Life post DH that refused to sign the post nup!

[mamato3rascals]

I’ve been so grateful for all the advice and support on here over the past year. It’s helped enormously in giving me the strength to leave, and to make sense of the situation along the way. So this is the continuation thread which I’m hoping will be a little calmer and less eventful..!

A great strategy, but it also encourages her to ‘wallow’. Try a post-it like that but add two more for great things that have also happened on the day - it helps a child build perspective.
Alongside ‘missing dad and my life is ruined’ she would have ‘had fun at a party’ and ‘I love my best friend’, for example.

Very good point @Mygreyhair

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The post it notes are silly in my view. She has tapped in to fact that you are fraught with terror about the impact of divorce on her - and she has absorbed this and, to some extent, playing off it

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She needs bright, focussed, positive. Not this wallowing and hand wringing and terror at the impact on her

I think what I meant earlier, OP,.is that you have to stop expecting him to behave like a reasonable person. Reading the threads all in one go I was shocked that you were shocked at his response to your finally leaving - and I was also shocked that you seemed to think his act was genuine? He is a manipulator. He will behave in whatever manner he thinks is most likely to get him the outcome he wants.

I've just read through your previous thread and this one OP and my heart breaks for you, I wish I could give you a big hug! I also recognise so much of what you describe in your relationship. I know the word narcissist is bandied around lots, but when I read up on vulnerable narcissists, it really helped me realise I wasn't going mad. My son was a bit older and actually responded incredibly well to our split but among the things I think helped were definitely the support from school. They put him in a weekly "nurture" group where they talked about things like resilience, and made worry jars (less visible reminders than the post it's? Although the fact she can articulate it is good I think.

We also read a book before the split called 'my hidden chimp' by Steve peters. I'd read the adult version through work before, then their headteacher did some assemblies about the kids version, so I got a copy and we did it together - it's text and a workbook. So while we were still living together and attempting to make things work it was incredibly helpful to have the language about daddy sometimes struggling to manage his chimp well, and that we're all always learning. It's classic stuff about caveman brain, reactions etc, but I think some really powerful messages about accountability for your own behaviour? I also found it helpful to have a way to talk about things that didn't feel as critical of his dad, but also didn't make it the child's responsibility - so him smashing a chair in anger was his chimp being out of control, not something our son should feel responsible for. That was all find it tricky sometimes, but it's our job to learn.

Good luck with it all, I think your daughter is probably also wrestling with how happy and safe she feels in your new space, and the counselling should help with that!

OP, I am speaking from personal experience here, and I have quite a lot of advice I would like to share with you.
Firstly, and most importantly, please contact your DDs school and ask to speak directly to the Designated Safeguarding Lead (DSL).
I would strongly urge you to explain that you have serious concerns that your STBXH is emotionally abusing your DD by making her feel responsible for his emotional wellbeing.
The incident where he was clinging to her, both of them sobbing, while whispering "look at what you're doing" to you is particularly concerning. So is the fact that your daughter is now desperately worried about whether her Df will be OK without her.
I have experienced something similar myself. My EXDP took tablets in front of our child and made so similar comments. I know from personal experience just how frightening and emotionally damaging it can be for a child to feel responsible for a parent's wellbeing.
Your DD is carrying an emotional burden that no child should ever have to carry. She should not feel responsible for keeping Df happy, protecting him from sadness or trying to bring her parents back together.
Please don't just inform the school that you're separating. Explain the specific incidents and ask the DSL to formally record your concerns about possible emotional abuse as a safeguarding matter.
I would also strongly advise you to keep a dated, factual record of everything that happens. Record what your STBXH says and does, what your DD says spontaneously, and how she reacts emotionally. Keep any relevant messages from him too.
This isn't about preventing your daughter from loving DF. Quite the opposite. She should feel completely free to love both parents without guilt, pressure or responsibility for either parent's happiness.
I am so pleased you are considering therapy for her, but I really do think involving the school's safeguarding lead is an important first step.
I wish someone had explained the significance of this behaviour to me when I was going through it. Please take it seriously now, before your DD becomes any more emotionally burdened by the situation, it stays with them for a long time

Just one other thing I wanted to mention, which I wish someone had told me at the time.
I've since learned that some controlling or abusive partners can go through different phases following separation. The crying, begging to come back and sudden change in behaviour can sometimes be followed by anger, hostility or further attempts at control.
I had absolutely no idea about this when I was going through it. Looking back, I wish I'd understood what was happening, as I think I could have supported my DS so much better and perhaps spared him some of the distress he experienced.
I'm not saying your STBXH will necessarily follow the same pattern, but I would just be mindful of the possibility and try not to let guilt influence your decisions. That was something I struggled with enormously.
I would also have some reservations about 50/50 care at this early stage, given how distressed your DD is and the pressure she appears to feel to look after her father's emotions. I would want to discuss those concerns with a Child Therapist and my Lawyer before assuming that arrangement is right for her.
I really hope things settle down for you all. I just wish I'd known then what I know now. ❤️

Haven’t read all the thread and I promise you no judgement but get her Teddy and manage it coming and going for now. You owe it to her to make the effort to do this. Not because you’ve done something wrong but because she needs comfort.

I think you're doing wonderfully well. You're being honest, age appropriate, and compassionate to your DD1, who could ask for more than that?

The problem is you have father who is undermining everything you are doing. And TBH there's probably not much you can do about it. You aren't going to change him and you should never 'grill' DD about 'what Daddy says' (I know, you aren't). The most you could do is, if she says anything about 'Daddy is sad' or 'Daddy is lonely', simply ask her "Oh, why do you say that?" and then listen. I have a feeling you'll find out he's playing on her emotions and possibly even saying some 'negative' things about you. Write them down, but do not pursue followup questions. Simply do as you have been doing, reassure her and gently 'correct' anything he's told her. I think your line about Daddy enjoying some 'me time' is a good one. You can also say that grownups can find things to do to make them not feel lonely and you're sure that Daddy is doing that.

I said to write the things she says down because there is such a thing as parental alienation. If his 'I'm lonely' crosses over into him saying negative things about you, severely playing on DD's emotions, or saying that the break up is 'your fault', that is something to speak to your solicitor about. A parent is not allowed to say negative things about the other parent. Judges do NOT look favourably on that! And repeatedly playing on a child's emotions about how much a parent is missing them and how lonely they are without them is not looked on favourably, either.

My advice is do not show him those post-its. Those are DD's private thoughts and, as upsetting as they are, not yours to share. Besides, they aren't going to change his behaviour one whit and you're right, they must might give him 'emotional ammo' to use with DD. I'd take pictures of them, then leave them be.

I think your idea of getting counseling for DD is a good one. You could explain to her that it's so she has someone she can tell everything to who will not share her 'secrets' and she doesn't have to worry about hurting their feelings.

There's so much strength, compassion and love weaved in this and your last thread from you and all other posters too. ❤️

Good luck to you and DC in your new life 💐

This.

Just wanted to say @mamato3rascals you are managing all of this so well. It sounds like a lot of plate juggling, but look at how much you've achieved in such a short space of time, already in your new home... and taking steps to protect your and your DC's financial future and able to manage your day to day life without being frustrated at every turn. It must be difficult but things will get better, especially once the children settle. They will realise how much you support them and get used to things. I second all the good advice you've been given here.

The post it notes or the diary. He would weaponise those notes, as you 've already realised. Make a promise to yourself that you won't give him extra information that is not necessary, especially pre hearing. He is not trustworthy.

I hope you and your DD and younger DC are feeling better and are enjoying your second week in your new home x

He is not going to put your DD first.

She will be ok though.
Look to some therapy for her now, solo and perhaps with you in time. But not involving him - he will try and manipulate where he can.

But also don't make this the "interesting tragic backstory" for your daughter. Without belittling her feelings, it's also really important she starts to see this as not being that big a deal. You need to keep modelling it - she will otherwise read into it unconsciously that being upset gets more mummy attention, focus etc. Make sure that while you recognise her feelings - "I understand you are sad" that you are also ensuring there is plenty of attention for other things and sometimes - not when she is absolutely sobbing - that you don't get too overly engaged in each sad note or drawing she does.
"I can see you were sad when you wrote that note. I hope you feel a bit better now. Let's get outside and play swingball while it's sunny. Your brothers are already playing Do you think we should make pizza for tea?" Etc etc.

Hope things are settling down for you @mamato3rascals . No need to reply. Life can get v busy. Just wanted to know that many are thinking of you x