages after we'd split to get it really clear in my head - stay strong - it will get better. I found it much less lonely once I got away from my ex. Hope this helps.

"But I think that at some level H believes that I rush to cuddle DD when I get home to somehow get at him, rather than as a spontaneous expression of my love for her."

I don't think he feels that 'at some level' - that is precisely what he feels. Everything is about him. If he is in a bad mood or uncommunicative, it is your fault (or your parents). He is not taking any responsibility for anything.

Your dad is right, you're almost under-reacting but I think that's understandable if you've had 7 years of someone telling you that you are entirely responsible for their happiness and wellbeing and that your needs (and now those of your DD) are pretty much irrelevant.

I'm going be brutally honest now - this man does not love you and he sounds like he doesn't know how to love. He may think he loves you but what you describe is not a man in love. When you love someone, you care about their wellbeing and their happiness. He doesn't care about yours as far as I can see.

So glad your counsellor is providing so much support and that your family are too. I hope they can carry on providing that emotional anchorage you need to get you through the logistics and into your new life.

I'm sorry you're going through this Moll, it all sounds very hard

Babies do need to feel they are the centre of the universe - it is essential for their emotional well-being. Your (d)H's views are totally out of kilter - please hold on to that. He sounds such a damaged individual, incapable of having an emotionally healthy relationship.

Hey Moll, he's given you more fodder for your resolve. Why is it OK for him to be the centre of the universe and his own child not to be. There is no other time in your life where you can be the centre of the universe. You will damage her badly if you take your dh's stance and you won't do that to your beautiful girl.

Hold tight to what you know. Look to your parents for example. Listen to them. Stay strong. We're thinking of you and willing you on. You can do this, it's easy in comparison to the other things you've done in your life, and you will be feel so fabulous once you've done it.

Hey Moll, here is what your DH is saying (and feeling) in very, very simple language.

"I am the centre of the universe. There can be no argument about this. Anyone who doesn't immediately gratify all my whims must be punished. Anyone suggesting that there might just be other things or other people that matter is wrong, sick in the head or being mean to me. And must be punished."

I would really love to come round to yours and kick him in the cock on your and your DD's behalf, but right now I am working on encouraging you to find this pathetic, selfish, nasty bellend completley LUDICROUS. Because he is.

Moll, nothing really to add to all the wise comments already here. You are strong and you can do this. He clearly has issues, and the whole attitude towards his DD is dreadful,. Hope you have a good week - and good luck with the counselling on Tuesday.

'he will not change, he wants me to change, he will never offer me compassion or support or forgiveness, there is no give and take.'

And he wants you to change at the expense of his and your nine month old BABY.

Please whenever you feel down or wavering, think of how his behaviour will effect this baby.

Imagine growing up feeling like you did something terribly wrong, just because you were born. Imagine growing up with someone like this: feeling unloved, trapped in a house full of tension (because children are trapped), no confidence or warmth.

That is NOT FAIR on this baby. Not at all.

You are doing the right thing.

Moll, lots more good insight here. Especially those pointing out that trying to understand and explain why he behaves this way is part of the trap.

It's not so much that it's inexplicable, more that it's pointless. What matters now is what you think, what you need and what you believe. Every time you try to get your head around how he is, it'll start to feel murky again. If you keep focused on your needs, feelings and instinct you'll probably find a kind of clarity, even if it's uncomfortable, at least you can trust it.

If you do need to reexamine his role in it, rather than looking to understand why he does it, look again at what he does. All behaviour is communication. What he thinks of you and what he expects from you is very clear in the way he treats you and the way he treats your daughter. Does it really matter why he does it?

Thanks everyone again for all the words of support, including the words of brutal honesty. On the latter, thanks spicemonster: without wanting to fall too much further into the trap of trying to understand all of this, I do suspect that he doesn't experience/feel love in the way I saw it enacted in my own family and have always understood it: valuing the needs, happiness and well being of those you love as being equal to, if not (and certainly in the case of young DCs) ahead of your own, and acting accordingly. He was telling me over the weekend what a strong sense of self he has, and that it is that can make him seem selfish. However, I wonder whether actually he has quite a weak sense of self and as a result he feels diminished if he can't impose his will on every given situation. But it doesn't matter.

Anyway, things are really difficult at the moment so it is enormously helpful to come on here and hear from you all. I still have two weeks to go before H is away (but am seeing if I could take the house a bit earlier). In the meantime, he continues to be nice to me so I feel like a horrible sneak to be continuing with my plans behind his back. I just have to keep thinking of my daughter. I cannot put her needs behind his, he will not accept that, I have to go. Simple on paper. Hard to live out.