What do you make of this?

[Looksaroundinconfusion]

Last night H and I had a takeaway. Usually I would order a main course, rice and a side dish. He moaned that the side dish made the takeaway much more expensive so I didn't order it. When the food arrived I divided it completely in half and the portions were pretty small.

When he came in he looked at his portion and looked really irritated and then looked to see how big mine was. I explained that we had exactly half each because I had not ordered the side dish I would usually have had. We ended up rowing and he then said that as the man, the breadwinner and as he was bigger than me he should have had the bigger portion, he needs more calories etc. I am a SAHM and this morning he had told me that I need to get a job and start contributing to the house. I have had an easy ride for 5 years apparently.

I would be grateful for any opinions on this please, because it left me quite bemused. I really do want honest opinions.

I keep reading and you are ME (this time last year). I kept hoping he would absorb by osmosis how other relationships worked and how other men treated their wives/partners.

I left with nothing because I wasn't married to my x. Antoher bone of contention earlier in the relationship. So I knew I couldn't divorce him! I just had to WALK. Which I did. He had been bitching and moaning about the state of the house and my boring meals etc for too long. I'm SO glad I didn't get up at 4am to do housework in a house that wasn't mine, never ever would be mine!! His mother thought I was a dirty messy slovenly slut. He thought the same.

So, even if you have nothing to 'take away' from the relationship, don't let that fear of poverty hold you back. As pps have said, where there'sa will there's a way. YOU will manage with the support of family and friends and the government. I was a bit ashamed asking for help, but I got a lot of benefits.

"I think that it has to be a lot worse than this to justify me splitting up the family. After all it seems that I am the only one who is unhappy."

You are creating another DH by allowing your children to grow up in this environment.

Also worrying that you "have no RL friends" (that you can talk to about this I hope...? )

Do you have any qualifications?

You can usually go to your local College and get FREE Careers Advice - just call their Careers Advisor.

Honestly, people don't change unless THEY want to, and if he has no respect for you, or women in general, why do you think he will listen to you?

Good Luck though

You have to take him (or leave him) AS HE IS!

"I think that it has to be a lot worse than this to justify me splitting up the family. After all it seems that I am the only one who is unhappy."

You are creating another DH by allowing your children to grow up in this environment.

Also worrying that you "have no RL friends" (that you can talk to about this I hope...? )

Do you have any qualifications?

You can usually go to your local College and get FREE Careers Advice - just call their Careers Advisor.

Honestly, people don't change unless THEY want to, and if he has no respect for you, or women in general, why do you think he will listen to you?

Good Luck though

You have to take him (or leave him) AS HE IS!

We do still laugh together but we rarely go out together. If there is a choice between going out or staying in with me to maybe watch a dvd and have a take away he will ALWAYS go out with his mates, it was like that from almost the moment I became pregnant with DS and couldn't go out and drink anymore. If it was a choice between a family day out and going out with his mates then he will do "The Right Thing". ie take us out for a couple of hours and then rush us all home so he can fit in going out with his mates too. Then I can't complain because he did take us out as well.

Can I ask, is he from a different culture? I ask only because all this talk of the "man having meat every day" sounds like some cultures where women are definitely seen as bottom of the pecking order.

Only you can decide whether you want to stay in a marriage like this. Please just think about this though, right now you might think it's best to stay because you don't want to upset your children, what happens when they leave home? By then it will be too late to go and retrain and make something of your life, and you will be stuck with a man who has put you down all your married lives, and you will have stayed for your children who will have moved on leaving you behind.

I doubt he will ever change, but I would ask him how he would feel about someone putting his daughter down in the way he puts you down. Ask him whether he agrees that his daughter should become a subserviant (sp?) woman in the same way he thinks you should be. And if not, why not.

I agree with PD, you can't make people change you have to love them as they are.

I have asked him all that and more WannaBe he either laughs sheepishly or brushes it off. He is not from a different culture unless being Welsh comes under that umbrella.

TBH even if we stay living together I will not be considering him now in any of my future plans. When dd goes to nursery next year I will start retraining then and tell him that if he doesn't like it he can leave. There is quite a bit more to this story and I have spent 7 years trying to get him to behave decently towards me, always hoping he would change but he doesn't. If anything he gets worse. U had some great advice on here earlier saying that maybe if I just crack on and change things myself he might change with me and start respecting me more. I will try that but I am not holding my breath.

I can't love him as he is though. I don't think anyone could. He is a good father, good looking and funny, but just has zero respect for me and things that are important to me.

Lookaround - if your only reason for not leaving him is the special needs school, wouldn't they be sympathetic?

If you need it spelled out, this is domestic abuse. He undermines your confidence, he says you're too stupid to retrain, and while you don't specifically mention it, I bet he calls you names. He refers to you having an easy ride? What, with a special needs child?

But I think your mind is made up, and the only question being how to work out the logistics?

Don't ask him things. Tell him.
And he doesn't sound that funny. All the "jokes" you've quoted sound like put downs. Keep going. Get trained and don't listen to him telling you horrible things.

Looksaround, to answer the question you asked earlier but I missed, it wasn't always so obvious that his behaviour was mean and controlling and selfish. At the beginning I thought he was traditional and old-fashioned. I thought he might be a gentleman I suppose! HA! He was old-fashioned but in a misogynist way.

My x was also a loving father, but not very hands on. All the donkey work fell to me. But he DID love them. He still does. But like your husband, he had zero respect for me. So much of what you say resonates for me.

I wanted to re-train and he was like a lawyer, just pissing on my ideas and throwing cold water over everything. He didn't want me to have a job or earn any money, but yet, he wasn't generous enough (in spirit or of wallet) to bridge the gap left by MY sacrafices for the parenting of OUR children. I bore all of it alone. I had no income, no savings, no pension, no rights to his pension, no joint account even!!!! I had to put everything on the visa card, and then he would pay it off, but he would analyse it and say "Was that really 42 pounds???" Er yes.........

Also, he expected me to bargain hunt all the time, if I ever bought anything taht wasn't the best value item, he would have been so critical. I was frugal, but occassionally I didn't have the time to go into 4 different shops looking for the cheapest sieve.

He wasn't grateful for the fact that I had resigned and given up income and independence. NO! he criticised. Maybe not openly every single time, but I was left in no doubt that he thought that my food was horrible and the house was a mess.

'The jokes' things sounds so mean. I feel so sad for you. My x used to mock me and belittle me. He still tries now I've left actually. He mocked me because I couldn't drive (well fek you buster I can now!) and he mocked me because I hadn't achieved anything. Well, with him standing in my way and blocking me at every turn, it was no wonder.

I used to look at my friends marriages, and even thoguht they had their ups and downs and some arguments, I knew what I had was just a sham. I could no longer bottle it up and carry on.

PS.... I've just seen the special needs thing. This is bizarre, but you are like me this time last year, you really are. My son has some special needs. But luckily the school he is going to go to now has better facility for special needs pupils. So even that has worked out for the best for me.

Ps when I did leave, he left me with a £580 debt on the credit card which he wouldn't pay off. My punishment for leaving. It was a system neatly designed to prevent me from staying!!

My Dad paid it. It made me furious that my Dad had to pay it, I was very angry, but I was free then. He set up a s/o to put £1 a month in to my account. Just a monthly opportunity for him to say Fcuk you!

when I left him, I left my 'home' although it was not MY house, I left my friends and I left the country I had spent almost my entire adult life in. I had to go back to the country where I grew up. SO to say it was a big leap is an understatement. But I am so glad I did it.

somebody said earlier that the World is smaller when you live with a man like that. So true. I went to live in a village outside a small town, when I had lived in London for 15 yrs! But guess what, my World has expanded.

Do you want to flourish or wither?? I withered for too long.

Thank you LLGE. I have no doubt that my H would be going through my statements etc if I let him. He is very nosy and will often read my mail if I don't hide it. He can't stand my parents and always slags them off so I don't talk about them and that drives him mad too because he wants to be in the know.

As for your debt I really wish that I had that kind of debt because my H has run up £1000's. I will probably have to go bankrupt if we split up as he did it jointly. Too late I realised and we now have separate bank accounts. All he ever says though, is that he was too young to get married and it is my fault for marrying him. I must admit that I think he would be A LOT worse if I didn't fight him. I told him once if he had married a younger woman than me, he would have destroyed her. He said to me once that I turn on him like a cat and he is right I do, as soon as he starts his nonsense but I don't want to live like this for ever. I feel that by studying at the moment though I am taking small steps. I am going to do this. I am going to retrain and he can either get on board or piss off and if the fight becomes too much then he can piss off then as well.

He sounds a thoroughly miserable, controlling and selfish man. I know what you mean about him having the power to destroy somebody. I had a stable upbringing and I KNEW, I absolutely KNEW I was not useless or stupid or illogical or any of the other VILE things he said to me. (But that's another issue - the name-calling I mean.) My x could also have totally destroyed a woman with less self-worth than I had. However, I still lacked the courage to leave. But TG I pulled the courage out of the bag one day. I had thought, this is my bed, I have to lie in it I guess.

I know what you mean about turning on him. I had a gob on me you could say. But it was only because I used to suggest something I'd like to do. He's piss on it. If I tried to reason with him he shut his ears. It was the feeling of all my good reason and logic just falling on deaf ears that made me go nuts some days and scream and shout. At least it was an outlet. But I have never needed to scream and shout at anybody else. NObody else in my life has ever had such a total disregard for my well-being and happiness. NObody else in my life has ever been so unconcerned with the injustices, or so completely unmoved by my DEEP distress. ONLY in the face of all that 'stonewalling' did I end up screaming and shouting. Even then it didn't work.

Don't blame yourself if you lose it and scream and shout. You're a pressure cooker and the screaming is you letting off steam before you go insane.

Do you have a community Welfare officer in the UK? I am in Ireland and it's slightly different here I guess, but when I arrived she was my one stop because of my situation, arriving from UK with nothing. She was brilliant. She knew I'd left family home and she set me up with all the right forms to apply for everything I could. She told me to settle in, claim everything I could, back to school grants! you name it, she told me about it. So, I imagine it is similar if not better in the uk. I tried to talk to the CAB when I was still in the UK and it was SO hard. I had to go with 2 children in tow and they couldn't see me unless I was already a client. HUH?

About the debts. BEcome bankrupt. Then it will be like starting from scratch. When you have nothing you can only go up. Also, when you have nothing you qualify for all sorts of help. when you have some money it's harder. I don't want to be trapped in the poverty catch 22 trap though. I will be able to do some retraining (for which I will be paid a small amount as I will under some sort of back to work scheme) so it is ALL working out well.

I can really identify with this thread. When you are in a toxic relationship like this it is so hard to get out. I know with my parner when he is nice ,he is lovely . I have depression and when I can't cope with the kids he is there like a crutch however the price I pay is my self respect. When we have had rows it is horrendous and like Longliveelizabeth said like a pressure cooker going off. My partners mum and dad have a very dividided relationship she has always stayed at home and looked after the children and he has gone to the work and pub. I think my dp mirrors a lot of this, I did go back to work to escape at the weekends but this had a knock on effect on the kids so I gave it up. At the moment I am studying so that when ds2 starts school I can go back to work and not have to rely on anyone else financially.

I don't think you can change your DH,he may be nice on and off when it suits him but longterm you should think about yourself and your children.

I would do exactly what you are doing right now, looksaround. Detach a bit, get on with what you want to do, gain some self-esteem which has been knocked out of you at home, then look at things from your new point of view. You will change when you work and earn your own money, and when people at work regard you with respect and esteem. I would concentrate on that for now and see how things shake down once you feel a bit more in control of your circumstances.

All the best.

I would see him in a much different light now - and could only think of him (in my head and with a stifled, inward giggle) as Paul Smortions! Chin up!

Well as an update had a discussion about uni again last night in which he said that if I go then I have to deal with lack of nice things and financial stability that will bring because even if he is earning loads as he probably will be by then he will not have me "creaming off the top" while pissing about at Uni. Apparently having it soft at uni means that I don't deserve to have nice things or holidays paid for by him. If I want to have a say financially I need to get a job and the independence that will bring. I suppose he is right and at least I know where I stand with him now once and for all and can make my decisions from there. He doesn't know any couples where one "pissed about" at Uni while the other supported them apparently.

I don't really understand where this idea of Uni being the soft option come from to be honest because I will still have two kids to bring up and a house to run. He told me to get a job for independence but all that will happen is that I will get a crappy paid job with no prospects and STILL be doing ALL the housework and childcare. Still I suppose a lot of people are in that boat.

I can't believe that he treats you with such disrespect!

Really, uni is not creaming off the top.

Out of interest, is he a 'self made' type who resents those with an education?

If it was me, I would register for the course you want.

He is really a nasty piece of work.

No not a self made type just doesn't see the point of having a degree, has no respect for them. Been looking into things today looked at an Access course which would be one day a week and lots of flexi learning even this was met with and "What about dd, seems funny to me that you wanted to be around for ds till he went to school but only too happy to leave dd so you can go to uni". Give me strength.

Something I realised today when I was looking for clothes for my dd is that he buys himself decent clothing, would not dream of wearing an item from George or Primark and turns his nose up if I buy stuff from there for the kids. Always wants to shop at Gap or Next for them, but he never comments on the fact that ALL my clothes come from these shops as I can't afford anywhere else. I don't have a problem with wearing clothes from George or Primark just bothers me that to him it is not acceptable for him or the kids but fine for me. Just one of many things.

Anyway I accept these things about him now. The tables will turn one day and at least I know I gave 100% to my kids re time, energy and loving while he never has, leaving it mostly to me, apart from the fun stuff of course.

What would he say if you brought yourself clothes from next/ debenhams/ dorothy perkins etc? They're not that expensive but obviously more than george and primark BUT they do last longer imo so in the long run probably cheaper.

The course you've found sounds fab!

You are right about the tables turning one day and he will regret it when they do!

There's a book that gettigagrip recommended to somebody on another thread, it's called "what mothers do at home" by Naomi ...

Hang on..... I'll be back.

Might be worth giving him this.

What Mothers do, especially When it Looks like they are doing nothing, Naomi Stadlen

As if he thinks you'll have it EASY bringing up two children and studying for a degree, then he's living in cloud cuckoo.

I bet you'll do all the cleaning, cooking and arranging the childcare!?!?!?!?!

Why does he feel that he shouldnt bridge the gap for you and give you a leg up?

Does it suit him that you are (in his eyes) his subordinate?

It would threaten the equilibrium if you got a degree. I think he is going to obstruct you every step of the way.

Leave him now. Don't try and endure another 4 yrs of it.

Well LLGE last night he said that he was fully supportive of me going to uni but would NOT assist me financially in anyway because there are parents out there who don't support their own kids through uni so why should he support me? and he doesn't want to hear me moaning about being skint while he has and does whatever he wants because I chose the uni option. I don't want anything from him now so this is fine and I told him that. He got angry then and said that I am bitter and twisted and poisonous.

It is all surface "Yes I support your decision, but don't think of asking for any help financially (or probably in any other way) and don't whinge because you have it hard, what with still bringing up two kids and doing all the housework, while I go out spending money, belonging to top gyms and buying nice clothes with the money I earn while you struggle along trying to make a better life for us and the kids.". He is a shithead I fully realise this and I told him I want him to move out. He says he will go next month.