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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Original poster

Female friendships- how too make them work?

131 replies

poshsinglemum · 02/01/2009 14:24

Don't get me wrong. I love my girlfriends- I really do and consider myself very much a girl's girl. Why is it then that I feel that many of my friendships with women are marred by competition, jealousy and bitchyness? Mine aswell as theirs'?
There are a lot of wondreful things about friendship with other women (I am closer to some of these friends than I have ever been with a man.)How then to strengthen the good things?
Or am I being a bitch by encouraging this discussion?

OP posts:
BonsoirAnna · 04/01/2009 11:07

LiffeyAnnaOlivia - I know what you are getting at... but I think that the tactics you adopt are potentially very bad for your child's self-esteem. Don't let him overhear you.

MrsSeanBean · 04/01/2009 11:11

I agree experiences in your teens can put you off. I had a difficult experience at school (huge breach of trust) when I was about 12/13 and it has scarred strengthened me for life. I now feel I don't need any friends as such, although I do and also try to be a good friend. But if you are able to adopt that approach and assume that everyone will let you down, you occasionally get a pleasant surprise.

I think friendships get better and develop over time if they are going anywhere. It's nice to be able to 'dip in and out' as well (pardon the expression) even with close friends. The saying 'familiarity breeds comtempt' does have some truth in it.

Original poster
poshsinglemum · 04/01/2009 11:15

also; why can't i tell these things to my mate's face? is writing bout them here bitchy?

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MrsSeanBean · 04/01/2009 11:17

No writing is not bitchy poshsinglemum. You think these things anyway (as does everyone I wager)... so the "bitchiness" if that's what you perceive it as, is there in your head whatever you do. As I said before however, if you felt able to braoch this kind of topic without offence, then I would feel the person was a real friend.

MrsSeanBean · 04/01/2009 11:17

broach (sorry)

Original poster
poshsinglemum · 04/01/2009 11:34

Thanks again everyone.

Bonsoiranna- I agree with what you said and I am generally much happier when emotionally generous. I try to do this rather than being bitter as it is much more attractive
too I am not jealous of everyone
with better fortune than me and I have things
that others do not- my dd for a start!
I guess what I'm getting at is in the past when I have been emotionally generous I have been burned. This made me think I'm not going to be a doormat anymore and I became- well quite nasty really. Or insecure.
Mabe it is more a case of not so much being a doormat but rather setting boundaries. this is something I find really hard.

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BonsoirAnna · 04/01/2009 11:36

Obviously there is no point being emotionally generous to people who never give anything in return. You do indeed need to learn to say stop with people who just take the generosity from you and not return it.

Original poster
poshsinglemum · 04/01/2009 11:38

I agree with popperdoodles. This was my experience also except it didn't put me off but more desperate to find friends Have been reading 'Queen bees and wanabees' by somebody or other about female cliques. It starts very young. I don't want dd to suffer like I did. Inveitable i guess. It's a very interesting, if not traumatic read. Clarified a lot for me though.

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MrsSeanBean · 04/01/2009 11:40

I find my teenage clique experiences were truly liberating; they made me able to rise above the stupidity of it all and find inner strength and self suffucicnecy.

Original poster
poshsinglemum · 04/01/2009 11:40

I think that is quite right Bonsoir. It's something that I'm slowly getting better at and now dd is here- it's more important than ever! Was a bit of a doormat in my 'youth!'

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NancysGarden · 04/01/2009 11:40

I haven't finished reading all of the thread yet but I would say tell your friend how you feel. It needs open discussion. That's the way I usually approach it if i feel hurt or there's something wrong with friendship. I know it's uncomfortable but that's how i distinguish real frienships that are worth saving from those that are more hassle than they are worth. And this level of honesty has cemented friendships and won respect on both sides. (Can't think of a time it has ever back=fired longterm, can be difficult in shortterm, mind).

Original poster
poshsinglemum · 04/01/2009 11:41

I like that way of looking at it too Mrssb!
Petty wasn't it?

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MrsSeanBean · 04/01/2009 11:45

Yes PSM, very petty indeed. But I am glad in a peverse way, because without it I think I would have grown up a far more needy and insecure person.

LiffeyAnnaLivia · 04/01/2009 11:47

Bonsoir, my eldest is 6 and I can assure you that her mother's reluctance to engage in competitive 'mychildcan...' games has in NO WAY damaged her self-esteem.

My son knows that I would be delighted if he spoke. Full stop. He will know that there is no pressure on him to do things just to give power his grandma's trumpet.

Coldtits · 04/01/2009 11:49

I am a single mum, minimum wage, council estate, benefits receiver until recently etc etc (walked to school on hobnailed knees etc)

My best friend grew up with a swimming pool in her back garden, her own pony and now does something inexplicable with hedge funds.

But we are equals. She had a slightly luckier start than me, and has worked a good deal harder, but we are still equals. I have just as much to contribute to a discussion as she does, we always buy each other Christmas presents (and I don't think she spends more than I do) and set the world to rights - and I'm not jealous of her, I love her.

I think to find a good friendship takes a lot of luck. I have two, maybe three very good friends. Friends who could ask me for anything and I would try to give it to them. Most of the other people are friends, but they are situational friends, some ore work friends, some are mummy friends (although one of those is a new friend but so nice I think she's going to be an all time classic) - but the less equal I feel to a friend, the less I like them. My friend with the inexplicable job doesn't manage to make me feel inferior because she never ever considers herself to be superior. My 'friend who has an identical situation except she has a proper church married husband makes me feel very inferior sometimes, because (I suspect) she considers herself to be a completely different and better person now she has a ring on her finger.

Over aand out from Roger Irrelevent

Original poster
poshsinglemum · 04/01/2009 11:55

hi nancy's garden-i'll try and be more honest. squirms uncomfortably!

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Original poster
poshsinglemum · 04/01/2009 12:04

Hi Coldtits. That's a really lovely example. I am much happier now ith my situation and am trying hard to stop comparing myself. Makes for less jealousy and better friendships.
In all fairness I thought all the married mums would hate me but they've been lovely- some have made comments but not many. I think developing a thick skin helps too.

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Original poster
poshsinglemum · 04/01/2009 12:09

toomanystuffedbears- thanks for your analysis. I can see some truth in that. The matriarchal thing is another minefield. I love older women for their experience and younger women for their fun spontenaity but these friendships bring with them their own issues.
I was so relieved when I left. There was a definate vibe in that house. I didn't feel that I could join her in the sitting room. Felt confined to my room and was constantly being sniped at for not doing the housework how she wanted. All whilst heavily pregnant!
It didn't help that it was her house. TBH I thought that it might be a recipie for disaster before I moved in. Living with the landlady. Didn't have much choice at the time though.

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NancysGarden · 04/01/2009 12:15

I'm not a single mum but have recently become friends with a (recently) single mum who I really admire. She is such a strong character, is in a more secure place in her career and more sorted than me in other aspects of life too. If I have ever been guilty of comparing myself to her I would say it is I who feels a little envious of her.

LiffeyAnnaLivia · 04/01/2009 12:22

NancysGarden, I have more confidence to initiate and nurture/maintain friendships now that I'm single and x is out of the equation.

NancysGarden · 04/01/2009 12:28

I can imagine LAL. Friends have invited me to do all sorts of things that have been an automatic "no" since DD because I know it somehow wouldn't work with DP. Childcare wouldn't be an issue, I'm very lucky. It's other stuff. Hey ho, there's got to be positives to every situation.

Original poster
poshsinglemum · 04/01/2009 15:17

Yes - there are positives to every situation. I guess I've become very philosophical and thought that everything changes anyway so to ride out the bad times and good will come in it's place. deep.
My ex is stuck in Iran atm(long, long story) and I'm actually really nervous of him returning even though it will be great for dd it will shake up the cosy bubble that I have built for us.

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sickofthisrain · 04/01/2009 16:26

I agree with liffey totally on the competitive mum front. I would imagine it's far more damaging to a child's self esteem to get involved in competing through them, then to laugh it all off and let them know that whatever they do is just fine. I have an ex friend who is ultra competitive, when she noticed (I didn't tell her!) my child was able to read numbers and hers wasn't, she admitted to spending hours forcing her to practise.. never mind that my child has mild special needs and a completely different skill set from hers.

It's bizarre what motherhood does to some people.

Peapodlovescuddles · 04/01/2009 17:23

So... how do I let friends know they've hurt my feelings without sounding whiny and whingey? This is something I've never been able to master and normally results in me seething quietly for a few days/weeks/months or occassionally crying uncontrollably while listing every slight and plausibly even vaguely offensive act/comment/look...

Original poster
poshsinglemum · 04/01/2009 17:47

I have no idea pea. i'm trying to figure it out. One of the girls in my circle often makes comments that are so subtly backhanded that by the time you realise it's an insult it's too late. Then she is really nice the rest of the time so if I bought up what upset me I would look like I wasn't being a 'sport' or being paranoid. Sigh. Squirms uncomfortably.

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