Female friendships- how too make them work?

[poshsinglemum]

Don't get me wrong. I love my girlfriends- I really do and consider myself very much a girl's girl. Why is it then that I feel that many of my friendships with women are marred by competition, jealousy and bitchyness? Mine aswell as theirs'?
There are a lot of wondreful things about friendship with other women (I am closer to some of these friends than I have ever been with a man.)How then to strengthen the good things?
Or am I being a bitch by encouraging this discussion?

Let me explain why "underplaying" a child's skills and giving them low goals versus peers affects their self-esteem: all children subconsciously work towards the goals their parents set for them. If you set low goals versus peers, children will get the message that their parents don't think much of their skills. Bad, bad news. You need to set goals that are realistic for the child within its peer group - you cannot ignore the competitive factor anymore than you can ignore a child's true potential and talents.

one friend with a new baby says that the sound of her baby is cute, she dosnt mind being awake for a few hours each night, she seems to find the newborn bit a breeze. thats my issue, not hers.
another woman at our group said that her baby has never been sick. wtf!

sound of her baby crying sorry. all babies sound cute when gurgling, when screaming not so much!

AnnaBonsoir, My son has a severe speech delay according to the SALT, so my goals are realistic. I don't care about his accent or whether he can speak French.

I DO encourage my children and praise them fwiw, but you're confusing my relationship with my children with my relationship with other competitive mums. Two entirely different matters.

When it comes to competetive school gates
and grades I think I've got my phrase sorted;
''I will love my dd no matter what grade/after school club/award/scholarship /achievemnts (delete as appropriate) she obtains.''

Or even if she dosn't obtain the above I will STILL love her. Noone can argue with
that and hopefully dd will get a positive message. My love for her is not conditional on achievement.

Or even if she dosn't obtain the above I will STILL love her. Noone can argue with
that and hopefully dd will get a positive message. My love for her is not conditional on achievement.

posh, my ds2 has only ever been sick once or twice in his life. Honestly! Whereas ds1 barfed for England and has a bib on in any photo of him until the age of about 18 months. My two are so very different in all ways, I compare them (in my head!) out of interest but not competitiveness if that makes sense.

I wonder if you're maybe being a tiny bit oversensitive to others comments and interpreting things as bitchiness where people might be shy, feel awkward or just trying to make conversation.

My grandad who is 90 operates via the three strikes rule - if someone seems rude to you, makes unnecessary comments etc more than twice, you simply ignore them from then on. That way you can forgive someone the odd bad day but not tolerate ongoing bitchiness iyswim

i think the key is to tell your mate/s if they say something odd so it doesnt stew in your head for ages

the example posh gave us about the baby sling - you see, when i read that, i wondered what should the mate have said instead? i thought she sounded sympathetic. Its tricky to tell from when its written down though - if she cant talk about what's important to her/her partner etc then you both end up skirting around topics which is a bit like hard work

oh i dont know! i guess this is why we make new friendhips over the years as we find it easier with those we have more in common with and old mates fall away

i think i can be oversensitive. its not really this banter that upsets me though. i think ive been burned in the past so im cautious. can't let it stop me making friends though.

no need to be critical of yourself - i reckon that most people dont mean to be mean - of course they can be tactless but its not usually foreplanned. i find the ones who can be tactless are often the funny entertaining ones too - they just say what comes in to their heads for better or worse

Wish I knew the answer to this. I have a couple of very close girlfriends from school and although we live far apart we are still very close. I think the key for us is that we have never been too dependant on each other i.e. we don´t live in each other´s pockets. Our 3 way friendship is it´s own entity, we otherwise have very different groups of friends and the two do not mix. Also I think an important factor is that we all knew each other when we were 15 yrs old, so even though we can sometimes think ´eh?´ about something the other has said, we prefer to give the benefit of the doubt knowing the other as we do and valuing the person and friendship so highly.

I have made a couple of close friends since, 1 at uni which went totally toxic and we practically had to ´break up´. The other has gone weird only recently when she kind of dropped me for several months after losing her job at the company at which we both worked. That was confusing and hard to understand. She seems to want to make amends now and it´s nice to see her again, I´ve missed her, though I am very wary now.

It´s a bloody minefield.

I suppose I have made comments in the past of the "ooo I'm so lucky" variety, but they have been comments that I've made because I thought my friends would be genuinely pleased to hear them.

My 'bestest' friends (and I only have about four/five that are truly the best) are the ones that I feel I can speak to about anything - not just the bad times, but also the good!

Perhaps your friends see you as such a lovely person, they feel they can blow their own trumpets a little in front of you? You sound like a great 'heart on your sleeve' kinda gal, (two of my best friends are like that) - very open, warm, enthusiastic... perhaps they feel they can talk openly to you about their good fortune because they think you'd be happy for them?

Or maybe they're actually a little jealous of your optimism? You can have everything in the world, but if you're not happy and not coping, you certainly don't feel that lucky - and bolstering your self-esteem by rubbing it in the noses of the less fortunate is unfortunately a tactic that some use to make themselves feel better. Sad but true . If you suspect that is the case, you would be doing yourself a favour by distancing yourself a little from them.

A couple of further thoughts:

1. One of my best friends has a friend who 'has it all'. Looks, money, exotic holidays, a supportive and v loyal husband, a gorgeous little girl, a glamorous new job... BUT she is not happy in her marriage, (and she has done some things in her life that would make Madonna bat an eyelid!) My friend too has a lovely life, not so glamorous and certainly not without problems, but she is happy in her marriage. Her friend (sorry if I'm rambling) seems to find this difficult to cope with and plays games with her by not getting in touch, leaving long gaps between texts, making snidey back handed comments etc... Basically she leaves my friend feeling totally insecure. I think it's because my friend is almost too nice - too open, too heart on her sleeve etc that some people that are insecure and jealous find they can prey on her all-round loveliness. I love her BTW and wouldn't change her for anything in the world!

1. I have met several women in my life who I call 'serial monogamists' when it comes to friendship. They meet people they like, fall for them, shine their dazzling sunshine upon them, then almost as quickly drop said friend. I think I can sense that type from almost a mile off now as I've had my fingers burned in the past. I therefore back off quite quickly - in a polite way of course! Often these types expect unrelenting loyalty and exclusivity... and can often turn a little once the old familiarity becomes more contemptuous and competitive. Not sure what this can contribute to your thoughts, but if you've ever felt dumped by this type of person, know that it is not you but more likely them.

Congrats if you've made it this far!

Thanks again for the replies. It is really interesting to get lots of points of view. Mabe i'd be annoying my friends if I had it all. Mabe I've become too dependant on my female friends because I'm not that great with men. Male frriendships- well that's a totally different kettle of fish. Very valuable to me. Ive actually had a platonic friendship with an amazing looking man who all my mates were totally in love with and who I didn't fancy at all. I could see why they fancied him but I just didn't. We got on famously and even shared beds but were not tempted to do anything. I think I liekd the fact that evryone fancied him but I didn't. That's a bit odd really isn't it?

Yep

Oh well. Hi Mooseheart! Great name btw.
I suppose some people seem to have it all but the perfection is a facade. I do think that I wear my heart on my sleeve whereas mabe some people e.g; my fiendishly succesful, in a fantastic relationship, earning lots of money and really lovely sister never let on how they are feeling to me so everything does seem perfect.
I try being friends with my sister but there is a strange distance between us. I think she still hates me for stealing her dummy when she was a baby!

HI, Posh (like your name too btw!)

Yes, I think we live in a society where great pressure is placed upon us to maintain a facade of perfection or high status. Everywhere we look, we are bombarded with images of airbrushed models, size-zero celebs, cosy Cath Kidston bunting-cupcake families hanging out in their Cotswold retreats, big shiny black Range Rovers. Until maybe now... the shit has hit the fan economically and people may start to look for ways of getting by rather than having to borrow more and more money in order to live up to a media-imposed ideal. Perhaps more people will start to look around them and realise that everything we have considered to be of importance in the last decade was all a big mask and we have lost a grip on what really matters? Perhaps people will start to let down some barriers and talk more openly about their feelings? As in, it's OK to feel like shit, lonely and at odds with the world sometimes!

I dunno, I live in hope... perhaps the recession will be a good thing spiritually for society? And I say that as someone whose dh is self-employed and is struggling to find work, not in an 'I'm alright Jack' kind of a way!

I have totally digressed from the topic here, sorry! Ignore me!

Hi again Mooseheart.
The facade you describe is so true. I myself have fallen prey to Cath Kidston(although I always quite liked it) and cupcakes. The irony of it is hilarious. As a single mum, I feel like the antihousewife! I am suddenly obsessed with baking, cooking and soft furnishings and yet I have noone to pamper! At least I don't have to clean for anyone because that urge has escaped me! Actually I should do it for my dd's sake.

I don't think that I am oversensitive about my aforementioned friend. I went to see her and her newborn today. She bought up the dreaded subject of labour. I was in labour for two days, didn't progress and had to have an emergency c-section. She had a relatively simple labour, natural and over in 12 hours. I normally don't feel bad about my labour as the pain wasn't too bad, amnd I had a real laugh with my doula as the contravtions were so far apart. I didn't have the birth I wanted but I got the end result and I'm thankful for that.
She kept saying how she was glad that she had a normal delivery. Not in a sympathetic way but in a smug way. I started to feel angry, inadequate anf crap but I didn't say anything. And yes, I do actually think taht she was rubbing it in. If she was not a competetive friend and 'emotionally generous' she would not have brought this up. It's called tact. I try to avoid rubbing things in people's faces. It's called tact and emotional intelligence. Then she gave me and dd a really lovely Christmas present. Am so confused. Women seem to be nice with hidden barbs. She's also always asking me what equipment I have for dd as though she's wondering how prepared I am. Sigh.

contractions

im just so fed up with the constant oneupmanship.
mum bought me sex and the city film for christmas. bloody loved it- want my friendships to be more like that. they fall out but that is at least honest. i might start channelling carrie bradshaw. where can i get some manalos. all that's missing is mr big.

typing one-handed sucks!

I am an Army wife and like all the others that accompany their husbands we have to make new friendships every 2 years, and get thrown into the melting pot with others that you wouldn't necessarily choose as friends, as well as being wrenched out of close friendships at the end of postings: suddenly someone you saw everyday becomes overnight someone you only e-mail and ring. I find it harder and harder each time we move to start again, but am getting better at not letting people get to me - someone once said to me 'you have to give someone permission to make you feel insecure' so now if someone boasts or tries to put me or my children down I ask myself if I actually care about their opinion: usually I don't. I also find that a charm offensive really puts people back in their box without descending into an argument - so 'My child is much brighter than yours' type inference is matched with 'You must be very proud of him: isn't he lucky to have you as a mum' really leaves them with nowhere to go. or even 'do you know what, all we do is talk about the children - why not talk about.... instead!'

Hi there MLTN,
I like the idea of the charm offensive. Not only is it emotionally generous but it also shuts people up. I sometimes try this and I make a point of telling people how georgeous their babies are.

Mabe I should have said to my friend;
'Well done for giving birth naturally. It really is one of the toughest, most amazing things that a woman can do. Mabe I will be lucky enough to have the same experience next time. (if there is a next time.)' Then mabe we would have both felt better. Hard when buttons are being pressed though.

I think you are on the right track there PM - magnanimity rules! It makes you feel better (most important) but also perks the other person up too. If they actually made the remark with any malice in the first place, they then may reflect and think what a decent person you are and what a cow they were and change their attitude. As you can tell I am also an optimistic person!

I will endeavor to be more like this and try to be unfased by competetive comments. Staying cool, calm and collected is the way foward. (even if I'm inwardly seething!)