Emotional Abuse - can we talk abou t it and what it entails?

[Janos]

If we already have a thread on this then I apologise for bringing it all up again. Perhaps someone can let me know and if so I'll let the thread die quietly!

I just thought it would be helpful to talk about it, and what constitutes it so people who are in an emotionally abusive relationship could recognise what is going on as it can be so insidious and nasty, and more difficult to identify.

This is not for one moment to denigrate or draw attention away from physical or sexual abuse btw.

The best thing that I ever did was to leave my toxic husband. He was emotionally and physically abusive, but its the emotional stuff that really hurts the most as it chips away at your soul.

It was also psychological stuff, turning my alarm clock off if I had an important meeting then hiding all the other clocks so I feared falling asleep in case I didn't wake in time (he hated me working)

Waiting until I was asleep then pulling the covers of and opening the windows. It has taken me years to recover and took all my courage to leave. I took nothing but one suitcase and a pile of debts but I have never looked back and am now happily married to the most wonderful man.

Hi.... I've posted on here before regarding the same situation.. emotional abuse. We need to realize what is going on, BEFORE it's too late, b/c it does drain you.... it sucks the life out of you, and then you haven't the energy left to defend yourself. My dh wouldn't let me talk to my mom for over a year, maybe two! He is nasty to my sister, and anyone else who comes over, so that they feel UNCOMFORTABLE while here, and then don't visit very often. I only see my mom now about once every 4 months. We went out tonight for drinks, and he talked down to me the entire time... I am so used to getting sympathetic looks by the server, that it almost is normal now. I am 'really' hoping that he will leave soon, because we are no longer together, but he never quite believes it. I REALLY,wish the best for all of you going through the same thing... it IS abuse, and it is just as painful as physcial abuse... just emotionally painful as opposed to physically painful. And please... I am not minimizing physical abuse.. that is absolutely horrible.

psych101, are you still in the relationship? The thing is, these men, and I am shocked how similar they are! They do not get any better, they get worse. I was like a shell by the time I left, but I have never looked back.

Hi Everyone,
This is my first time here (gosh my hearts pounding) I've been reading and learning for a few weeks now. What a great thing is MN.
This thread has helped me to recognise things DH does. and I so Love the direct, stand-up-for-yourself, comments from the regular,
more experienced ladies.
Just wanted to say I have ordered the book that everyone recommends - Lundy Bancrofts Why does he do that.
In my case dh is a man of few words but what he does say if just as damaging. Just a little bit here and there and then leaves my overactive mind to finish the job off for him! Death of a thousand cuts is spot on. I am already dead, shut down, no expectations and can't picture a light at the end. I need the money from our house to be able to get another but in this climate there might not be enough to get a little house with no mortgage. (Too old me).
Cant get on here regularly but send loving thoughts to everyone here.

good for you madamekoto!!! I too feel like a shell some days.....and yes, still in the relationship... and size6, i wish you all the best, do you have a confidant near where you live?? it can be very helpful, as I do have a neighbour, that I can sort of confide in a little, which is better than nothing! sending love right back at you..

Welcome size6feet. Why can't you get on regularly - would you like to more but have no regular internet access? Maybe use the library...

Sounds like you are facing up to leaving your husband, is that right?

Courage! we are all here for you

Stuff like this should be taught in schools, it really should.

Vezzie's alternative curriculum:

Basic personal finance (tax, savings, mortgages, etc)
Basic signing
Household maintenance and troubleshooting
Cheap creative cooking with flexible ingredients
Physical and mental health and first aid
Relationships and emotional health: signs of trouble and how to deal with them

I suppose you might say that that is what your parents are supposed to be teaching you, but there is no harm in back-up is there?

I confided in no one untill the end, they have an odd way of making you protect them, right? When I eventually opened up to my best friend, who I was allowed to see about once a year, it all came gushing out and within 2 months I had left.

I had a catalyst as he had become so unstable I feared for my life. I remember getting home once to find my clothes laid out over the floor and he had made a pile of any anomaly hairs for me to explain After I left was hell, he was vile, but the freedom I felt was amazing. It takes you years to get yourself back but my goodness you become a strong person.

I am still repaying some debts which he left me with, but I am so very happy. I wish you all the luck in the world psych101 and I know you will not be in this situation for ever. If you can keep a diary of the abuse, so long as you can hide it! When I was in the relationship I began to believe it was normal, I started to keep a diary and it made me realise it was not. Your thoughts and feelings can often betray you but the written word cannot.

Vezzie, totally agree with your alternate curriculum and size6feet, wish you all the best.

Hi, thank you psych101 for welcoming me to the fold. I do have a friend in RL that I can talk to. She listens and supports me.

Hi Vezzie, I cant get on too often due to working and also the computer's in lounge/diner where DH is always sitting. He's always 'watching' or listening in. I've taken down a couple of mirrors when I realised he was preferring to watch me indirectly.
Actually, most of what he does is subversive - he's not able to be up-front with most things.

I get to hear of stuff months later and this makes me feel insecure as to why he wouldn't say. Stuff like his oldest friend has worked with him since last november and he just now mentioned it and says he told me ages ago - I must have forgotten. My neurotic brain thinks he got his mate in to help cover up his movements.

Also when he goes out for a day doing his 'hobby' he never tells me in advance. Why not? I could enjoy a day relaxing on my own at home. When he is out I feel the pressure lift from me.

I (in fairness we) never know when he's in or out. He sits watching that bloody tv till he gets a callout to a job - day and night. In the past he has told me about other workers who are playing around, being unfaithful to their partners. When you get jobs given by mobile phone you can actually be anywhere and who will know how long a job takes? Of course he could be anywhere and up to anything. I dont trust him. How can I switch my head off?
Sorry to ramble on on this thread.

Size6Feet, I do sympathise, it is very difficult to relax when you cant trust them and they do nothing to help this.
When my ex wanted to come back to me I said I wanted to monitor his texts. He refused and said he wouldnt be tagged. My take is that if he was genuine he would bend over backwards to be accomodating in helping me trust him.
I now realise that I cant trust a single thing he says and that's really hard. He looks and sounds like the man I fell in love with but thats all. That man was a mask to hide his real (abusive) self.
They never do anything which might benefit us (like giving us advance notice of something) because that would mean giving up control - and they are ALL about control.

Hi, God I am so scared writing this,as I have been thinking about asking for opinions for a while, but today found this thread. My DH was lovely the first 4 years we were together/married but as soon as we had DD, it was like some switch went off in his head. We had a huge fight 2 weeks after she was born, when I was v hormonal and both finding parenthood really hard, during which he punched me. He cried for ages and said he was sorry and it hasn't happened since although he claims not to remember it(2.5 yrs ago) but he has since become really verbally nasty, maybe every couple of months. If we have an argument he blows up and calls me a c, or a fat , which he knows I hate, calls me mad (I have a history of depression) and my family mad, threatened a couple of times that if I left he would do everything in his power to stop me getting custody and would use my mental health history against me (I have been fine for 6 years now), said that he understands why my ex was violent to me and on one memorable occasion said he would kill himself but kill me first becuase I was worthless. More worryingly, although he is generally a great dad, does his share of childcare and housework and adores DD, he can't (won't?) cope with DS (who is 1) and when he cries in the night or wakes him up has got really nasty with him and twice called him a fing little s. I asked him to go to relate (he won't). Thing is, in between these events he is lovely, and he makes me feel like I am being unreasonable by "not putting the past behind me". I'm just not sure how often I can keep putting these things in the past. I am so consumed with guilt and stupidity for getting myself in this situation twice, and feel like i am losing my ability to judge whether this situation is okay or not. I have decided to keep a diary from now on, so if it happens again I will have a record of it, but really don't know what to do. Sorry.

Cloudbase, that kind of behaviour and name calling absolutely isn't on, although I think you know already that it isn't.

A common pattern of EA seems to be rewriting history and making you feel mad for recalling things they claim haven't happened. Keeping a diary sounds like a very good idea, but I'd keep it totally secret from him. I'd be very concerned over his behaviour towards your ds in particular, it sounds as though he has a nasty temper (your H, not your ds!) and if he's been violent in the past, there's no guarantee that he won't be again.

Can you seek advice or counselling on your own? Do you have anyone you can talk to about this or does everyone think he's wonderful?

Cloudbase, no "lovely" behaviour makes up for his appalling treatment of you. You are right to keep a diary, I do this and it not only helps you remember what happened but how it makes you feel.

My mum was in an abusive (emotional and physical) relationship with stepfather when I was a kid, and it's fascinating to me to see the commonalities between all your experiences and hers.

Stepfather would also call mum mad as a way of knocking her self-confidence, getting her to doubt her own experience. And of course his controlling, abusive behaviour made her behave pretty crazily. I witnessed several breakdowns and irrational outbursts, but they were all pretty much a result of his conditoning her to abuse and headfucking her.

Particularly memorable was the journey to the ferry in France with my 3 yo DB. He got lost, blamed it on mum and they had a blazing row in the front seats. I remember mum clutching at the headrest just wailing from the barrage of emotional abuse. Hideous.

He would also pretend things hadn't happened. After all, it's so much easier than facing the truth and apologising like a grown-up, isn't it? She was generally just happy to get a break from the harrassment and so wouldn't try to get him to acknowledge what he was doing, just the way he liked it. Kept in her place, colluding with his abuse.

Cloudbase, it sounds to me like your partner is jealous of the attention your kids are getting. The biggest indicator of that to me is that you said he was fine until your DD was born.

Just remember that abusive men have the emotional intelligence of toddlers, hence all the rages and tantrums. He probably is more hostile to your DS because a) he's a male and therefore displacing his position as most important man in your life and b) he's younger and needs more attention from you which (in his toddler mind) = less attention to your partner.

What concerns me about that is if he decided to scapegoat your son, not an uncommon situation in abusive families, your son could end up bearing a lot of abuse too. I was scapegoat in my abusive family, let me assure you- it's hell.

Honestly Cloudbase, your partner rings a lot of bells for me, sounds like my stepfather. Please start working towards leaving him, for your kids psychological health, if not yours. I'm sure he has days where he is a model father, but he is failing in a very crucial measure- showing the mother of his children loving respect. Do you want your DD to grow up thinking that it's OK for men to treat her like your partner treats you? Do you want your DS becoming an abuser because that's how he learned women should be treated? The cycle of violence really happens (stepfather's dad was violent), but you can stop it. Take small steps to work up to leaving, start with a call to women's aid now- 0808 2000 247

Wow.... there is so much I want to add right now!! We must all realize that it is NOT OKAY to feel this way..! (sorry for the time delay in replying.. I am 7 hours behind, on the pacific coast. Thank-you madadamekoto, I will keep a diary, I did start one, but then..you know how it is... with children! Thanks God you got out, b/c that was a VERY disturbing situation you were in!!! I can't imagine the scrutiny that you were under... my situation isn't quite that bad, yet.

Size6, I've been there before with the 'trust' thing, and it's the worst feeling ever... the only way I can think of changing that way of thinking / feeling, is to be more confident in yourself first.. yes, that's DIFFICULT when you are feeling so beaten down by dh. I'm not untrusting of my H. but, that's b/c now I just don't care..!! Is there an in-between?? How do we go from mistrusting, all the way to 'almost' hating?? My suggestion is: Try.. really try.. to take a little time for yourself, whether it be reading, or a walk, a visit to the gym? Hitting the local cafe for a tea or coffee?? It will make A WORLD OF DIFFERENCE. It did for me. And remember, you are YOUR OWN PERSON, and he is just someone in your life. At the beginning of my marriage, almost 11 years ago, I made the mistake of believing that he was me, and I was him...but we are seperate people, and you must love yourself first, and then you can give more to your children : )

Hi Coudbase,.. I am SO glad you wrote here then, because I hope that all our support will make you feel a little bit stronger??

Hitting you 2 weeks after baby was born is his way of keeping you in line. He KNOWS you are weak and emotional!! For Goodness sakes, you've just had a child, !!
(my h. did the same to me, but he didn't hit, he just jumped ontop of me while I was holding our 5-week old daughter and threatened me with his fist in my face, still while holding our 5 week old daughter.. he hasn't done it since.. but it was his way of holding control.

Namecalling is ABUSE, (my husband told me if I get fat like my mother he will leave me)

Using anything(such as mental history) is ABUSE - he's putting you down, so you feel inadequate of looking after children yourself, and this is his way of control over you. (my dh did the same, always putting down my family b/c of mental health history) DON'T FALL FOR THIS ONE, you are able to look after child / children!!!

Now, I'm not a professional but my advice maybe (if possible) to approach him and tell him how you feel, and that it MUST change or you'll be forced to leave b/c it's not a good situation for your children to be raised in. Is it possible for him to seek counselling??? Is it possible for you to ask?? I agree, that if you start to feel desperate, please please call women's aid, that is why they are there.. EVEN JUST TO TALK... I know I've wanted to before, but I'm pretty mentally strong, and now my H. is wanting to leave me, b/c I stand up for myself now, and I won't back down. He'll leave now for sure, because he's an ABUSER.

Do you know, just putting things down here on this thread, and seeing it in black and white is a brave step for all of us. Once its written its our first step in the right direction. Taking action, little steps. The more I read the more goes in to be processed in my head.

Psych101 It sounds like you are a little further along the path of recovery? as you say you are mentally strong now and that you no longer care what he comes out with.

I will do some of the things suggested to build my confidence. I can see I need to change my attitude too - not so much of the wimp and a bit more......? Well, I'll wait for the Lundy Bancroft book to come.

Welcome to Cloudbase. My 1stH physically abused me and my 3DS. He was a bit of a caveman, as your H seems to be. Having DS's brought out a harder, cruel side to him where a DD might have provided a chance to be softer. They were all affected by it but none of them have followed their fathers path and have or have had loving, caring relationships.
Must to bed!

"to approach him and tell him how you feel, and that it MUST change or you'll be forced to leave b/c it's not a good situation for your children to be raised in. Is it possible for him to seek counselling???"

There's a worrying trend in this thread. This trend is abusee's thinking that their abusers will change with just "a little help". Or that they can lay down ultimatums and the abuser will change.

It is fairly hotly debated whether or not counselling does anything other than create a more efficient abuser, if I were in your positions I wouldn't roll the dice.

Ultimatums will not work, they require your abuser to surrender control to you, by aquiescing to your demands. That is not going to happen. Think about it.

"They were all affected by it but none of them have followed their fathers path and have or have had loving, caring relationships."

Glad to hear it. My older brother and I were lucky enough to learn from our parent's mistakes. Probably because we despised stepfather so much we rejected everything he stood for and as a result we are both in happy, healthy relationships.

But we were lucky. He was our STEPfather. There was no genetic link, so I think it was a lot easier to reject his legacy.

If the person treating your mum like shit is your father, it's going to be impossible for your kids not to feel split down the middle at best. If you're lucky they'll see he's abusive then reject him and his abuse, but if you're very UNlucky your kids will identify with daddy and that's when the cycle continues. You cannot guess which way it's going to go, you cannot guarantee that growing up in such a household wont lead to psychological problems. DB and I have happy relationships, but we're both depressed and have anxiety disorders. Again, in your positions I wouldn't want to roll the dice.

There was a recent article in the Guardian talking about the role of the stress hormone cortisol in psychiatric illness and the way early life and childhood can set your levels of cortisol too high or too low and that in turn affects your mental health. I read this paragraph-

"In studies of families with exposure to parental violence, threats of abandonment and in which attempts by the child to express affection are rejected, children's cortisol levels are sky high. Sadly, adoption and good quality care does not completely normalise the levels even years later."

And I thought, that's me.

Don't let this happen to your kids.

There's only one sure thing for all you women in abusive relationships- leaving will improve your and your kids lives immeseaurably. Nothing else.

Helloo...

Just popping in to say hello, I have managed to get online. Have been moved out for just over a week and it's been.. well, interesting to say the least. Me and XP have been continuing to get on well, and so that's been much better than I've been expecting. I think the distance and me not being dependent on him makes it a lot easier to talk about emotive issues, I don't take any shit from him because I don't have to now (if that makes sense!)

I am thinking about whether we can be together or not in the future, because I really miss him and I think DS does too. But I'm not sure at this stage, and it's WONDERFUL not not have to muddle on anyway, while I think about it all. I am safe here, he is there, and he can't control me or use the imbalance of power to make my life tense and miserable.

So, feeling more settled and hopefully in time it will be clearer what to do, if we could ever get on or if it is fecked beyond repair. I wanted to give you an update in case anyone was wondering. Sorry to post and run, I haven't caught up with this thread, but DS is crying upstairs and needs feeding

Strength to you all x

Hi CheerfulVicky, thanks for the update, I'm new here though, not sure of your past, but if you left abuse,... please don't start missing him..... try and remember the bad stuff as well as the good stuff.. again, I don't really know your situation, but I just know from experience that whenever I tell H. that it's over for good, 2 days later I start missing him like crazy. Yes, Size6, I am feeling good days and not so good days, it all depends on him, unfortunately, of course, he'd say the same thing to me!

Dizietsma, you're right about the ultimatum thing, true,(now that you mention it...) my H. really doesn't like it much at all, but it forces him to up and leave.. and it 'really' has to be used at your own discretion of course.. we don't really know how severe cloudbase's situation is, and of course confrontation, as you mentioned should definitely be used with caution. Unfortunate isn't it???

Oh, CheerfulVicky... I forgot to say.... GOOD FOR YOU!!! You did a very, VERY strong thing by leaving... wow, I really admire the strength it must have taken.! Sorry for not mentioning that in my last post.... I'm very new at this 'thread' thing.. Keep positive

Hi, have read most of the thread with mixed feelings. and crying for some of the experiences are so familiar to me (with xp not current dh). However it is comforting to see you drawing strength from each other.

I didn't have dc with my xp. I did have a mc however. I had a lot of complications but xp was too busy to come to the hospital (via 999 ambulance at 3am) with me. He was also too busy resting to come and see me the next day...

I have since found out that he did have a dc with his new partner. He was again too busy to attend the birth (as planned) reportedly his priority was to wet the baby's head for 4 days instead. (if she is a mner then I may have outed myself with that)

Many men like this have a horrible, seemingly contradictory mix of major ego and major insecurity. Also they go to any lengths to make sure their own needs are met.

One night (I lived alone, not with him) I was woken up by an intruder in my room. It was petrifying, until I realised it was him. Climbed through my window (broke in) and walked all over my bed with muddy boots on. Couldn't be bothered to go to his own house so turned up to mine which was significantly more comfortable. He was p*ssed of course, and proceeded to pee in my bed during the night. (a fairly regular occurence tbh)

8 years on I still thank God most days to be free of him.

it is tempting to go back and most women in EA relationships do return a number of times keep strong if you have left they will charm you and when they regain some control /power it will revert again to how it was before.keep strong you have made the break and keep everything on your terms