Should I be cross if DH went to lap dancing club?

[ActingNormal]

...and spent £60 on private dances (we aren't poor and he doesn't spend money on much that is frivolous).

Other people seem to think I should be cross but I can't see it. Am I being a mug? Is it a sign of disrespect?

He got a bit of female attention outside the marriage. He was consenting. They were consenting. I knew he was going there. There doesn't seem like there is a risk of him forming a relationship with the women but if a woman behaved that way with him in a regular nightclub that seems more of a threat to me.

He came home horny as hell and seemed like he had a good break from the stress of his job.

"which is it, are you to blame if you give money to a company that commits evil acts or not? and if not, why are sex workers and their clients who have no part in the evils of their industry held responsible for everything from hookers on crack to child prostitutes in brazil?"

Your post implies that you accept that the client/sex worker relationship is, in fact, an exploitative one, since you compare it with other abusive commercial relationships.

And, once again, morally, the guilt of the rest of the world does not make men who support the sex industry less guilty. The fact that I may be responsible for supporting an exploitative coffee industry (I'm not btw) does not mean that I cannot call these men to account for their actions.

However, were I to be drawn further, I'd suggest that these men are involved in a primary exploitation - they are the ground zero of the chain of exploitation that supports the sex industry. They literally fuck the individual - as opposed to,say, buying coffee from a corporation which figuratively fucks a similarly abused individual.

Both are vile. But which one would you rather be?

The 35% figure is pretty flawed as he conflated more than one study together, fiddled his results, asked odd leading questions etc. One study he did he simply recategorized all the men who said they would would not rape under any circumstances as 'low-likelihood to rape' ie not even giving them the credit for refusing to rape under any circumstances.
Also, the bulk of his work was done on male students. Who are often young, not very sexually experienced, prone to peer pressure and likely to brag: so not exactly a representative sample of masculinity.

OBM: again you are suggesting that to have sex with someone for cash rather than out of desire is always an abusive experience rather than one which may be acceptable or OK to the sex worker (if not a big thrill, percieved by her as worth it for the money/no big deal).
And I would much rather be fucked for money by a clean civil customer at an agreed high hourly rate than work all day in a fast food joint or cleaning toilets, probably for less money a week than an escort (I use the term to mean someone who is doing sex work out of choice in controlled circumstances ie not a drug addict working the streets) makes in a couple of hours.

"not even giving them the credit for refusing to rape under any circumstances."

That'll be because they're in denial about their own tendency to rape.

nods vigourously

removes tongue from cheek

DIttany: in war zones people are routinely killing other people. THeir mindset can hardly be said to be remotely normal so I fail to see the relevance.

SGB, I don't have a price, not for my self worth.

so - all men are rapists when push comes to shove? or just 35% of them?

I am shocked

PMSL at OLdLadyKnowsNothing

SGB while I will agree that people have many reasons to have sexual intercourse I think I would argue that sex for cash involves sexual pleasure for one and not the other (which could also be true for any consenting couple but not all of the time).

Although it probably wouold be a fun experience for the customer there would not be the concern for the other person's needs.

So the customer is always doing it for selfish reasons and is not interested in the other person except as use as a recepticle. I am not sure that shows the customer in such a good light as a person to form a relationship with.

Do you think sex is a basic human right?

Where has the idea been expressed that all men are rapists? Sexual boundaries are certainly blurred when men habitually go to lap dancing clubs, their view of women must be different than those that don't.

See Twelvelegs I don't agree. I don't think visiting lap dancing clubs blurrs mens view of women. Men see women as sexual beings but not necesarilly view ALL women as sexual playthings who can be bought and sold. Are you meaning that lap dancing etc can be responsible for men having such blurred boundaries that they would rape or assault a woman? I personally don't think that's true. I think some men's sexual boundaries are blurred already and going to a lap dancig club doesn't really contribute to that. However I will acept that a general widespread out of control society where women are only portrayed as sexual playthings could blur things for men. We don't live in that kind of society though.

Some men get their kicks from pornography but they are also influenced and educated by a lot of other things and I think it's far too simplistic to say men who go to lapdancing clubs will have blurred boundaries as a result.

LindenAvery - I don't think you can talk about sex in terms of 'rights' but I think Sex is a basic human urge.

'by the way, i'm curious..... i've never been in a abusive relationship... the second any man said or did something to me i didn't like i left. end of story. yet 2 of you who talk about women's rights, equality and sexual opression have admited to one or more abusive relationship.

if you truely live like you preach, why did you become in involved with men like that? and more to the point, why did you stay for long enough for it to become an abusive relationship as opposed to a one off incident?'

why dont you take a look at the many threads on this subject,PT?you clearly have no understanding of this subject,otherwise you would know that you rarely klnow you are in an abusive relationship untill its too late-they have got you pregnant,destroyed your self-esteem and made you belive you deserve what you are getting

you seem very smug about the fact you have never been in an abusive relationship,yet by my standards you are in one,as i would consider my oh going to lap dancing clubs a form of extreme emotional abuse.

i neither knew or cared about womens rights back when i was 20 years old and with my xp.its only what i have been through in my life which has taught me these things are important,and that i dont want my dd's growing up in a society that hates women.

i take back my earlier apology.your cheap shot at abused women has shown you to be ingnorant and overly-smug.you are showing me that what i originally suspected was right,those who work/have worked in the sex industry are damaged individuals with low self-esteem.

This thread is awesome !!!

A bloke at work was telling me how he went to a lap dancing club and how it was "all very tasteful really" so I just looked at him and said "you went because it's a place where a load of blokes can get erections in public and not be arrested, don't give me that art and taste crap."
He did have the decency to look embarassed.

DH travels a lot abroad for buisness and is endlessly being offered trips to lap dancing clubs/brothels/women to his room...and on one terrible occasion, young boys to his room.
He turns them all down and is really getting sick of it so he asked his translator to tell the company in advance he didn't want such offers and they have stopped.
DH says it's sad, as most men away from home he encounters run off to these places like they are entering the promised land.
Some Japanese firms allow execs to put prostitutes on expenses (my friend was an accountant in a Japanese firm and was so sick of processing expense claims form "approved" brothels she left)...it's a cultural thing.

I would be horrified if DH went to one of these places, but that's me, and I suppose it's why I chose the DH I did. It just seems so sordid and self nullifying to me.
I know some people are not fussed at all.
Each to his own.

See I woudn't consider my Boyfriend going to a lap dancing club as severe abuse but I can understand why you might Divastrop. I don't mean that in a bad way but obviously with your opinions about it you would of course feel that way.

However, I can't see how your feelings about lapdancing can be linked in anyway to the abuse you have suffered previously at the hands of previous partners. Unless of course your other partners were frequent visitors to those places and you are making a direct link between sexual/domestic abuse and lapdancing?

"SGB while I will agree that people have many reasons to have sexual intercourse I think I would argue that sex for cash involves sexual pleasure for one and not the other (which could also be true for any consenting couple but not all of the time).

Although it probably wouold be a fun experience for the customer there would not be the concern for the other person's needs.

So the customer is always doing it for selfish reasons and is not interested in the other person except as use as a recepticle. I am not sure that shows the customer in such a good light as a person to form a relationship with.

Do you think sex is a basic human right?"

Simply because a man (or, indeed, a woman) pays to have sexual contact with another person does not mean that s/he will instantly turn into a selfish sexual monster. Many men who use the services of prostitutes prefer to pleasure their partner (or at least pretend/imagine they have. ) If (for hypothetical example) your husband is/was generally a gentle lover, why do you imagine he would turn into a selfish, get-me-off type of punter?

As for sex being a basic human right, that's a tricky one. Obviously it can't be, because your right to have sex may well infringe on my right not to have sex. On the other hand, it is very much a basic human drive.

What does the panel think of these people then?

And how would the pleasured partner feel about his/her other half also using someone else as a body for sexual satisfaction?

Are there any people out there who are happy with OH's using prostitutes?

Back to the OP, some are ok with OH's going to lapdancing clubs and some are not. So if you are not how do you resolve it?

May be wrong here but I believe that relate have suggested that lapdancing and porn usage has resulted in lots of relationship breakdowns as a result. Women are initiating divorce proceedings more than men and are clearly not putting up with things they are not happy with. So are there any answers?

SGB - your catering analogy is clever and well-reasoned and I don't want to appear dismissive. So let me return to it.

I think they can be regarded as complicit with the conditions of their employment. From history we know that workers in shitty jobs have combined previously, and could do again. There is the potential for resistance through collective action which can be used to attack the practices and structures that oppress them. However, what would prevent this is of course is the fragmentation of such potential, caused by workers thinking only as individuals. Developing subjective coping strategies that by default obfuscate the bigger picture. Getting solace from gobbing in customers' food, or being sarcastically obsequious when serving, or simply entering a state of denial over the terms and conditions of their employment and the economy they find themselves working in, imagining that this is their rightful place. Etc. etc. etc. Doubtless such responses are many and varied, but are united by the fact that they disregard the potential for collective resistance. They are thus to some extent complicit.

Perhaps some catering workers will be fortunate enough to find themselves working in nice clean establishments where, although they work long hours in poorly lit and ventilated kitchens, they can console themselves with the fact that they are oh so much better off than those poor bastards who have to labour in markedly less conducive outlets. Meanwhile the industry continues unchallenged...

These clubs are springing up all over the UK. Some are run in a 'respectable' way but some don't obey the rules e.g no touching, so are brothels.

I've just been to Bournemouth and whilst sat outside a cocktail bar was surrounded by 6 different groups on stag weekends, all respectable looking men. Never saw any hen parties. There are now 4 lap dancing clubs in Bournemouth so that explains it

I would be unhappy with my OH using prostitutes. I would be unhappu if my OH went to lap dancing clubs without me knowing. I am not sure how I would feel if my OH went to one as part of a stag do etc - which is about the only circumstances he would go to them as far as I know. I might be a bit twitchy but I would find it more acceptable than if he were to go somewhere to have sex with people who are not me!

One thing that remains unclear in many "yes" responses is whether this yes is about jealousy/self-interest etc or anxiety that exploitative practices are being perpetuated. Or some mixture of both (and if so, in what admix).

what do you mean by 'yes' responses?

Do you mean 'yes I would be unhappy'?

If so then I would be unhappy about my OH visiting prostitutes because I would be jealous and I would hope he wants a monogomous relationship with me! As for lap dancing I think perhaps it's jealousy/insecurity/anxiety about it and our relationship being effected which makes me a bit twitchy. Lots of things make me twitchy though and I think I would be more OK with him going to a lap-dancing club once or twice when on a stag do etc than I would if he were going all the time!

Yeah - that's what I meant.