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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

SUPPORT THREAD FOR PARTNERS OF ADDICTS - PART 2

985 replies

ginnny · 08/05/2009 11:36

I thought I'd start us a new thread since the old one was going strong for over a year and I know a lot of people find it helpful.
DP did go on a bender Monday and Tuesday, which although I wasn't happy about, I understood why. He is lost and can't cope with the grief of losing his Mum.
Since then though he's been great, so once the funeral is over I'm hoping we can put it behind us and get back to normal.
I've suggested bereavement counselling, but he's not convinced.

OP posts:
red37 · 26/12/2009 03:55

Hi everyone

hope everyone has enjoyed there xmas day...well here goes my eventful xmas eve and day...

I invited ex dh over for xmas eve to stay over so we could watch our ds(4) open his presents in the morning

xmas eve he got into a strop, he kept questioning me over our seperation and got moody and punched a box of mince pies(splattered them of course) so I walked into other room(children were in bed)trying totally not to raise to yet another xmas arguement, he eventually calmed so I told him that our seperation is due to his drinking ( which i have repeatadely told him since the split) he came back with the answer that I am not an alcohololic...but dont me he tipped half a bottle of rum down the sink 3 days before.
Talk about things being so frustrating and him not listening...anyhow xmas day arrived everything went ok and no arguements..

Well this was his consumption of alcohol in a 24 hour period

6 cans of stella
1 litre of rum
and a 70cl bottle of red wine

Oh god I could cry...please this consumption is not normal...my heart is breaking for the man I relly love...I cant help him anymore

thanks for reading and hope you all have a good new year x

MrsSawdust · 27/12/2009 22:29

I have namechanged from ineedalifelaundry shongolo you sound really upset. Sorry none of us replied to your post over last few days, I have only just seen it. How did the rest of your week go? Your DH is obviously in denial. If this is starting to affect your children and it doesn't look like he's prepared to change his behaviour, then I think you are right to be seriously considering leaving. There are a few people on this thread who have already done so. None of them seem to regret it. Hopefully one of them will be along soon to offer their support.

Red how did your alanon meeting go? I can't help wondering if a less confrontational way of explaining the separation to your H would be "we've separated because I'm affected by your drinking" This sounds less accusatory and might leave him more open to talk about the problem. Just a thought.

As for me - I went to my second alanon meeting tonight. DH rang me just as I was setting off for home. He was in an absolute rage, saying I was spoiling our sunday night family time, and the problem really isn't that bad, and he knows I think there's a problem and I want to talk about it but surely I talk about it enough on mumsnet (hence me getting paranoid and namechanging, much good may it do me). He had totally calmed down by the time I got home. But I think he might do this every week. Which makes it difficult for me to go because I don't want to upset him.

AttilaTheMeerkat · 27/12/2009 23:31

Mrs Sawdust

No point whatsoever in talking to an alcoholic - they only want to hear the sound of their own voice.

You though cannot save him but you can certainly help your own self. Sod thinking you'll upset him, that thought needs to be rid of asap!!!. Why feel that way, he is certainly not thinking of you here. He has upset you more than enough already and by going to Al-anon you are taking a stand for your own self.

You've ended up going to these meetings precisely because of his behaviour and all the other problems pertaining to his alcoholism. Him saying the problem is not that bad is frankly crap and you know it as well. It further proves how selfish he actually is - alcoholics and their selfishness go hand in hand.

Do not let yourself be manipulated or guilted into not going to these meetings. You need to go there for your own sake; it is vital you have real life support yoo.

AttilaTheMeerkat · 27/12/2009 23:39

shongololo

You cannot save or rescue your alcoholic H from himself but you can save your own selves here.

You have a choice ultimately re your alcoholic H - your son does not. Where is your own rock bottom, how much further have you to fall?. You have fallen a long way already because of your H, you sound deeply unhappy. He has dragged you and by turn your son down with him. This is no life for you and your son to be witness to. Children who grow up in a home where one parent is an alcoholic brings them their own set of problems particularly as adults with forming relationships etc. It will do your son no favours at all to grow up in such a home particularly as he has now started to notice his Dad's drinking behaviours.

There are no guarantees here; your H could lose everything and still choose to drink. Your H may never have an epiphany and decide for his own self that he needs to tackle the many issues surrounding his alcoholism.

You need to remember the 3cs

You did not cause this
You cannot cure it
You cannot control it

MeltedTreeChocolates · 28/12/2009 15:15

The one thing i never thought he would do - he took all the money i had in the account out on christmas day (£60)

I feel sick!

MrsSawdust · 28/12/2009 21:36

Is he still living with you melted? Do you know where the £60 has gone? (or is the answer to that completely obvious)

You need some RL support, especially if you're in financial difficulties. Do you have family around you who know what's going on and can help you through this?

secretsquirrel1 · 28/12/2009 22:21

Shongolo - I hope that things have calmed down a bit now.

Although it is obvious to everyone else how much the drink is affecting him, there is absolutely no point in emphasising that fact to the alcoholic. It may make you feel better but it really is futile - please please don't react in this way to whatever your DC's are saying, however true it is.

How old are your DC's? If they are 12-17 they could go to Al Ateen.

The alcoholic feels bad enough about themselves; if you keep going on about it, they will feel even more worthless, and that is the perfect excuse for them to drink even more

Don't ever give them a 'choice' - that is completely futile too, as is continually issuing ultimatums. An alcoholic will always choose alcohol above and beyond everything. it has to be the alcoholic who decides when they want help. Whatever we do or say will not make any difference. Whatever happens will not make any difference.....for example:

My EH has been in hospital with pancreatitis, broken bones, lost his job, lost his brother (died suddenly aged only 40), and has lost us - we are now divorced..... AND HE STILL DRINKS

I used to think....what will it take this time to make him stop drinking? That was all I could think about....I was consumed with worrying about what it would take for him to stop. But I learnt that I was wasting my time - because whilst I focussed all my thoughts on him, my DD was being neglected, and my life had stopped. I got so scared of going out anywhere other than work - how convenient was that for the alcoholic? Yet at the same time, I grew to loathe and hate him for what he was doing to us.

Al Anon helped me big time for that first difficult year, when I was still married and my life was complete shit:

I faced up to the fact that I was enabling the alcoholic by continuing to behave in the mad way that I was behaving - by 'keeping up appearances', by giving him money, by nagging, arguing and pleading for him to stop drinking.

I started to realise that it was ok to start having a life of my own again, that the world was not going to end once I let go and stopped being responsible for the alcoholic.

I learnt to distinguish the 'alcoholic behaviour' to that of being relatively 'sober'. Once I could understand that, I could avoid all the pitfalls that you have all spoken of - I could get myself & DD out of harms way when he was drunk & belligerent.

Red - I echo what Mrs S. says about "being affected by his drinking habits" - you are putting the emphasis on the behaviour and not him.

Mrs S. don't be fretting & projecting about what may never happen as regards your going to meetings, don't engage into any dialogue about what he perceives as your unreasonable behaviour. What a bloody cheek! Of course he doesn't want you to go, of course he's going to get stroppy and pathetic. He sees his major support walking away. You must keep going back - your changed attitude will make life a lot easier for all of you, especially you .

ItsGraceAgain · 29/12/2009 03:01

God. I couldn't read all the posts in this thread - it's so painful

My name is [Grace] and I'm an alcoholic, officially. This is going to be an essay! Skip if you're not interested.

The facts are: I've done my 28 days, plus 8 months 'clean' (including Xmas, new year, birthday & hen weekend, yay!) I want to write some of the things I learned from this experience, but first I'd best clarify that I'm no longer sober:-

I drink - not every day, but pretty much, and definitely more than the govt recommends. I had a liver & kidney scan last week (all okay), I don't suffer withdrawal when not drinking and have never caused or attracted trouble because of alcohol. I'm just lucky, I have the british peasant constitution ;)

Now onto a few of my rehab revelations.

Most obviously, it's well worth spending a while off the booze - for the simple reason that, for drinkers like me (maybe your 6-beers-a-night guy), it takes the experience to prove there is absolutely no difference between a night out sober and a night out drunk ... except for the fact you notice how everybody starts repeating themselves!

When I went into the Priory (posh rehab, me!), I had a bit of trouble accepting meals without wine. They had all sorts of juices - and I like to drink a swamp of water every day, anyway - but the habit of wine with lunch & dinner was so ingrained, I felt positively bereft without it.

A lasting benefit of breaking the habit has been that - although I still miss wine at dinner if there is none - it's no longer an essential. And I don't drink at lunchtime these days. If I hadn't had to get used to it, I would never have realised meals are OK without wine (and my scans might not have been clean).

The habit creeps up on you sneakily; you don't realise it's "made you believe" it's necessary until you try life without it. For drinker like me, life without it is just fine. A little bit duller, perhaps, but no major trauma. It's worth doing once in a while, because none of us like to think we've lost our free will ... which is why I picked it up again, but now it's on my terms ;)

My recovery 'classmates' and their families, however, were a real eye-opener in ways I can't begin to describe without crashing MN's server!! There were so many desperate co-dependencies going on there, it was heartbreaking. Some have made it through to sparkly, dependency-free happiness ... but they are few

Lots of addicts use because there is something inside themselves they don't know how to face - applies to me, too, I was just lucky my Dad died at the time when I had other problems and a clever doctor.

Lots of addicts' partners over-empathise with their addict. This became screamingly obvious in the psychological hothouse of rehab, but the partners themselves rarely saw it: in a way, the partners are avoiding their own "don't want to look" problems by adopting their roles as co-addict. It's an addiction in itself, if you like.

If you're "addicted" to your partner's addiction, complain all you like but you're just acting out. Revisit Al-Anon and re-read the detachment page. Find the courage - and the help - to work on your own issues; it's surprising how your rehabilitation will benefit everyone around you (the "therapee miracle", and perfectly logical once you get started).

An addict who changes personality when drunk/high/stoned is NOT a stable personality and, if they ever manage to get clean, you'd better be prepared for a very bumpy ride as their horrific issues start to surface. (That's definitely not Priory credo, btw! It's my observation.)

The horrific issues are NEVER as bad as "the substance" led you to believe. Referring to a drink, a pill, a smoke as if it had an evil personality sounds very weird - but it's a neat shorthand for the effect addiction has on the brain, and it works fine. The "stuff" gently leads you to believe you will turn into a gibbering fuckwit if you don't carry on using. In fact, the worst it can do is hurt you for a few weeks. After that, you will not be a gibbering fuckwit - you'll feel a bit like you've stepped into a cold room with insufficient clothing, but that's the start of recovery. Congratulations!

People keep saying you can't address your ishoos until you're clean. This is, essentially, true. But no decent therapist will refuse to see you while you're still using. It's part of their job to encourage you to come in "cold" after a few weeks (it's part of your job to get there "cold"!)

Co-dependents usually know they are; we just don't like to think about it. Are you the caring one? Is it "always you" who keeps the family together; covers up bad behaviour for your siblings & friends; can't imagine a life without being "needed"? Get thee to a therapist. Fast.

Again and again: revisit Al-Anon, all the other Anons, and every co-dependency website! Actually, find the meetings and go there in person. Encourage your kids to go to Al-ATeen or whatever it's called these days. This stuff DOES matter!!

The solution to every problem lies within ourselves. It's as logical as any cold place, but bears much repeating. You cannot beat "the monster" because there isn't one. There are only unhelpful patterns, and you can change those.

Apologies to everyone I've bored and/or irritated! And I hope I've shed some light, on something, for one reader here

Grace

Forthebest · 29/12/2009 11:47

Hello,
I thought I would post here.
I have started another thread on my OH but I think here might be where I am suited.
My OH is a cannabis/skunk addict.
He has smoked it every day, all day for about 10 years. He has smoked it for longer but really really badly in the last 5 years or so.
He was made redundant 7 years ago and hasnt worked since. He says he is too ill.
he refuses to admit he has a problem. He gets very angry when I suggest it IS a problem. he only smokes very strong skunk and "needs " it to sleep.
He used to spend a lot of money on it until I refused to give it to him. He now doesnt have to spend the money :0(

I truly am angry with myself. I am an enabler. I have helped him create this lifestyle. I have given in when he says I shouldnt go out and I have made his paranoia worse.

He tries to convince me that smoking is natural. That lots of people, successful people do it. That he needs it becasue of the constant pains in his body that he has.
That the skunk hype is just that, hype. That I am overreacting. That alcohol is far worse. He tells me that stoned people just chill whereas drunk people get violent.

I used to have the odd spliff about 10 years ago pre children so he says I cant complain as I knew what he was like when I had kids with him and complaining about it now makes me cruel.

I am tired. SO tired of it all. I hate the way he is. I hate the way my house smells. He smokes it in the bak garden ( always ) but sometimes it drifts in. I hate that it is IN my house in the forst place and that we could get raided by the police any minute !!

I HATE IT AND I HATE MY LIFE !! I HATE THAT SOMETHING IN ME WONT LET ME QUIT !!!

Forthebest · 29/12/2009 14:04

Well he has just broken our golden rule.
I can't even say I am surprised.

I am at work today, I have been called in as the hospital is short staffed.

He has the DC to look after while I am at work. Usually they would go to a kids club in the summer ( that I pay for ) but they dont run at xmas.

The rule is that he never, ever smokes while he has sole responsibility of the dc. He waits until I come home. He has always stuck to this but lately its been changing. he waits till I am round the corner, then it was he waits till I was on the bus. Now he has just rung me to tell me he is going to have one in the back garden. I am not due home till 4:30 !! He has told me so that he cant be accused of hiding it and of course there is nothing I can do about as I am here so in effect, I am giving permission !!
When I objected he said " oh its only one its not like its going to do anything, and anyway I am going to play on the Wii afterwards !! "

So now its done and I dont know what to do ! he has broken the rule. If I do nothing my rules and opinions mean nothing !

ItsGraceAgain · 29/12/2009 15:12

Forthebest, I'm so sorry to hear that. Skunk is evil stuff and you're right, it does cause paranoia ... which, surprise, surprise, is eased by smoking a spliff.

It's probably a stupid question, but would it be at all possible to get him to switch back to 'normal' (natural) weed? Maybe smoke it during the day, with skunk later on to "help him sleep"?

As crazy as this sounds, you might find it eases your life to be REALLY LOVELY to him, as long as he's not endangering your kids ... yes, it's another form of enablement but at least you're not feeding the paranoia that way

Forthebest · 29/12/2009 15:23

No he wont smoke " normal " weed. he says it doesnt ease his pains, does nothing etc. he must be permanantly stoned as he smokes 8 - 10 a day i guess.

I have tried being really nice to him and letting things go on, including supporting him financially for 7 years now. Its getting worse though, not better.

worriedaboutnephew · 29/12/2009 21:13

Hello
Not sure if I should have started a different thread or whether it would be ok for me to ask for your advice here? Ironically I recognise several of your names, and have talked with some of you before, but I have name-changed for this.

I am the sister-in-law of an alcoholic. But I am very worried about my teenage nephew at the moment. His schoolwork is now being affected, and he is becoming withdrawn. I am really concerned about him.
My SIL finally two days ago admitted she has a problem with drink, tried to admit herself to get detoxed but they had no available places, so is now going to start out-patient help from next week.

But my concern is for my nephew, he has been told about al-teen but does not want to go. He does not want to talk about it. But he is the one who regularly calls his dad or grandparents for help when his mum starts drinking.

What can we do to help my nephew and his siblings?

MrsSawdust · 29/12/2009 22:18

forthebest you sound deeply unhappy and your dh is in massive denial. Is his 'illness' real? Has he seen his GP about these pains in his body? I'm also trying to understand why you say that he doesn't have to pay for his skunk now - is he dealing? If so, he is exposing you and your dc to real danger ... Not just from a police raid (in your shoes I think would be relieved if the police did intervene) but from other drug users. He isn't about to change his mind about taking drugs. His whole lifestyle is about smoking drugs, to the point where he hasnt even had a job for seven years. He will use any excuse to continue this lifestyle and allows you to hold everything else together so that he can continue. And he somehow justifies all this to himself and to you.
You need to get yourself and your children out of this situation. He is endangering them by carrying out illegal activities in their home and by using illegal drugs whilst in sole charge of them. He is using you to hold together the house / family / finances to enable his lifestyle.
He won't stop using for you. He will choose drugs over you.
You need to choose life over him.
Sorry if I sound like a hypocrite. I'm married to an alcoholic but he knows he's an alcoholic, only drinks in the evenings, has a job, and has never been in sole charge of our dd drunk. My situation is difficult but yours sounds truly awful.

worriedaboutnephew I don't know what to suggest if your nephew refuses to go to alateen, as this really would be the best source if support for him right now. Can they stay with another family member for a while until their mum begins her recovery? At least she has asked for help. I really hope she gets good support. Your nephew is lucky to have such a concerned auntie.

ItsGraceAgain · 29/12/2009 22:44

What a brilliant post, MrsSawdust. worriedaboutnephew - your nephew seems to be shouldering responsibility for his mum, which is one of the more damaging effects of addiction on children I'm wondering if he doesn't want to go to alateen because it would mean admitting there's a problem he can't cope with?

Depending on how his mum gets on with her treatment, she may invite him to meetings, which would be good (as she'd then be starting to take responsibility) but he'd still find that terribly hard if he hasn't yet admitted the problem to himself.

Are there any counsellors at his school, who could help with it? Some schools have really well-trained counselling staff. This is where churches can come in handy, too, if they're a church-going family. You can also get leaflets & stuff from NACOA (0800 3583456).

You're a nice aunty I wish him & his Mum the very best f luck.

Ready4anothercoffee · 30/12/2009 04:58

Wow, thank you Grace, that was really interesting! I often thought that stbxh drank to bury the crap within.

melted, how are you now? Have you managed to get by ok? Please please take this as a warning to sort out a bank acc for just you, if he queries it just tell him that you need to know you have money to feed the dcs. Fwiw, i did this when with my dh. It got to the point where I couldn't have any real amount of money on me. It's a first step to taking control of your life.

Ready4anothercoffee · 30/12/2009 04:58

Wow, thank you Grace, that was really interesting! I often thought that stbxh drank to bury the crap within.

melted, how are you now? Have you managed to get by ok? Please please take this as a warning to sort out a bank acc for just you, if he queries it just tell him that you need to know you have money to feed the dcs. Fwiw, i did this when with my dh. It got to the point where I couldn't have any real amount of money on me. It's a first step to taking control of your life.

secretsquirrel1 · 30/12/2009 07:47

Hiya Ready-I'm on a Nightshift that's why I'm up early! You sound so well-lovely to hear from you.

Grace-Thank you so much for your thought provoking post.

Through Alanon, I have come to understand why I am the way I am - how I got into the mess of being with an alcoholic by being one of 2 typical characters that the alcoholic hits on; I was not a doormat, but I was extremely strong & capable which meant holding it altogether and spinning those plates for far too long....which is typical enabling behaviour on my part. I assumed all his responsibilities then resented him for it.

Worried-there must be someone at your nephews school that he could talk to. Is there a family liason worker/(not sure if that's the right term) based there? The main problem is that he probably feels enormously disloyal to even be thinking about saying anything to anyone and as Grace says, he is assuming the responsibility which is Not his job. Can one of you get some Alateen literature for him? He needs to know that there will be others there who will truly understand what he is going through. If you have a chance, please watch the programme that was on BBC3 on Dec. 3rd called 'Brought Up By Booze' - very hard hitting but it explains why children of alcoholics behave as they do.

For the Best- please please heed what Grace has said. It sounds like he no longer has any boundaries which is very dangerous. Someone else may get in there first and they will have a duty of care to your DC's and will not hesitate to get SS's involved. Please please protect yourself & your DC's whilst you still can. Now.

Ready4anothercoffee · 30/12/2009 10:12

Forthebest +lease please heed all of us when we ay h has lost all boundaries. Please don't put your dc in danger. I live every day with the guilt that if I had left earlier my dd1 would not have been thrown. So many ifs in my story. If you go out to work do as ss did and always use a childminder. Womens aid have been fantastic to me, i am still in a refuge, waiting to be housed. Worth ringing them for advice. Take care

ItsGraceAgain · 30/12/2009 11:44

Thank you for your feedback

Secret Squirrel, congrats on figuring yourself out! It's nice to think you'll be using your talents to enhance your life now, instead of propping up an addiction (a thankless task if ever there was one).

Forthebest, how about going to an NA meeting? They're very nice. You could ask the members for a bit of advice & support, they won't mind at all. Good luck!

MeltedTreeChocolates · 30/12/2009 13:39

In answer to the q's.... He isn't here with me anymore... i gave him his last chance and he blew it...

I will be sorting out an account for just myself that he will have no access to and fortunately i have a savings account that i normally transfer all my money into untill bills are due (he cant get to that account but I cant have any direct debits tied to it etc so it is only of so much use)... I just hadnt realised the money that he stole was coming in when it did... he got there first.

Don't even know how to reply to most of the posts on here. I think I am living in a dream world half the time and cant believe others are living it too.

Ready4anothercoffee · 30/12/2009 15:59

Melted, take a deep breath, and think baby steps. Keep talking on here too, it's agood sounding board.

Well done getting him out, have you begun steps to keep him out?

It is an odd existance, like a double life. You will get through it.

MeltedTreeChocolates · 30/12/2009 23:15

Steps to keep him out? What do you mean?

He is in a totally different place to me now. Far FAR away and an expensive journey. Dont think he will try and come back. Says he wants to go to a rebah thing for a year... we will see.

Anyway he has no key, no one to stay with around here, I am sis of a copper who knows situation, what other steps would I need to take?

secretsquirrel1 · 31/12/2009 06:53

Melted - do you think you may be at risk of him coming back and causing aggro? You are lucky to have a Copper in your family. I told our police all about my EH in case he really lost it one day - then they had a profile on record; luckily I never had to call them but it was 'insurance' for me.

I had to arrange finances & additional childcare before filing for divorce - this is because I couldn't suddenly be doing weekend/nights shifts and it being ok for him to look after DD! I told my boss (need to know basis only) because I needed to be sure that it was ok to change my work patterns. I had to put DDs safety first.

I made sure that there was a new account for all the D. Debits to come out of. This was easy to arrange 'cos by this stage he wasn't working so any money that was coming in was from me. I stupidly left £900 in our joint account to service our overdraft whilst waiting for the divorce to come through - the bastard withdrew it, after saying that he wouldn't touch it because he knew that it was needed . Don't fall for any flannel - once they are in a blackout, all reason is gone.

Get the best legal representative you can afford. Be prepared for a very very long wait for the divorce to come through - I had to wait 16 long f...... months because he prevaricated all the way. He didn't want us to end 'cos his cosy existence was about to vanish. Be prepared to have to pay out as well - though luckily the house value has now gone back up enough to cover what I had to pay out .

Be prepared for feeling extremely angry, bitter and frustrated at what you no longer have - and that he will charm some other woman to pick up where you left off....let it go. You really are going to be so much better off (personally/spiritually) out of it.

It will be a very long twisty tunnel but there will be light at the end - I am proof of that.

MrsSawdust · 31/12/2009 11:28

I have just posted this on a different thread and wondered what you wise people over here think:

"I bought it for him on this occasion, yes. I don't normally. Not sure why I did it really. I've been going to alanon and learning that I can't control his drinking, so at the moment I am simply not engaging in any conversation about alcohol with him at all. To refuse to buy it would have been controlling, futile and pointless because it would have sparked a debate (which I am avoiding) and he would have gone and bought it himself anyway. I don't know if this was the right thing to do. I hated buying it but I am making a massive effort not to argue with him about it either.

He doesn't usually ask me to get it tbh, but I happened to be going to the supermarket where he normally buys it.

I'm sure I was wrong to buy it but I didn't know how else to avoid the debate."

So, was I wrong to buy the wine for my DH? If I was, what should I have done to avoid engaging with him about it?

Thanks.

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