DH 'play-fighting', but we're both half his size...

[EllieorOllie]

I was going to name-change for this but I can't be bothered to faff around...

Basically, I am becoming more and more uncomfortable about my relationship with DH. Everyone sees us as this miracle couple, because we decided to keep our baby and build our relationship after getting pregnant after a very very short time together. 3 and a half years, a wedding and another baby later, things are really getting rocky. Or at least, they are as far as i'm concerned. There are lots of little niggles, and even a few more deep-seated doubts about our compatibility. He doesn't seem to see any of it, so maybe i'm just over-analysing (wouldn't be the first time!!)

But what i have the biggest problem with, and what is making me start to think about leaving, is one particular aspect of his treatment of our DD and also me, to a certain extent. He is a rugby player and very into 'ultimate fighting' - a big, muscly guy with knowledge of martial arts holds and chokes but no self-control. He frequently plays extremely rough and puts me and DD into wrestling holds and stuff. He is even exceptionally rough when he 'tickles'. I am always covered in bruises from what he sees as playfights and DD is constantly crying when he plays with her, to the point where i think she's getting quite scared of him. He's also very mean to her, 'joking' with her to the point where, as an over-sensitive toddler, she inevitably starts to cry.

I've tried to talk to him about it but he just rubbishes what i say, or says he's really sorry and then carries on behaving the same way!

Don't get me wrong, i'm not an abused spouse or anything, and he doesn't do this stuff in anger. However, i don't think i can go on being physically hurt and dominated, and i'm very worried about the effect it's having on his relationship with DD. I'm also concerned that she'll start to mimic his behaviour.

Any thoughts, similar experiences or advice gratefully appreciated...

Right really am going to bed now...

Thank ellie you've made me feel a bit better bed for me too. take care.

Oh Ellie, your last post was so sad. You'd never say that to a friend you cared about, you'd never make excuses for her partner hurting her.

I'm stressed at the moment, my DH is under a lot of pressure, we have three kids, busy jobs and a family member slowly dying from cancer - it's bit pressure cookerish on some days round here, but neither of us are hurting anyone and if we were, that stress would not be an excuse.

If he'd started doing this on day one, before you were accustomed to living a life with him, you would have walked out in horror.

Imagine one of your student's parent's talking about the bruises on their child and how they weren't put there in anger but they hope you don't notice them. How many red flags would be flying for you?

Don't take this for another day. He knows it's not ok, you've told him that and it shouldn't require anything else. He doesn't care that it's not ok.

The anger issue is a misdirection. It wouldn't be more abusive because he's angry, so it's not less abusive because he isn't. In fact, in some ways, it's scarier.

Don't live with this, you don't have to. Tell his parents now, tell yours if they're around. Let people in on the 'secret'. I wouldn't even give him one more chance, I can't see any circumstances under which DH would need chances or assistance to understand he needed to stop hurting us. You might want to give him one more chance, but please, please, no more than that.

carpe is wise.

The fact he hurts you NOT IN ANGER does not make it okayish in the slightest.

It is even more sinister.

Agree with everyone else.

Something else occurred to me : do you think it is at all possible that he is taking drugs ?

Good luck

Look darling you need to tell your GP this is happening and you need to phone the police next time he bruises your DD because when you divorce him, he may take revenge on you by hurting your DD during contact. You need to get it officially logged that he is violent towards your DD so that he doesn't get sole contact when she and your DS are too young to defend themselves.

Bloody hell, the power of denial eh. You are an abused spouse, and your DD is an abused daughter. You can end this, but you need to be very very careful, he sounds dangerous. You should phone Women's Aid helpline to get some advice from experts who know the best way to proceed.

Steroids?

TBH - I wouldn't even try talking to him again - you have tried several times already, I would be afraid of tipping him over the edge.

I would be gone - now.

There was a thread exactly like this a while back. H was a martial arts expert.

There is no doubt that this is abuse. He might not be angrily punching you, but he is physically harming you and your DD, despite knowing the damage he is causing. The fact that his own parents have spoken to him about his treatment of you speaks volumes. They are obviously, quite rightly, concerned for you and your DD. I hope you can find the strength to put a stop to this now.

EllieorOllie

You can talk to him till you're blue in the face but he still will not take any notice.

You also mention issues of compatibility as well. Denial is a powerful force (and yes you are an abused spouse) and you seem disbelieving that all this is happening but it is and you and your DD are being harmed by this man. He will also start this on your son next.

You need to act to get yourself and your children away from this man. That is the only way it will stop. Not by talking to him (you've tried that and you've got nowhere in the process). The fact as well that the ILs are aware of this also says an awful lot.

Do not downplay this or make excuses for him by citing stress as there are none. This is abuse and this is also about power and control. He relishes both over you and is bullying you into submission. Also he can control his behaviour can't he; he's not doing this to his employer or anyone else outside his family.

I would be talking to Womens Aid as well. You and your children are in danger from this man.

please take steps to protect your daughter, even if you are in too much denial to protect yourself

Ellieorollie, your H is doing this to you and your DD because he wants to. He is perfectly aware that it hurts and frightens both of you, but he thinks that you are his possessions and he can do what he likes with you.
Nothing is going to stop him, nothing you say, nothing your parents say, nothing the GP says - nothing apart from having him removed from the house and locked up. Which can be done: violent men are not allowed to go on beating their families indefinitely.

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bloss Out of interest - would you give any credence to my steroid idea ?

I'm really worried for you and your DD. If he keeps dismissing your concerns then you need to tell him to leave or leave yourself even if it is just so that he realises you're serious.

Another concern is that you have a DS and in most cases men like your DH think it is important to toughen up their son. When he gets a wee bit bigger he may be subjected to this but to a higher degree than your DD. What will that teach him? Violence is acceptable? Its fun to hurt people if it is disguised as play?

It comes down to this where my DS is concerned I would not play with him in a way that makes him cry and keep repeating that pattern. Once may be seen as a wee bit OTT but multiple times is abuse!

I have to say it's the playful play-acting context that worries me most

because that is his way of legitimising what is in fact abuse

means he can never be called up on it, because if you and your dd can't even take a joke, then clearly there's something wrong with your sense of humour

to me, this is sinister; he is doing it for pleasure

BTW you say he's never hit you in anger: no, not yet he hasn't, because he's still at the grooming stage, of preparing you to accept further violence from him a few years down the line. At the moment he has to disguise it as a joke, sometimes one that goes a bit too far. When he's got you to fully accept that, that's when he'll start to move on to doing it without the jokes.

My dad used to play fight with me as a kid. I would always end up getting hurt. As I got older, he would lose control of his temper and lash out. My mother always told me it was my fault as I was stubborn and would make it worse.

Oddly enough, we didn't have the greatest relationship.

He never hit my mum. She had always told him that she would walk out if he ever touched her. For some reason that I never worked out, she didn't extend that to me.

Hmm. This post was a lot harder to write than I anticipated.

I wonder what Ellie has decided. Been thinking about her. My dh is an enormous man. But a total gentle giant. Hope she is o.k.

sweetheart, you really need to take a long (and yes it will be painful)hard look at the whole situation, not compartments of it.

i was in your situation before dd, the only way that he would stop hitting me was when i finally stood up to physical abuse (that's what it is) was when i started hitting him back. i used to go kickboxing and i would never ever use it outside the gym. this time it was for self defence, i'm not proud of myself for hitting someone else but i did and it stopped. so i stayed with him. worse mistake ever. he cheated on me several times with his xw (he was getting divorced from her so everyone said it was ok and implied i was the other woman!), the way he spoke to me was not respectful, tho he said he loved me it didn't feel like it - if you love someone you don't use them as a punchbag and treat them like a pile of rubbish. even when my brother came to visit, he never changed the way he spoke to me, just a 'nicer' tone of voice - he was always on the computer, never seemed to want to spend time with me, even when we were engaged he never looked at wedding plans and it just stopped - a relationship in name only.

it takes a long time to admit to yourself the kind of situation you are in and how bad it really is (i know how you are feeling cos i've been in that horrible place) - what helped me (if you can put it like that) was when it started affecting dd to the extent that, though she was a previously happy child, she started biting her nails, having more nightmares and not letting me out of her sight - even looking at me as if to say 'why are you still with him mom?'

i begged him and begged him to listen. he never did - even if it was just a little, things would change for a couple of months or so then they would be back to 'normal'.

my point is sweetheart, things aren't going to change to how you want them to - you have told him and told him, your dd is scared of him, is this what you want your dd to go through at her age? let alone any age, to be scared of her father? i know it isn't (((((((((()))))))))))

please please please start getting an escape pack together and leave ti somewhere you know it will be safe, talk to women's aid, report incidences to the police (their domestic violence unit should be a great help to you). domestic violence is what it is sweetheart, it will take a long time to accept that terminology - but you need to accept that phrase and start detatching you and your family from this odious man

one more thing - the mental and emotional abuse got to the point where i felt like half a person, definitely half the person i was. my life seems to have followed a pattern of abusive men, including my dad, i did not want that life for my dd where she was scared of her dad until the day she could turn round and say 'i'm not scared of you anymore dad'.

x never listened to me, he was jealous, possessive, controlling, ....

i don't want you to have to go through this year in year out. i'm not going to tell you to leave as that is your decision and yours alone. i saw how much things were hurting dd and that gave me the strength to leave.

it was the best decision i ever made
yes, it was extremely painful and it has took me nearly 2 years to feel anywhere near normal again and yes we have had hassle from x and had to move to secret address but it was completely worth it.

the first step is always the hardest ((((((((((((()))))))))))))

Rubberduck, that is all too common a story. I'm sorry that was the way your relationship with him was and also that your mother never intervened and even blamed you. I can understand why that was hard to write.

One of the most important roles of a parent is to protect their children from people who could hurt them whether that is within or outwith the home. Especially within the home is where a child should not be scared to be. The home is the one place every human being has the right to feel safe.

my dad was just like this, i left home at 16 have nothng to do with any of my family it will get worse the emotional abuse and the phisical i had a belt took to me at 15 as i was dianosed with dyslexia and i have never forgiven my dad or my mum for letting it happen, please phone your local abuse center

Jenice: you know, one of the oddest things it's hard to write is that it wasn't that bad. You see news stories all the time of abused women and children and I just think... well, I got clouted round the head occasionally because I knew how to wind him up and answered back a lot. Not worth phoning Childline for.

Then I read posts like this and my head is saying "get out get out" - it's like a disconnect somehow.

I dunno. Meh. I oscillate between 'well, it was considered reasonable chastisement at the time' and 'fucking hell, why didn't mum put her foot down when she wouldn't have tolerated it for herself, fgs'.

I can totally see the OP's dilemma and why it can be so hard to get out when it starts small.