SUPPORT THREAD FOR PARTNERS OF ADDICTS - PART 2

[ginnny]

I thought I'd start us a new thread since the old one was going strong for over a year and I know a lot of people find it helpful.
DP did go on a bender Monday and Tuesday, which although I wasn't happy about, I understood why. He is lost and can't cope with the grief of losing his Mum.
Since then though he's been great, so once the funeral is over I'm hoping we can put it behind us and get back to normal.
I've suggested bereavement counselling, but he's not convinced.

Thanks Ludog - I noticed there were many more people at the meeting with partners who had stopped drinking than whose who were still drinking.

Unfortunately DH has just announced he's going out tomorrow which makes it harder for me to go to the next meeting.

INALL - Good luck with your search for a meeting near you.

BG - You can always talk to someone at the Al Anon General Service Office if you can't make a meeting.

There's also an online meeting facility. Google stepchat and follow the links, you need to set up a username and password. There is a chat room always open and there is usually someone about to chat with.

ludog - I just registered on that website.
It looks fantastic.
Thank you thank you thank you!!!!

Attila means well and talks a lot of sense but- as in my case - there is one thing that holds us to these men - and that is love. Yes, the drinking could kill that love in the end, but if he shows an awareness that there is a problem, then don't give up on him just yet - try to steer him toward seeking help when he is sober and therefore more receptive. That is what I am trying to do with mine - again a man who is a good, kind, lovely man, with a damaged soul who self-medicates with wine and is so, so afraid of what therapy will make him face. My dp is not able to do it yet, but he is aware of what harm he is doing to himself, and to me. He is making small gestures that show that awareness and that he values what I give him. These men cannot just be abandoned - that would be simple, and easy, but I believe this is a harsh thing to do to men who are not being deliberately harmful, and should be the last resort (unless there is actual mental or physical abuse, in which case I would say GET OUT). Mine is being much better since I confronted him. He still drinks, but that is his choice, and he is not abusing me or my DD now, since I confronted him and said if he is unhappy, he can go.

What you must do, is seek support outside the relationship, to give you a perspective on it and support - but as long as you feel love for him, hang on. After all, if WE were the people with a drink problem and all the issues that underlie it, would we want our partners to abandon us?

Once again Tannee I think our DPs were separated at birth.
You have just described mine perfectly!
(its not the same man is it )

Girls, can I recommend a book for you? It's called "Co-dependent No More" by Melodie Beattie. It makes very enlightening reading on how us spouses of addicts become sick ourselves over time. I found it very helpful when I was in the depths of despair.
Tanee...my dh was very like yours. I am so glad I stuck with it as the real dh is back to us now. In fact he is a new, improved version, as he was already a good bit down the road of alcoholism when I met him. That says a lot about the state of my self-esteem that I recognised the problem and didn't run for the hills! In the last year, he seems to have matured so much. We are married 17 years and he is 44 btw.

I'm not going to be able to go to al-anon meetings - they are all in the early evenings when I work. Had hoped to find a daytime one but no luck. I will try the stepchat website though - thanks.

Ludog - your happy ending is a massive inspiration. How long has your DH been sober?

Just over a year now. He did make it to a year before and had a massive relapse, so I don't take anything for granted. I know he could drink tomorrow, but today he is sober. He is very regular at AA now which is the big difference and he is a lot happier in himself. Honestly, if he could get sober, anyone can and that's the truth!

Ludog that is a VERY encouraging story. I do hope he continues dry . What saddens me is that the tendency on MN and other sites so often seems to be, to advise the partners of addicts to leave rather than learn to live with them and continue to love them. We may hate the addiction, but unless the person is destroying our own self-worth mentally or physically, I believe we should try to work with it. Often their addiction is not the end of the story - there is often an underlying problem that merely stopping drinking/drugs/whatever does not address, and unless that is treated, the addiction may well return. Mine suffers from depression - though even when happy, he still likes to drink. I have a certain conflict about this, as I too enjoy a drink most evenings, but I will stop at one or two glasses, whilst he goes on to a second bottle. Ideally, I would just like him to share a bottle with me and leave it at that, but that would be normal and we are not dealing with 'normal' here. It's the fact that his drinking 'removes' him from me, that I hate. I feel that if he sought help for the depression and the drinking, he might find his way forward - but treating one without treating the other won't work. At present, he treats neither, so I am working on keeping myself and my DD busy and happy. I think it's called 'detachment with love' in alanon-speak.

Ginnny, oh yes, have we compared photos of our DPs yet?

Tanee

Only you could make that decision as to whether to leave or stay. I would argue that you are treading a fine line here and I don't actually think you're helping him by your actions let alone your own self here. Where are the consequences for his actions?.
Where's his will to help his own self?.

On a wider level too what are you both teaching your daughter here about relationships?. You both seem trapped in a cycle of dependency.

Alcohol is itself a depressant. If your home became an alcohol free one what would happen then?. You certainly cannot be drinking with him in the evenings - this is enabling behaviour.

I would be interested to hear what any of you make of the following from Promis (addiction treatment centre).

"The first and foremost responsibility of someone living with an alcoholic must be to protect any children who may be in the household or otherwise possibly affected. Do not trust an alcoholic to have care of children, particularly not if the alcoholic is likely to drive a car. However, although children must be one?s first responsibility, one should not neglect oneself. Why should one?s own life be destroyed by the alcoholic or dedicated primarily to supporting and protecting him or her? There are better lives to be led than that. In fact, anything that is done to help the alcoholic can simply be "enabling" him or her to continue his or her path towards destruction. Other families have learnt this to their cost and some fortunate families have learnt (primarily through A1 Anon, the sister Fellowship to Alcoholics Anonymous or through Helpers Anonymous) how to detach themselves from the illness while still loving and respecting the suffering individual. They also learn to look after themselves and their families by not protecting the alcoholic from the consequences of his or her behaviour. Letting someone you love get the painful consequences of his or her actions may seem cruel but it is in fact kind because it is more likely to bring the condition to a satisfactory end (though Alcoholics Anonymous) before everything is lost".

Tanee, only you can make the decision to leave or not. I know that I had reached a stage where I was no longer willing to live with active alcoholism and I started to take steps to get out of the situation. I think the realisation of all he was going to lose was dh's rock bottom. I think he also sensed in me that I was taking those steps (starting separation proceedings) because I had reached my own rock bottom and not because I was trying to scare him into stopping. I know that he could relapse, but I see him protecting himself by attending his AA meetings and keeping away from people, places and things associated with his drinking. If he were to relapse now, I would be able to have compassion for him and help him back to sobriety. BUT if he was to go back to the way he was I couldn't stay, for my own sanity and for the sake of our children. It's much harder to get a divorce here (Ireland) as you have to be separated 4 years first and I think that fact alone may have kept me plugging away for longer than I might have if I could have got out sooner. Having said that. I am glad it did keep me here and that we are still together. These are decisions only you can make. I personally don't know if drinking with him is a good idea. He is never going to be able to stop at one or two no matter how much you wish he would. That's the big difference between social drinkers and alcoholics really. It took me a long time to accept that about dh...I just couldn't understand how he couldn't see the logic of what I was saying. He tells me now that alcoholics have a logic of their own which bears little resemblance to reality.

Tanee, I have rarely posted in this thread so forgive me for 'butting in' but I just thought I'd add my tuppence fwiw...

My DH has smoked cannabis for almost 20 years but was off it when we got together/got married, knowing my feelings about it (I divorced my xh for lots of things including the effects of being a drug addict). 7 years down the line, he kept promising to give up and strung me along for a long time, being a typical addict. Well, to cut a long story short, I made him leave early May to go and sort himself out. He ended up staying at my parents and has been clean for nearly 3 months, I let him come home after the first month... He attended a drug dependency clinic but has now been discharged so now he only has his community mental health clinic to attend and I'm hoping he will continue to address his issues with depression and anxiety (as well as a whole host of issues!). Thing is, the green was making all his illnesses even worse but he couldn't see it. Three months without the green and he is still suffering with depression and still has issues to address. I was his enabler up to a few months ago but have learnt that there has to be absolutes in order to continue living with an addict and if that means going without, then so be it. He struggles immensely with lack of sleep and has a few times begged me for permission to have a joint, just to help him sleep and a few months ago, I might have let him - partly for a peaceful life; partly to help him sleep. But now I have to keep absolute and just keep saying NO as he has to address the issues that lead to his addictions and his consequent lifestyle changes. Him giving up the green has been a massive life changging event for the whole family but thats not the end of the story. Yes, I am prepared to be here and support him as his wife through all of it, but on the condition that he does not, ever, smoke green, without exception. I used to think that was a lot to ask but I now know that its not so much to ask and that I deserve to set the rules for me and my kids...

Oh my goodness I've ranted here!!! Sorry

Having said all that, ironically he has started taking prescription drugs (painkillers) and so we've had to address this with the gp and the community mental health clinic (waiting for an appointment), as he seems to be addicted to addiction if that makes sense. It's his problem to deal with now though - I've learnt that I can't fix him, he has to take responsibility for himself now and I love and respect him even more so for doing it...

That's my tuppence anyway, not sure if its even relevant or if it will help in any way. I'll go off now lol! Take care all xxx

Tanee, my DH has also been clean since early March and I can agree to the letter with everything ludog wrote yesterday. Those that know our story here can tell you I spent since Xmas trying to get him to leave the house as I had certainly reached my own rock bottom and realised that I could not help at all if he was not prepared to help himself. Having had proper treatment and joined AA, our lives have totally changed. It still requires all that love, affection and commitment you have to your DH now, but instead of it being somehow ?wasted?, it makes a difference, day after day. I cannot stress it enough, if he has an honest desire to stop drinking, the AA will help. After 10 years of hell, hospitalisations, NHS treatment centres, cold turkey, attempted moderation and all sorts of snake oils, it is the only thing that works. You don?t need to leave him, but you if you want to help his recovery you need to do what you can ? Al Anon will help you there, but don?t expect to be told what to do, you?ll have to work it out yourself ? please try to join a meeting. A good starting point in the meantime is not drinking yourself; it?ll keep you thinking clearly, if nothing else.

Princess ? you are right to be weary of his addiction being transferred to a different substance, it does happen, so well done for keeping this in check.

I hope all is OK with everyone.

Tanee - just to say that all addicts have 'something going on behind the scene' - mostly it buried in the past somewhere. And they are usually all hypersensitive as children...they are unable to deal with lifes ups and downs 'as normal' hence the need to use a crutch to help them deal with 'life in general' - be it with drugs, alcohol or gambling.

Hello!!!

I'm using my friends internet, I have so missed this thread. we are doing ok, beginning to sort my head out (Ithink). I've been experiancing a lot of flashbacks, some really bad and lasting for ages, some brief. don't quite know what's worse, the good memories or the bad ones.

Anyway, within 2 weeks of arriving at the refuge ds was settled into a new school, and dd1 into a nursery. It's ok there, clean, not cramped, we have our own bedroom, and it's nice to talk to others, one realises tey all work from the same manual.

I went to court for the occ order, at the last minute he signed an undertaking to be out on or before the 1st sept. don't know what state the house will be in, I had a friend go in for some stuff while he was at court, beer tins everywhere, porn everywhere, he's been smoking inside...

Still, I can't wait to get my life back.

Hope everyone else is ok, wishing you all peace and quiet xx

Ready, how wonderful to hear from you and to know you and the DC are well and settled! You've made my week girl . Roll on September 1st.

Great to hear from you Ready! You are amazingly strong, you really are.
The worst is over now - you are nearly free!
Thanks for updating us - keep in touch.

Well done Ready! Will be rooting for you.

Tanee - just going back to something you said earlier about MNs advocating that its best to leave the addict -

I'd like to think that even though I eventually left my H, I did give it everything I had; I spent a year of Al Anon in the hope that my reactions to his drinking would change which would then change his behaviour. I would say that the help I got from Al Anon enabled me to make an informed decision - not just a wild reactonary one that was not an informed sensible one.

However, once his behaviour really spirolled out of control and he started behaving very badly in front of our DD, that was the barrier that he crossed and I had to get us out of it. Luckily his behaviour did not go as far as actually hitting her - which I know has happened to other posters. But it was only a matter of time before it did - ironically, me having learned not to react to him meant that he was doing more and more to get me to react.

We as adults have choices, our DC don't. That is the reason why I had to do what I did - I just felt that it's important to say that.

hey all,it's amazing the ways one can find to mn

Tonight,I'm ranting, the new resident here has ordered a takeaway - GIVING THE ADDY OF THE REFUGE FOR DEL. FFS

Anyway,thank you for thinking of us,I'm slowly getting my head tog. I had to take the DC to my home town1hrs drive away on sat for contact, and the sod met me atthe carpark then followed me to the shoeshop, asI had arrived early to get DD1 new shoes. He is still obsessed with the idea of me having sex. preferably with him, and preferablynot with anybody else. as if I really want that at all after all the drunken gropings.

I have to agree with SS,I spent thelast year trying my hardest to make my marriadge work. His behaviour was similar to a toddlers,he just kept trying harder to get me to react. Even now he is layingon the emotional blackmail, but every attempt of his is just affirmingin my mind it is allover. He just ticks all the boxes of a classic abuser.

Anyway, missing your support, but I shall keep in touch, I've Changed my holiday so I go in 10 days to the sea side without him,bliss,and roll on sept!!!

Best wishes to all hope everyone is ok xx

Aw Ready - chuffed to bits to hear how much more empowered you're sounding now. Your DC's will be so much happier away from all that mad behaviour.

What you said about your STBEH's behaviour made me smile - my EH always makes a big show when I drop DD off @ his parents for the w/end; he scrubs up 'cos he's trying to make me see what I'm missing but when I collect DD he's back to the 'usual'....unshaven, unwashed .

I do feel sorry for his parents but it is no longer any of my business.

We do 'get on nicely' though - I have to ensure that for DD's sake 'cos at the end of the day, he is still her daddy.

Bumpety bump!

Big Bump!

I've been away without internet access....

How is everyone? My DD & I are both very well.

This week has been sad, though.

My ex BIL died from a massive heart attack last Monday, he was only 40. Needless to say this will either make or break my ExH - (I saw him today as DD staying for a couple of days)....he looked truly truly awful, so I guess it'll be the latter. Thank God his parents are there or I'd've had serious doubts about leaving DD with him. He was still overjoyed at seeing DD & vice versa - he may be sick but he's still her daddy .

I am so glad to be out of all that madness - if I was still married, it would've fallen to me to sort it all out. And 'people pleasing me' would've done it as well!

My SIL (my brother's wife) has now told the rest of my family that she has 3 years tops (recurrent breast cancer/secondaries). I knew back in Nov that it would be very bad news but kept my counsel - it was not my business to say anything. So I have prepared myself and will make the most of what time we have left.

On a brighter note, we have also had 3 days of sun so that makes it all feel a bit better .

hi all,just want to introduce myself. im maried to a compulsive gambler, he is in GA since november, having been in denial for years, and having gambled with our future and left us in big debt. he unfortunately has taken to drink now, he has been drinking enough for it to matter. he says he'll try to give it up- i dont know.
We have a toddler and a baby.

anyway just to introduce myself- ill read the thread tomorrow and get to know everyone!

hope its ok to joinxx

Hi Moanyhole! Funny how they sometimes jump from one addiction to another isn't it. I suppose if they have an addictive personality they need something to replace it with.
SS so sorry to hear your bad news. Ex H will no doubt use the bad news as an excuse to drink more but as you say you are out of that now.
Hope everyone else is doing OK.
Things here are kicking along nicely. DP is not working much atm but managing to find things to do to keep him out of the pub and is actually being really helpful with childcare and housework while I'm at work
Ready - hope you are OK. Not long now till you get your house back is it?