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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

SUPPORT THREAD FOR PARTNERS OF ADDICTS - PART 2

985 replies

ginnny · 08/05/2009 11:36

I thought I'd start us a new thread since the old one was going strong for over a year and I know a lot of people find it helpful.
DP did go on a bender Monday and Tuesday, which although I wasn't happy about, I understood why. He is lost and can't cope with the grief of losing his Mum.
Since then though he's been great, so once the funeral is over I'm hoping we can put it behind us and get back to normal.
I've suggested bereavement counselling, but he's not convinced.

OP posts:
LalaDipsey · 21/09/2011 13:34

Hi All

Calyx - hope today goes well and he moves out with little fuss to let you begin your life without a drunk in the house
Angel - wow that's just fab - I really hope your dh makes it and starts his new life with you and dc
Ready/SS - your advice is, as ever spot on!
AFM - fluctuating but dh not being really nasty so all copeable with. He is away with work for 3 nights this wk and 3 nights next week, and whilst I do miss his practical help with bathtime it does mean I don't have his alcoholic snores and sickly sweet wine sweat and breath in bed hehehe!! Have only had one bad day recently when he was V hungover last Sunday and no help at all - just lying on the sofa ALL DAY until stirring himself to pour a glass of wine at about 6 - grrrr - and I was having a v tired day BUT at least he's not being nasty!!
So, I am thankful for the small mercies atm and thinking of you all loads.
Off to revise again whilst dd naps
Huggles Lala

AngelDelightIsIndeedDelightful · 22/09/2011 08:42

Lala - glad he's not being nasty. Wish you didn't have to be grateful for that though, it's the least anyone should be able to count on!

Calyx - what news? Hope he's gone.....

I'm bimbling along ok. Still very upset and sad but will get there in the end.

cosmicspaceman · 22/09/2011 12:03

Hi all, have been lurking for a while but finally worked up the courage to post... so sorry it's such a long one..

My DP has been a 'heavy drinker' for many years. He used to drink 3-5 beers every night and then more at weekends but then a couple of years ago I started finding empty bottles of vodka hidden around the house. He has promised many times to stop drinking but of course never does. He has never ever been either verbally or physically abusive but is very withdrawn and only starts to interact with me and the children if he has been drinking or knows that he is about to have a drink. He very rarely gets up before midday at the weekends (this is an improvement, it used to be 2-4pm) and never does anything with the children that involves leaving the house, although he will play with the youngest at home. Up until now although I have made threats I have never carried them through because I have always felt guilty that as a SAHM I do not contribute to the bills or mortgage. However we bought this house with money from the sale of my old flat. I paid the deposit, the stamp duty, the legal fees, bought the furniture etc etc. He had no money even though he was living at home and had a well paid job (I know, it should have been a big red flag to me!).

Back in March a letter was hand delivered from the bailiffs to say that they had come to take goods in lieu of payment of his tax bill. I had this out with him and it turns out that he hadn't been paying his tax bill. I agreed that he could remortgage the house to pay them off but in order to do this he had to get his tax up to date. He has only just done this now and now owes £35k and wants to put this on the mortgage. However there will also be another 18 months of tax owing after that.

He has always been really well respected in his job and one of the things I really admired about him was that he got up at 5.30am and went to work every day. However this summer things started to go pear shape. He had lots of time of sick, some of which was genuine, but still very unlike him. Then my dad became critically ill and I was up the hospital all day. The first couple of days DP took off to look after the children and then I had arranged childcare for the rest of the week. However DP didn't go back to work and then when he did start going back I found out that actually he hadn't been turning up and that no-one had been able to contact him. In the last few weeks he has also stayed away for work and then not been on site first thing and also arrived home from work at 1.30am saying "i was so tired I fell asleep in the van", but of course he stank of alcohol.

We need to make a decision on the mortgage soon. He has promised to stop drinking and says it's different this time because he has finally realised he is about to lose everything. I really don't want to remortgage but if we don't then I think that the inland revenue could make us sell. I am so exhausted dealing with all of this I don't know what to do any more.

AttilaTheMeerkat · 22/09/2011 12:40

cosmic

What are you getting out of this relationship now and what are you teaching your children about relationships here?. Both of you are imparting damaging lessons to them. What keeps you within all this dysfunction?.

You need real life support and AL-anon would also be a good plance for you to start

My counsel (which you may not like one bit) is to leave him now and let him go. Do not add the amount of the unpaid tax bill to the mortgage. You need proper financial advice urgently; not robbing Peter to pay Paul and postponing future financial woes. There is also still more owing.

You are not responsible for this man although you probably feel a great deal of responsibility towards him. You really do not need to live with the chaos any more.

If he wants to really give up drinking for good this time then he needs to do so without you all in the picture. What help has he himself sought of his own volition?. Words are cheap, its actions that count here. There are also no guarantees re alcoholism; he could go onto lose everything and still drink afterwards.

You would be better off as a single parent rather than live like this; all this man has done to you and the children is drag you down with him. The resultant chaos is unsurprising. Baliffs, him not turning up for work, lying, empty bottle of alcohol lying around the house for you to find. Is this the legacy you want to leave your children?.

If you make an ultimatum you must see it through; it loses all its power otherwise.

AngelDelightIsIndeedDelightful · 22/09/2011 15:37

Hi Cosmic.

Welcome to the thread. I?ve found it hugely beneficial in the short time I have been here. I?m sorry you find yourself in such a difficult position, have some ((())).

I completely understand how you want to believe your dh, I?ve been there too. Ultimately, my dh only made the decision to get treatment because I forced his hand by throwing him out. Up to that point he would regularly tell me he wasn?t an alcoholic.

My concern from your post is that it does sound as if your dh is spiralling out of control. How will you pay the increased mortgage if he stops working? I assume he?s self employed if he?s paying his own tax?

What this thread taught me was that I had a part to play in my dh?s drinking, because I was enabling it. I always knew that (after all he was spending the money I was earning) but I hadn?t ever really admitted to myself that my enabling went far beyond just money. By constantly helping him out with every situation I had created a relationship where he never had to face any consequences. If you help your dh out of this mess that he alone has created, then you will be doing the same thing. He should not be able to use your house as a get out of jail free card.

If he isn't faced with the consequences of his drinking then what is the incentive to stop? Does he really understand what he has done? To us partners it's obvious of course, but an alcoholic doesn't think in the way that a reasonable person does.

So my advice (fwiw) is to refuse the remortgage. Don't offer any solutions, tell him it's his mess and he has to sort it. He's a grown man and should be able to run his own finances.

Calyx · 22/09/2011 18:00

Hiya and welcome Cosmic. It sounds like an awful situation for you ((()). I'm glad you found us Smile

Atilla and Angel have said what I would say too. I second that you need to look after your own self and DC before trying to look after a man who is supposed to be supporting his family. Please try Al Anon and don't make any major decisions while you are angry and confused as I would be in your situation.

My update - my DH is now in his flatshare. Phew and Confused, I dropped him off with some of his stuff last night. I got home, my sister came over and I sobbed for a while then we rearranged the living room and moved everything of his into his old bedroom (CD's, clothes etc).

I was fine at work today and am now trying to get used to this empty flat. The cat's on my lap. It's sad.

He will arrange to get the rest of his stuff at some point. I got him to give me his keys.

I hope you are all well, thanks for all the help and support xxx

cosmicspaceman · 22/09/2011 23:07

Hi Attila, Angel and Calyx. Thank you so much for your words of support. It's such a relief to be able to talk to someone about this.

You are all right I know. I have been completely enabling his drinking by keeping it a secret, clearing up for him etc.

I gave it a lot of thought today and decided that I would tell him that we couldn't remortgage and he would have to come to some sort of arrangement with the tax office. I think we will have to sell the house though. I did have an appointment with citizens advice today (I queued for 3 hours on Tuesday where an advisor advised me that yes I could be advised and please come back today!) but my eldest was off sick so I had to cancel. I also tried ringing Al-anon a couple of days ago as I don't think I can get to the meetings. The lady on the phone told me to ring back after 2pm and I might get to talk to an advisor but then put the phone down before I could say that that wasn't possible. I'm sure she didn't mean to do it, but it made me feel very deflated as it had taken such a lot of courage to actually ring them.

DP hadn't had a drink since Thursday, which I guessed was because he had no money, and even came to the park with us on Sunday. When he started to walk down the street with us DD2 (who is 3) said "what are you doing daddy? You don't go to the park" Heartbreaking really. Anyway, today was payday and surprisingly he got home early. As soon as I heard him so cheerful I guessed that he was drunk. He had that glazed look in his eyes that he only gets from neat vodka and he stank of alcohol. He must have driven home like that (which takes about an hour and a half), if he went to work at all. He started drinking loads of tea when he got back and sobered up so that a couple of hours later I was questioning myself again - was he really drunk, did I imagine it? Sometimes I really question my sanity.

I'm so sorry this post is all me me me again. I'm going to read back through your posts to catch up with everyone elses stories. xx

AngelDelightIsIndeedDelightful · 23/09/2011 20:38

Calyx - that's great news (but sad too of course). Now you can start living your life in peace. My very best wishes to you xx

Cosmic - do you know how you own the house - are you joint tenants or tenants in common? It makes a difference, but ultimately you are a very very long way from being forced to sell your home by HMRC. They might go for a charging order (basically like a mortgage and you would have to pay them off if you sold) but I don't think they're very common. I know what you mean about questioning yourself - does he deny it if you ask? My dh always would. He might admit it the next day or the day after that, but usually not. I even went so far as to buy one of those home testing machines but even when faced with the evidence he wouldn't admit it Angry

They called me today (he'd asked them to) to tell me that he's ok. They're going to let him ring me next weekend Smile I'm knackered, but managing. I didn't cry today which is progress!

cosmicspaceman · 24/09/2011 09:24

Calyx - I know I'm new here, but I've read through this thread and just wanted to say well done for being so strong, you're an inspiration.

Angel - it's so good to hear that your DH is finally getting some help. It must be good to have some peace at home now, but I can see how it must be v sad too. I can only begin to guess what it's taken to get to this stage.

I will look at the mortgage papers and see what it says. I really don't want to lose the house but if we sell then it might be a way for me to detach from him. And yes he will usually deny the drinking, or get all tearful and say something like "well it sounds like you've made you're mind up about me.." and I start to feel guilty. I just wish I could make a decision and stick to it.

Readyisknitting · 24/09/2011 09:40

Hope you both are enjoying the peace, it is sad, but blissful, I found.

Cosmic- I echo advice to check your documents and then find out what your options are. You can't continue to carry him, he's a grown man and has to sort his own mistakes. The mind thing- been there. I remember reading about gas-lighting, and that was exactly how my xh used to make me feel, except the ow was alcohol of course. And all the lines he comes out with- you can bet we've all heard them too.

It sounds corny, but generally it takes you yourself reaching rock bottom to get cracking into action. Keep posting.

cosmicspaceman · 25/09/2011 21:45

Ready, I hadn't heard about gaslighting before but have now read up and it does sound familiar.

Dp has been on the vodka all weekend but hasn't looked at all drunk or even sounded it. He kept going upstairs and when i looked under the bed he had a bottle of vodka hidden there. There's also a carton of orange juice which he bought to bed to drink in the night which smells suspiciously like vodka too. He's been painting our house all weekend and hanging off the top of a very high ladder. It just shows the risks he will take. I know there is nothing I can do for him and am trying to detach.

Calyx · 25/09/2011 23:10

Hi and thanks, yes I have been starting to relax in the quietness and I'm having a nice weekend with my sister and her family :) I am enjoying my rearranged living room and today my sis, her DH and amazingly always seems to cheer me up DD (she's 5 :)) and we went to ikea and bought me a lamp so it's cosy and comfy looking now!

Cosmic, I'm sorry he's doing this :( I am thinking of you and hope you manage to find some serenity. We are here for you. If he's drinking vodka through the evening and the night and that goes on for long, maybe he will 'crash' into his rock bottom and start to look up. Here's hoping that for all of our loved ones who are still drinking or using and in denial. Meanwhile peace for all of us! xx

cosmicspaceman · 26/09/2011 08:07

Thanks Calyx. I'm not sure he will hit his rock bottom until we leave, and even then if he ends up back home I do wonder if his parents will continue to enable the drinking. His mum know that he has a drink problem, but isn't really aware of the full scale of it. She feels that it must be down to depression or stress about money. Reading this thread has made me realise that there is nothing I can do to change this. This is a completely new mindset for me and is hopefully helping me make the right decision.

What really really worries me is how on earth I am going to tell the DDs. DD1, who is 12, is from a previous relationship. She has never met her dad as we split up when I was pregnant and her dad chose to have no contact with her. She has made a couple of comments about DP's drinking over the years but now he drinks in secret and she is not aware of this. DD2 absolutely adores her daddy, in fact they both do. Does anyone have any advice on how to tell them?

maby66 · 26/09/2011 10:03

Cosmic - suggest Al Anon. www.al-anonuk.org.uk/
Also, Alateen may be appropriate for your older daughter. www.al-anonuk.org.uk/alateen
I can't offer direct experience of talking to children about alcoholism, but I can tell you that without a doubt they will know more than you think, and will almost certainly surprise you with how they deal with things.

AngelDelightIsIndeedDelightful · 26/09/2011 10:19

Cosmic - how old is your dd2? My dd1 is just 5 and I have told her that Daddy is 'ill'. I haven't mentioned drinking at all, a cop out perhaps, but it was easier that way. Your dd1 is probably old enough to handle the truth I'd have thought? If you emphasise the illness aspect of it rather than blaming your dh then it might make it easier for her to handle?

I really feel for you because you're exactly where I was just three weeks ago. Your words "I'm not sure he will hit his rock bottom until we leave" struck such a chord. My dh didn't hit his until we'd left and I finally convinced him that a) I meant it this time and b) he was going to lose everything if he didn't face his problem. I'd never stuck to my word before, you see. So there were never any permanent consequences. Now I'm on the other side and I'm starting to feel so much better. You'll get there too.

Calyx - you sound so much happier already. Love the lamp idea!

I'm a bit of a zombie this morning - dd2 has decided that now would be a great time to go through a growth spurt/developmental leap. She was up twice last night

Been to the dentist this morning and he said I must be very stressed because I'd worn down one of my back teeth. "Not anymore" I thought Smile

cosmicspaceman · 26/09/2011 10:49

maby - I will try to get to al anon this week. It will depend on whether DP gets home sober from work otherwise I worry about leaving the children with him in the evening.

Angel - DD2 is 4. I'd love to think that DP would go into a treatment programme but he is still at the stage where he thinks his drinking is 'normal'. But you are right, I've also never followed through on my threats before so maybe this will be the turning point.

maby66 · 26/09/2011 12:12

Cosmic - you may find that there are meetings at various times, not just in the evening:

www.al-anonuk.org.uk/meetings/

CreamolaFoamless · 27/09/2011 16:28

today, well last night my sister had a bath ...

that's a really good thing. She did it because of a funeral

I seriously hate my brother in law just now .

He won't help her but said 'I'll go to the funeral to respresent you'

He is nasty at the moment........he isn't uselualy nasty .......but he is acting like a tit

cosmicspaceman · 27/09/2011 23:36

Hi Creamola, I'm so sorry your brother-in-law doesn't feel able to help your sister at the moment, it must be so hard for you to watch. I don't know the full story, so many apologies if I'm speaking out of turn, but I just wonder if he has reached the point where he has tried so many times before to help her that he just can't bring himself to do it anymore.

I had a long chat with DP's mum today about his drinking. She had been v hopeful that when he said he was definitely giving up last week, that that would be the end of it and so was v upset to hear he is drinking again. I was a lot more forthright about what and how much he is drinking and also how he hides the bottles etc. It was so hard to do, and now I really wonder whether I should have done it. I feel so guilty about making her upset and although it's crazy, I do feel like I've been disloyal to DP too.

CreamolaFoamless · 28/09/2011 01:46

thanks cosmicspaceman.....

I imagine he has hit the point were he's now giving up but that in itself annoys me , even though I know it shouldn't iyswim?

do you get on well with your mother in law or is it simply common ground?

I sincerley hope she can be a support for you, and you her .....

Please don't fret about upsetting her xx

cosmicspaceman · 28/09/2011 08:16

Hi Creamola. How long has your sisters drinking being going on? Has your BIL gone to al-anon or any support groups? I remember reading in your posts that you had looked at these (not sure if you went along) but they all seem to give the same advice about letting them deal with the consequences of their actions. In practice of course this is very difficult and I am struggling with it. It may be, that like me, your BIL still finds it v hard in not helping your sister, but has hardened his heart a little in order to carry it through.

I get on well with my MIL but I guess it is very difficult for her to take in that he is in fact an alcoholic, not just a heavy drinker. I know that ideally she wants me to stay with him and help him recover but I am worried that if I do this the DC's will suffer and we will end up losing the house etc. Like Angel, I think I now need to carry my threats through so that he can reach his rock bottom and then hopefully start on some path to recovery.

secretsquirrel1 · 28/09/2011 14:36

Hi Everyone, just catching up with you all..............

Cosmic, there is no guarantee that your leaving will 'make' him seek sobriety. It didn't 'work' when I divorced my EH - however, I had a years' Alanon under my belt so I knew I was making a rational decision, not just reacting to his behaviour.

My DD was 3 when I started going to Alanon - with the tools I was learning from going there I was able to tell her that daddy has an illness that:

  • causes him to smash things up
  • falls over
  • get very angry at mummy
  • means that he is unable to work
  • means that sometimes he is unable to get out of bed
  • means that when he drinks it makes him very ill, unlike most other people who can drink and they have a nice time.

It became a mantra - I would reinforce this whenever he started behaving badly, then I would take us both away from the behaviour.

To say this helped would be a massive understatement - she was able to tell her childminder/nursery/preschool 'that daddy has an illness - that's why he is the way he is' and once she is old enough, she will have Alateen to help her deal with how he is behaving now (he is still actively drinking).

As has been already said, children know what is going on, despite all the covering up that you have been doing.

And if you are not careful, they will become angry with you for focussing all you attention on the alcoholic, by not saying "ok, daddy/mummy isn't well enough to go on that trip that we planned but we will go anyway"

Another thing you really need to understand is that covering up holds the secrecy that enables the alcoholic to keep drinking.

They do not have to face up to the consequences of the destruction they cause if we also keep on cleaning up after them - I was told to make sure DD had shoes on when he smashed things up. When he sobered up, he could see what he'd done.

Finally, I will re-iterate what the alcoholic is really thinking.........please please read this, and take comfort that this is what they are trying to say to you, even when it is all going horribly wrong in your lives.........................

This is the alcoholic speaking to you.

*"I am an alcoholic. I need your help.

Don't lecture me, blame or scold me. You wouldn't be angry at me for having TB or diabetes. Alcoholism is a disease, too.

Don't pour out my liquor; it's a waste because I can always find ways of getting more.

Don't let me provoke your anger. If you attack me verbally or physically, you will only confirm my bad opinion about myself. I hate myself enough already.

Don't let your love and anxiety for me lead you into doing what I ought to do for myself. If you assume my responsibilities, you make my failure to assume them permanent. My sense of guilt will be increased, and you will feel resentful.

Don't accept my promises. I'll promise anything to get off the hook. But the nature of my illness prevents me from keeping my promises, even though I mean them at the time.

Don't make empty threats. Once you have made a decision, stick to it.

Don't believe everything I tell you; it may be a lie. Denial of reality is a symptom of my illness. Moreover, I'm likely to lose respect for those I can fool too easily.

Don't let me take advantage of you or exploit you in any way. Love cannot exist for long without the dimension of justice.

Don't cover up for me or try in any way to spare me the consequences of my drinking.

Don't lie for me, pay my bills, or meet my obligations. It may avert or reduce the very crisis that would prompt me to seek help. I can continue to deny that I have a drinking problem as long as you provide an automatic escape for the consequences of my drinking.

Above all, do learn all you can about alcoholism and your role in relation to me. Go to open AA meetings when you can. Attend Al-Anon meetings regularly, read the literature and keep in touch with Al-Anon members. They're the people who can help you see the whole situation clearly.
I love you. Your alcoholic"*

Hope that this helps. SSX

AttilaTheMeerkat · 28/09/2011 14:51

Hi cosmic,

re your comment:-
"I think I now need to carry my threats through so that he can reach his rock bottom and then hopefully start on some path to recovery".

As SS (hello!) has just stated there is no guarantee that you leaving will put him on a pathway to sobriety. As I have writen before there are no guarantees here when it comes to alcoholism; your man could lose everything and still drink afterwards.

If you make an ultimatum or threaten him with consequences you must be prepared to see it fully through. He needs to see that there are consequences for his actions; you cannot shield him any more. Not following through means any ultimatum loses all its power and he then knows that you don't really mean it and will give in.

Cosmic, you are as much caught up on the merry go around of alcoholism as he is; you've become his enabler and have covered up for him. A series of actions btw that has neither helped him or you because that has given you a false sense of control.

I see three individuals being dragged down by your partner. You've all been through enough; when are you going to call a halt to this dysfunction because that is what this is.

Words are cheap; they promise much but do very little. Its actions that matter ultimately and your man at present is showing no signs of wanting to seek help for his long term alcoholism. You as his partner as well are the last person who can help him and I do not mena that at all unkindly. It is fact.

cosmicspaceman · 29/09/2011 22:57

SS & Atilla - I do really see the truth in what you are saying. I guess what makes it so difficult is that he doesn't act horribly when he's drunk. He isn't to me, doesn't raise his voice or smash things, or make a mess. He just comes out of his shell and starts interacting with us more, then when he's not drinking he retreats. He rang me today from work to talk things through (he sounded sober and calm). He said he can't stand the way things are, sleeping in the same bed but with me refusing his advances etc. I said that while he is drinking I find it hard to be intimate with him. I said that I will definitely not remortgage and he said ok we will sell the house but he doesn't want any of the money. He still wants to be with me but can see that I don't want this, he even said that he would get help for his drinking. I didn't respond to this but Atilla your words rang in my ears "listen to the actions not the words". Later he rang me back to tell me that he is going to stay away tonight and that he has booked next week off work so that he can get his head sorted. He said either I could go away and he would look after the DCs or he will go somewhere. Obviously I'm not going to leave him with the DCs and also my father is critically ill at the moment so I don't suppose for a moment he thought that I would go anywhere. TBH at the moment I'm just trying to take it all in. I can't focus too much on it as I need all my energy for my dad and my dc's. I look at my dad, who I doubt will last the year out, and I know that at the moment he is more important to me. It doesn't stop me feeling bad though. Did everyone else feel this way?

CreamolaFoamless · 30/09/2011 13:59

i feel like a fraud in this thread sometimes because what I am thinking seems so far removed from the rest of you?

Is there no alternative to Alanon or AA that someone can turn too?

I had a horrible experience with the group (Alanon) and would certainly not encourage my brother in law to go down that path. Is their an alternative?

My sister was sober all day wednesday and thursday and that made me smile so much , even though it was because she had to go to a funeral.

But it shows to me , she is still in there and cares about herslef and others. I really hope it lasts , I have my fingers crossed.

Please accept my apoligies if I don't seem friendly by replying others posts here , it's just hard for me at the moment trying to get my head round whats happening to my sister, but I am thinking of you all xx

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