SUPPORT THREAD FOR PARTNERS OF ADDICTS - PART 2

[ginnny]

I thought I'd start us a new thread since the old one was going strong for over a year and I know a lot of people find it helpful.
DP did go on a bender Monday and Tuesday, which although I wasn't happy about, I understood why. He is lost and can't cope with the grief of losing his Mum.
Since then though he's been great, so once the funeral is over I'm hoping we can put it behind us and get back to normal.
I've suggested bereavement counselling, but he's not convinced.

Thanks SS and Lala, and Ready and Ginny and Attila :) in fact everyone here whether they have 'spoken' to me or not as I am often reading through the two threads and finding parallels with myself.

He's looking at another place tomorrow at 3pm. The person said they had a few viewings tomorrow so I don't know if he'll get it or not. He has been checking gumtree and another website and has put a 'flatshare wanted' profile up on yet another. It really does seem as though he has made his mind up and is trying not to stall for time.

I hear you about making it harder for him to hang about, by not doing washing or cooking or anything. But I really feel I would be doing myself more harm if I did. I am stressed enough as it is without being nasty :( As long as I can see he is making the effort and viewing rooms, calling the numbers (he called four today and emailed two, I watched from the sofa). We have said we will keep this amicable and I have said that it is sad and I will miss him but I have to do this for myself. He thinks he is doing it for himself because I am trying to control his drinking which, in his head, is 'normal'. He has never been able to take 'being told what to do'. He probably thinks he is a 'normal drinker' because he doesn't get drunk every weekend and when he does get drunk, he is almost always in blackout and doesn't remember anything.

He has agreed to look at the AA big book online when he's gone so I've bookmarked it on his computer. He said yesterday 'I don't want to divorce or anything' and I just said 'We will be able to think straight once we are living apart. We can give it some time and then have a discussion about next steps' and he nodded.

Creamola - I went to Al Anon last year, did about six or seven meetings (cried my way through the first!) and found it totally invaluable. I bought a couple of the books on Amazon and especially love 'Courage to Change'. I am going to start going again on Monday as I really feel I need the support NOW. I recommend it wholeheartedly and if you go to one meeting and don't feel comfortable, go to a different one another day and another until you find one you like. It seemed so unnecessary, such a fearful step to take (I had social anxiety - well, still do a bit - last year and going to a meeting was really scary for me) but it wasn't at all fearful or scary once I got there. I was my biggest obstacle. I hope you can find a meeting you can get to, give it six meetings they say :)

Angel - what a horrible time you are having :( I think you're a hero to be working full time and bringing up two children AND putting up with that man too. I am so glad you have found us. I think you realise that you are doing yourself and your children no good by allowing him to leech off you financially, emotionally and I will pray for you (if you don't mind) to find the strength to detach and find inner peace so that you can make your decision. Big hugs (())

Lala :( oh no. It didn't take him long to start again, did it. Congratulations on a great scan at 20 weeks by the way! Remember that you are in charge of your life Lala. You can find the strength to leave him or stay with him for the moment, whatever you need to do. I know if he starts screaming and shouting again you can leave the house (maybe your parents?) and remember, he did agree to counselling so maybe you could bring this up again. I don't know what else to say except I am praying for you, thinking about you and sending you strength. You and your DD and the wee twinnies! (did I tell you I'm an identical twin? :))

My DH's alcoholic friend actually owns the cat we have in the house. We are looking after it until he gets a place where he's allowed pets. On Tuesday night he turned up at half 9 pm drunk and took the cat away! He said it was because I was 'throwing out' my DH and that his flatmate said he was allowed to have the cat there. Well. I went straight to my room until he had left with the cat. Then (totally unexpectedly) I started sobbing. I was inconsolable. My DH came through and just gave me a big hug. He was crying too. I said (alcoholic friend) pissed all over my flat (he used to stay in our spare room and wet the bed every night, we had to chuck it after he left); pissed all over my marriage and now he had taken the cat. I was crying that I didn't have a baby and that I had to tell my husband to leave and it was really sad. DH said 'well I'm on my own too once I move out' and I said that was his choice, he could have admitted he couldn't stop drinking once he starts and call AA but he had chosen not to and that's why he had to leave. He actually agreed to this. I phoned my sister and she was lovely and she said a prayer out loud for me. I felt better and went to bed and slept like a log. Yesterday DH came home from work and had (alcoholic friend) with him. Who (shaking - probably DT's) said he was really sorry and that if I wanted the cat, he would bring him back. DH had said to him that was tight, taking the cat with no warning. Alc friend said the cat had tried to escape from the box on the way to his. Once there he had run under the bed and cried the whole night. Didn't eat, pee or poo. When Alc friend brought him back yesterday, the cat went straight for the food, then onto my bed in the spare room and slept. He is mister chilled out today and is at my feet (in bed, on the laptop) right now. I believe my sister's prayer worked!

I'm so sorry for blethering on like this. If you have read through it well done. I am using this thread as a diary as well so that I don't forget what happens. I hope that's all right.

Love to you all and I hope we are all serene this evening xxx

Oh - and today I learned how to do 'threading' off youtube and threaded my upper lip! I look gawjuss :) And - I've agreed to go to Edinburgh on Saturday with my sis and a friend of hers to go charity shopping; also meeting up with an old school friend on Sunday to cheer on two more friends who are running a 10k for the Linda Norgrove foundation (Linda was in my school, 2 years below me, and lived in the village next to mine in the Western Isles). So I am making an effort to do things for myself. It's DIFFICULT! I don't want to go out and find I just want to sleep, or clean the house, or read books by myself. Probably because that's all I've done apart from work for years. I think I need to start going to Al Anon again, start doing some exercise to cheer myself up, and that's all down to your support ladies. Take a bow :) xxx

Creamola/Angel - Alanon is for anyone who has been affected by the drinking habits of another person, be it your parents/siblings/partner/friend.
It is based on the AA programme of recovery for the alcoholic - so essentially you have the '2 Fellowships'. Of course, everyone has heard of AA but not many people have heard about Alanon.

The Alanon website address is www.al-anonuk.org.uk (0207 4030888 10-10pm (I think!)) to find where your nearest meetings are & to talk to someone about what you are going through.

You have to be very patient and realise that what Alanon doesn't do is give you a list of do's & don'ts to get the alcoholic to stop drinking. At meetings, you are encouraged to talk about how You are feeling. Not to talk about what the alcoholic is doing - it's bad enough living with active alcoholism without having to listen to people going on and on about more bad behaviour!

What Alanon does do is give you the tools so you can learn to live your life even if/despite the fact that you are still living with active alcoholism. Once you start changing how you react to the behaviour of an alcoholic, the behaviour of the alcoholic also changes. Sometimes they will start going to AA - but that is entirely up to them. You cannot tell them what they should/should not be doing (you listening at the back there, Calyx? ).

You will find that everyone else there has experienced EXACTLY what you have experienced - and that is one thing that all your friends & family can never even begin to understand.

It is advisable to give it 6 weeks, then to go to an 'open AA' meeting where you will hear recovering (and otherwise) alcoholics talking in a very 'safe environment'. That is something that I cannot recommend highly enough. You will learn so much about why they do the things they do - believe me, you will hear your DP's talking to you.....

You will start to learn that we are, in a way, as sick as the alcoholic is.
And most importantly of all that:

We did not Cause it
We cannot Control it
We cannot Cure it

For me, I can't imagine my life without Alanon, as it is now a way of life that I take to all areas, like work, family etc.

But it isn't for everyone....if you are looking for a quick fix, forget it.

Angel - I was in exactly the same situation as you (but with only 1 child). Earnt so much doing extra shifts to cover the shortfall of EH's salary (when he lost his job) that I got stung and had to pay £1500 back this year. And missed 2 years of my daughters life whilst I carried on spinning those plates. What on earth was the point of all that? So what if we lost the house - it's only bricks and mortar.

No wonder my EH carried on drinking - I let that happen by enabling; I became too terrified to rock the boat by saying 'NO, BUY YOUR OWN F...... ALCOHOL', you're not having any more money from me!

As a result, he soon lost all respect for me. It has been a very hard lesson - because after all I was perfect! I wasn't the one who was sick, he was!!

You need to understand that we play a huge part in all of this - although what we are doing is 'all for the right reasons at the time'. Plate spinning? Yep, we have ALL done it because we felt that we had to, that we had no choice. But you will learn that although they don't have a choice - they have a compulsion to drink no matter what - WE have a choice in how we react to their behaviour.

Calyx - well done you on getting some treats planned, and yes, I agree with you that going back to Alanon will give you the invaluable support that you undoubtedly need. PS. I use the first thread as a diary.....

Keep posting, everyone!

SSX

Lala - for you too.....!

Please don't be talking to him about His drinking -either he will get v. pissed (no pun intended ) off or you'll get v. frustrated. If he invites you to talk about it, fine. But I wouldn't initiate it.

Angel - after a year's Alanon, I was in a much better head space to deal with everything. Unfortunately, there are no guarantees with anything - and my EH started to behave more and more outrageously to get me to react.

He started to behave badly in front of DD, so I made the painful (but ultimately clear headed) decision that I would have to start divorce proceedings. I never gave up hope that he would find AA - sadly he didn't, he is back at his parents and still drinking because they are enabling him, big time.

But do you know what? I don't have any anger, bitterness or resentment left in me now about it all ending. I can't believe that with the 10th anniversary of 9/11 coming up, it was 9/8 when we got engaged....it wasn't all horrible even though most of it was mad!

thanks calyx & secret squirrel

It's my sister that I'm concerned about so I feel like the odd one out here

i'm just reading through the thread from the beginning.

I'm not personally a fan of AA (for a variety of reasons however I don't have first hand experience of it) but I'm going to give Al-anon a shot with an open mind

hi angel

Hiya Girls
Calyx - well done girl - that's lots of stuff for YOU and I think that's great. I know it's not easy but it is soooo important.
No, you hadn't mentioned you're an id twinnie - how exciting! Ours are non-id so are anticipating any combination! Thankyou for reminding me about the counselling - I had forgotten about that!! I have realised that I think I block out so much of his behaviour I forget loads of what is said!!
Creamola - no, not used Al-Anon (yet!!). I did call them last year, but they said I couldn't take DD to the day-time meetings and they didn't talk on the phone to me which I had thought they might.
Ready - were you posting under the same name earlier on the thread?! I do hear what you're saying, but like many others, things do tick along fine most of the time at the moment; however if it escalates - in any way near to last year then I already know I cannot cope with him as well - I used to feel sick on Fridays as it meant he was at home all weekend and I would have to deal with his moods and his anger at me and DD - I CANNOT do that again as DD will be old enough to understand and I cannot also cope with the thought of having to remove (at speed) a toddler and baby twins from the house if he is unacceptable. So, we will see.
SS - I do feel like I have to spell things out for him - not repetitively; but we have not talked much about his drinking and how I feel about it and I do feel like I have to put my expectations down so I can later tell him he has broken them, ifkwim - rather than just one day say - this is unacceptable. (I know in part that is bonkers as he should already know it is unacceptable but hey ho!!)
Angel - How about a call into Citizens Advice to find out where you stand on the house etc. Can you prove his lack of contributions and does that matter anyway within a marriage?? It sounds like you are gearing up to take some action and so need to get your head straight on your options. I cannot work out from your post what you are getting out of this relationship so am not surprised you are looking at options of ending it.
Huggles to all - hope not missed anyone but DD waking now from nap
Lala xxx

Thanks everyone. I totally get that I am part of the problem. Just don't know where to go from here really. It's nice to talk to people who understand though

I did look into Al-Anon a while ago but never made it to a meeting because I didn't want to leave dc1 with him while I went. Will have to find a way round it somehow - bit harder now there's two dcs but where there's a will.

Congratulations to Lala on your pg - twins is doubly exciting!

I'd like to send you all hugs - but not sure that's the mn way is it

We're away this weekend, going up to see my best friends so hoping it'll be a nice time. At least it'll be a break from his drinking.

Dc1 starts school next week so it's a hugely stressful time for me as having to switch over her nursery to one that can collect her after school and need before school cover too. Can't stop myself thinking how much this is all costing when it's so unnecessary - he's unemployed and could take her/collect her but I just can't trust him

Anyway, determined to have a good weekend whatever. I hope you all do too xx

If I hadn't come across your other thread I'd probably never have found this thread, so thank you for that xx

Will post later tonight.............SSX

Calyx - why are you bookmarking AA for him? Try to just let him be without any controlling.....

Lala - of course you feel like I have to spell things out for him - not repetitively; but we have not talked much about his drinking and how I feel about it and I do feel like I have to put my expectations down so I can later tell him he has broken them, ifkwim - rather than just one day say - this is unacceptable. (I know in part that is bonkers as he should already know it is unacceptable but hey ho!!) it is only human to feel this...................

BUT

hearing you going on about his shortcomings will drive him to drink more. It's the perfect excuse for him to do so - in that he has made your lives shit, he can see you have such a low opinion of him so drinking helps him to escape the mess he has helped create.

He has no reasoning or understanding because HE IS SICK. That is why he behaves the way he does. You need to be able to understand that his behaviours are part of the disease. The only way you'll get your head around this is by giving Alanon a go.

Creamola - you are not the odd one out......your S has exactly the same behaviours as our partners

Angel - you have a duty of care to your DD. Believe me, someone will notice at the school gates if your H is drunk; and they would be perfectly within their rights to report him.

Can you manage to go to work, all the while waiting for that call to say that your DD hasn't been picked up?

I was always on high alert until I could get home. I thought just like you - he's home all day, he can do it - if only to prove to me and to himself and DD that he's normal.

I was called by the nursery staff because he was drunk - just the once but that was enough.

I know what it's like, you want to give them the chance to be a functioning normal parent - but they are not and can not be normal. They have every intention of being normal but you cannot guarantee that the drink will not come before every/any thing else .

Most schools have breakfast and after school clubs - you will soon make friends with some of the mums and your DD will get invited to tea/parties etc.

Angel - I do 12 1/2 hr shifts. My excellent CM gets paid 'nanny rates' between 6-9pm; and she is more than willing to give DD a snack at 4, a cooked meal at 6 then take her back to ours and put her to bed at 7.30pm.

I was looking at having to get a nanny/au pair but couldn't bear the thought of anyone else in the house, esp. after all the madness of the past 5 years

It's just an option for you should your H move out - but I'm not projecting here, just letting you know that it doesn't have to be doom and gloom. Once you stop funding his drink, you'll have the money to do this. Harsh but true.

There are Alanon meetings that have creche facilities - depends where you are.

Hiya
SS - you do talk sense and you are so useful to have around!! It's quite a hard adjustment isn't it? Every time I load this thread I see Ginny's post saying about when she first met her oh she just thought he liked a few cans, as all lads do and that he would change as he grew up. Both I and DH worked in the pub we met in (17 years ago now!) and I continued to work in the pub trade until leaving work to have DD. Alcohol has always been part of our relationship and I never thought of him as an alcoholic until I stopped drinking and he didn't.
Angel - if you are having to pay someone to take dc1 to school and pick them up from it because their unemployed father is too pissed to do it there is something seriously wrong!! I know I should listen to myself and it is always easier to dole out advice than take it but hon - what are you still doing with him????!!!!!
Calyx - how are you feeling? Has your dh made any progress with either moving out or AA? How is his drinking/drugs this weekend?
I do have a dear friend who I trust with DD, although she is taking care of her loads for me as I have lots of hospital appts and scans, and if dh drinking starts upsetting me more I will ask her if she will have her for me to go and give al-anon a go. If I don't get there before the twingles come it could be a long time!!
How do any of you cope with the alcohol=money thing when it is DH earning the money? Since I stopped working I have felt very lacking financially as I obviously don't contribute anything. DH gives me money for bills, food etc and £150 as cash each month and he keeps the rest of his wages. I know this means he has about £500-£600 a month left over but he sees it as his money, not OURS. It gets me cross when I add up what he spends on cigarettes and booze because it could all be going towards the things we desperately need for the twingles and even savings to build up again (all our savings have gone on IVF) and maybe pay some off the mortgage (on interest free so all out money could go on IVF). It means that whilst I have to budget the money he gives me really carefully to make it last and if I need anything extra (e.g. just needed to buy a tummy support belt for my expanding tummy - £26) I have to ask him for it............. whilst he spends £300-£400/month on booze and fags......... has anyone else approached this in anyway????
Angel I do hope your weekend away is good without any drinking
Huggles and happy weekends to you all
Lala

Lala - Is there any way that you can set up an account in your name only where he can pay money by DD into it? You could say that it's for bills etc and short term until you are back earning.....even if he is 'only' paying (what seems like) a derisory sum to you - if you have all the bills laid out and a sum total, then he can't really argue with that.

I know he's behaving badly now with money and it's a knife twisting in the guts when you see what he is keeping for himself, but at least he is paying something. You need to start planning so that he hasn't got access to this money - because believe me, you are going to need every penny.

If you can, you need to stroke him with praise when he does give you money - it's a power thing and they do become bullies about it. As we say, you have to fake it to make it even if all you really want to do is kill them for being so DIFFICULT! Please try not to nag/scold when he isn't doing what any normal partner would do - you must remember that you are not dealing with normal behaviour.

He may genuinely have no idea how much all that IVF cost - show him all the bills and the drain on your savings, but you need to pick your time (usually a window of opportunity when he isn't drunk, or if HE initiates a talk about money). Have everything ready if you can so you can produce it there and then.

My EH managed to get paid off from the C. Service. They couldn't prove it was because of his alcoholism; he managed to persuade them that it was PTSD from when he was in the Navy. Complete B....... of course, but as we all know, all alcoholics are very very persuasive and can sound very very authentic.

He was always cagey about how much he got, but one day out of the blue, he announced that he was paying £7500 into my account because 'that was his half of the mortgage for a year'. He signed up to Sky for a year then literally put up his feet until 4 years later when the divorce was finalised and he left. I kept hold of that money, thank God, because one day he raided our joint account of £1000 because he got it into his head that I was being underhand with the money.......

And then guess what? In the process of the divorce, I find out from his form E that he'd actually been paid £42000 .

I have since found lots of his bank statements stashed in the loft - all unopened. They did not make good reading - all the signs were there of his erratic attitude to money. And this was just after we first met . Believe you me, some days £200 would go and there was nothing but vomit & urine to show for it.

I'm only telling you this because you need to have your wits about you. One day he'll turn for no reason at all and you may be left penniless and completely dependent on his goodwill.

You must start putting a plan B & C in place. Stop assuming that 'it will all be ok and he'll suddenly step up to the plate'. Alcoholism is an insidious, progressive illness. You have to be really grateful (through gritted teeth ) when they are behaving well; enjoy that time, but don't ruin it by saying 'why can't it be like this all the time? The nature of the illness doesn't allow for this. Take it one day at a time.

It would be really good for you if your friend could help you out so you can go to a meeting - it is so important to focus on yourself.

If you can get to one, just listen listen listen.

Forgot to say, like ginnny, when I first met my EH, I wasn't concerned about the drinking because he is 6'5. I saw him have a couple of cans and wine every night with our meals at the start (he'd laugh 'cos I'd only have 1 glass!)...........but it was what I didn't see - the vodka in water bottles, the water bottles that he had in his rucksack/by his side which progressed to vodka in milk by the end

Al-anon is not for me

They think my sister is horrible and selfish for being the way she is?

Is there an alternative to Al-anon (asking out of despartion here because I wanted to do nasty things to those people slagging my sister off !!)

Any advice would be gratefully received .

I know she has a problem , she knows she has a problem but a bunch of strangers telling me to turn my back on her does not help.

Have just got a 'bad' Al-anon meeting or is it normal to treat the ill person like they don't count and aren't worth helping?

Creamola, hi again and hope things are not bad today. Just wanted to reply to your last post but am on the moby and will have my laptop later.

Al anon in my experience wants you to put aside your stressing/worrying/trying to help the drinker - in order to start looking at your own self and learning to look after yourself.

This is so that you get a straight view of everything and then you may be in a position to help your sister. They might discourage discussing the drinker and what she is doing and sometimes tell you that you need to detach emotionally (and sometimes even physically) from that person's drinking behaviour in order to protect yourself and this can sound like they are telling you to just ignore them.

Detaching with love is one of the most difficult things in the world but once you can stop obsessing on the drinker and what they are doing, you can look at the situation from a 'step back'. This will allow you to look objectively at the situation. It helps the drinker because if you 'stop helping' or enabling the behaviour, the idea is that the drinker has to deal with the consequences of their drinking.

At the first meeting I went to, I was disappointed that I wasn't to discuss my DH. He was the reason I had to go, wasn't he?! I felt annoyed that they wanted me to look at my feelings etc. I now realise that I was (still am but am working on it!) codependent and that's why I couldn't take the focus off him and put it on me.

I am separating from my DH but not because he is a bad person. It's because I am learning that although I love him, I need to let him drink if that's what he wants to do (I've no right to tell him to stop) but I have the right to not live with it. It was damaging my mental health. The hope is (for me anyway) that once he is on his own, he will have to deal with the consequences - financial, physical etc - without having me to bail him out. This could make him realise that drinking is not fun and that his binges and blackouts are not normal. I pray this happens and he seeks help for himself before it's too late (he loses his job, his health suffers etc). I will be hoping he does and that we can have a life together... But I won't hold my breath or put my life on hold for it.

Letting the drinker make their own mistakes and deal with their own fuckups is hard when it's a partner but must be devastatingly difficult when it's your relative .

I'll be back on later, hello everyone xx

Hi creamola,

I have read your AIBU thread on this subject and I do feel for you all in this situation. You are all in dire straits here. As her sister however, you need to remain her sister. You cannot act as her therapist in this situation but on the other hand it is apparant how much you want to help her as you feel a great deal of responsibility towards her. The downside is that you run a real risk of being further sucked into her alcoholism; its a family disease that does not just affect the alcoholic here but all around them. Learn yourself about enabling and codependency; there are often elements of these within such relationships.

Detaching emotionally is very hard but it is something you may very well have to do yourself re your sister.

What did you want Al-anon to say?. They won't say there, there because that helps no-one. You probably went to a meeting where some pretty harsh (well you thought harsh) things were said (alcoholics can be truly selfish, a description you likely cannot tally with your sister). If you cannot face any more meetings and I would urge you to give Al-anon another chance, then read their literature instead.

Do you think your sister actually wants to deal with her drinking now or are you hoping she does?.

Going to sleep now, forgot to update so will see you tomorrow, night all xx

Hi - I don't believe I am the best person to offer advice. My own situation is ongoing. All I will say is that I echo the point made by Calyx and Attila.
Your sister has a problem that is affecting you. You cannot make/force/fix or rescue her. Al Anon is focused on helping those who are affected by others drinking - not to fix the others. They need to do that themselves through AA or another method. Al Anon will be focused on YOU and the pain YOU are going through, and how to help YOU deal with that. Wanting to help the other is natural, but can become co-dependency very quickly.

I am reading this: www.amazon.co.uk/Codependent-No-More-Controlling-Yourself/dp/0894864025/ref=pd_bxgy_b_text_b

Sometimes you need to have have some distance to see some of the things that need to be done.

Creamola - I'm sorry to hear that your first Alanon meeting was not a good one for you.

I'm also sorry to hear that you feel that 'they think my sister is horrible and selfish for being the way she is' . Are you sure that they weren't describing the behaviour as horrible and selfish?

Because if you did manage to read all of the 1st thread and this one, you'll see that the behaviour is exactly that - but despite all the horrible and sometimes violent behaviour we still all love our alcoholics - why else do we stay with them, trying to fix them? It's because we live in the hope that we can get them sober and then we'll have them 'back' again.

Because we think we can control the situation, it takes a very long time to let go. We have to understand that we have absolutely no power over it.

The hardest thing to accept is that underneath the alcoholic behaviour, they are the loveliest kindest people who would do anything for you. The alcoholism takes over and all we are left with is a 'Jekyll & Hyde' character who ultimately drags us to the bottom of the pit of despair with them.

You should have been given a newcomer pack with some literature in it, and some info about how and what the meeting is all about/how it runs. Please, try another meeting before giving up...........Keep posting on here. Take every care of yourself. SSX

thank you for your replies guys (Calyx, AttilatheMeerkat,maby66 & secretsquirrel)

What you say makes perfect sense.

the bit I suppose I'm finding hard to deal with is 'detaching'

No-one would ever ask you to detach from someone who had cancer, or ms, or schizopheria or depression

I'm not going give up on her or detach myself from her because she is my sister....

She has helped me in the past with various 'emotional crisis' I'm not prepared to give up on her .........but I'm at a lose as to how to help (if that makes sense)

Depression following a hysterectomy was the route of all this , she wasn't even a social drinker prior to that (one at christmas was the most I had ever seen her drink)

She has already lost her husband and her daughter and lives in her stinking bedroom 24/7.

Everyone else (who has given up) tells me ...'Just let her die creamola' ........that infurates me and makes me so angry.

But at the same time I have read posts here from people who have been the partner and I'm beginning to see the other side of coin.

It muddles my head up no end ....I just don't know what to do for the best

oops I got so wrapped up in my thing there I neglected to say that my thoughts are with you all x.

I hope you find peace and a good outcome to the situations you are dealing with.

It's really nice to talk with people who understand , thank you again

I agree with SS's comment further up the thread, have a secret stash. open up an instant access ISA or something. It saved my sanity many a time.

I'm sorry you struggled with Alanon, but I suspect your anger and disappointment with them was they were not saying what you'd hoped to hear. As for many, not just alcoholics, you have to reach your personal rock bottom before you bring about change. Likewise you sister will have to reach this point.

I must write a TMA, but peaceful vibes ladies

she (my sister) is already at rock bottom she is trying to claw her way out of it at the moment

If I say 'ok you have put your foot on ladder but I'm going kick away from now' that would be a really bitchy thing to do ?