Husband says it's over, wants custody of DD

[MollFlounders]

I would really appreciate some thoughts on my situation. I've posted a few times recently about DH. There have been issues in the past but things have been particularly rocky since I went back to FT work 3 months ago (DD is now 9 months old). DH has always been quite selfish and inflexible (previous threads on this are here and here) and this has, for me, become more and more difficult to cope with since having to juggle a demanding job and of course DD. Things are at the point where counselling is required. I found a counselling group who will see us each separately and then together in a facilitated session.

So DH and I had yet another row yesterday morning. It was very trivial. I was hosting an event for some clients. DH managed to get his own last minute invitation to the same event (going as a client himself, of another host). I offered to give DH a lift in my work taxi, but on condition we operated on my timing seeing though I had to get there to meet my clients (DH is usually late to everything). DH was very pleased about the lift otherwise he was stuck with a long tube trip. We agreed, I thought, that we would leave the house asap but would absolutely be in the cab by 9am. I was up and ready, having also gotten DD up and ready for her day, by 8.30am. As it happened, my taxi arrived to collect me at 8.40am. DH had gotten up at 8am and proceeded to faff around the house getting himself ready in slow motion. I asked him a few times if it was possible to hurry things along a little as the cab was waiting downstairs with the meter ticking along. He just kept repeating in icy tones "we agreed we would leave at 9. We will leave at 9". So we left at 9.00am on the dot, with me standing around waiting for him in the meantime. In the cab, I expressed my frustration at his inflexibility and I said that I didn't feel it was normal to be so incredibly rigid. He basically said "if you want normal, you're with the wrong person. I'm not normal."

I didn't see DH again last night as he went out with a friend after the event and came home late. This morning, he was monosyllabic. I reminded him that he needed to call the counsellor for his separate session. DH said "there's no point going to a counsellor unless you tell me that your behaviour yesterday morning was totally unacceptable and will never be repeated again". Apparently I was relentless in my nagging and this is totally unacceptable and tantamount to treating him with contempt. After all, I know he hates being rushed in the mornings.

DH then asked me if I want custody (I know it's residence) of DD and I said absolutely. Asked him what he wants, he says he wants custody. She is 9 months old. We have a daily nanny but I do everything for DD outside of that. A family lawyer has told me that it seems clear that I'm the primary caregiver and that I could move out with her if the marriage ends. My main priority in all of this is DD's happiness and stability.

I guess I've got two questions. Does the situation with DH sound hopeless? I feel we're at the make or break point but I'd go through counselling if there was a chance of it working. But if he's saying counselling is pointless then can you make it work?? Other question: what do people do with residence and contact when it comes to small babies? How often would be reasonable for DH to see DD and how do you do this (e.g. him coming to my place)??

Thanks Buda and C'estlavie.

DH is still in monotones and monosyllables, barely acknowledging my "hi" when I got home from work and responding with "fine" to "how was your day".

So I have just put DD to bed and came out to the living room to find H reading one of the baby books I bought when I was pregnant with DD. I casually asked him what he was reading. "Nothing". So I asked gently whether there was anything that was worrying him re DD that he was looking up in the book (this would be unheard of). He then said that one of his colleagues today had volunteered the anecdote that he and his wife had always made a big point of being very affectionate to one another when they saw each other after work before they were affectionate to their baby. That way the baby would always know that it was not the most important thing in the household. H said "so that's got to stop". Meaning my greeting DD when I get home from work. Perhaps in a healthy relationship this would be a really good point. H said to me that apparently this is something everyone knows and does and it's just "basic".

Went on to say that got nothing out of counseling as he is so clear on what's happening and the counsellor agreed that he was very clear and didn't need another session. H said I needed to face my lack of honesty about what was going on.

I feel sick.

I actually wonder if the counsellor has said that they wont see him again.

I have to say, I am shocked at his latest comments and the fact that he is still not speaking to you a week after taxi-gate

"That way the baby would always know that it was not the most important thing in the household."

what a f*cking freak to come out with that.
for baby not being the most important thing. I wouldn't believe that any work colleague said that as it's so odd!. btw all this "everyone knows" bull is IME part of the armoury of the control freak.

'H said "so that's got to stop". Meaning my greeting DD when I get home from work. Perhaps in a healthy relationship this would be a really good point. H said to me that apparently this is something everyone knows and does and it's just "basic".'

She's a BABY. She's his child. When Daddy gets home from work here, he opens his arms for all of us. The girls run to him and he kisses me above their heads then we all have a family cuddle.

DS is still only 8 months and trying to crawl, so he goes in the living room and picks up his 'wee man' for a cuddle.

He's a freak, imagine dictating that greeting a tiny baby 'has to stop'.

Bet he never saw the counsellor. Bet he cancelled the appointment.

Who cares?

Get your daughter, and yourself, the hell away from this man!

Take your solicitor's advice and do it whilst he's away.

Play the game for one more week, you're well used to it, anyhow.

He goes out the door you carry on copying everything.

Then you call your folks and whoever else you need and get your stuff and your child OUT.

He.is.emotionally.abusive.

I am a SAHM and DH always greats the DCs first. Because, you know, er they are children and I am an adult. I can wait 5 minutes and actually it makes me very happy to see my DCs happy.

Sorry Moll, but your DH is seriously weird. He really does seem to think the universe revolves round him.

I agree with everyone else, he is emotionally abusive.

However, bravo to you, some women never see the light.

God, what a fucked up idea of what is 'normal'. Sadly I think quite a few men think like this - I can imagine my XP saying it.

You are doing absolutely the right thing, Moll.

And your mum is amazing - I had tears running down my face reading her text to you.

Take care.

I cant believe he actually said that, I've never heard that before in my life, do you think a colleague really told him this or do you think he has just made it up?!

The first thing my DP does when he gets in from work is give our DD a big kiss and ask her questions like 'What did you and mummy do today?' or 'Did you miss daddy today?', then she gives him big smiles and tries to talk back (she's only 10 weeks!) and I just love it, I want him to greet her first rather than me.........obviously !! As she is our DD !!

I mean for him to tell you that you greeting your DD as soon as you get home has 'got to stop' - who does he think he is?! He is acting like an infant who is jealous of a new baby brother/sister - not a grown man who has a lovely DW and DD.

'That way the baby would always know that it was not the most important thing in the household' - after her said this you should have said 'she is the most important thing in the household you fucking selfish bastard' and punched him in the face. Then you could've told him that he had broken his nose and he should get surgery - see how he likes it

Although this has probably mad you feel sick and angry, it must make you feel more certain and confident about your plans !

I am so glad your parents are there!

And don't forget, as you are in the London area, there are loads of MNers there, many on this thread, who'd be happy to help with the move, support, even meeting up so you get some time for a cuppa whilst your daughter plays with other babies/children.

he sounds like some victorian father - children should be seen and not heard.. Is he for real? and the 'its got to stop' even if it wasn't a totally bizarre thing to say, is there to be any debate? - clearly not, HE makes the rules, you have to abide by them...
Moll get those bags packed and get out for both your sakes....

moll, I'm coming to this late int he day, but my inital reaction (apart form echoing everything expat says) is if any man (or person) told me how I could or could not greet my child there would be hell to pay - seriously, my lad is 1 hour in the gym's creche and I bend down ad give him a big hug - kids need affection as well!!! honestly - am hopping mad on your behalf on this front - twat doesn't like it he's not your main focus.

anyhow a small point, if your parents are still in the country please please give them ALL paper work you photocopy, everything life insurances passports the works, if you can take small amounts of money from joint accounts without him realising - ie cash back as tescos etc??? but make sure you parents have it all, including a spare bag incase you and DD need to get away without all of your belongings.

I am 18 months (well nearly 2 years down the line from seperating with an abusive EX) my parents said the exact same thing to me yours have, I like you had learnt - like most of us survivors of abuse, to cover up the truth, to 'protect' my XH from everything and didn't let my family or friends even who I lived with with very closely know or see what was going on. Once we'd split up and I began to slowly open up to my family at first everything came out, everything. It got to the point where they said like your mum has basically 'we forbid you to go back to him' in turn it became easier to tlak with friends about it, who also confessed they had become extreamly worried - so I guess hiding it wasn't a key thing.

Any how, my point is, as a result of this, and my family being so strong and supportive, they all closed ranks and protected DS & I during teh worst so we could get over it. Please allow your family to do the same for you. there will be times you'll feel like not getting up, there will be times when you're wonder if you've done the right thing, or if you'd done something different, or if you could just get him to listen, but your family will council you, they'll be there to support you, which tbh is waht you need right now.

I know for sure without a strong support network in RL I would have sunk.

cherish your DD, smile sweetly at your 'H' and carry on. remember we are elegant on top of the surface even if we're paddling like hell to keep our heads up.

(sorry if you've done the paperwork stuff n I sound patronising, I just know how some men can be esp when they feel their loosing control & there's deffo no way of them getting it back - ie u thinking for yourself!)

Actually the not greeting thing is somethng you do to dogs to make them realise that they are not pack leader, sure he hasn't been reading a dog training manual

Oh god thank you everyone. My head is so messed up. Straight after the exchange above H told me that a friend of his was coming over for dinner and they are now sitting out on our balcony having beers and pizza and having a fine old time. I can't tell you how relieving it is to read that people feel what he said about how I should deal with my daughter is weird. I felt sick to the pit of my stomach, I still do. But I also get those horrible nagging little voices- maybe he is right. I also feel sick about the counsellor. I do believe that he saw him and I do believe that he will have painted a picture where I am a vile nagging harridan who makes his life a living hell. I am seeing my counsellor tomorrow and I'm not sure whether or not she will have spoken to her colleague who saw H, or whether she will tell me even if she has. I'm not sure what their protocol is. H has also told me that "there is a time limit on all of this", trying to get me to buy into that by saying he was sure I felt the same way too. I was just noncommital and said I had another appointment tomorrow and needed to work through that. My parents are back in London tomorrow and H is going out after work, thank god, so tomorrow is another day.

Expat - your DH sounds wonderful (in this respect anyway!). I would love to have a DH who comes home and greets his baby before me. Thanks for the suggestion re practical support too. The best news I had today was that my lovely sister is going to come out the week H is away to be here and help. She is a wonderful woman.

And thank you everyone else. The "that's got to stop" was particularly unpleasant.

As someone said on this thread earlier today, I have to just use these negative experiences with H to spur me on. It's just hard because I no longer trust my internal compass so every incident lets out the little doubting voices.

please listen to us, or at least your councillor, I know it's hard after 7 years of being ground down by this imbicile, you need to learn to trust your instincts again, where your DD is concerned, you KNOW what is right you do, just believe it. you KNOW what is right for her future.

she prob won't say anything about your H's session with his guy, might say they met but I shouldn't think she'd disclose anything. (confidentiality etc)

those little voices of doubt as well, are voices he's put there, to make you think you're going scatty or something and that you shouldn't trust yourself. It will take time and slowly you will trust yourself again. Just believe it. if all else fails, do as I did, (handed control to my mum for a while lol. well jointly asked her advice on everything right down to clothes I was buying) but it's come good now. long slog but it gets easier.

I also find his comment of the time limit quite disturbing as well - why should you be rushed into working on his time scale when it comes down to your emotional well being (and i'd say the same to a man as well) we all know that happy parents = happy kids so better you take 6 months if needed as opposed to 6 sessions to get yourself well adjusted.

oh and also, i'd tell your councillor about the parenting episode, my thougths on that is they can't help fix you if you keep things back/are not totally honest and open with them'

Is he enjoying the balcony pointedly again?

He is a bullying twat. Do not expose you or your dd to this moron for a minute longer than you have to.

Ps. Blackduck - your dog training manual gave me a small smile. Gallows humour and all that.

Southsbelle - I'm glad you got out of your situation and you are right about the RL support. Being able to talk to my mum and my sister, who know me so well, is massive. I know they've got no other agenda other than to help me re-find myself and to protect me and DD in the meantime. I'm so grateful. All the documents I have photocopied (and my passports plus DDs) are in a locked drawer in my office. Tomorrow night will be another photocopying session, plus making CDs of photos. I just have to keep going with that and try to stay focused throughout the wobbles.

Oh Moll. It's really sad for all of you that he doesn't think your daughter is the most important person in the house, IMO. She needs to be the most important person in the house until she is big enough to wait for things. That's a long way off. He sounds horrible; I'm shocked that he wants to teach your DD that she isn't important at such a young age. I can hardly believe anyone would think like that.

I have a DD of nearly three. When her dad comes home from work and she is still awake (not often), DH texts me to say he's nearly there and we stand at the window to see him arrive and then he gives her the most enormous hug and kiss before I even get a look in. And that's as it should be. I'm a grown up, I can wait. She can't. When I get home from work and DH has been in charge, the same thing applies in reverse. I would be furious with anyone who suggested that I shouldn't kiss my daughter the first chance I get when I've been away from her.

And yes, what Expat said. I am in London (Richmond) and if that's anywhere near you, you are more than welcome to call on me for a bit of support. Would be happy to meet for a coffee or something (but with my DD as have v little childcare available). I can't drive so can't help with moving stuff but would be more than happy to help with anything that I could.

DD loves babies and would adore to see your daughter if you want to meet up and have a chat some time.

Moll, a lot of abusers seems like wonderful people to the outside world. Please don't let this bother you!

Hell, a Miss America from the 1960s had a father who was a prominent doctor from an amazingly wealth, old money family. He sexually abused her and her sister from an early age.

Everyone thought he was Mr Wonderful.

She successfully prosecuted him decades later.

You are all so kind. Thank you. Horton thanks very much for the offer of a coffee; it's incredibly good of you. I'm further east, in Zone 1, but nothing's insurmountable (well, that's what I'm counting on these days anyway).

Hi Moll

Another thing you should think about doing, if you have joint bank accounts, is popping into the bank and seeing if there is anything you can do to stop him emptying them when you leave - such as needing both your signatures for any withdrawals over a certain amount, or restricting how much you can transfer via internet or phone banking.

I imagine your bank can help you.

Also, if you have joint credit cards, see about getting your name off, or again, limiting how much can be spent in one day (for example) so he doesn't go spendy crazy and leave you with the bill.

I'm trying to think of other practical things.

Having ready access to some cash is a good idea too - can you try stockpiling some without him noticing?

I agree that I would have a bag packed - maybe left at work - with some spare clothes, jewelry, your phone charger, any other favourite things from around the house, just in case you do need to make a quick getaway.

Just imagine how amazing it will feel to be able to come home in the evening and not have that tense feeling of "what kind of mood will he be in tonight?".

Best of luck x

moll, you'll have wobbly times, the key thing is to remember you are a very strong lady, deep down you CAN do this. when you feel low etc then come online for MN support, of def ring your mum and sister.

glad you've got everything safe, and yes the pic's is a v good idea, I didn't manage to do that with DS. so had to play nicely with XH until he got around to doing it for me.

I does get easier, Just think about the day you can come home from work, scoop your baby into your arms and not live walking on egg shells being treated like some sort of perpetulent child by a man who's a big over grown baby himself.