Are all husbands like this? Do you just put up with it?

[justwantoutofthis]

I have delayed doing this for so long because I just dont want to moan about my husband. But he pisses me off so much I just cant stand it anymore. I even feel sometimes we should not be together but we have a DS who is pretty obsessed with both of us and I just cant imagine splitting that up for him. And it isnt all bad so it seems an extreme solution. And we are from different countries - I live here in his. Because of DS I assume I would have to stay here and I am not sure I want to stay in a country where the only people I know are either his friends & family or people who only know us as a couple. Really I want to be happy with him and I have tried countless times but I just cant be for any period of time longer than a week really.

Its just everything. He annoys me. He lies but only little tiny lies that dont matter just make me lose respect. Like if he says something wrong, when he is called on it he will slightly alter what he said so it can be excused, when I know it isnt what he said in the first place.

He will tell me a time he should be home from work, then call at that time to say he is just doing a few more bits then he will be leaving shortly.

He subtely puts responsibility for things solely on my shoulders. If I want him to do something he will do it but I have to delegate and spell it out. Even things I have never claimed any responsibility for. Such as "where is DS's school bag?" (asked by me) his response will be in a slightly wounded annoyed voice, "Oh I dont know, I thought you knew where that was". When we split up to do shopping at Christmas he later admitted he left all the "practical" shopping to me - he was only responsible for shopping for my presents I had to do everyone else's presents and all the food etc.

Each and every time I confront him for doing or saying anything that upsets me or I dont like it is never his fault. I am always either expecting too much, being unreasonable, or he has a perfectly good explanation for it.

He wont do his nightly routine things til I go to bed as he wants to spend time with me, but very soon after DS goes to sleep he starts suggesting I go to bed while I am relaxing and enjoying myself. I get migraines so he uses this as his reason, to sleep it off, but hey, if I want to stay up I should be in charge of that shouldnt I? Last night he explained its because he wanted to go to bed and he doesnt want to do his next day prep routine stuff til after I have gone to bed but again I feel this is putting all the responsibility on me for everything.

When saying no to DS or "dont touch" etc he almost always sites me as the example why cleverly remaining the good guy.

Is often too hard on DS and I intervene to give perspective and then he will behave in a more age appropriate way with DS and DS thinks the sun shines out his backside.

9 times out of 10 when I say an idea of mine he either seems only minimally interested, just to be polite, or he instantly points out all the negatives. I now avoid suggesting anything or buying things or sharing ideas or thoughts because they tend to be ignored or he plays "devils advocate" constantly so I get no positive reinforcement. Or if he is in a mood to put a lot of effort in it just feels like he is trying to prove he is interested in it. It doesnt ring true.

Fuck there are a million examples they are all trivial when alone but put together I just feel so angry towards him and so trapped.

I have confronted and cried and asked for change for 8 years and he usually tries, though not lately as the last few years everything has been my fault. He will say "sorry you got upset" not "sorry I was an arse" All the changes he makes are temporary and I just dont want to be with him anymore. I get nothing out of it but a roof over my head and someone who cooks dinner & helps around the house. Emotionally he is pretty useless for me. We dont seem like friends anymore and certainly not lovers nor have been for a long time.

I want to be happy with him but I dont even feel like I know him anymore. He sometimes says things I really disagree with, morally, and other times just seems like a man who goes to work comes home and doesnt do much else. I am so unhappy.

Wees, I was going by the OP's screen name really.

OP, don't bother with counselling. It won't work. I have the t-shirt.

WhatFreshHellisThis, sorry if all the 'cries' of emotional abuse bore you.

They don't bore me, CarryOn - I just don't see how they help.

And telling someone not to even bother trying to save their relationship when you only know one side of the story? Sheesh.

Anyway OP, I really hope you find the outcome that's right for you and your DS. Really sorry to hear you're having such a rough time.

WhatFreshHell....how appalling for you that you get so fed up of hearing cries of abuse...

If it is so annoying for you perhaps you could go and post on another thread?

This OP, as others before her, has plucked up the courage to post on here. No one has 'cried abuse'...actually what we have done is ask if she recognises anything on some of the links that were posted....and lo and behold...her mother in an N. Which leads to other links, which may be helpful.

I don't agree that counselling doesn't work. My 4 years of therapy worked on me.

It's not fair to say it won't work, it's fine to say it didn't work on you, it has proven efficacy for others.

If you have children maybe it's worth a shot. Not if you're being abused or a victim of domestic violence and not if it puts you in danger. Maybe you can get some support just for yourself if that's the case.

Gettingagrip, just read that link. It's quite upsetting for me to read that even after 18 months because I was starting to try and control my children before I left my x. Even at 4 and 1 they were easier to control than their father. Any noise or natural childlike exhuberance annoyed him, and it was my job to make sure that he could watch football in peace etc... I ended up threatening them that they had to be quiet or x,y,z.

I was a terrible mother, I am so glad I left.

Wees, it didn't work for me because I was living with a man who was controlling and narcissistic.

Not even a judge can reason with a narcissist, a counsellor definitely couldn't. My x who sounds a bit like OP's husband, was reluctant to see a female counsellor. He wanted a male one. What the female counsellor said was all dismissed as nonsense on the grounds that 'she would say that'.

I'm sure counselling can work when two normal reasonable people have grown apart or when one has had an affiar, but when the balance of power is so, so very inequal, it could never work, or, if it did, it would take years of intense counselling. Why? what is the point of trying so hard to make another person see your point of view!? Pleading with them to listen to your reasoning? It's degrading, and it's NOT worth it.

Just leaving and being single is the only sane option. Again and again on these boards I'm shocked by the way people suggest counselling to fix a relationship which propably wasn't that functional even in the first flush of lust.

SO sorry Carryon.

You are most certainly NOT a terrible mother...you saw what was happening and you did something about it.

WeeLeekIt....therapy is essential for the victims of these freaks....the freaks themselves are beyond help...and indeed going to couples counseling with someone like this is NOT recommended.

That's what I said. If you're being abused don't do couples counselling but go on your own for support.

GettingAGrip I do understand that people are helping by asking whether the OP recognises any traits - I just worry that by labelling someone as 'an abuser' too quickly it precludes the possibility of working at the relationship, It kind of makes it all their fault for being such a terrible person, iyswim, rather than something both partners might need to work at?

Sometimes people are abusive, of course they are, and it's a terrible thing, especially if they can't/won't recognise that they need to change their behaviour or can't/won't change. But if both partners are willing to try counselling and to try to mend the relationship, isn't it worth trying that first?

I know this is a very emotional subject and people feel very strongly about it.

But OP, if there's any part of you that wants to save your relationship, and your DH is also willing to try, is it something you would consider?

Thanks gettingaGrip, you know initially I stayed for the children, but when I finally left, I left for the children too. My dc1 had regressed to wetting her knickers again, at four yrs old. That was it. I had to go.

I'm also hacked off clueless rubber neckers on this thread talking about 'cries' of abuse. Whatver their opinion on abused women, it's obvious that the OP is extremely unhappy. What JWOOT says about 'millions of tiny little things' is so typical of being controlled. That's why it's so soul destroying, because it's so insidious, and so hard to articulate why you are feeling so crushed and trapped.

Just based on this thread - I honestly don't know whether it's a personality clash or an insidious campaign of deliberately undermining - but you sound thoroughly unhappy with him, and in this day age, no reason to just "put up with it" if you are convinced you want out of this relationship.

I feel I have to make some things clear. I think my DH is controlling and manipulative and neglectful - but not at all times. And I wouldnt say it was emotional abuse. But it is consistent behaviour that makes me unhappy.

My Mother was abusive, very much so, still is, emotionally. But I dont think I have found a clone of her in my husband. They do sometimes remind me of each other in the way that they dont really take responsibility for their own actions and also they have a very selective memory - i.e. it was good last week so dont worry that its bad this week as that means it is just a minor blip on the radar - rather than seeing the overall pattern of behaviour.

But those similarities aside they arent the same. I know my DH wants to be a good husband whereas it probably never occurs to my mother to even think of being good for anyone else.

I'm not trying to make excuses for him but I also dont want to misrepresent him. He does good things as well.

ps, gettingagrip, I totally agree, JWOOT, you should go to counselling on your own to help you realise that you can't ever hope to reason with him. It's not your fault and you derserve more out of life than to tiptoe 'round a narcissist.

If you went to counselling and if it failed - and those are big ifs - the nyou would need a plan composed possibly of a part time job and some money for a rental deposit - is there any chance of either of these things?

Would you be happier on your own in a flat with your ds with your dp having access every weds and second weeknd - if the answer is yes then you should do it - if not then you need to work on it and find better ways to communicate or change the way your relationship works.

Are you allowed to work in this country?

this is why i love MN - got a different opinion? you must be a 'clueless rubber necker'. Based on absolutely nothing whatsoever

CarryOn I'm sorry to hear you had such a rough time. I'm going to leave now otherwise the thread is in danger of becoming about bickering rather than helping the OP.

I dont want to divorce. I want a happy marriage. We will work on it.

I am so sorry to hear of your trouble. Its terrible when you find yourself in that situation, especially when others around can't see how he's manipulating things. He is in the powerful position in this relationship, and knows you love your son too much to hurt DS, even when it puts you at a distinct disadvantage and hurts you. He also knows you're isolated here and that you are not (as yet) in a position to leave.

So he can understand your pov if you show him how it feels like the swearing/unmanly thing)...hmmm I'm not so sure he's as innocent as some would maybe give him credit for. He may be, but my instinct is this is more than a subconscious way of behaving. This is outright and deliberate manipulation in my book.

Only you know what is best for you, I truly believe that each person is the only expert in their own lives but I'm going to tell you my opinion because no one seems to have come out and said this and maybe its useful that someone does, because a range of opinions can be useful to give perspective... It sounds harsh, but I would prepare to leave, psychologically, financially, etc. I am not suggesting you leave now, but simply prepare yourself to be able to so that you can deliver an honest ultimatum - That he sorts this out or you leave. I think you need to be in a position where you can deliver an ultimatum, which both you and he knows is serious, before he will bother to change. I think that in order for him to change you need to make it clear that if he doesn't you WILL actually, really leave. In order to do that you need to be prepared to actually leave, which is why I suggest the preparation. He thinks he has you trapped, and maybe he does for now, but that could change with some preparation. If you get to that stage, hopefully he'll get the point and if he doesn't, you are better off without him. Sometimes sanity has to come first.

It is hard I know, I have had to do this myself. (It worked out well, no regrets) It is not good for your ds to grow up seeing his father manipulate his mother in this way. That should not be his example for life.

I hope this is not too controversial, I know you will make the decision that is right for you, but I think it is useful in these situations to hear a range of opinions.

I hope you can find a constructive way through this.

Lots of hugs.

Justwantoutofthis - You have described my ex husband to an absolute T!

The bit where you say any idea or opinion of yours is usually ignored or he plays devils advocate is so similar to my ex. I too got to the point where I just never asked his opinon on ANYTHING because I always knew he would never be on my side or give me any positive feedback. If I was ever excited about anything, he never showed any interest, making me feel like I was too silly for words.

Does he find a way to blame you for most things that go wrong? Even very small things. Does he say things like "Oh silly Mummy, look she hasn't changed you has she?" or "Oh here is your school bag, I wonder why Mummy put it there?" Oh I could give you a million and one examples.

I don't know what to say to you really except men who behave like this destroy your soul and it is best to get out. He sounds incredibly controlling and manipulative.

abuse cycle

Of course he is nice sometimes....otherwise you would have run for the hills years ago....the nice bits are the hook.

You are forever hoping and praying that the nice man you thought you had married will come back again....if only you are good enough, say the right things, keep your child quiet, submerge your own self......

Many of us have been there.....sorry...

Many of us finally run away when we see our sons becoming clones of their fathers.

This thread was amazingly helpful to me here. Really helped me see some things more clearly.

have you tried things like when he defers decision making to you REFUSING to make a decision?

not interfering when he's disciplining your ds, but speak to him about it later.

just not take the shit to keep the peace. call him up on everything like you did with the sexist clap-trap.

might make for an uncomfortable few weeks around the house until he gets the hang of it.

i DO understand that you shouldn't have to do this - that he has some responsibility.

scratch 'some' responsbility and put 'all' instead!

it's probably showing that i'm out my depth here... he sounds like a very nasty piece of work.

It seems easier much of the time to just give up and be happy with what I have and not make things so difficult.

I dont mean that in a pathetic passive way and knowing me I wont do it anyway as I am always striving for better. It just feels easier sometimes.

Great advice warthog. However I did all those things and more and it just got totally exhausting in the end. It feels like you are just battling all the time.

Perhaps though, OP's dh might not be as far gone as my ex was so these tactics might be effective.

no he is not a very nasty piece of work. Dont worry I am not angry you said it I just want to defend him. He is a really good man. He is emotionally a bit of a bully at times. But I am sure he doesnt mean to.