Female friendships- how too make them work?

[poshsinglemum]

Don't get me wrong. I love my girlfriends- I really do and consider myself very much a girl's girl. Why is it then that I feel that many of my friendships with women are marred by competition, jealousy and bitchyness? Mine aswell as theirs'?
There are a lot of wondreful things about friendship with other women (I am closer to some of these friends than I have ever been with a man.)How then to strengthen the good things?
Or am I being a bitch by encouraging this discussion?

Try to let go of the inward seething as well PM. It will make all the difference.

Hi again.

Definitely think the charm offensive is that way forward - it's certainly the hardest in many ways - and even better if you can muster up enough dignity and magnanimity as possible to be truly sincere too!

RE your friend's 'perfect birth'... (why are women soooo competitive when it comes to childbirth? Do you really think men would be so competitive? Well, maybe they would be over how much pain they went through... Hell, they would complain far more and probably get far better birthing suites with NHS-sponsored spas and masseuses complete with toweling robes.... again I digress.) ... it does sound as if your friend was v tactless, and really rather passive-aggressive. Quite frankly I think that anyone who 'gets off' on competitive birthing is a bit sad. It's the next eighteen years and beyond that she needs to be concerned about!

passive aggressive is what i'm thinking and I really don't think that I can spend the next 18 years being subject to this from her. Dosn't help that weve both had girls. I desperately want to distance myself from her but now weve both had kids she sees it as another way of 'bonding.' I don't.
In fact atm I want to become a bit of a hermit. I actually think that she is just as insecure about the new motherhood thing as I am and this is how it is manifesting.
seeth shudder.

Mabe if I try the charm offensive then our relationship will improve lots.

PSM - you have to feel it is worth making the effort though. Some people are not worth the effort, magnanimity or not. Do you really feel this person is worth having as a friend?

I think all this competitive nonsense is really sad as well tbh; I was just glad to have a healthy dc, couldn't give a rat's arse how he came out.

i don't know why i find it so hard to break up with her. i get on really well with her mum too and she has some qualities that i admire. i do feel that it is slightly toxic tho.
new years resolution; try to be honest with friends.

i think i admire her more than she admires me. she's also part of our old girly clique and im beginning to realise that i hate cliques.
another point; are girl cliques inevitable. if so; are they healthy.
one handed today due to dd!

PSM - if you felt able to be honest with her over the way you felt, and the hurt etc - it may clinch whether the friendship is worth pursuing or not.

There is always the possibility that you could have worked it up in your own mind out of proportion (I know I do this sort of thing) and she may have meant nothing. It is difficult to know how to suggest raising it though. The direct approach I suppose - You know, "I did feel a bit upset when you said 'x' as I felt you were saying 'y'.." Or you could talk in general about how you feel let down by competitiuveness and see how she responds. The latter approach may result in her saying nothing out of embarassment though, even if she actually wants to say " Oh yes, I said that, sorry, and I didn't mean it that way."

This probably hasn't come over very clearly, sorry.

i don't know if i want to break up with her as weve been through so much. platonic love. not even sure if it's returned.

tbh i think that she is just like me in the way that were wading around in the dark as first time mums and it's daunting.

no- its clear. am not seething so much. feel quite sad.

I think it is part of human nature to form cliques. Think of Lord of the Flies - that was a boy clique but same principle, so it's not exclusively a girl thing.

I think you can rise above it as I've said on this thread before - but it takes a lot of strength and determination and will be harder if you're the sort of person who is not happy with their own company if need be.

I geneuinely don't get bothered by cliques now (this whole thing on MN about cliques has left me completely baffled, how can you have a virtual clique?? Much less be worried about one... But I digress.)

PSM - if you can support each other in whatever way - wading is ok btw! - then you could keep it up on a fairly casual level if you both find it helpful. But maybe don't get so close/ involved if that's leading to you getting sad. If the love is not returned, platonic or whatever, the relationship is on shaky ground IMHO. x

Feel guilty. Friend just texted me. She sounds like she enjoyed my company today. I think Ive blown it out of all proportion. Will try to be honest and not get too oversensitive. I always say silly things and im often competeive. I need all the friends I get get in my situation. (slinks off, tail between legs.)

I think the more competitive you are, the more you sense competition in others, and the relationships can become trickier.

I too am a competitive type. I was thinking a lot about friendships over Christmas (can you tell? ) and I've realised that I very often seek out nice, 'non-competitive' women to be my friends. I just feel more relaxed and at ease with them. Perhaps this is due to my own insecurities? When I meet a woman who has a strong alpha streak I recoil and keep the friendship strictly light. But this is not necessarily because I don't like her, it's because I'm thinking that she wouldn't think I'm 'good enough' for her. In fact, one of my new years' resolutions is to see if I can cultivate some friendships with some of the more ballsy mums out there - to get over myself and give them the benefit of the doubt!

BTW,please don;t feel guilty Posh. Mumsnet is a great place to vent, and there is NOTHING wrong in that!

hey posh - surely your new mum mate was bound to drone on about her delivery - she probably felt the need to talk about it. You are right, it would have been more tactful and thoughtful not too, but its a big ask of a new mum. I had c sections too - i had one mate text on the delivery of hers 'great labour no pain relief' - i texted back 'well done - was it a baby?' - always best to have a line ready

i tend to have very short visits with mates who just had a baby or been on holiday - same reasons

Hi all.
Newgirl- yes- these two sets of people can be nauseatingly boring. I often feel sorry for some of my single girlfriends when I tell them facinating stories about dd's nappy contents. Although I do try an davoid this or else I would be totally mateless!
However, This girl and myself have talked about our labours several times
on the phone before so I thought that bit was done and dusted. We talked about it several times so I didn't really feel the need for her to say that. Anyway it did press my buttons and I think taht she is intelligent enough to know that.

My friend is a mumzilla!

If I may add something: I once read that often the things which annoy you about other people are the things you dislike about yourself. I know this really resonated with me, and I wonder if it might be relevant here? It's often a painful and difficult thing to come to terms with, but if you think carefully there is usually something in it.

Mabe it is relevant but I had another thought. It is often my fear of being thought of as oversensitive taht stops me from confronting my friend. I have never bragged about my 'wonderful' birth or gone out with any of my friend's ex boyfriends and these are qualities taht I don't like about her. These things should in fact be deal breakers (esp going out with ex bf)things like competitive mummying i plead guilty to.
the point of this thread wasn't just to discuss competetive mums but all aspects of female frienships. We all had mates before pregnancy- no?

often people use the oversensitive card to be downright rude. me included!

I read an article about female friendships recently which said that because so many women are living in places that they didn't grow up in - especially in the S.E. - and don't have family in, they look for security in friendship groups to replace the extended family. They look for people who they perceive to be similar to them - hence those awful cliques of Yummy Mummies - and don't want to 'let in' anyone who is different. Their kids are expected to get on, and the mums are threatened if the kids want to make friends with children outside of the group, especially those who don't fit the profile of the group, (you must have seen the look of panic on the Yummy Mummy when her kid wants to hook up with the kid from the estate).

The groups are not always based on the firmest of foundations, and it can be devastating when people within the group pair off, or someone is ostracised, or someone's kid doesn't fit in, just like a family meltdown, except families tend to be more forgiving cos blood really is thicker than water.

I think most adults feel the panic of the school playground, so need to find a group to ease it, so you are not reduced to feeling like the kid who no-one picks to be their friend. I certainly feel the pressure. I am inspired by a woman in our playground who is kind and funny and friendly to absolutely everyone. She is like a beacon of light in the morning when everyone else is huddled in the same old groups or standing alone with their heads down.

I think that i'm discovering the real issues behind this friendship. We met years before we both got preggers when we were both single. It was quite competetive esp regards to do with men, appearance etc. i trusted too much.
She went out with an ex who i was really into. I realised that i wasn't over him properly and i felt that she had overstepped th mark friendship wise. She knew that i was upset but tried to make me feel unreasonable by saying that I had chosen to feel that way which I guess was true but anyway. Another mate put it to me that I had to choose if I should continue the friendhip. I chose to. Not sure why. Platonic love? Codependence?
She later then went out with another of my ex bf's who I didn't really care about and several of her other friend's ex's. It just feels a bit wierd tbh. Her fiance is her best friend's ex. They were not in a proper relationship but getting it on when friend decidede she didn't want the relationship so this girl moved in. Fair enough mabe?

A few years ago she told me that she had 'got away with' her behaviour. I don't think she has. She's lost my trust for a start. And now this mumzilla thing. HELP!

Another specific example. Yesterday I was talking about how dd and babies in general have a sense of humour at a very early age. I said 'when I talk to dd in a silly voice and smile she laughs but when I look serious she dosn't smile.' hence demonstrating that babies 'get' humour. My friend then said that she didn't know why anyone would look seriously at a baby and that she didn't see the point of not smiling hence making me feel like a crap mum for not smiling all the time at dd. It was just a figure of frickin speach fgs. It's not like I frown at dd. OK, ok mabe I am oversensitive but It made me feel crap and inadequate./ Ok it mabe my issue but this sort of remark happens to me ALL THE TIME! I say that I do something a certain way with dd then someone says taht they'd never do that with darling dd/ds. AAAAhhhhrrrrr.

So I guess mine is an example of a friendship that went a bit wierd ages before we had kids and now I feel taht having children is just something else to be competetive about. My issue too - I know! I know!

Donkeyderby- You are so right. It is liek the school playground all over again.
I don't know which clique I fit into because I went to a private school (hence the posh bit), have an academic background but not terribly succesful teaching career stalled by kids and yet I am a single mum. I don't feel like I fit in anywhere. i'm not a couple so I can't go to dinner parties. (Wouldn't want to) but have no inclination to go out clubbing an dpubbing with the singles (again, can't and wouldn't want to because of dd. Don't want to wallow in misery of being a single mum because actually- I LOVE IT!

i cant say how to handle female friendships
but can honestly say that i have a brilliant group of girlfriends
theres no competition whatsoever
our dcs are friends and go to the same school
they are always there for me and my dcs
and were absolute stars to me when i went thru my divorce
maybe im just lucky or maybe its an age thing as were all 30 somethings?
but yes as i said before am glad to have all that nct stuff behind me
far too cliquey and competitive