SUPPORT THREAD FOR PARTNERS OF ADDICTS - PART 2

[ginnny]

I thought I'd start us a new thread since the old one was going strong for over a year and I know a lot of people find it helpful.
DP did go on a bender Monday and Tuesday, which although I wasn't happy about, I understood why. He is lost and can't cope with the grief of losing his Mum.
Since then though he's been great, so once the funeral is over I'm hoping we can put it behind us and get back to normal.
I've suggested bereavement counselling, but he's not convinced.

Creamola - I hear you about detaching, and you are not kicking the ladder away from her.
The difference is being able to detach with love. It is not an easy thing to do, but it is important to understand the differential.
www.ehow.com/how_5820358_detach-love.html
www.thesecondroad.org/tsr/2008/08/12/how-do-you-detachwith-love/

What you are doing is not closing the door on them completely, but setting boundaries where their behaviour will no longer impact/drive you.
If she has truly hit rock bottom and wishes to pick herself up then your detachment will ultimately help her - she must learn to deal with the consequences of her actions herself, without you constantly taking over/excusing/fixing things for her. Be straight about what you are doing and why.

The road you are on is not an easy one. I do strongly recommend that you find some support to share the burden, either in a help group, or at the very least by reading suggested materials which will help you plan/deal/understand what is going on.
Everyone's situation is different, but many things are common. I thought I was the only one to that had it the way I did. Then you go to a meeting or read a book and you just go "wow - that's exactly what I felt like". It helps a great deal to know that other people have been in the same place you have, and can empathise/relate and offer support.

Hi everyone,

Just catching up with all the posts. It's certainly giving me food for thought - I can't imagine being in a position to detach. He's hopeless without me now, after years of dependence.

FGS - just as I was typing that he came over and asked me to sort registering on youtube because he couldn't do it. See what I mean??

We had a great weekend though and he's tried really hard this week. I've even been able to give him some responsibility with dd1, who started school on Tuesday. I take them halfway to school in the car before going off to work and he walks her the rest of the way. He's always sober first thing so although it's hard to trust him with anything I can at least trust him a little with this. Feels so good to share some of the burden of family life with him.

Angel, you can detach, and still live. Detachment is caring about not for. And so on. Here is the link that I found so helpful when I was living the madness. Your post made me feel so sad, because I remember living like that, where I couldn't trust xh to do anything. I'm sure he could do stuff like registering for youtube, but why should he when you'll do it for him? Would you for your child?

I have finally heard about my divorce, my nisi looks to be granted on the 14th!!!! Hooray!!!! 6 weeks after the absolute can be done. on a funny note, ds has said that during their last contact 'Daddy had to buy some knickers for his girlfriend' ROFL.

The thing about 'Detachment' is that it is the behaviour we detach from, not the person.

You cannot even begin to look at the situation you are in until you learn how to Detach (with love, not with hate) from the behaviour.

The trouble with the word 'Detach' is that you would normally think it means to literally 'Detach' yourself from the alcoholic....it does not mean that at all.

We can still love the person without liking the behaviour.

Thank you ss and Ready. It seems wrong somehow to congratulate you on your nisi, but I imagine it's a relief to be near the end?

The part I struggle with is whether it is possible to detach whilst we are still together. For instance, the covering up for him, I don't do it for him. I do it for me and to avoid my embarrassment. A couple of my family members and friends know the problem exists, but have no idea on a day to day basis what it really means for me.

I have never (for example) told anyone that he is on wedding ring #4 (the other three having been lost sold at cash converters).

I do understand that my enabling is a big part of the problem. I just can't see my way out unless he leaves and he won't.

Angel - been there and done that with the wedding ring thing.........yep, he could be my EH - did he replace them or did you?

Hang on a minute, what have you to be embarrassed about? You say that there are some people who already know about his drinking; I can tell you for a fact that there will be more than you think who also know what is going on.

Alcoholism thrives on secrecy. You are enabling by keeping up the 'covering up' for yourself

Don't try to manipulate situations anymore

Don't cover up for his mistakes

Don't do for him what he can do for himself.

You never know, any one of the above may make him realise that you are no longer obsessed by his behaviour, and that if you start leading your life with the dignity and rights that you so deserve, he may change and may find sobriety himself.

Angel - of course you can detach from his behaviour if you are still together.

When he falls asleep in a stupor, leave him wherever he is, but cover him up. That is an example of detaching with love.........

I replaced them. He's unemployed, the only money he has is what I give him (doesn't qualify for benefits because of my income). I now keep #4 in my handbag and he only gets it when we're with my family/friends to prevent it being sold again.

I thought of you tonight, made a small first step.... He made dinner but there wasn't enough so he didn't dish himself up any. Before I'd have told him not to be so silly and taken some off the rest of the plates and made him have some. Not tonight! I just ignored it. Couple of times he made remarks to the dcs like "silly daddy not getting any dinner eh" which I also refused to rise to. He's a grown man, he can feed himself. I was smiling inside thinking MN would be proud

Baby steps.......! I feel like I need to totally rethink everything I do and almost who I am.

Well done Angel, sounds like baby steps but it's huge isn't it!

Quick update (I'm knackered and haven't been on the internet as busy at work and just, well, detached at home) - DH is still here but we're still separating; he has decided he hasn't enough money to get himself a room here where we live (city) but he has spoken to his mum on the phone and told her he will get a transfer to (where she lives and he used to live, about an hour away) as it will be cheaper to rent there.

She emailed me just saying 'spoke to (DH) last night. Is there anything I can do?' I replied, explaining that I am doing this for me and also so that he has to learn to look after himself and have consequences when he gets drunk etc. She sent back a lovely email, she is sad that I have 'wasted' the past ten years 'that you have invested so much of your life in trying to keep the faith while experiencing the pain and disappointment that must come with the realisation that your support and affection is being abused'. She completely understands, I think. She said it's a shame I haven't been able to have a child but she now understands that it is for the best. I feel so sad for her as she also says 'For me the difficulty comes in the shape of being the mother of this person who does not deserve my support and affection. But am I to turn my back on him and leave him to descend into the self made pit which beckons?'

I have replied and sent her a link to the al anon online forum and have tried to briefly explain detachment with love and the need to let him face consequences but that she can still be there for him emotionally. I said that he is still in denial to himself and that he does deserve her support and affection but for my good and DH's good he can't live here anymore. I also said to try not to pick up where I am leaving off.

He is going to see her on Thursday. God let your will be done, not mine. I am still waiting to see what happens.

He did drink at the weekend but I just went to my sister's or stayed in my room and all was fine.

I hope you are all doing well this week, thanks again for being here and sorry I've not been on more xx

Calyx - good for you. As a relatively new member I am wary of posting too much as there are many with probably more experience than myself - but I was struck by the empathy that his mother showed to you, and you also showed maturity and intelligence with offering her some advice re Al Anon.

Keep on keeping on.

For myself, as part of a work development process, I was on a goal mapping course with this person:
www.liftinternational.com/brian-mayne/index.html

I went through a goal mapping process related to me and my family and its come at just the right time, and renewed my personal positivity.
The methodology is demonstrated here:
www.goalmappingonline.com/
Best of all it's free!

Its a way of setting objectives, building time lines and understanding how to move from the now to the future - with both a scientific and "spiritual" element.
If I can do it - anyone can!

That's a lovely message from your mil Calyx I don't speak to mine after she refused to accept any responsibility for dh's childhood issues (stepdad was abusive) and said his alcoholism was all my fault.

Maby - thanks for those links. Will take a look.

Unfortunately XH needed a very scary wake up call to finally quit the booze. He was having DD every weekend on the proviso that he didn't drink while she was there... only he didn't keep his promise and a couple of months ago he put her to bed, got drunk and passed out, leaving the living room window open in his first floor flat... If it hadn't been for his brother calling in on him god knows what would have happened because DD was leaning out of the window throwing stuff out!! She's 2.6!! How i managed to stay calm when i went to pick her up i have now idea but i told him that unless he got help immediately i couldn't trust him with DD again....

To his credit he went to his first AA meeting that evening and has been going religiously ever since. He's waiting to see a counselor and has agreed to testing for alcohol. He's having DD this weekend for the first time in two months and to honest i'm really nervous as although he's made all this effort, after 5 years of hearing the lies and empty promises i find it really hard to trust that he has kicked the addiction for good. It may be a bit harsh but i've even made him sign an agreement that if he drinks again and stops going to AA and counselling, that he will not be able to see DD again!! He's gotta be serious about it this time, surely!! He idolises DD and is an amazin dad... I just hope t

.... He gets his shit sorted out this time!!

Well done Angel.....baby steps lead to much bigger strides!

Calyx, you are very lucky to have your MIL on your side. You could always suggest that Alanon meetings may be a help to her too. She is going to need all the support that she can get. SHe will also learn how to detach with love

My ex MIL is like yours, Angel - but my stock reply to her is 'well you're entitled to your opinion, it differs from mine' and 'I'm sorry that you choose to feel that way about things'.

I don't fight her when she's being particularly nasty, I just think 'it's up to you now - thank God I don't have to live with it anymore!'

Daffy - thank you for sharing that with us. This is the reason why it is so important to have a plan B and C in place. You can never really and truly rely on the alcoholic to behave normally when it comes to the care of DC.

Alcoholics don't mean to behave as they do. They would be absolutely horrified if they knew how dangerous they are when they're drunk, and the fallout from their actions/inactions. But once they are in a blackout, they really have no idea what is going on.

Hi all!
I haven't had time to catch up on this thread yet.
Just came on to update you. Ex got 120 hours community service and a fine and we have got a 2 year restraining order.
He tried to tell them that he wants to see the dc and got it mentioned that he can contact me via a solicitor about that but since they aren't even his he has NO hope at all of ever seeing them again.
He still lives across the road and doesn't look like he's going anywhere, so I am. I am looking to move as soon as I can. I want to make a clean break of it now, away from him and his cronies and starting a new life with my wonderful boyfriend (who I have been with for a year tomorrow by the way )
I will go and have a good read up on here now.
xxx

Angel , it must doubly hard with children in the mix. I really feel for you, I know I'm finding things hard and upsetting, I can't imagine how it must to for it to be your partner and have young children to worry about too.

I did want to ask the thread members if any of you have had any experience regarding food for an alcoholic?

I'm terribly worried about my sisters eating habits, she won't eat for a day at a time then just eats crisps or micro-chips.

I have been considering making home-made meals that she can freeze and microwave and getting healthier snacks into her kitchen(nuts, raisens etc) but I'm not sure if what to make that will be the most nutrional for her or if it's even a sensible path to go down?

Does anyone have any advice or thoughts of on this? Thank you and you are all in my thoughts

Hi Creamola - the trouble with alcoholics is that they gradually find that they are unable to tolerate a full 'meal' as we understand them....eg. they will make a big pretence of preparing a meal and then only manage to eat a small part of it.

You will find that they crave the amount of calories that they get from the alcohol so when they aren't actually physically drinking alcohol they will constantly graze on rubbish/sweets.....

As you are wanting to try to help, those fortified drink supplements are a good start - leave them in her cupboard for her but it is up to her whether she takes them or not......meals sound good in principle but in practice she won't manage a whole one - and then there's the risk that you may get upset if you find it in the bin.....also, be prepared for her to be suspicious of your good intentions.

Ultimately, you will have to learn to let go of your obsession with her behaviour (ie. is she going to eat what I've prepared, has she eaten it, when is she going to eat it) - I mean this kindly for your sake as much as hers.

Alcoholics don't want us on their backs all the time (even though it looks like they haven't anyone in their lives who give a damn).

Keep posting, it's bloody ard work but you will get there in the end - we will help you to keep the focus on You.

As for your sister, I hope she gets there too but it has to be in her time, not yours.

Ginny - phew, what a bloody marathon you've been through! I didn't realise that the ex was living opposite you.......OMG I would have to move right away.

Congrats on the 1 year anniversary, by the way!
I need to start thinking about all that business starting again (lol !) - I can't believe that it has been over 2 yrs since EH moved out.

Ginny, that is fab news, it must be horrid living opposite him. I hate having to look my xh in the face every time I drop the dc off. Congrats on 1yr

That was such a lovely pair of emails Calyx, it must be a relief to know that she is not blaming you, at the same time as a mother, I do feel for her. She really will need all the support she can get to not fill your shoes.

In many ways detaching does involve examining yourself and why you do things. Very difficult, but very satisfying (as you found!)

Daffy's experience is exactly why I will continue fighting tooth and nail to prevent xh driving the dc and having them overnight. An alcoholic is unable to keep promises, esp if it involves not drinking.

I handed back my keys monday I am so loving not having 2 houses! We took DP's oldest up to uni last weekend and had a nightaway- we have a bongo, and so just put up a blow up bed. Add a portable stove and a pub in the village and we were sorted. Now we're saving for a bell tent as we've got the bug [was dormant in both of us!!!] I could never have done any of that in my old life! So much life to life, please consider that, and remember. Please, ladies, get living, don't waste your precious time on an addict.

thanks secretsquirrel1

I know what you say makes sense I just don't know if I'm ready to hear it

The whole thing just makes me feel like a child again.

She is my older sister by 10 years and was always the 'sensible' one so I've been knocked for six in this whole scenario......she was always the one who I turned to and confided in if I had troubles and seeing her the way she is and unable to help just makes me feel useless.

If the tables were turned I imagine she'd have me sorted out toot sweet.

Whilst I know I am 42 and should be all grown up and have a mature outlook regarding this, I honestly feel about 17 and confused and scared and have no idea what to do for the best.

Thank you for listening x

creamola

You can only help your own self in this situation by detaching yourself from it. Making meals for your sister will be a complete waste of time, money and effort on your part for the reasons that SS describes. You cannot act as her enabler in such a manner; it will only give you a false sense of control. Hard as it is to accept you need to accept the fact that your sister cannot be helped by you and does not want your help anyway. You need to remain her sister; not her therapist and certainly not her enabler.

You also do not want to fall into the co-dependency trap; many of these ultimately destructive relationships have codependency elements within them.

There are no guarantees when it comes to alcoholicsm; she could well go onto lose everything and still drink after all that.

She would not have been able to help you if the boot was on the other foot so please do not think otherwise.

Keep posting.

Creamola, OK, so you turned to her and she sorted things out for you when you were younger.

Please do not feel obliged to 'repay the debt' in the hope that you can do for her what she did for you.

Alcoholism is a different ballgame altogether.

Be prepared for the 'after all I did for you' card - it will come sooner or later, along with all the other shit that goes with it.....like 'is it any wonder I drink with a sister like you/you don't really care about me'.

Really not nice, certainly not fair, but you need to be prepared for it as it will happen when you least expect it.

The best way of helping her is to let her know that you will always love her, but ultimately you shouldn't do for her what she can do herself.

She may look completely helpless, but if she had to get herself up and out to get alcohol, she will manage to do it.

Hi Ready & Attila (waves)

thank you

What both you, SS and Atilla makes sense , it really does

I'm certainly not enabling her to get alcohol

I also couldn't ever imagine a day when she would say something like 'is it any wonder I drink with a sister like you' she is simply not that type of drunk

Her drinking came about after severe depression following a hystorectmy ...she didn't drink at all until a year/18 months ago then it spiralled out of control

creamola - I can only echo the advice. You will only end up more stressed by trying to help in that fashion. The energy/meal supplement drinks are a better idea - you are "helping" by buying them and providing them, but you must not try to force the issue or take ownership of her habits. Try to correlate this to an element of detachment - you should not feel guilty as you are making an effort, but not in such a way that ends up with you impacted in time/effort/stress or anxiety.

Hiya, on the iPhone but sending good vibes to you all.

My DH has found a flatshare and I've given him £170 to pay his deposit up. He is moving on Monday he says. He gave the guy his whole wage yesterday (£150) for 2 weeks rent so of course isn't giving me his rent for this week. Plus the guy supposedly took him for a drink and he phoned at half 7 last night 'I'm fucked and skint so I'm getting a taxi up the road, come down and pay the driver please' . Then it was half an hour of drunken gibbering about what a cow I am being kicking my husband out, he's breaking his heart and I'm cold etc etc and how in 5 or 10 years time I will still be childless, lonely, weird etc etc (although I know it's down to me and I can start to live a life once he's gone).

I know that I shouldn't pay his deposit but if I don't then he won't leave. I am looking on it as the price of getting him out ASAP. He is getting nothing once he has left. I'm hoping he will pay some back but doubt it will actually happen.

He is at work and I have written a to do list for myself. But I'm back sitting in my bed because I can't bring myself to get up, washed, dressed, eat something etc. Sigh.

I will make myself a cup of tea and see how I feel after that.

Hope you are all doing okay today, thanks for being here xx