Husband says it's over, wants custody of DD

[MollFlounders]

I would really appreciate some thoughts on my situation. I've posted a few times recently about DH. There have been issues in the past but things have been particularly rocky since I went back to FT work 3 months ago (DD is now 9 months old). DH has always been quite selfish and inflexible (previous threads on this are here and here) and this has, for me, become more and more difficult to cope with since having to juggle a demanding job and of course DD. Things are at the point where counselling is required. I found a counselling group who will see us each separately and then together in a facilitated session.

So DH and I had yet another row yesterday morning. It was very trivial. I was hosting an event for some clients. DH managed to get his own last minute invitation to the same event (going as a client himself, of another host). I offered to give DH a lift in my work taxi, but on condition we operated on my timing seeing though I had to get there to meet my clients (DH is usually late to everything). DH was very pleased about the lift otherwise he was stuck with a long tube trip. We agreed, I thought, that we would leave the house asap but would absolutely be in the cab by 9am. I was up and ready, having also gotten DD up and ready for her day, by 8.30am. As it happened, my taxi arrived to collect me at 8.40am. DH had gotten up at 8am and proceeded to faff around the house getting himself ready in slow motion. I asked him a few times if it was possible to hurry things along a little as the cab was waiting downstairs with the meter ticking along. He just kept repeating in icy tones "we agreed we would leave at 9. We will leave at 9". So we left at 9.00am on the dot, with me standing around waiting for him in the meantime. In the cab, I expressed my frustration at his inflexibility and I said that I didn't feel it was normal to be so incredibly rigid. He basically said "if you want normal, you're with the wrong person. I'm not normal."

I didn't see DH again last night as he went out with a friend after the event and came home late. This morning, he was monosyllabic. I reminded him that he needed to call the counsellor for his separate session. DH said "there's no point going to a counsellor unless you tell me that your behaviour yesterday morning was totally unacceptable and will never be repeated again". Apparently I was relentless in my nagging and this is totally unacceptable and tantamount to treating him with contempt. After all, I know he hates being rushed in the mornings.

DH then asked me if I want custody (I know it's residence) of DD and I said absolutely. Asked him what he wants, he says he wants custody. She is 9 months old. We have a daily nanny but I do everything for DD outside of that. A family lawyer has told me that it seems clear that I'm the primary caregiver and that I could move out with her if the marriage ends. My main priority in all of this is DD's happiness and stability.

I guess I've got two questions. Does the situation with DH sound hopeless? I feel we're at the make or break point but I'd go through counselling if there was a chance of it working. But if he's saying counselling is pointless then can you make it work?? Other question: what do people do with residence and contact when it comes to small babies? How often would be reasonable for DH to see DD and how do you do this (e.g. him coming to my place)??

He doesn't 'do support' Then, frankly he doesn't 'do' relationships.....cos, guess what, part of the thing about relationships is, oh, that thing called 'support'.....Moll why are you even doubting yourself!

Oh Moll that has made me cry. How terribly terribly sad. I don't have much time now but please don't give yourself a hard time for having doubts. You're doing brilliantly x

Have only skimmed thread but if he "doesn't do support" then how can he be asking for custody? Doesn't he think as a single parent he'd need to be supportive?

I agree with other posters, he sounds very much as if he is acting out a lot of issues and does not have the proper maturity or self-understanding to be a proper partner. You would be better off out of it and so probably would your DD.

I know a man similar to this, the ex-husband of a boss I used to have. Everyone always found him and his treatment of her awful but she tried and tried with him for years, even when he had an affair. They are finally getting divorced in their 50s - I wish for her sake she had done it so much sooner.

Moll, OK, so now you feel you've been punished. Enough is enough. I will reiterate my previous advice of going back to the beginning of this post and read it through and do the same with your other posts too.

So your H doesn't "do support" - well, fair enough. YOU don't need to "do a relationship" with him. This is not a relationship, it's you trying to get some emotional availability from a man who's not emotionally available. Instead, turn away and turn into yourself. Give yourself and your DD that emotion that you've been giving your H.

Your previous relationship obviously wasn't right either - so what - people don't always get it right.

But, now here's the thing - stop wasting your emotion on your H. He's not going to change and you will end up a dried out husk of a person if you continue in this way - you will rob your DD of what should be hers, ie. your care, attention, love, time etc. which you will be wasting on your H.

Also, stop with the guilt thing. I didn't treat men all that well when I was younger - like you, I would feel claustrophobic etc. and end relationships. Then I did meet the love of my life and we were together and expecting a baby - then he died. So, is that my karma? If I beat myself up like you're beating yourself up, I'd end up a wreck - so please don't do that to yourself xx

for whatever reason Moll he sounds like one of those men who wear a coat of armour the whole time. Do you think you fear feeling guilty again the way you did when you hurt that really kind man? This is a different man.

Did he want to have a baby then?

I can understand your doubts because ending a mariage when you have a DC is a very big step. It's mature and rational to take it very seriously and question yourself. But I really don't think this is your fault or that this is what you should expect from a relationship - really not. Support and communication are really vital, and the withdrawal of them can be crippling. It may not be hitting or threatening but what he's doing is dehumanising and cruel, and you don't have to live with it. You don't even love or like him so it would not even be a wrench for you personally to be without him. I think you just need to give yourself permission.

Remember, the sooner you're out of there, the better. He's a complete knobber. THis is not your fault nor is it something you can fix. You will feel sooo much better when you are away from him.

Thank you Blackduck, spicemonster, muffle. And Lemony, thank you. I'm so sorry for the loss you've experienced and for your sharing that experience on this thread. Your post is spot on - I am trying to get blood out of a stone here, and I have to remember the lightening bolt I felt the other night when I found some diary entries I made four years about this very same dynamic.

ZZZen - I do fear feeling that guilt again. You are right, it's a different man. But I think H has been emotionally damaged somehow so there is a terrible guilt about leaving him to deal with that alone. But what Lemony says is right: a lifetime in this relationship will strip me bare and that can't be my legacy for DD. I suppose I feel selfish for saving myself. The way I should look at it is that I'm saving DD. Your question about having a baby - yes, H was very much pushing TTC. I just wanted to wait until I had gotten to a very specific career milestone and H was keen to go asap after that. In fact I've always thought that DD was conceived the night it became clear I'd reach the milestone. Everyone thought he'd be a great father because he comes across as so laid-back and fun-loving. For whatever reason, I don't think he is currently emotionally equipped to be a great father - hence his insistence that DD has to fit in with us, his needs come first, she is not the most important "thing" in the house etc etc.

SGB - I do need to get out, I know I do. I'm going to tell the therapist that when I see her this afternoon so I can get started on the issues that are holding me back (the guilt, the feeling like I need permission, the sense of responsibility for H's well being etc).

Moll I understand you feel guilty about leaving him alone to deal with his damage, but he isn't helping himself, and it isn't YOUR responsibility. If he was trying that might be a different matter, but he clearly doesn't see that he has any issues to address. Your responsibility is to you and DD. You made choices at points of your life based on the information you had at that time, things have changed and its time to move on. What people see on the outside of a relationship doesn't necessarily bear any corrollation to what is going on inside.....only you know that for sure.

Moll, it is completely normal to feel doubts about this. You just have to keep telling yourself that you and your DD deserve so much better than a man who is an emotional iceberg.

He may well have emotional issues, but that is his responsibility. You have had to put up with them long enough. It sounds like you have spent the past seven years trying to support and nurture him - and his is still behaving like a complete arse. Even if DD wasn't on the scene, you couldn't sacrifice your happiness for him. That is not what marriage is supposed to be about.

You know that both you and DD will be better off out of this relationship - so there is no need to feel guilty.

I think you have to give yourself permission to leave - the therapist and your mum have already done this in no uncertain terms. And perhaps the only way to do this is to accept that your happiness counts too. But I know it is hard to do this when your emotional needs have been ignored for the last seven years.

Stay strong, as everybody else has said, you are doing brilliantly. xx

The counsellor was great again. I think I'm making progress. I told her that I feel I have to leave to save my sanity and for DD's sake. I asked her whether she thought, in her professional opinion, that I should be staying there and trying to work on things further. She said no: go, it's destructive. It's very helpful hearing someone objective say that.

I find it very interesting that he said he "doesn't do support", yet he basically demands it from you. And that has come to a head because you now have someone else who needs you more, and he is really objecting to that.

He said he "doesn't like being nurtured", yet he is angry about you nurtring his dd before him.

I think he hates you for nurturing him. But he needs it, and he hates you even more because of that.

He definitely hates you for asking for support from him.

And that's really a lot of things he is hating you for.

I feel very angry for you. My ex behaved just like this - the twisting everything around to make it all my fault was his classic form of attack, and your story is bringing that back.

Please get out.

Moll, just want you to know I'm still pulling for you!

Thanks Dollius. I spent quite a bit of time talking to the therapist about that dynamic today - he says he doesn't want to be nurtured, and I think has treated me hatefully when I have offered that to him (e.g. his hatred of my nose etc), but is now angry because the tap has been turned off. I was exploring with the therapist whether all the anger he has shown towards me (the nose, the hitting stuff, the disrespect of the gym and numerous other incidents) is him pushing me away and saying "don't nurture me!". Instead of me saying "ok, I'm off then" I've increased my efforts to be even more passive and probably masochistic in the relationship e.g. by agreeing with him that these events have all been my fault and begging him to forgive my transgressions (oh it's so pathetic, this really isn't me). That reaction has made him hate me even more. I think at one level he does love me, but there's a lot more than that going on.... and the thing is: a lot of it (maybe even most of it, I'm not sure- I want to critically assess my role in this but it will take a while to work out) has nothing to do with me.

I am getting out. I just sent my signed tenancy agreement back to the agency. Gulp.

Dollius, I'm glad you got out of your situation too. Thanks for responding, despite the bad memories.

Thanks expat!

It sounds as if he is projecting his own self hatred onto you and your dd.
He hates you if you nurture him.
He hates you if you don't.
He hates you if you put his needs second (even to dd).
He hates you if you nurture dd, even though he is not willing to do it.
Perhaps his parents made him feel disgusting for wanting to be nurtured as a child? (Stop being so pathetic, learn to be a man, etc etc)
And he is repeating the cycle with you and, especially, with dd.

What I mean is that this isn't even about you, or dd, or even your relationship with him.

It is entirely about him. And there is nothing you can do to help him. You've tried, haven't you? And nothing works.

You have to try to rid yourself of any sense that you have caused this. It has been going on for a lot longer than you have been around, I suspect. And has probably been heightened by the arrival of dd - ie someone who is dependant on him, and therefore disgusting to him.

Keep going Moll, you will feel so much better when this is all behind you, it will really be worth it. Sending you best wishes and strength!

He's got issues, sure. They are 'being a self-obsessed twat'. He is a grown man and it is his responsibility to sort himself out, but unfortunately he's unlikely to do so. What he will do instead is move on to another attractive, successful, dynamic woman and devote his energies to fucking her up as well. Because don't forget that what actually drives men like this is misogyny. They fundamentally believe that women are inferior and exist to service men, so they home in on successful women and mindfuck them like crazy - the only way they can feel like Real Men is by breaking and conquering (in their eyes) a woman, the more powerful she is the more desperate their need to destroy her.
Unfortunately (and I will confess to having made the odd similar mistake in my younger days but luckily never lived with or had DC with such mistakes) sometimes successful women have a bit of a weak spot somewhere, a feeling of guilt or inadequacy, and these tossers can smell it, can smell that they won't be told to go and fuck themselves when they start playing up... It takes a while to realise how horrible they are.
Good luck with dumping this deadweight. The only way is up, without him.

Completely agree about these men being able to smell weakness in women. Am sure that is what happened to me too.

Moll, you're so brave. This is such a hard time when you've made the basic decision but cannot act on it, so you have to sit on your hands as it were, and wait. It's not surprising you're vacillating. This man has spent years with you, making you believe that you are wrong, taking whatever you give and telling you it's not enough.

(Thanks for your acknowledgement, we're trogging along OK, but I'm just emotionally exhausted all the time atm brain is not functioning normally.)

The waiting is nearly over. Stay strong. Am thinking of you. {{{hug}}} (very un-MN I know, but hey)

Moll glad to hear about the lease, and that the conselling isgoing well. Hope you have a good weekend, and count the days - not long now. You are doing really well.....and as others have said when you have a wobble go back and read your first post(s) and imagine what you would say if it was someone else you were reading about.

well done moll, i'm rooting for you as well. xx

SGB that sounds so like my cousin's awful dh.

That's good news on the lease Moll, does it give you a feeling of calm that you have somewhere to go to etc?

I'm wondering what dh's dp are like and if you got on with them? Presume they are back in Australia. Does dh's dad act like this towards his wife?

How long to go till dh is away?

Hi everyone, another difficult weekend in the Flounders household. H and I actually had a conversation last night. In some ways it was quite constructive, because we were open with each other and I felt pleased with myself that I was able to articulate the way I feel with things. H told me I'd withdrawn from him over the last few months and he was now reluctantly forced to accept the unpalatable truth that he's always feared: that I prioritise my work over him. I did my best to explain to him that yes, I had withdrawn from him. However, the truth was even more unpalatable: it was because of his behaviour towards me and the fact that I've reached a breaking point. Nothing to do with work. H just doesn't accept this as a dynamic and wants to push it all onto my insistence on prioritising work over him (nothing could be further from the truth). In the past, I would have been guilt-stricken that maybe he was right and would have tied myself up in knots to assure him that I loved him more than work. These days, I just think "what a load of rubbish".

I explained to H that I find him very controlling. He says, "no, I'm just very controlled". I tried to explain that his "being controlled" actually impacts on me as him being controlling. He doesn't (or won't) see it. I explained that I find it hard to deal with how harsh and unsupportive he is to be with and how it is difficult to be with someone who is fundamentally not kind. He agreed that he doesn't do support (as per my post yesterday) and that he agrees he is not kind.

I told him that I felt I had put so much love, nurturing, kindness and caring into our relationship and had not had anything back. I now felt drained, spent, by our relationship. He told me that he agreed and that he didn't think I had enough energy left to satisfy him (!). H's fundamental position is that he is who he is and it's like it or lump it. He explains away his past behaviour as having been caused by my parents and his more recent behavious as having been caused by my prioritisation of work. At this point I had the feeling of beating my already tired head against a brick wall.

In the end, H told me that he loved me. He asked me if I would tell him that I loved him. I somehow fudged through this. H then asked if I was considering moving out. I said that I wanted to continue going to my own counselling and would be open to going to counselling with him but that I felt that I might need to do this from a position of more distance. We didn't talk about that any further.

So today I went with my parents and DD to look at some furniture and other things I would need for my house. It feels very surreal. It still feels right but it is agonizing. As Jux said, it's very hard having made the decision but being in stasis now... waiting for 7 August, when H goes away. The thing is, the house I'm moving to is vacant now so there is a possibility of me moving sooner, before H goes away. I need to think about that. I'm back to the therapist on Tuesday, and I think I'll need a "top up" by then.

Moll, I've followed all of your threads and am so happy that you have found such strength and clarity.

I'm on my phone so will keep it short.

The real question is why stay longer? You know you're going, you've taken a lease on a house. Is there any good reason to stay a day longer than necessary?