Asked DH for a Separation, baby due in 2 months, not sure I can cope.

[BadhusbandsWife]

This all started with this thread here by BADHUSBAND

In summary DH has been depressed for about a year and a half, came on MN to ask how he could make up for his bad treatment of me during this time and got some valuable suggestions. He showed me the thread, made lots more promises, and then promptly forgot all of them and did nothing. I added an update at the end of the thread.

So last night we talked and I calmly explained that we were trapped in this cycle of "he does something hurtful"-"I forgive him"-"he does it again" over and over ad infinitum. The problem is that we can't move forwards without me forgiving him and my forgiving him enables him to keep doing whatever he feels like. It's a Catch 22.

Now I am depressed. For the past year I have been constantly giving of myself to support dh, and he cannot be there for me. He told me last night that the reason he avoids me and spends no time with me is because I am not pleasant to be around at the moment. Which is true, I am no fun, I am prickly and short-tempered, and I make him feel bad by crying.

In an ideal world he would now be returning the favour and looking after me. But this is not an ideal world and he finds it too difficult.

I knew he was avoiding me, but to hear him tell me it's a conscious decision was hard.

Extra info - 2 dc already, baby due in 2 months, dh works, I am housebound with SPD, I have history of depression, he had never been depressed before this is now on ADs and seeing a counsellor once a fortnight and has recently been diagnosed as Passive Aggressive as well.

I'm off to the GP this afternoon to try and get counselling for me.

My plan is for DH to move out for a few months to work out what he wants and make the behavioural changes he needs to, while going to relate every week or two to keep communication open.

I so wanted this all to be better before the baby comes, but I don't think that's going to happen, he has been promising change for 9 months now and things are still the same.

Please, any advice, support, shared experience etc. welcome. Not sure I could cope with being berated, but alternative suggestions are welcome if you can come up with something less drastic than separation that we haven't tried.

TIA

Tell your Dad that the purpose of your life isn't to prop up your husband indefinitely.

You've more than met him half way for a very long time, in sickness and in health is supposed to be a two way street. HE promised to love you and support you!

Your life is more than just a sacrafice for his convenience.

I hope you have a good chat with the gp. Do what is best for you. You don't OWE him your life and happiness. Do what's best for YOU and that will be what's best for the children.

YIf you were your dad's son, would he think you should spend an indefinite amount of time supporting his depressed dil???

Well from what I can see, none of it is your fault. Two things. First it soudns as though your family have never quite given you the feeling you are worth someone good. That's a whole other issue which you can maybe look at later once things are calmer.

Secondly - it sounds likehe took you on, as it were, on purpose - what I mean is, he knew you would see it as a 'favour' and therefore make no demands, and be grateful to him, he was feeling good about himself - it was only when he had his own child with you that he started being expected to muck in rathert than being asked politely and thanked profusely.
He couldn't handle it.
It wasn't your fault. How could it be? You did nothing wrong!

It does remind me of one of my ex's. (i have a few..)
Ds1's dad, actually. He was married when we met, a fact I am not proud of btw - long time ago. Anyway he had two children, his wife had been a single mum. All had been rosy initially - he was doing her a favour. She had a child with him.

After a few years he left those children having been previously a very hands on father.

I had a baby, he left me also. It seemed he couldn't bear to be with his own children.

He went off with another single mother. He seemed happy to live with her, and her children, but has not seen our child in years. Some men just only cope when they are in a position where nothing is expected of them. Once it becomes their responsibility, they feel too committed, too obliged, and will leave or make their partner's life hell till she leaves.

Don't know if that helps, just it rang a bell.

Ex was incredibly pA as well - anything you asked him to do, he would cancel, it was a control thing I think. He hated to be second guessed or in any way prediatcable. He had to be the one who made all the decisions, all the calls. It drove me bonkers. I called him on it eventually, that's when he took up with the next single mum...

Thank god you are not putting up with that nonsense any longer FA

Salmon, I will ignore any stupid comments from my dad, I promise. He really is only trying to help, but it's not helping!

Flight that is interesting. Although DH is different - he loves both dcs completely and really is a good dad to them - there are definite similarities. TBH I don't think DH is self-aware enough to have chosen me on purpose but the set-up certainly suited him and what he wanted. I was there to prompt him to do things he had to do (I hate being his mother) and praise him for things he did do. It's just all been blown up into this enormous thing by his depression.

I know Lifey...I think in hindsight the few years I spent with him were a haze of constant anger. I was never happy. He would tell me to expect him and I'd spend the day getting everything ready, and he'd cancel...I was never able to get angry directly on pain of losing him.
I spent a long time trying to do anything I could to see him, or to keep him - eventually the anger inside me got too much and I let it spill over.

I think it was a twqo way thing though - I think I needed someone I could be angry with. I must have gotten something out of it or I wouldn't have done it for so long.

I am a much calmer and less angry person now.

Liffey sorry

BHW - it was just the PA thing I meant was similar. Ex was also the most wonderful loving father you could imagine, till he up and left his children! I still feel upset that ds has never known that side of the man.

Enough about me though
Good luck at the GP.

See? I'm turning into the self-centred one already

Sorry Flight, should have said that it sounds like you went through it with that one. I know that anger though: That utter frustration.

BHW, actually, you joke about it but I call it long overdue navel-gazing!

I feel, 20 months after leaving my x, that I now understand myself a lot better too, it hasn't been all about demonising him.

I realise now I was prioritising appearing happy over actually BEING happy.

THis is just my navel-gazing though, but I feel confident that if I EVER go into another relationship it'll be healthier and happier.

A bit of navel gazing once every 20 or years or so is a good thing.

Have just read this whole tread plus the last one. I dont know where to start. You have to drawn a line at this and start again. Kick him out and concentrate on the next two months getting yourself to a place in your head that's concentrating on you. It sounds as though his problems are still going to be there once the baby is born and you have to face the possibility that the solution to this might be separation( potentially for good if he cant pull his socks up)
I really admire your strength in all this- to hold his hand for this length of time is amazing, however, the next few months are going to be a major trial just with the arrival of a new little one. you NEED to be strong ( and selfish)for yourself and the kids first and foremost. He has to realise that in order to sort himself out he has to do it- himself!!for his own good and yours and indeed your families- insist that he leave. is there any way you can even set up some sort of support network in the interim? (kick me if thats a bloody obvious question) even just a friend or couple of friends that can get your shopping for you or pick kids up from school etc. What age are they btw? I am due to give birth tomorrow but will keep checking on this post. keep strong- you've done so well!!!!!

Thanks Liffey

thanks Clarabumps, that's really lovely.

Not feeling very strong at the moment, but hopefully that will come. Little ones are a toddler and a nearly secondary school age (trying to be cagey about who I really am, but beginning to think I should just out myself anyway ) And they're both lovely. The older one is going to be gutted but he knows how tense things are at the moment and he can still see dh as much as he wants. I just hope he can get through this too.

Hope your little one arrives on time! Good luck!

Unfortunately lots of people think that it's a woman's job to prop up 'her Man' indefinitely. Your DH undoubtedly does. You really do have to put him out of the picture for the time being: it may be that with longterm counselling and having to fend for himself, he will improve and you will get back a man who is nice, fun, affectionate - if a bit useless. Unfortunately there is also a chance that he will hunt out another single mum who will be 'grateful' to him and allow him to carry on whining and leeching and obsessing about himself. But TBH if that happens you may find that you get the best of him (the good-dad side, help with childcare, so you have some free time to do things that you enjoy) and don't have to worry about the rest of it.
I wish you all the best. Keep posting as long as you need to.

That's true Solid, Badhusband's coping mechanism is leaning on his wife, draining her resources.

If she stopped cheering him up, propping him up... he'd have to find another way of dealing with life. I sure he would do that too.

If you do split, don't even 'chat' as the conversation will get drawn back to what he wants to talk about. Especially if he's feeling harddoneby. I'd ask a sibling or a friend to do the handovers/supervise visits with children until he has properly grasped that you're not his crutch and that his happiness isn't your every waking concern iykwim.

Sorry to talk about you as if you're not here BHW! Just agreeing with solid's advice as usual. I can't stop sucking up to her. She.very.wise.

How did it go with GP BHW?

Hi BHW I have read all of both threads and am really feeling for you as I feel I have a lot in common with you (in some ways) I too have suffered from depression and have also had to deal with feelings of isolation having relocated to the North (to be with my partner) two years ago.
You and I have both suffered from depression so you know how hard it can be to motivate yourself yourself to do ANYTHING so I can at least understand your DH's reluctance to keep GP appointments etc, however that is the ONLY concession he will get from me. He definately seems to be ill, that goes without saying but I can't help thinking the so called depression has magnified the true man inside.
I find it hard to believe that he is so ill at home yet can function at work. I had a bad depression last year and there is no way I could work ( I couldn't even brush my hair or clean my teeth). I know everyone is different but I was desparate to get better and did everything in my power to ensure I did.
He is completely obliterating you and somehow using complex mind games to convince himself that he is in no way to blame. It's become too emotionally exhausting for you to convince him otherwise and I really don't think you can do anything more than you have done already. He seems to thrive on the drama of it all and you keep getting sucked into enabling him to do this. I can't help comparing him to an alcoholic, he's behaving terribly, hurting the people he loves the most but is in denial about the whole thing or more to the point is paying lip service to his atrocious behaviour but has no intention of doing anything about it.

Ten years ago I was married to an emotionally (and occasionally physically) abusive man and believe me when I tell you that the insults that your DH throws at you and the fact that he goes out his way to hurt you could be harming you in more serious ways than you realise and shoring up potential emotional problems for you in the future. I am still having counselling and CBT because of my ex husbands' behaviour and I've been told that he is the reason for my depressions.

It's time to act to salvage your own sanity. I don't suggest you leave him but I would really try and get away for a while if I were you or as you say get him to leave for a period of time.
From now on when you are speaking to him just keep to the matter in hand, stick to the facts and don't get dragged into anything remotely emotional. Don't give him the satisfaction of getting sucked in to yet another of his dramas.
I was actually feeling for your DH at the beginning but after hearing your side I now realise that even the very act of him starting his thread was yet another way of feeding his drama and ego.
And finally I know this is hard beyond hard but you now have to think of yourself and your children and let him fend for himself for a while.
I have to say that I think this approach will be kill or cure for your relationship but I'm hoping that if you remain strong in your conversations with him and insist on this separation that he will have the pants shocked off him and will at last take stock. You've been there for so long as his support and crutch that he ultimately feels it's acceptable to treat you like a doormat and hopefully if left to his own devices and to fend for himself he will come to the right conclusions.

Sorry this is so long but you have really struck a chord with me.

bhw - it seems to me that you feel responsible for alot of other peoples feelings - 'my sister finds me being pregnant hard to deal with, i don't want to rub her nose in it'

you have to do everything and rise above any feelings of hurt or anger yourself so as not to upset the boat. Poor you.

docs is good start, tell your hvs / midwives anyone that will listen. you need all the support you can get. don't feel guilty.

i'm sure your sis can cope with being single and not having kids yet - after all at least she gets to sleep all night ! something some of us can only dream of x

BHW - Kalo has a very good point there. DH aside it seems as if you have some issues of your own and again they are ringing bells with me. My therapist managed to winkle out of me that I do the same thing ie try to make everyone else feel good about themselves, not rock the boat and just generally over analyse how my actions would impact on other people. And guess what the reason for this was??? My ex husband constantly putting me down and wrong footing me over everything plus his avoidance of me and failure to own up to his mistakes made me lose my self esteem and feel abandoned. So to prevent this happening with other people I do everything I can to make them like me. Does this sound familiar to you?

Hello everyone. Thanks for all the comments.

BBG - does sound very similar indeed. And Kalo, Yes I am a people pleaser. Although in the past dh was the only person I didn't have to pretend with. He really was my best friend. We liked all the same things, he was the optimist to my cynic, we could spend 24 hours a day together and not get on each other's nerves. It was a very different relationship which won't be coming back. Yes he would lie about stupid things, was late for everything, but he really was an absolute pleasure to be around - not a nasty bone in his body... except when drunk. Everyone always commented how this nasty side of him came out when he was drunk. He wasn't violent, but he would say terrible things and often hurt people he really cared about. So the anger was always there, it was just buried really deep.

After last year when everything erupted (funnily enough he got really drunk and said some horrific things to me and about me) he promised never to drink more than 2 glasses of alcohol a day ever again (not a heavy drinker normally, but at social occasions would drink a ridiculous amount). He kept this promise. Which I am very proud of. Even when I watched everyone around Christmas pestering him to have another, he refused - and I know how much willpower that took him.

He has also become much more helpful around the house. He does now do things without being asked, and has been more help since my SPD has minimised what I can do.

(Just in case you're wondering what the hell I am doing singing his praises I am trying to get very clear in my head what he has achieved and what still needs achieving)

Unfortunately, in some odd way I think having lost his alcohol-induced anger he lost the only outlet for his feelings. Which has meant having to suppress them more than ever - which in turn has led to nastiness on a more frequent basis.

His behaviour towards me is very negative. He still says he loves me and that I am the centre of his universe, and I'm beautiful and perfect in every way. But his actions all say the opposite and I can no longer trust his words. I feel very sad that he has trained me not to trust him, when for the past 10 years I have been certain he is the one person I could trust.

Everything revolves around him and his therapy and he cannot break away from that. Last night he was very nice and took me to the GP. He asked if I wanted him to come in, but I decided I wanted to go alone. He even managed to ask me how I felt and how it went when I came out. But within ten minutes he was crying about how he couldn't cope when he moved out, and about his therapy and about how sad he was. And I sat there feeling really detached and just watched him turn my doctor's visit into something that was all about him. It was most illuminating.

We did manage to talk about him moving out and having brushed aside all his reasons not to (too expensive, what about the dcs, etc) he seemed resigned to the idea. And although I am deeply unhappy that it has come to this, and really worried about how I will physically cope as I get bigger and can do less and less, there isn't another way.

GP was brilliant. He was so kind and sympathetic and said all the right things. He is arranging for the counsellor to see me, and trying to get me to the top of the waiting list, but if he can't then he will call out the psych team. He's getting in touch with my MW and I'm going to see him every week as well. He said if all else fails he will talk to me and listen and be there.

Funnily enough later on I got a call from my dad. He wanted to know whether or not they should come this weekend - whether it would make it worse or help. He then asked all the details, how I was feeling, how the GP went, how Dave was, how he was treating me, and just listened. At first he was trying to find a way other than separation, but once he realised that that was actually the last thing I wanted to do, he was completely supportive. So I can take back everything I said about being scared I wouldn't be supported

DH and I managed to have a normal conversation just about stuff as well. Which was nice, but I am cautious that he is trying to change my mind. So I've been very firm with him that this is what is happening.

Oops sorry, long again

well done. That all sounds brilliant.
I hope your parents are coming. I'm glad you have asked for help. I am like you to a certain extent in the don't rock the boat, and people pleaser except I am much tougher and my family and friends are reasonable people, but I never would ask for help. Then when I had PND and was in tears at every mum and baby group thing, I found people so supportive and was able to ask for help. It was great.

It sounds to me that your dh may feel somewhat that he has lost his own independance (THIS IS NOT YOUR FAULT) he has given it up by saying he's not drinking for you. He's not drinking for himself actually, because if he drinks he ends up saying nasty things which in turn lead on to him being seperated from his wife and family because he is no longer capable of being a husband and a father.

Similarly he is not moving out for YOU , to do you and favour , to make it easier for you, he is moving out because his behaviour
has consequences and that is that he is not able to be a husband and a father and fulfil his role, (even if he stacks the dishwasher) you didn't want to be married to a servant or a home help that would do tasks for you, you could employ someone to do that, you need a husband that suppports you, makes you laugh, is happy to be part of the family, who you can share your life with.

Being in love should make you feel great about yourself.

He is moving out and really that was his choice, he made it, by behaving as he does, as no one can expect to stay in a marriage if they are actively destroying it, or at least not contributing to it. How does he think partnerships work?

I reccomend he reads the seven principles for making marriage work. I will send it to you if you CAT me.

HTH and btw just to finish off with a bit of chees
'Anger represses the soul's original qualites of tolerance and love'

Cheese duly noted

Thanks Kalo. I do need to keep reminding myself that I am not responsible for his behaviour.

I am quite determined not to be a "victim" in all this. I have always been utterly rubbish at asking for help. I am fantastic at coming across as completely together and confident when I'm falling apart inside. Close friends have said it's like a light switches off behind my eyes - I'm doing all the same things, laughing and joking and getting on with life, but there's just something missing, something that means I'm not really there. They really are quite perceptive Shame they're so far away now.

I do feel a lot more positive and less like I'm alone in this today. DH is sending me emails saying he just wants to be friends again. But I'm not convinced by his motives. I do think that after a few months maybe the solution to all this is to start again right from the beginning. To date and get to know each other.

Of course that is assuming a lot, but I'm not ready to give up hope just yet. And I've surprised myself by saying that

Well done BHW It seems a lot of us find it hard to ask for help! You seem as if you have a plan and support and that must be making you feel a little better. You may find that just by talking about what's happened to you with your counsellor you will feel a million times better as it sounds as though you keep your emotions bottled up not to mention the fact that you've been coping with all this alone without anyone to share it with. Sometimes just to keep talking about a horrific experience lifts a huge weight off your shoulders.
And Kalo is very wise, his behaviour has dictated his situation not you. All you are asking for is to be in an adult relationship with the support, love, sharing and consideration that you so rightly deserve.

You are far from coming across as a victim and yes you must keep reminding yourself that this situation is not of your making. In fact it might be worth verbally reassuring yourself on a daily basis with some self affirming words.
I think that once you've been apart for a while your idea to 'date' and start from scratch is a sound one. Your DH will probably keep trying to talk you out of the separation and get more and more more emotional when he does, I hope you can remain strong and remember you DESERVE what you are trying to achieve, that you are ultimately doing this to help both of you.

Thanks BigBearsGirl. I'm so glad the GP was so nice. I've been to him before but was still astonished how genuinely concerned he was about me - not about dh and his illness, and how that is affecting me, but about me Makes me realise what I've been missing.