SUPPORT THREAD FOR PARTNERS OF ADDICTS - PART 2

[ginnny]

I thought I'd start us a new thread since the old one was going strong for over a year and I know a lot of people find it helpful.
DP did go on a bender Monday and Tuesday, which although I wasn't happy about, I understood why. He is lost and can't cope with the grief of losing his Mum.
Since then though he's been great, so once the funeral is over I'm hoping we can put it behind us and get back to normal.
I've suggested bereavement counselling, but he's not convinced.

OK. So if you don't have the conversation, nothing will really change - his cycle of alcohol abuse will continue to follow its course. If you do have the conversation, you'll get told some false promises that you'll end up believing but that will actually change nothing and his cycle of alcohol abuse will continue to follow its course.

Which all goes to show the truth behind the Al-Anon saying of you cannot control his alcoholism. It doesn't matter what you say to him. It won't change his cycle of alcohol abuse. So rather than have another conversation which will end up with you being lied to, what can you do to change this situation?

today I joined stepchat...online alanon. Have found a local meeting. Need to get my head in the right place - I am as much in need of treatment as he - I am the DD of an alcoholic, and I married a man just like dad. I need to get into the understanding of alcoholosim and co-dependancy so I can withdraw.

shongololo, I had 'that' conversation so many times with dh when he was drinking. There was a very distinct pattern to his drinking (he was a binge drinker). It would start with a week or two of fairly 'normal' drinking, i.e. social drinking at the weekends. After a week or two the weekends would start on Thursday and last till Monday. Gradually it would build up until he would have a major binge lasting a week where he wouldn't work, just drink until he fell down. IN a way it was a relief when the binge started, as I could feel it building up for weeks and it was like storm clouds rising. I knew that when the binge was over, we would have relative calm for a week or two until the cycle started again. That went on for years, with me having 'that' conversation about how I was going to leave him if he didn't change and him promising me that he would change and that this time he really meant it. Someone in Alanon explained it to me, that we listened to what the alcoholic said and they listened to what we did. So we believed their promises and they disregarded our threats because experience had taught them that we would never follow through. It was only when I took steps to leave and dh saw I was serious that things changed. I had to stop having that conversation with him as the lies were too painful to listen to.
You are right about you needing treatment too...alcoholism is a family disease and everyone in the family is affected in some way. Alanon was the start of a better life for me and subsequently for all of us. Dh says that without it he believes I would have left him and he would never have got sober. I can't believe that he is sober today. We have just enjoyed our second sober Christmas, I used to dread Christmas and couldn't bear to hear anyone talking about it. I still get edgy coming up to it, but that has improved. Best of luck with Alanon, do try and go to at least six meetings before deciding if it for you or not. It took a long time for things to get as bad as they are now and it will take time for them to get better, but they will get better.

Hello all,
I thought I would pop in and say hi.

OH smoked his way through christmas with some regular sulking at how little gifts he had received.

I glad to be back at work to be honest.

We had a chat last night right before I went to bed. He was sitting on the floor rolling a smoke and said " I dont make you very happy do I, You want me to leave dont you ".All tearful and unhappy.

I of course felt guilty but angry at the same time. Whenever we discuss the state of our relationship or the problems within it we never discuss his smoking. Its always just brushed aside. He isnt going to give up he doesnt see it as a problem and its not even a factor apparently. he says it is different to being an alcoholic as he doesnt stagger around or get violent. Thousands of succesful people smoke and I am blowing it all out of proportion apparently.
He enjoys it and has no intention of giving up.
meanwhile he doesnt work and I am petrified the police will knock on the door eventually ! So why isnt that enough for me to give him his marching orders ?

Forthebest,

You're trapped in a cycle of codependency and probably do not believe you could manage properly without him.

You must be still getting something out of this dysfunctional relationship otherwise you would have kicked this man to the kerb a long time ago. You need to be completely honest with your own self here re your reasons for not ditching him to date otherwise you could well be writing the same next Christmas and you will be no further forward.

What did you yourself learn about relationships when growing up, what did you learn from your parents?. Are you repeating a pattern here that you saw in childhood?.

He will continue to emotionally manipulate you because you also allow yourself to be manipulated.

You received an awful lot of good counsel on other threads - you need to re-read those and take full note of.

What is all this teaching your children about relationships, what are they learning from you both here?. Both of you are imparting damaging lessons to these children.

YOur right ATMK. Thank you.
I have read the responses on the other thread I started and ALL of you are right.

I know its not good for me and I know its not good for my DC.

I need to sort it out. My parents are wonderfully and happily still married. They adore each other.

I probably am damaging my children. Thats the painful truth. My youngest DC kept telling me to say thank you to daddy for all the flowers he bought me on xmas eve. She couldnt understand why I wasnt doing it. I am confusing them.

I'm sorry to be being so patetic. I feel that way about myself.

Its not very easy being in my head. SO many people in RL and on here have asked me what my reason is for letting him stay and I dont know the answer.

Scary isnt it.

I wont post again untill I have taken steps to sort my life out. I cant keep on and on asking for advice and ignoring it.

Thank you

Sometimes you are just not ready to make the moves needed and that is ok too. I'm glad that no one in Alanon judged me for being frozen with indecision, if they had I wouldn't have gone back and got the strength I needed to finally make changes. I was petrified of what my life had become but I was even more petrified of the changes I needed to make. The shit I was in was horrible but it was familiar. The members of Alanon supported me through all the indecision and u-turns I made and the fact that they didn't tell me what to do meant that when I finally made decisions, I really felt like they were my decisions that I had reached by myself and not someone else's solutions forced on me. Please keep posting here, it is the support and encouragement you receive here that will give you he strength you need to sort things out. It might be two-steps-forward-one-step-back for a while but that is normal.

Hear Hear, Ludog

FTB-please please keep posting....

Don't stop thanking him for the random acts of kindness that he manages to do either; but just say your thanks then move on from it. Don't make an issue of it (ie. telling him that a bunch of flowers won't even start to make up for the shit you've had to deal with-hearing you say this will be the only excuse he will need for that next drink, of course!) because that will (also) get him off the hook until next time, as well as giving him valuable information to use against you in the future.

And yes, your current behaviour is confusing for the DC but don't be beating yourself up about that because at least you are recognising how it is affecting them. They may be only young but you would be amazed how many other things they pick up on as well when living with an active alcoholic.

Hope everyone else is keeping well.

"today I joined stepchat...online alanon. Have found a local meeting."

Those are both very positive things to do. Well done!

~I am a bag of mixed emotions atm, guilty for asking him to leave, resentment, our vows meant a great deal to me and I feel a failure as a wife, deep down I also know he has to want to give the drinking up himself.#
By Red on 2nd Jan.

Thats EXACTLY how I feel (only it is drugs in our case)

I really wanna get stuck into this thread but tbh I feel this thread only makes me remember how real my situation is - Any one else feel like that?

I dont intend to get a divorse yet - I just dont think I could handle it atm. I want to leave it for a while.

I have stopped the phone calls between him and my young son. I just dont think my son needs a father that is involved in the life he is involved in. Is that wrong of me?

Hi everyone

Lets hope 2010 brings more happiness to us all.

I'm planning the day when I tell H that its all over.
he treated me so badly over xmas/new year because he ran out of spliff and couldn't track any down.
Its tiny things but relentless - i.e. last night he told me to stop eating my apple because it was too loud. He crashes round the house at night while I'm trying to get DD down and then shouts at me when I ask him to stay quiet. He looks at me with a hardened glare which is gutting.
Worst of all though, when we went to get DD's xmas pressies, I'd forgotten my credit card, so he told me that everything we had bought would be from HIM.
The sad thing is if i was with a partner I loved and who loved me back equally I'd stay here for another year as I've got such great mates. DD loves her life - we're outdoors almost every day of the year. Its gutting to know that I dragged myslef out here to keep our relationship together, have worked my butt off to make a new life for Dd and i and now I have to leave because of H. last night he said "oh, why don't you just go home..."
Well thanks for that mate. i've spent most of my savings on our life here, so much infact that I can't afford the ticket home for Dd and me, let alone shipping my possessions back (apparently they are mine now - he doesn't want anything to do with them).
I looks at him and feel disgust. he lied about scoring more drugs the other day - pretended he had a meeting in the city. It makes me so sick.
Sorry for the rant - bad, bad week. will try and be tougher next time I post.

BG - my heart goes out to you, it really does. I can appreciate how you feel on both counts....not just with the partner who is behaving like an arse, but being out there far away from 'home' and feeling alone and isolated....'cos that was me back in the early 90's. Though not with a partner, but with my 2 closest friends who'd got fixed up with 2 brothers in the week it took for me to get out there to be with them! Definetly 4's company 5's a crowd!

You say that you have some great mates out there and the quality of life is so much better for yur DD - surely they would help you to start over again? I stuck it out for 6 months and slowly but surely my life did pick up; I made some fantastic Aussie mates who I'm still good mates with now.

Could you move to somewhere else? If that's the way he feels about your poseessions then you should move out lock stock....put your gear into storage until you have a better idea what you're going to do. Though this may look to him as if you're being reactionary to his vile behaviour - try try not to react to him - as with the alcoholic, it's pointless. Just keep out of his way when he's being poisonous.

Do they have the same sort of womens refuges/womens aid places that they have here? Personally, I think that you need to have this extra time to get your head around what is happening-please give yourself a massive break, don't make any snap decisions to come back (this is the last place you'd really want to be right now [grin!])

Hello - Newbie here.

Found MN as DH and are TTC #1 and I stumbled on the Narcisstic parents thread and I was pointed here, as my Father is an alcoholic and has been for as long as I can remember and I have a far from perfect relationship with my Mother.

Cut & pasted from the other thread!!

My situation is :

Alcoholic father for as long as I remember. He held down a job but would really drink when not at work.

I could never have friends round as worried that he may pitch up drunk, though mainly drank at home. Many years on and in my own place with MrSS I still am funny about visitors, especially unexpected ones. I almost panic when the doorbell goes.

Other hideous scenarios: Father went through the living room window whilst drunk, was found drunk and passed out in the street by the other kids. Would regularly fall asleep in restaurants at the table. Answer the house phone drunk. Play records really loudly. Have complete control over the tv.

I remember being thrown up the stairs once by him when I threw a paddy cos my mother was going out one night and I was left at home with him.

One time we went out for dinner with my now husband, to have my Father offer him out at the table. Making MrSS very uncomfortable around him for fear of violence. Never did hit him, the slury sleepy drunken threat was enough.

Mother looked after us kids. Obviously knew Father was not the greatest but never did anything about it.

I sought refuge elsewhere for as long as I can remember as I couldnt bear to be at home which I think hurt her, though all she could think about was how my Father was hurting her.

I would call her and say Hi, how are you, to be met with a conversation entirely about herself, how bad her life was, how disgusting my Father was. If the conversation ever turned round to me, all she could do was pick on me, or be mean, criticise or be all woe is her. Actually now I remember everything got turned back round to her.

Understand she needed to let off steam but I was her Daughter and I couldnt handle it.

Whenever I asked for advice about anything I was always met with why I couldnt do something not how I could do something.

After many years, I have now cut them out and I feel better. If we have DC MrSS wants me to contact them so they can be grandparents. Honestly I don't want to. Will cross that bridge when we come to it.

My friends don't understand, at all. Hard having to avoid topics involving parents in case someone asks "oh and how are yours?".

Mother has been seriously ill and this is sad, but it doesn't change anything. I am sure that this makes me even more of a bad person in some people's eyes.

I have come to the conclusion, life is for living and its about time I started to live mine, with my demons and all.

Indeed I have not escaped unscathed as I have severe highs and lows, find hard to communicate, get very hurt very easily, bad mood swings, boy can I swing!! Not pretty and I cant stop myself sometimes. Wonder if I am Bi-Polar?

As others have said, I feel like an orphan.

I long for that Mother / Daughter relationship but not with my Mother. Does that make sense??

As kids, I don't really recall any affection of really any sort. No hugs hello or goodbye and certainly no kisses on the cheek or anything.

My Father, a few years ago, hugged me and told me he loved me, cant remember if he'd been drinking. I remember going stone cold and not knowing how to react and not being able to get out of the house quick enough.

Most people don't know about my Father and I don't intend to enlighten them either.

I used to keep a diary throughout my early teens to my twenties and reading it through now is really sad. Nearly every day had an entry about my Father drinking or the effect that his recent drinking had on us.

If anything, they have turned the situation that its now I am in the wrong and they are keeping me at a distance.

I just hope that when we have children that I am the best I can be and I don't put any of my emotional abandonment onto them and drive them away by being all consuming all loving and all controlling as I am frightened they may do to me what I have done to my parents.

Nice to meet you all BTW.

Hello Silver and welcome !

Phew, you really have been through the mill, haven't you?

Reading your story made me feel 'thank God I got out when I did, for the sake of our DD' but then I did feel desperately sad that for anyone else reading this for the first time, it lays bare what the effects of alcoholism are for DC's.

Your mum, to a degree, was doing the best she could with a very difficult situation - but coupled with the Narcissism, well what a nightmare for you.

Because even without the Marcissism, living with alcoholism is a progressive descent into complete madness....your dad would've obsessed about where his next drink was coming from and your mum would've obsessed about his behaviour, which, as you've just explained, has left no room for you and years of this has severely damaged your relationship with them.

All of us on here will know exactly how you feel as we have put up with the exact same scenarios, the embarrassment, the abnormal home life....but we all gain strength and support from each other by talking on here.

Al Anon may also help you - personally speaking, it has been an enormous help to me. Give the General Service Office number a ring to find out where your nearest meeting is on 020-7403-0888 or email:
www.al-anonuk.org.uk

Keep posting.

Thank you.

I don't think my mother was narcissitic, all I know was that our childhood/teenage years were difficult.

Even recall having the teachers in primary school pulling me to one side and asking me if everything was alright at home? I must have been behaving strangely.

AS my parents are out of my life now, sort of, I feel that there is no need for me to get help, as I have dealt with it and shut it off. Not healthy I know but I am not comfortable talking to anybody in RL. Even reading the rely posts makes me cry!

When not drinking my Father was a great fun person and well liked, when drinking he was just a slob and a sleepy drunk but when pushed he would get angry and argumentative.

I grew up trying to push his buttons as I felt my mother wasn't doing anything to sort the situation so I would. Even bought him a Self help book for alcoholics once - as a birthday present. I know that they can only help themselves when time is right but I felt he needed a kick in the right direction.

I have no idea if he is drinking now or is a reformed character. All I know is my mother has stuck by him, chose him over her kids who she is now estranged from.

Me bitter? Never!

Oh sorry Silver, I misread the beginning of your post....

The thing is about Al Anon is that you have to be at your rock bottom otherwise its a bit like the Alcoholic going to AA before they have too...a lot of people go to Al Anon and don't feel ready to say anything for weeks - this is fine; some people are like gushing waterfalls (that was me [embarrassed]!!).

The main thing you would understand is that complete powerlessness over alcohol - that alone would help you understand why all those things you did as you were growing up (trying to save your father) had no effect; it would also help you come to terms with the enormous rage, bitterness and resentment that you have locked inside you.

I can understand some of your 'ambivelance' for want of a better word....I totally understand that being brought up with alcoholism is completely different to being married to it - but it is just good to know that there is support for you for later on when/if you do have kids, because that is when it could get tricky with all your suppressed feelings coming out.

I started a thread before christmas about my depressed and alcoholic dh, we have been up and down since then as he stopped drinking ovr christmas after initially asking me for help after a bender, then started again at new year, then stopped. He has been to the doctors and counsellor, AA meetings and we are just taking it day by day, and talking alot about both of his problems and how they have progressed and worsened eachother, and how both issues are affecting me and our relationship and dc.

I went to an al anon meeting and just spent most of the time listening, i did speak but was too tearful to make much sense, as someone said about this thread a few posts ago just being there made me realise my situation and it upset me so much. I cried all the way home but i think actually it was quite a good release and i will go back to a meeting this week as i felt really hopeful and positive despite the tears, just to be amongst people who were in a similar boat and carrying on. I got some introductory literature from them and i have been looking online, but i just wanted to ask this, of people who are in alanon;

It's quite hard for me to get to meetings as i have two young dc and they are all at wrong times of day but i could tell from just one meeting that it would be incredibly helpful for me. I want to work at my marriage, not walk out, or make him leave, i want to learn how to deal with the alcoholism, he is overall a good man who does deserve me.

I think my question is, if i cant get to alanon, is there anything i can do similar to support myself? I looked at stepchat and joined one meeting but found it hard to "meet" online in that way, it was in America but more than anything i didn't like the format online, of waiting for people to type things out. If i go to alanon should i really ideally be going to the same meeting each week? Or is it more the going than going with the same group of people each week that helps? My husband mentioned someone gave him a phone number at his meeting, i think i would love someone to chat to from alanon in real life, so short of just asking someone from that group is there anything else i can do? Every time i call the helpline it cuts out so i'm asking here..

Also, someone earlier mentioned just listening when you first go. I did talk a bit but did find it hard, and just hard to know what i should be saying on first "shares". Should i give an account of the background to his drinking etc when i join a new group? Or just talk generally on whatever they are talking about that day? I just want to get the most out of meetings and its all a bit disorientating when you first go to one and there are no guidelines.

unyummy, I've found the Sober Recovery website the best for Al Anon (and non-12 step) online support. Sober Recovery is largely aimed at alcoholics / drug addicts themselves but don't let that put you off - the friends and family section is fantastic. I've gained an awful lot of support there over the last few years and made some good friends as well.

As for first "shares" in an Al-Anon meeting, you can say what you want. I think I gave a brief overview of why I was there and what I hoped to achieve. Al-Anon can be great but I found the format of the actual meetings a little frustrating at times. You can share but asking questions is discouraged which I found difficult. I found that hanging around afterwards and chatting one-on-one with people whose experiences matched mine was more useful for me.

I think the most important thing to try to "get" about Al-Anon is that it's about us much, much more than it's about the alcoholics in our lives. When I went to my third or fourth meeting, afterwards I was getting a coffee and another attendee came over, said that he'd noticed me there a few times and asked how I was. I talked a bit about how I was trying to deal with my ex phoning me late at night when she was drunk out of her skull and looking for an argument, and how I was hopeful that her latest bout of counselling would make some difference to her alcoholism, and so on and so forth. The bloke I was talking to listened patiently and then gently said "You've just spent the last five minutes talking about how your ex is doing. I asked how you are." That really made me think.

UnYummy - feel free to CAT me if you want to talk more.

There is no 'right' way of Al Anon (support) meetings.....I know people who go to several meetings a week, equally I only go to one a week cos I can't afford to pay out for babysitters....(whatever happened to a fiver for the night and as much popcorn you can eat?! ), though if I was in a really really bad place I'd find the money somehow!

The whole point of talking one at a time at a meeting is that the person speaking really is 'heard' - if people ask questions/voice opinions it disrupts the flow of the meeting.

However, there is nothing to stop you going up to someone afterwards and saying that you enjoyed what they shared, and that you'd like to ask more .

Snorbs - thanks for 'sharing' that....puts it all into perspective, really. Where are WE in all this madness?

SecretSquirrel, thank you for the replies, I do appreciate them immensley, more than you know.

In some ways, I kind have accepted my father's alcholism and have more issues for my mother as I feel she allowed it to happen.

When I was younger and I heard about various kids parents splitting up, I remember wishing mine would!!

A lot of my issues, oversensitivity, short fuse, trust issues, over thinking, being very very serious about things are a result of my parents and my life experiences as a child and young adult.

I spent/spend most of my free time immersing myself in tv - thinking about it, probably my only way of forgetting and not having to deal with reality, suppose I am a bit of dreamer!

I have often thought about therapy and even went as far to look someone up in the yellow pages but thats as far as it went.

Thank you snorbs and secretsquirrel, i have been to another meeting and starting to understand it better, though i am aware it will take time. People took me aside afterwards and were so kind and understanding i was really touched, they also said it took them a while to get it but it was invaluable to them now. If anyone else reading this thread is considering Al anon i urge you to give it a go, i think it's amazing so far. I don't mind the meeting format i just meant i found the online format on stepchat annoying as people are typing in real time so you have long times of just waiting for them to type things out. i just want to go to as many real meetings as i can.

I have had some long, calm conversations with dh about the future, about how his addiction and depression have happened, and crept up on us over the years. he has started counselling this week and been going to meetings, and been prescribed anti depressants. I'm not massively confident he will stay sober for long but he is at least working on his depression. And he's supporting me going to alanon which i find positive as he is acknowledging that i need some help too.

UnYummy-that's really encouraging to hear....

There is a book called 'Living With Sobriety' that your group may have in their bookbox-it's about £3. Anyway, that will give you some valuable pointers in coping with your DH as he is sober for today. Friends of mine found it invaluable because it was like having to get to know their DH's all over again.

Read as much of the Al Anon liturature as you can if you can't get to a meeting. Ask someone who you feel you could get on with to be your sponsor.

Silver-I wanted to cry when I read your post, because had I not done something about getting help for myself when I did, my DD would've grown up into You.....I was only 'lucky' because I met my EH later on in life so I was better informed about where I could get help from. Ironically I had to ring AA who gave me the no. for Al Anon - but as a newly wed 20-something, there is no way I'd've rung AA .

I can understand why your mum acted the way she did - her obsession with him drinking surpassed everything else; she probably tried absolutely everything to get him to stop and ended up at the bottom of the pit with him.

Silver-I wanted to cry when I read your post, because had I not done something about getting help for myself when I did, my DD would've grown up into You.....I was only 'lucky' because I met my EH later on in life so I was better informed about where I could get help from. Ironically I had to ring AA who gave me the no. for Al Anon - but as a newly wed 20-something, there is no way I'd've rung AA .

Ah, I am not all bad. sobs LOL

EH? Please explain.

I am curious about this StepChat? I wonder if Al-Anon would help me or if I should think about therapy to work on my issues?

I do understand what happened. Mother didnt have any strength or any courage.

Silver, I wouldn't say that your mother didn't (just) have strength or courage, more that she was worn down by living in such a mad situation for so long, by starting to accept the unacceptable behaviour and having nothing left for the anyone else in the family.

Have you read the 'Merry Go Round named Denial'? It's on page 13 of this thread (sorry, haven't got hang of linking yet!)

I would say give Al Anon a go, but only when you are ready to. If you do, try to go for 6 weeks before making your mind up if its for you. You can always CAT me for more info about it if you need to.

How are things now, For-the-Best & BrightonGirldownUnder?

How is everyone else?

Hi

how is everyone doing?

hugs to you all x