Husband says it's over, wants custody of DD

[MollFlounders]

I would really appreciate some thoughts on my situation. I've posted a few times recently about DH. There have been issues in the past but things have been particularly rocky since I went back to FT work 3 months ago (DD is now 9 months old). DH has always been quite selfish and inflexible (previous threads on this are here and here) and this has, for me, become more and more difficult to cope with since having to juggle a demanding job and of course DD. Things are at the point where counselling is required. I found a counselling group who will see us each separately and then together in a facilitated session.

So DH and I had yet another row yesterday morning. It was very trivial. I was hosting an event for some clients. DH managed to get his own last minute invitation to the same event (going as a client himself, of another host). I offered to give DH a lift in my work taxi, but on condition we operated on my timing seeing though I had to get there to meet my clients (DH is usually late to everything). DH was very pleased about the lift otherwise he was stuck with a long tube trip. We agreed, I thought, that we would leave the house asap but would absolutely be in the cab by 9am. I was up and ready, having also gotten DD up and ready for her day, by 8.30am. As it happened, my taxi arrived to collect me at 8.40am. DH had gotten up at 8am and proceeded to faff around the house getting himself ready in slow motion. I asked him a few times if it was possible to hurry things along a little as the cab was waiting downstairs with the meter ticking along. He just kept repeating in icy tones "we agreed we would leave at 9. We will leave at 9". So we left at 9.00am on the dot, with me standing around waiting for him in the meantime. In the cab, I expressed my frustration at his inflexibility and I said that I didn't feel it was normal to be so incredibly rigid. He basically said "if you want normal, you're with the wrong person. I'm not normal."

I didn't see DH again last night as he went out with a friend after the event and came home late. This morning, he was monosyllabic. I reminded him that he needed to call the counsellor for his separate session. DH said "there's no point going to a counsellor unless you tell me that your behaviour yesterday morning was totally unacceptable and will never be repeated again". Apparently I was relentless in my nagging and this is totally unacceptable and tantamount to treating him with contempt. After all, I know he hates being rushed in the mornings.

DH then asked me if I want custody (I know it's residence) of DD and I said absolutely. Asked him what he wants, he says he wants custody. She is 9 months old. We have a daily nanny but I do everything for DD outside of that. A family lawyer has told me that it seems clear that I'm the primary caregiver and that I could move out with her if the marriage ends. My main priority in all of this is DD's happiness and stability.

I guess I've got two questions. Does the situation with DH sound hopeless? I feel we're at the make or break point but I'd go through counselling if there was a chance of it working. But if he's saying counselling is pointless then can you make it work?? Other question: what do people do with residence and contact when it comes to small babies? How often would be reasonable for DH to see DD and how do you do this (e.g. him coming to my place)??

Doubting yourserlf is normal; that's why you've stayed so long. Also, yesterday there was a lot of emotion and adrenaline with seeing the counsellor etc. and this is almost like the comedown the morning after the night before.

It's not straightforward but it's worth remembering that it will be up and down for a while. My partner started being really nice to me last week and I was doubting myself as I'm in a similar situation to you. But of course it didn't last and, having followed your thread, I'm afraid I don't think his constructive phase will last.

Wouldn't it be nice to go home of a night and not to worry so much about what he might have or have not done or said?

I haven't read your other threads Moll. I started reading this one and thought 'OMG get out of there'. I was on tenterhooks for ages as I read. You went to your first session and I relaxed, I read about your parents giving you so much support, looking at houses with you, and your certainty that your mum would stay here longer to see you sorted (and I'm sure she will). You made me feel happy!

Please don't falter. You are not actually responsible for my happiness, but you are responsible for your own (and your dd's for a few short years). Please put that first. Your dh is a very strange man and very controlling and you are wobbling and thinking maybe he's right and maybe you should give him another chance. And if you do, you will set yourself a pattern for many years to come.

Please believe in that woman, you know the one, the one who is strong and decisive and can look after herself. The woman who left her home and went to the other side of the world - my god, that's a strong woman. That woman who, on the other side of the world, made a home, made a baby, got a hard difficult demanding job and manages to juggle all that ON TOP OF pandering to an infantile, selfish, sulking, whinging man who impedes her every progress and resents the time she spends with THEIR child. How amazing is that woman. How much can that woman do if she were to follow her own judgement that that man is not worth hanging on to? Hey, that fantastic strong brave woman is you. Believe in yourself.

Thanks Queen - it is like a comedown, you're right. I suppose I have to expect backsliding and I almost wish DH would just be consistently awful as then the path would be clear. I wonder whether he realises that. I find it hard to believe that he's deliberately manipulating things. I suppose fundamentally I worry that he has some difficult issues he needs to address and I feel guilty for not sticking with him to help him address them. He said something like this last week and it popped up in my mind today- he said something like "you used to support me [through his difficult work stress] but it's stopped; it's like something has broken". He's right because the way he spoke to me in relation to the hitting was so horrible that it broke the camel's back.

Jux - what an amazing post. You have really stunned me. Is that really me you're talking about?? Thank you.

'it's like somethings broken' your illusions perhaps? Moll so muchwise stuff said here - print this out and read it in moments of doubt. Of course, there are times he will seem reasonable and rational, but you have to hang on to the overall feelings. His response to you no longer supporting him is interesting - he is NOT a child, noone in a relationship supports the other permanently - we do it for periods of time as and when required, but we are not there to be someone elses emotional crutch and add children into the equation and, well, we justdon't have time!

Moll, so many women are coming here on this thread, sharing their experiences of having been in abusive relationships themselves, or having had an abusive parent.

Please re-read and re-read again. Every day.

It took my SIL 12 years to finally get it up to leave her abusive partner.

She'd been with him since she was 17.

The damage will take years to repair, it won't be overnight and no one can expect it to be.

She stayed out of guilt (he'd had a bad childhood) and out of hope, too, because when times were good, they were, well, good.

But now, even though she really has been through hell, they're good all the time, and she doesn't have to walk on eggshells or feel guilty about just being her.

She's only 30, too, so still has the rest of her life in front of her (she had children when she was just 18 and again at 19).

Yes, I am talking about you. Don't forget who you really are.

Look, he may be mad, but he's not so mad that he can't be perfectly normal and cheerful with his colleagues and mates. He chooses only to be 'mad' or 'have issues' with you. Which means you are neither the problem or the solution to his 'issues', whatever they may. Actually I would bet his 'issues' are a desire to control and torment you, and it's not your job to facilitate that.

Ok sorry everyone for my wobble. My resolve has been assisted by DH himself. Two things: 1. when I got home from work this evening I was surprised by the thrill I felt when I realised that he was not yet home (he usually gets home from work before me) so I could spend a lovely half hour chatting with our nanny and playing with DD. 2. when I'd put DD to bed and DH was home I asked very nicely whether he'd called the counsellor (knowing that he had). He said yes he had, but I knew his views on that. I asked what he meant. He said "as I've very clearly outlined, there is no point going to counselling when you have systematically and deliberately failed to apologise to me for your treatment of me on Thursday [the taxi incident]. If you cannot recognise how disgracefully you have treated me then counselling will not help us." And I was feeling guilty because I thought he wanted to give counselling a decent go whereas I am preparing to leave! It sounds strange, but this ridiculous conversation has almost cheered me up.

Ps. Blackduck - yes, my illusions. They did break then, well, cracked irreparably. One day they will have shattered entirely (only in relation to DH, I mean).

Expat - thank you. I hope your SIL is ok. I can't believe she had such a terrible experience at such a tender age. But on the positive side, she is still so young. I'm glad she has close family like you.

PrincessT- you are right, I have to keep reminding myself that these issues are not new. They go into abeyance at times and you (I) try to forget about them. Well, I have in the past anyway. I think my parents are great. They have gone away for 2 days on a little trip they had planned up north. They didn't want to go, but I wanted them to. Mum sent me a text tonight "dearest girl you deserve so much more than this man can offer. I am your mother and I would never lie or give you anything but a true answer. Trust me your well being is all I care about. Please think back to the therapist. Her opinion is professional. This man has damaged you enough. You have to be strong. We will help you."

Jux - thank you.

Msled - you're right. I have to teach myself to believe that I'm neither the problem nor the solution here. It will be a hard lesson to take on board. It will take time. Thanks.

Oh Moll, your lovely mum! I'm so pleased your parents are here.

Just reread this thread again, and my heart starts beating harder and I get excited when you are talking about your session with the counsellor/psychiatrist. You can do this, really you can.

Early next month? Don't let me nag you

"dearest girl you deserve so much more than this man can offer. I am your mother and I would never lie or give you anything but a true answer. Trust me your well being is all I care about. Please think back to the therapist. Her opinion is professional. This man has damaged you enough. You have to be strong. We will help you."

What a wonderful mum. You'll be just like her.

Moll, sorry, I'm just going to have to be blunt: he's a fucking wanker.

He really is. He's the worst of wankers in that he can sometimes put on a show for you to get what he wants. That's even worse than your run-of-the-mill tool.

Moll - this is a slightly edited piece of brilliant, brilliant advice that RealityIsMyOnlyDelusion posted a while ago. It's very very true. Please remind yourself of it whenever you wobble.

Most people have happy relationships, where disagreements happen and are resolved without resorting to shouting, name calling, stonewalling or violence.

Most people's partners are happy for them to see their family as much as they want, pursue their own friendships and interests, work and education, have access to money, make decisions.

Relationships are not supposed to be hard work, that is a big fat myth. Yes, you should work at your relationship but that is not the same thing at all.

Nobody should live their life in fear of angering their partner, or skirting round issues that might upset him. Or put up with cheating and lying for fear of rocking the boat.

Nobody should 'stay together for the children', or because of your marriage vows. If your husband treats you badly, he has broken the vows. Children are much much happier being brought up by parents who live apart than in an atmosphere of fear and loathing.

Be on your own. It is much easier than sticking by a tosser. If you have been in more than one abusive relationship, seek some counselling, you may be co-dependant, or you may be modelling relationships on a warped template, perhaps from childhood.

If he abuses you, he is not a good father. Good fathers don't treat the mother of their children with disrespect.

It doesn't matter how much he says sorry and makes it up to you, if he continues to abuse you those apologies are worthless.

Don't be fooled into thinking the abuse isn't 'bad enough to leave'. If you are treated in any way less than cherished, loved and respected, it is bad enough to leave.

You've come so far Moll, keep reminding yourself of that

Wow - really good post!

Gosh Spicemonster (and Reality) that is a fantastic post. Crumbs: "Relationships are not supposed to be hard work". That alone hits me in the face.

Tatty, Jux and Princess - my mum is great, really great. We've had our ups and downs over the years but I always know she's there for me. I will be the same for DD because that's the example mum has set for me. I owe it to her if nothing else (plus I love DD more than life itself of course).

Expat - I am coming around to this view. I will have to work through the fact that he has reserved this treatment for me in particular and I have accepted it.

Moll, I read this thread everyday and I am really glad you are seeing sense again - I know you must feel a bit guilty when he is being really nice to you but as you said just try to remember all the reasons which brought you to the conclusion that you are better off without him.

Your mother sounds amazing, what a lovely txt, nearly shed a few tears reading that! You are so lucky to have parents like that. Im sure you will be the same with your own DD.

Keep your chin up and I bet 6 months from now you'll look back at this and just feel like such a weight has lifted off your shoulders.

xx

Moll, I'm going to a wish for you that sounds horrible in the short term - I hope your husband will continue to be unpleasant until you leave! It's hard not to wobble when he's nice (and you get to the stage where "nice" means "just a little bit less awful than usual").

The morning I was due to leave my husband, he woke up in a good mood and kissed me before he left. I felt like Judas Iscariot. Just as I was in the taxi pulling away, he called me to say that his work contract had been extended and that we should go out to celebrate, when all the time I knew he would come home to an empty house. I thought I might drown in the guilt.

So keep focusing on the scary stuff, the reasons why you need to leave him. You may well feel guilty, and that you've exaggerated everything, and somehow misrepresented the situation so that the therapist, your parents and the internet have all got the wrong impression when he's really not that bad. Don't listen to those little voices in your head that he has implanted. Listen to the churning in your gut that says that this relationship is not good for you or your DD.

Moll, sorry but I can't believe your "D"H said that....

He said "as I've very clearly outlined, there is no point going to counselling when you have systematically and deliberately failed to apologise to me for your treatment of me on Thursday [the taxi incident]. If you cannot recognise how disgracefully you have treated me then counselling will not help us."

Who the hell does he think he is? What an over-inflated ego.... Man, you need to leave as soon as...... KEEP STRONG!!!!

with regard to "How often would be reasonable for DH to see DD and how do you do this (e.g. him coming to my place)?? "

i would say no - dont invite him to your new place - have him see the dcs elsewhere, preferably neutral ground.

i made mistake of allowing (controlling abusive) ex into our new place - fora few months, it was awful, he would come to see dcs then refuse to leave, believed it was extension of his place went so far as to scream "but we live together" when we clearly did not... then smashed place up etc.

thankfully our place is clearly out of bounds to him - you and dd need a safe place you can call your own.

leave this man; and do not let him in to your new home, ever.

set the boundaries clear physical ones.

he does not have to be in your home to see dcs.

Thanks everyone, I really, really, really appreciate the support. I've spoken to my solicitor, therapist and sister today so am feeling ok, just very tired all the time. The solicitor is very helpful. She suggested I spend the next short while making the necessary practical and psychological arrangements to leave and that I then go when H is on his week holiday at the start of August. She said it was fine for me to leave while he is away, without notice to him, as long as I don't do anything to suggest I have abducted DD and or to create a situation where he doesn't know where we are. She suggested I leave a letter explaining that I have left, telling him where I am, and proposing contact arrangements for him to see DD.

My sister gave me some great perspective when I spoke to her and told me a number of reactions she had had to H's behaviour in the past that she had not wanted to raise at the time. One example was how things panned out during the first few months of DD's life when H took around 9 weeks holiday from work and we all went back to our original home country for that time. I'd forgotten this but I was constantly (in a supportive rather than nagging way) trying to get DH more involved in DD's daily care given that neither of us were working e.g. I was expressing milk so was encouraging DH to do some of the feeds (during the day, mind you) and he was always finding an excuse not to e.g. I'm just about to go for a walk! It was interesting to remember this as H said a little while ago (at the time of the gym thread) that I had stifled him as a parent and as a result he felt unable to do more for DD.

I sent my sister links to these and my other H-focused threads and she said she was amazed by the quality of the advice She may well be an MN addict in the making now....

Thanks for your advice c'estlavie. I'm glad you got things sorted with your ex.

Your solicitor sounds very sensible.

I am not surprised you are tired. Emotional rollercoasters have that effect!

moll glad things are clarified for you.

sadly things are not exactly "sorted" here - i would say be prepared for a long and bumpy ride. but one step at a time.

but yes, my new place is for me and dcs and that is it. it is wonderful.

the rest - contact issues and so on, rumble on.

but i have also just been to see my counsellor and am revived and have mantras to repeat to myself (eg I am not responsible for how he feels)

and new strategies to deal with his bullying emails etc.

one being "please refer to my previous email on the subject" if he comes back with more reasons why things should be as he says, when i have already said no.