Husband says it's over, wants custody of DD

[MollFlounders]

I would really appreciate some thoughts on my situation. I've posted a few times recently about DH. There have been issues in the past but things have been particularly rocky since I went back to FT work 3 months ago (DD is now 9 months old). DH has always been quite selfish and inflexible (previous threads on this are here and here) and this has, for me, become more and more difficult to cope with since having to juggle a demanding job and of course DD. Things are at the point where counselling is required. I found a counselling group who will see us each separately and then together in a facilitated session.

So DH and I had yet another row yesterday morning. It was very trivial. I was hosting an event for some clients. DH managed to get his own last minute invitation to the same event (going as a client himself, of another host). I offered to give DH a lift in my work taxi, but on condition we operated on my timing seeing though I had to get there to meet my clients (DH is usually late to everything). DH was very pleased about the lift otherwise he was stuck with a long tube trip. We agreed, I thought, that we would leave the house asap but would absolutely be in the cab by 9am. I was up and ready, having also gotten DD up and ready for her day, by 8.30am. As it happened, my taxi arrived to collect me at 8.40am. DH had gotten up at 8am and proceeded to faff around the house getting himself ready in slow motion. I asked him a few times if it was possible to hurry things along a little as the cab was waiting downstairs with the meter ticking along. He just kept repeating in icy tones "we agreed we would leave at 9. We will leave at 9". So we left at 9.00am on the dot, with me standing around waiting for him in the meantime. In the cab, I expressed my frustration at his inflexibility and I said that I didn't feel it was normal to be so incredibly rigid. He basically said "if you want normal, you're with the wrong person. I'm not normal."

I didn't see DH again last night as he went out with a friend after the event and came home late. This morning, he was monosyllabic. I reminded him that he needed to call the counsellor for his separate session. DH said "there's no point going to a counsellor unless you tell me that your behaviour yesterday morning was totally unacceptable and will never be repeated again". Apparently I was relentless in my nagging and this is totally unacceptable and tantamount to treating him with contempt. After all, I know he hates being rushed in the mornings.

DH then asked me if I want custody (I know it's residence) of DD and I said absolutely. Asked him what he wants, he says he wants custody. She is 9 months old. We have a daily nanny but I do everything for DD outside of that. A family lawyer has told me that it seems clear that I'm the primary caregiver and that I could move out with her if the marriage ends. My main priority in all of this is DD's happiness and stability.

I guess I've got two questions. Does the situation with DH sound hopeless? I feel we're at the make or break point but I'd go through counselling if there was a chance of it working. But if he's saying counselling is pointless then can you make it work?? Other question: what do people do with residence and contact when it comes to small babies? How often would be reasonable for DH to see DD and how do you do this (e.g. him coming to my place)??

OMG he really is weird! Not greet and cuddle and hug a baby first? I have never heard that. I agree with Blackduck - sounds like something you would do with a dog.

I really struggle to believe that a colleague told him that. Unless the colleague was talking about a dog and your H took it and changed it to meet his needs! Definitely mention it to your counsellor.

You really to need to leave. If not for your sake then for your DD. She will be emotionally abused by him. Can you imagine every evening when you come home wanting to cuddle and hug her and knowing that he is disapproving all the time? Yuck. Soul destroying.

Good luck with the conselling today Moll.

Of course 'a colleague' didn't tell him that! He's invented it. Because it suits his controlling agenda.

Sorry, coming very late to this thread. Some brilliant advice here.

He is so making this up! He didn't go to the counsellor!
Keep strong!

Moll,

I have been following your posts and wish you all the luck in dealing with your predicament.

I just wanted to add something about your husband and the counselling. I work as a counsellor so am interested in what he said about the session. Counsellors usually make the first session an assessment one (maybe slightly longer than the 50 min norm.) The first sessions allows client and counsellor a chance to see if they can work together it also allows the counsellor to see if the client will benefit from counselling. From all you have said (and I remember the posts about hitting) it may well be that the counsellor felt your husband would not be able to engage in a counselling relationship so may have agreed that he didn't need to continue. Psychotic clients or others may not be able to work in weekly therapy and may need something more. Clients need to be able to have the capacity for insight to benefit - not sure from what you have said that your husband has this. Although of course I am making assumptions based on your post so my views may not be absolute

Will go back and read the rest.

Exactly, Buda, although I don't mind DH greeting the cat, too, when he gets home.

After all, she's v. cute!

Moll: I just echo what everyone on here has said, especially Expat's advice. Just bide your time, bide your time keep that copying going. We're all here for you and will do anything we can to help. I'm also in London - I work in the City, which I think would be quite near you. I live in SE London, so can help "out of hours" so to speak.

I for one think that your OH is psychotic or whatever the correct phrase for it is. He's also a pathological liar. I am not a young Mum, although I've got a nearly 2yo daughter (and 12 yo son) - I have never, ever heard of the greeting thing. Not ever. It's a pack of lies. Pure and simple. Just keep a note of this thread and everything you've put here so you've got it in black and white and you can print it at a later date and confirm to yourself when you have a wobble, that you've not imagined this. There's a phrase called "gaslighting" which I think you may have been told about on another thread - look that up, you'll find it quite insightful.

Very, very good luck to you - keep yourself centred, keep strong xx

very weird...and yes harlot right that counsellor might have thought "this man wont engage" so what is the point...

i am in london zone 2 nw6 so here as well...phone/rl support...compare notes!!

dont get out much with 3 dcs but work in westminster for lunchtimes....

Anyway who cares who this nutter thinks anyone should greet first - you are outta there!

Just getting back to what your solicitor said about letting him know where you are after you leave - you don't need to give an exact address, and there's a form your solicitor can fill in to avoid putting your new home address on the court forms. No point setting yourself up for trouble.

The not greeting DD first - wow, my h said that too! To be honest, I didn't have any real objections - it just meant we kissed each other first before fussing over DD. DD didn't seem to mind. Now I'm re-evaluating how this might have been part of his general "me first!" attitude.

Just to add - there is a code of ethics in counselling and counsellors should never divulge informatio to a third party. A complete boundary break and just isn't done so your h shouldn't know anything, if he did you would be well within your rights to complain to the therapist's organisation: BACP, UKCP etc. I was a little surprised your therapist told you he had been in contact with the agency.

I think Moll said earlier that the counsellors are at the same practice and the plan was that they each see a counsellor seperately and then the see another couples counsellor together. I think that is a normal way to do it - certainly when DH and I was going through counselling a few years ago the counsellor explained that this would be what normally happened. Unfortunately we were in an non-English speaking country and she was the only option so we saw her together.

I am sure that if Moll's H has actually seen a counsellor there alone with a view to starting couples counselling then the message will be passed on if they feel he has more serious issues.

Expat - we now have a puppy and I now come way down the list in DH's affections!

how are you feeling today Moll? I am so glad to hear your sister will be there when your dp leave. Does your sister live in the UK?

What I could imagine your dh doing, when I try and place myself in what I think his mind-set is, would be attempting to paint a picture of you as an unfit mother with a view to having dd taken out of your care. I am wondering how to prepare for that eventuality.

Once you leave and he does not know your address, there is a strong possibility he will turn up at work too or wait outside.

Yes, I am sure he was selling himself to the counsellor and trying to give them exactly what he thinks they want to hear. You said he is good at that and gnerally quite manipulative. However I think an experienced counsellor would soon see through it. I hope it went well today.

Any news on the house?

Hi everyone, I've been a bit quiet on here today - partially because I've had to make some small gesture towards being vaguely productive at work (!) and partially because I just feel so totally and absolutely exhausted, like my head has been replaced by a husk. H has gone out after work so mum has been here until just now.

The counselling today was useful again, but draining. At the end, the counsellor said something that shocked me: she said that when I talk about H, I sound cold and detached. I was quite taken aback, because when I talk about H I feel nervous and anxious. But it dawned on me that after the events of the last few weeks, I've reached my limit and have just switched off. This has led to a major revelation this evening: I don't need to prove to myself that H is a psychotic or an emotional abuser or anything else; it's ok for me to leave him simply on the basis that I do not love him anymore. In fact, I don't even like him. Could it be that simple??

Thank you everyone for your continued support. It is as ever making a huge difference to my sense of perspective (i.e. it's helping me have one).

Harlot/Buda/Dittany - yes I think my counsellor made a bit of a slip up when she told me that H had made an appointment to see her colleague. A few people have asked about this, but apparently she and her colleague do not discuss H and I as we each have to feel that we can speak to "our" counsellor in complete confidence. Despite the slip, I do feel confident talking to my counsellor. It does feel safe. She's good I think. She asks some excellent questions which have really got me thinking about a range of things. Not in the sense of taking responsibility for H's state of mind or behaviour but more how I've responded to it and why that might be. I'm very interested in that because when I recover from this I have no intention of repeating it.

Blackduck - thanks for your good wish this morning. I saw it when I got to work although didn't have time to reply then.

Edam/Msled - I don't think he's making it up but he is seeing things, and putting them to me, in a way that does fit with his agenda.

Lemony and C'estlavie - thank you so much, it is unbelievably kind of you to offer RL support. Thank you, I really appreciate it.

Nickname - interesting that your H said that too. For me if he'd said that and there had been none of this other background (particularly his seeming disengagement from DD) then I probably wouldn't have taken particular notice of it. It does seem a little odd though. I'm sure most parents' impulse on getting home is to rush to their DCs to re-establish that bond and just enjoy their loveliness. As someone said last night, growns up understand the concept of waiting but DCs (young ones) can't.

ZZen - my sister lives in Australia, which is where I'm from, but she's doing a PhD at the moment (clever girl, my sister) and so has flexibility with her time. I am slightly worried about the unfit mother thing as well. There are of course no grounds for this whatsoever but I fear it only because he is so machiavellian and vengeful. I will ask my lawyer about it. I have written a very detailed note (dates etc) of things which have happened over the last 6 weeks, including "my needs come before DDs", "I wanted 3 kids before I realised what a f*cking hassle one was" etc etc etc so I have a good record of his outlook on parenting.

And the best news - I've seen lots of houses now, about 8 or 9 of them, but the one I saw first was the one. And the landlord accepted my offer this evening! Now I just have to keep remembering that it's ok to leave.

Hi Moll, thats great news, its seems that you have now accepted what you are feeling and have realised that his behaviour/attitude is no longer even the issue. It seems like years of his acting this way has led you to no longer being in love with him.

It is perfectly fine for you to go, you are looking after yourself and DD - her needs are more important than anything else and you obviously have her best interests at heart.

Glad you had your offer accepted on the house and that your lovely sister is going to help you with the move.

You should think about the offers of meeting up for coffee with a couple of the posters, I would offer myself but live in Glasgow so might be a bit difficult

Good on you for getting on with things, it must be quite stressful and tiring dealing with all this plus working full time and by the sounds of it, looking after your DD by yourself at night.

Keep a strong head and just keep thinking that by this time next month you will be where you want to be - away from 'D'H, just you and your sweet DD in a lovely new wee house xxx

Moll good to hear from you and glad it is coming together. His behaviour and attitudes certainly aren't normal - was thinking again about the greeting thing and I have the most fabulous picture dp took of the back of ds and the dog, both up at the kitchen door (dog on his hind paws, ds on tip toe) looking through the glass as I came down the hall - how could you ignore that
glad the conselling is helping and that you can learn from it andnot repeat certain behaivours that are not good for you.

Moll, brilliant news about the house. Sorry haven't been on this thread a while - got probs in RL and my heads not really with it. I had a fantastic post all lined up about what your dh said about greeting babies, but it went all peculiar and I forgot half the words I need to do it, so anyway, HE IS WRONG! AS WRONG AS IT IS POSSIBLE TO BE. Just in case you needed someone else to convince you.

Stay strong. August is nearly here. Keep those notes up. Love your dd and your parents and especially yourself.

Yay for the new house!

I'm not surprised you sounded cold and detached Moll, I think it's a safety mechanism when you've been hurt a lot. Kind of distance yourself from it.

Well done with the house.

Oh help I'm wobbly again this morning despite my fighting words last night.

H is still not speaking to me, one week and one day on from taxi-gate (except for the exchanges I've put on here e.g. the baby affection issue from Weds night). He was out at some drinks after work last night, came home shortly before 10pm, responded in monosyllables to my questions about how his day/evening had been and did not ask me anything or ask after DD. It's wearing me down.

When I've been on here or speaking to my mum or my sister I feel very clear about my situation - that I must be mad to be considering staying in this relationship, for my sake and, much more importantly, for DD's sake. But when I woke up this morning I felt consumed by panic and uncertainty again. And guilt. Why do I feel sorry for H and feel this is all my fault? Am I being selfish and defeatist for leaving this relationship? Is it ok to have stopped loving someone after all that has happened or do I have unrealistic expectations of marriage? Why do I feel like I need someone to give me permission to leave?

It is so pathetic.

I'm really sorry - I feel like I let everyone down when I have these backsliding episodes.

don't worry in the least what we might think, it is your life and you don't live it to please us (you don't even know us after all). You know that, relax. I think any major change in your life is going to have ups and downs, and days when you feel elated, days when you feel sick with worry and think you've got it all wrong. Keep at the therapy I think and maybe write a notebook for your daily thoughts (keep it locked away at work obviously).

How long have you two been together and what drew you to him in the first place?

Jux - I hope you are ok in RL. I really appreciate you taking the time to post when you've got your own RL issues to be getting on with.

Moll, the 'backsliding' as you call it is bound to happen. You are making a big decision and a big change and most human beings, well we are rubbish at change! You can fall out of love with someone, it does happen. And feeling sorry for H just proves you are a good person, but doesn't mean you have to stay. Think how he treated you last night, not talking, basically cold shoulder, not asking about dd - frankly if dp did this to me I'd leave him and I haven't put up with anything like you have! Be strong, it will be hard, read this thread, post, talk to your mum and sister.
I am trying to make a decision re a job and re moving area and I think frankly I must be driving dp spare, but it is all about fear. You have come so far, don't stop now.

ZZZen - we've been together just over 7 years. I was coming out of a previous long term relationship and, looking back, was a bit of a wreck. My previous partner was incredibly kind, incredibly loving and made me the centre of his life. It sounds horrible and ungrateful on my part, but it became quite a claustrophobic relationship for me. I ended it and my partner was very, very hurt and we have never spoken again.

I swore off relationships for a while but then met H within weeks. He was very cool and detached, kept himself to himself, didn't rush after me. I remember being very surprised when he told me he loved me as I had no idea as to what his feelings were about me.

Within weeks of us meeting, he became very ill (serious case of a childhood illness) and I took care of him because he had no family here. I was quite surprised at the time as to how ungrateful he was and vowed that I would end it once he was recovered. What actually happened was that when he was better I told him I was very hurt by his seeming lack of appreciation for being literally nursed back to health by me. He told me, very rationally, that he didn't like being nurtured, didn't need it, and I shouldn't expect him to be grateful for those things. So it was perfectly simple- I should be more self-sufficient and not take care of him and then I wouldn't be hurt when he didn't reciprocate and didn't thank me for the nurturing. And that's how we started.

Of course, what has happened is that I've continued to support and nurture him, he has never really given anything back (he says quite openly that he doesn't "do" support) and now I've reached the end of the line where my tank is dry and he is accusing me of being cold and robotic. My therapist asked me whether I thought I needed to be punished after ending the relationship with the kind and loving man who I hurt horribly. Probably, yes.