Asked DH for a Separation, baby due in 2 months, not sure I can cope.

[BadhusbandsWife]

This all started with this thread here by BADHUSBAND

In summary DH has been depressed for about a year and a half, came on MN to ask how he could make up for his bad treatment of me during this time and got some valuable suggestions. He showed me the thread, made lots more promises, and then promptly forgot all of them and did nothing. I added an update at the end of the thread.

So last night we talked and I calmly explained that we were trapped in this cycle of "he does something hurtful"-"I forgive him"-"he does it again" over and over ad infinitum. The problem is that we can't move forwards without me forgiving him and my forgiving him enables him to keep doing whatever he feels like. It's a Catch 22.

Now I am depressed. For the past year I have been constantly giving of myself to support dh, and he cannot be there for me. He told me last night that the reason he avoids me and spends no time with me is because I am not pleasant to be around at the moment. Which is true, I am no fun, I am prickly and short-tempered, and I make him feel bad by crying.

In an ideal world he would now be returning the favour and looking after me. But this is not an ideal world and he finds it too difficult.

I knew he was avoiding me, but to hear him tell me it's a conscious decision was hard.

Extra info - 2 dc already, baby due in 2 months, dh works, I am housebound with SPD, I have history of depression, he had never been depressed before this is now on ADs and seeing a counsellor once a fortnight and has recently been diagnosed as Passive Aggressive as well.

I'm off to the GP this afternoon to try and get counselling for me.

My plan is for DH to move out for a few months to work out what he wants and make the behavioural changes he needs to, while going to relate every week or two to keep communication open.

I so wanted this all to be better before the baby comes, but I don't think that's going to happen, he has been promising change for 9 months now and things are still the same.

Please, any advice, support, shared experience etc. welcome. Not sure I could cope with being berated, but alternative suggestions are welcome if you can come up with something less drastic than separation that we haven't tried.

TIA

whilst he figures out what he wants

sounds like he has an open ticket to be a fuckwit and come back into your arms to me

seperation - to see how both your lves go - make him realise - your not going to be sittin there waiting for his call - when its his turn to have the kids - you might go out with friends etc.

some men forget that the universe doesn't revolve around them - when he leaves - you will have your own universe - and he wont be in it

i think he needs reminding of this

Thanks for the reply MsBrendaDyson, but DH doesn't want to move out. He's in complete denial about his behaviour and tells me how much he has improved on a regular basis - just doesn't do the actual work, just the words. He wil move out, but it is at my insistence.

I'm not sure moving out will help. It's a shitty situation. How long has he been in therapy? How long has he been on the ADs? I think therapy really can help, but it can take quite a while, and things can get worse before they get better.

Really hard to deal with all that, while you are pregnant and have a new baby coming.

Counselling for you is an excellent idea.

I think you do have to throw him out, just to give yourself a break. While people can't help having a mental illness, depression in particular turns most sufferers into self-obsessed nightmares, and there comes a point where anyone in a relationship with such a sufferer does have to start taking care of their own needs.
He may well have got worse because you are PG ie at some level it is dawning on him that there is going to be someone in your life who takes priority over him. He is an adult, who has the support of mental health professionals: it is time for you to stop feeling obliged to put up with all his crap. YOU are a person, YOU matter, you do not exist purely to look after him and make him feel better.
Tell him he has to leave, it;s not negotiable, and you're not going to discuss it any more. YOu will be amazed how much better you feel once he is out of the house.

Hello sweetie

Berated for what? You haven't done anything wrong as far as I can see, and it looks like you have incredible clarity of thought and a great action plan.

I'm really impressed!

Has he agreed to move out? I think keeping contact through mediation/relate is a very good and clear way to do it - so that the main (or indeed only) words you have together are moderated as it were, with someone else witnessing them.

MrsBD is correct, it isn't all about him, and I think you're starting to realise this and act on it. It might be a huge relief to have some space at home without the constant stress of someone who is behaving, frankly, like another child.

You will get through it. The moment I realised that despite having to face possible future contact with my dc's father, there was no court in the land that could force me to like him - or to have him in my home, let alone my bed - was a revelation and I felt incredibly light, the burden had lifted. I know this is harder if your family don't really get it - but you do sound very sensible and if you have a few supportive friends, all the better.

Like I said we are here for you - I'll be around most days, have coped with one older child and a new baby without much support so it can be done - take it easy on yourself and don't worry. You are doing exactly the right thing. xx

Sorry missed the bit about him not wanting to go - he has to, and he will probably do all he can to make it seem like your fault. passive aggressive means just that - wind someone up to breaking point and deny all responsibility when they snap.

Be firm on it - I believe you probably have the legal right to ask him to leave, not sure - others here know.

(two older children possibly slightly harder, I meant to say! )

NQC he's been in therapy for a year now and on ADs for 9 months (except for the 2 months he took himself off them without telling anyone and made our lives hell). His passive aggression often undermines his therapy and means he twists things said to him to excuse his behaviour.

He has now been told he is stuck in the "child" role, to my "adult" role. He loves finding new definitions for all his problems, but then won't do the work to make himself better. I put so much effort into setting up his support network and being there for him, but he has to do the hard bit, and so far he would rather make excuses

solidgold, thanks for the support, I certainly couldn't feel worse right now.

BHW, I saw the other thread although I didn't post

have no advice really, except to wish you well...sounds like your dh has been draining you and it might be better to be without him for a while. Good for him too, it might be more of a spur to get his act together. Could be the only way of getting out of this cycle you both seem to be trapped in.

I feel for you, sounds like a horribly tough situation to be in and a very brave decision to take. I really hope things get better for you.

I'm liking this man less and less.

I think it's time to act self defensively. I really do.

It's the right thing and you will feel so much more in control I think.

Well done for reaching this point. I think it takes a lot of guts tbh.

Thanks again flightattendant. You've been so supportive.

He will go if I give him no other choice - i.e. if he won't then I will have to go and stay with my parents (a long way away), and contact etc. will be much harder.

I still want this to work - I am hoping that time apart will give him the space he needs to grow up (ridiculous given his age) and work out what sort of adult he is, without me being there as a safety net.

The constant arguing and misery is too much.

Not feeling like I have clarity of thought

It was horrible watching him flick between anger and self-pity last night. It was like a switch was being flipped in his head. one second he was crying uncontrollably and moaning and looked so helpless, and the next he got up and started tidying the dressing table really methodically, throwing snide comments over his shoulder. He didn't know what to do when I wouldn't take the bait and just told him I wasn't going to talk to him while he was so angry.

Catissleepy, thanks, I hope so too.

This sounds really hard for all of you. A year of therapy is quite a while. It sounds so frustrating.

If you get some counselling, that will help you cope, and give you better coping strategies for dealing with him being a pita. I can see that him moving out might give you the space to take care of yourself properly ...

NQC, it is frustrating. I feel like I'm banging my head against a wall a lot of the time.

I could tell you all the conversations we have off by heart, I've had them all more than 50 times each.

I think the problem with therapy is that his PA means he desperately wants to be seen as "good", so he doesn't always give her the whole picture - talks up his achievements and skims over any problems - which means he's not getting the full benefit because her advice is always based on what he says.

His take on his PA is that he has to stand up to me more, which in his head means not backing down in an argument (he accuses me of lying about everything until I produce "proof") instead of doing the right thing even if I might be annoyed by it (which is what he should be doing).

BHW - No berating here. I saw his/your other thread, and I think you're doing the best thing for your own health and sanity. Whereabouts in the country are you? What RL support do you have?

have you got family other than your mother? siblings perhaps?

counselling for you is definately the best thing, as it sounds like you need strategies to respond to your husband. Do remember that you can't change other people only the way you react/respond to them.

don't worry about abandoning him, as you say he copes fine with his job.

What about your dcs? don't you think all the energy and attention allocated to your h leaves your dcs somewhat left out?

I know its going to be even harder with a new baby, but counselling and the docs do provide some home help for people with pnd. I had it. not exactly a slave but makes you a cup of tea, does the washing up , plays with the kids while you see to the baby etc

Well, it's true that the fix to PA (I think?) is to be direct. If there's something he's angry about, he needs to say 'I am angry about X'. He needs to stay calm, assess if his anger is reasonable, and use his words about it. (The same stuff we spend so much time getting our kids to do!)

If the therapist is competant, she can see past what he says. (And obviously, you aren't, ever, hearing her advice. You're hearing her advice as he remembers it - which is going to be selective anyway.)

Presumably direct behaviour (even as assholish as you're getting) is a change from PA?

What are his family like? Does he still have contact? Is he doing good stuff re: exercise and diet, to help get his head together?

Per, We're up North, not been here that long so although I know people there is no one I would confide in or can rely on. Family and close friends are all a long way away, but they know what's going on. I know I am very isolated, and doing it alone will mean doing it alone without anyone, friends or family. The SPD meaning I find it hard to leave the house, is another problem. The physicality of looking after 2 dcs is going to be a real challenge, not to mention consolling them through all of this.

I know dh will want to see the dcs as much as he can, so he will be able to help out after school. He is a very hands on dad (which is a huge positive in my book, and one of the things that I love about him).

I am petrified of doing this, but I can't keep living day in day out with a man I don't trust, who sometimes scares me (never been violent but he started throwing things around last night and it was scary) and who hurts me.

I wish he could sort himself out, but how long do I give him? He's had more than a year, how many more will he need? One year, two, ten? Maybe never. But I think I am stopping him getting better by enabling him, and so he's not going to do it here.

Kalo, thanks, siblings are also far away, and we're not very close. My sister finds me being preg hard to deal with as she is single and wants a family. So I try not to rub her nose in it and she rarely contacts me (although she is aware of the situation).

NQC, that is all true. And it's also true that PAs often get worse before they get better. At the moment he is actively getting angry - which is good, as before he didn't even recognise that he was angry - but he is also still passively aggressive and manipulative. His anger is undirected and destructive and he has no idea how to control it or use "appropriate" anger - which is all to be expected, and your analogy of the small child is very apt. It's also very difficult to cope with. I got both barrels the other evening because I admitted that I was scared to admit to my MW that I was depressed - he pounced on it as something to justify his own failings and had a real go at me - very nasty and gleeful. I don't think I will be sharing again

His family are not emotionally close. He told them about this time last year that he was seeing a counsellor for depression and although they were sympathetic when he told them, they never asked him how he was again, and never mentioned it again. His mother is a classic PA but domineering with it. They are nice, but hard work and have no idea of any of our problems or the severity of dh's.

Yes that is quite right. The man is abusive to you emotionally, and the fact you are intelligent and aware enough to see it for what it is, doesn't lessen its nastiness iyswim, he's still doing it - a less intelligent woman might just accept it and feel useless and walk on eggshells all her life.

Asking you to prove everything is just crap. Honestly you don't really have a choice, he;s got to go otherwise as you say, you are allowing it, and that erodes your self worth in droves - also his respect for you. So it's lose-lose situation unless you get up and stand up to it and say 'No more' like you are doing at this moment in time.

this is the best possible outcome for the situation you find yourself in - you've done your level best to help the other person, they are not responding, so you have to walk away and not get drawn further in to what is unquestionably unhealthy behaviour on his part.

You're doing what some of us try and get similarly unhappy women to do on an almost daily basis and we are very proud of you

You are following the right path on the map
This can only be a good thing

You realise you might need to tell me that 100 times a day for the next few months flightattendant?

BHW - could Homestart or similar help you out? Maybe your MW can point up some local support for the physical stuff, or ways of reducing your load?

Unfortunately, a lot of the crap he digs up with therapy will end up flung at you, as you're there.

It sounds very hard for you. I would try to get counselling or other support (please, make sure you have good support, paid and unpaid). Could you have a safeword with DH, an agreement, that if either of you says 'time out' the conversation ends, and you get time apart?

Per, will look into it, thanks for the idea.

Already trying to plan the practicalities. DC1 can help with things like filling the dishwasher and entertaining dc2 (he's a lot older).

Shopping can all be done on tinternet.

NQC, a safe word could be a good idea. Am I mad for taking this process slowly and not asking him to leave immediately? I want this to be done properly, so he has somewhere to have the children, his own place. I know he is going to put in all his powers of emotional blackmail and charm to try to get me to change my mind, so I'm going to need an enormous amount of strength, but if he just goes to a friend's house now then he won't have any psychological distance.

Is there a right way to do this?

Oh and I did speak to my mum last night and told her what was going on. I also told her that I needed her support in this and that she mustn't try to convince me to take him back, and she agreed. So hopefully she will be supportive and not another pressure to give in.