DH 'play-fighting', but we're both half his size...

[EllieorOllie]

I was going to name-change for this but I can't be bothered to faff around...

Basically, I am becoming more and more uncomfortable about my relationship with DH. Everyone sees us as this miracle couple, because we decided to keep our baby and build our relationship after getting pregnant after a very very short time together. 3 and a half years, a wedding and another baby later, things are really getting rocky. Or at least, they are as far as i'm concerned. There are lots of little niggles, and even a few more deep-seated doubts about our compatibility. He doesn't seem to see any of it, so maybe i'm just over-analysing (wouldn't be the first time!!)

But what i have the biggest problem with, and what is making me start to think about leaving, is one particular aspect of his treatment of our DD and also me, to a certain extent. He is a rugby player and very into 'ultimate fighting' - a big, muscly guy with knowledge of martial arts holds and chokes but no self-control. He frequently plays extremely rough and puts me and DD into wrestling holds and stuff. He is even exceptionally rough when he 'tickles'. I am always covered in bruises from what he sees as playfights and DD is constantly crying when he plays with her, to the point where i think she's getting quite scared of him. He's also very mean to her, 'joking' with her to the point where, as an over-sensitive toddler, she inevitably starts to cry.

I've tried to talk to him about it but he just rubbishes what i say, or says he's really sorry and then carries on behaving the same way!

Don't get me wrong, i'm not an abused spouse or anything, and he doesn't do this stuff in anger. However, i don't think i can go on being physically hurt and dominated, and i'm very worried about the effect it's having on his relationship with DD. I'm also concerned that she'll start to mimic his behaviour.

Any thoughts, similar experiences or advice gratefully appreciated...

(excuse my language)

Oh dear, you poor thing. Please do something about this, if not for your own sake but for your children.

dp has also done yet something else this week which has sickened me more than any other things he has done , including physical attacks on me, he really upset dd3 (3) who was in the room, whilst shouting in my face, even though I begged him to stop and I am looking for a way out now. I have realised that I am a victim of abuse, emotional mostly, but it has been physical too. I can 'take' it but when any of the dc's become victims too then it's enough.

You want to stop him? I would treat him like a 3 year old.

Sit him down when he's not acting like this and tell him that play fighting of any sort is out of the question because he cannot control himself.

Tell him if he does it again then there will be consequences.

If he does it, pick up the DCs and leave the house immediately without saying anything. Go back in an hour or so. If he asks where you went say you left because of his behaviour. Do this every time anything happens.

I'd also suggest he find some activity where he can behave like this with people his own age and strength, if he has to "get it out of his system".

As for ridiculing your child. You need to do the same thing. Sit him down tell him its unacceptable. If he does it, pick up DD and say, Daddy is being unkind and take her to another room and play with her and ignore him until he apologises to her.

This wont be easy (like most tough parenting!!) but be consistent...

Please leave this bully before things get any worse. He sounds exactly like my ex, he was obsessed with wrestling and martial arts and loved 'play' fighting. I always ended up with bruises and marks, eventually this turned into real physical abuse, without the pretence of a play fight. Luckily I got out before he had the chance to hurt our DD.

ellieorollie are you about??????

amisuchabadmummy, that may work with a 3yo but I'm not sure it would work well with a fully-grown man. Patronising him is likely to antagonise him further and he's already shown through his actions that, deep down, he doesn't care what the OP thinks.

This is a man who has such a messed-up view of relationships that he feels it's acceptable to scare his child and leave bruises on his partner. He needs adult therapy, not being treated like a naughty child.

He might be so incredibly immature and dense that he really isn't doing all this awful and unacceptable shit for a sinister ulterior motive - he really might just think it's fun and that you and DD are being awkward and prissy, and that if he's having fun it's all that matters because he's not 'really' hurting you, etc., BUT the result is the same: he is bullying and abusing you both. If your DD has to grow up expecting this from her father, what sort of man do you think she will unconsciously be attracted to when she's grown-up? And if you have a son, what if he mimics his father's behaviour and becomes a bully and an abuser? DH's obsession with violent video games sounds v dubious - psychologists agree that these games really do have a bad effect on suggestible and immature adults as well as they do on kids - so all his playing can't be helping his view that violence is fun.

I think your belief that DD might copy him could come true. And then she'll be seen as a problem child, disliked by teachers, ostracised and hated by others kids and having a terrible time at school... then coming home to a Daddy who hurts and scares her and a Mummy who doesn't stop it. How confusing and traumatic that would be for her - and how unfair. And if she DOES start acting out like this at school, the school will no doubt investigate into her behaviour. How are you going to explain your DH's behaviour to them in anyway that WON'T make them think he is an abuser and you are allowing it? I know how exasperating it must be for you to keep telling him not to do it and why not and he just ignores you, but every effort that fails IS allowing it. You need to get him into counselling ASAP and issue an ultimatum - the next time he does this, you are gone for good. Don't kid yourself that it's not abuse because he's not angry when he does it or that he doesn't believe it's not harmful. You need to get out of this situation. Do it for the kids, if you can't for yourself.

Good luck.

"I think the reason i don't see it as 'abuse' is because he's like a massive overgrown child. He's immature in quite a lot of ways, but this is by far its worst manifestation. The rest is just about liveable with."

first, he is supposed to be an adult in this relationship. you have two children, he should not be one of them...

what about the rest?
write it down - for yourself...

what do you put up with? day to day? occasionally?

abusive behaviour - other than the obvious one you posted - creeps up on you insidiously, you get used to it, you live with it...

you put up because there are times he acts nice, is a "good father" etc. you've got the house,, the husband, the beautiful children - it is the dream...

you say jokingly, "it is like having another child in the house!" - i know i did - and it takes someone else to point out that a husband and father to your children should NOT be "another child" for you to look after and monitor his behaviour...

this "play"fighting has to stop - make it clear - but also think about the rest that you "live with"....

time to make a stand. it could change the status quo but you have to do it for the dcs sake.

RubberDuck - my situation was the same as yours.

although it was horrid being hit a lot as a child, it was even harder to come to terms with the fact that my Mum let it happen, and pretended 'it wasn't that bad' (even when i had bleeding nose FFS).

so he hurts you but it's ok because he says it's a game. sounds like one hell of a good cover to me.

means that he can get away with everything short of murder - it's a game! don't you have a sense of humour? jeez - lighten up.

not a nice picture.

It must be so confusing for your poor DD. Games hurt you. Playing hurts you. It really doesn't bode well for her future peer relationships, does it? As someone else said, she won't be liked at school, because she'll be the girl who expects playing to be painful and she won't understand why the other kids don't like her inflicting pain- she'll have learned that that's part and parcel of playing, of spending time with people you love. Poor little thing. There's one like that in my DD's class.

Hi OP, I'm quite worried for you and your LO. Rough playfighting is a sign of abuse. My abusive P used to "pretend" to bite me, and "playfight" with me by pinning my arms. How does he speak to you generally? Is he controlling, or do you feel like you're walking on eggshells around him? He shouldn't be doing his moves on his family, that's for sure. It would be pathetic if it wasn't so dangerous. Does he actually fight in a ring? I'm an ex thai boxer and we were only allowed to use our skills in a defense situation.

'Play-fighting' seems like an odd thing for two adults to be doing in the first place. I used to have tickle fights with my ex, but only after we stopped having sex. You say that his attitude towards it is immature, and that the rest of the time you can 'just about' live with him. Why are you selling yourself short? Are you still with him because you think you should be? Or because you genuinely love him?

On your way out, smash the tv and game system. His reptilian brain can not distinguish reality from multi-media visual stimulus.

Wow. What a lot of posts. Thank you for all your input.
I'm sorry i wasn't around this morning etc, was caught up in the mum round of pre-school drop-offs, shopping, docs appointments etc.
I don't really know where to start in terms of answering questions and comments, but i'll give it a go...
Firstly, the steroids things - absolutely not. And that is not from some misplaced sense of faith in him, he is absolutely disgusted by drugs and he would never use steroids or anything else. Don't think he's even smoked a cigarette, and he doesn't really drink either.
Solid - the first part of your post definitely struck a chord with me. It really disturbs me that he knows that he is hurting me and DD and yet still carries on. It does make me feel like he thinks he has a right to do it.
Bloss - your post really interested me, i guess that was the sort of thing i wanted to find out about when i posted originally. Believe it or not, in a former life i practised jiu jitsu for a very short while (not long enough to remember the moves sadly) and i do remember people like that. H definitely uses his physical size to overpower me and DD. Hard to admit, but he definitely can't 'win' intellectually and i think it's the one thing that makes him feel in charge. I realise this kind of contradicts what i said about it all being a joke, but i don't think he would rationalise it like this, so to him it still is 'just a joke'.
Rubberduck - was very sad to read your story and the effects that it had. I know i need to protect my DCs and stop his beahviour from having an enduring effect on them.
Mrsmortenharket - i do feel a lot of what you described in your post. i would say there are other indicators that he doesn't really love me as such, he just finds it easier to be with me than without me. which makes me very sad. and my DD is getting less and less outgoing all the time. she is becoming shy in large groups and is totally at sea when she is out of her normal comfort zone. i know this could just be an unrelated toddler phase but somehow i just feel like we are fucking her up.
Warthog and Reality - there is definitely something in what you say about the 'oh it was a just a joke' thing. i often get accused of having no sense of humour and being no fun etc if i complain. also he tells me that i bruise really easily and that's why there are marks, to the point where i was becoming paranoid that i had a blood disorder or something. Ridiculous I know...

Anyway, onto what i have decided to do.

I have decided to give him an ultimatum tonight. Basically i am going to tell him that he has a week to change his ways or i will expect him to move out the house or back in with his parents, essentially a trial separation. I spoke to them this afternoon and they are competely on board (as i said, they have often voiced their concerns about how rough he is with DD).
Each time he behaves in a way i consider inappropriate i will pull him up on it and tell him to stop. If he deosn't then he will be out straight away. If he stops each time i tell him to and starts to do it less then i will rethink at the end of the week.

I'm still not completely convinced that he's an intentional abuser. I do accept that it is abuse, but i feel that i need to give him the opportunity to change his behaviour. Perhaps in the past i have not been decisive enough in the way i deal with him. 'I'm not happy', 'you hurt me', 'i think our relationship might not have a future' is not the same as 'one week to change or you're gone'.

Good luck EllieorOllie, I hope this is the wake up call he needs.

EO good luck with it.

To be fair, I don't think many abusers are "intentional abusers" as such. They don't intend to abuse and they don't believe they are abusers. Or when they recognise they are, they feel terrible about it - temporarily, before they allow themselves to abuse again, unless they are really determined to change and go and undertake some kind of counselling to get to the bottom of why they behave like this and stop themselves.

Ellie - what would happen if your DD was injured to the extent she needed hospital treatment eg if your DH dislocated her arm? It's clear that you are very worried and want to protect your child. If social services get involved you could both be branded a risk to her - him for injuring her and you for allowing it to happen, particularly if it comes out that this has been going on for a while.

I was thinking about asking him to get counselling as well

I just want to say WELL DONE for making a stand and getting your inlaws on board. This can't have been easy as he is your husband but I have to admit to feeling scared reading your posts about what he is doing.

My DH hurt our DD by accident and that was traumatic enough so for him to be purposely doing things to you both - even without intentional hurt - is awful. He must see the bruises and know he has hurt you.

I would log and photo everything and stick to your guns.

You are a strong woman.