Life post DH that refused to sign the post nup!

[mamato3rascals]

I’ve been so grateful for all the advice and support on here over the past year. It’s helped enormously in giving me the strength to leave, and to make sense of the situation along the way. So this is the continuation thread which I’m hoping will be a little calmer and less eventful..!

@mamato3rascals your ex has been emotionally abusing your dd since you started the divorce and you are now seeing the results of that.
What started with his outburst about receiving the divorce papers has only been ramping up as time goes on with the performative tears and wailing with her being rocked by him whilst whispering in her ear and now hes putting his loneliness onto her.
You need to reduce his contact with her until he stops abusing her and she needs to be told that her dad's happiness is not her responsibility and that hes the only person to blame for what's happening now.

Id be talking to the school and social work as what hes doing to your poor dd is so harmful and the professionals need to know what hes doing so they can help you to protect her from him

Bless you @mamato3rascals - that’s a tough read so I can only imagine how hard it is to live. For what it’s worth, this internet stranger thinks you are doing brilliantly May STBXH pillow always be warm and all his poos hedgehogs.

I’d lay it all out to him in a message, brutal but honest.

1. Please stop telling the DC that you’re lonely. Your loneliness is not their problem to resolve. Invite some friends over, take up a hobby, get some counselling, and try to become the type of person that other people enjoy being around, that’s how you’ll resolve your loneliness, not by demanding your DC fill that void for you and make them feel like they’re failing if they don’t.
2. Stop bringing up the 50/50 like it’s a negative. You get the DC 50% of the time, which is a hell of a lot more parenting than you did when we were a couple. Plus the DC get to be away from your current miserable state for 50% of the time AND I get to be away from you 100% of the time. That’s a win for the bulk of the people involved.
3. You weren’t a great H, you were a bare minimum H. Trust me, I weighed up the pros and cons of our marriage repeatedly, over a long time and the cons always won, so please stop sending your bare minimum lists to me.
4. Stop parentifying DC1. She is not your mother, here to take care of you. She is not a parent to take care of the other DC, she is a child that YOU, her parent, needs to care for. Caring for her does not include making her feel like your unhappiness is her problem to resolve. That burden weighs heavy on her head and you are ruining her childhood by making her feel responsible for you.
5. The divorce is happening. You are single now, start building your own life and your own future without me in it. You were happy enough to disappear for jaunts away from the family when we were together,and didn’t call during those times away to speak to the kids. Please continue to invest in your own happiness the way that you did when we were married, go out, enjoy yourself and let the kids enjoy their new home with me in peace.

Lay down your boundaries, and the truth now. He’s not your responsibility to care for and he’s certainly not your DD1s, so show him a mirror so he can see his behaviour, and hopefully it might shock him into change/counselling.

He is doing exactly what my friend’s XH did to her eldest daughter - instead of centring the child’s feelings and trying to ensure he made the best of the situation for her sake, he was a totally narcissistic, self-absorbed man baby and pushed all of his shit onto her, making her feel responsible for his emotional wellbeing.

It’s a truly awful manipulation tactic, because the aim is really vindictiveness towards the absent partner (he wants the kids to see you as the bad guy who’s hurt and abandoned daddy and left him all alone), but the net effect is that the child feels simultaneously responsible yet helpless. They can’t change the situation, so instead they worry continuously about the ‘sad’ parent, even when they’re not with them, and it leaves the child in a permanent state of vigilance and distress.

It’s psychologically incredibly damaging to kids who are being emotionally manipulated and squeezed like this. My friend’s daughter, now an adult, suffers from anxiety and an eating disorder that’s ravaged her, mentally and physically. She’s been effectively subbed in as her father’s keeper from a very young age and has been unable to escape that dynamic even in adulthood. She sees him as a victim, and it’s caused endless problems between her and her mum, whom she blames for the whole situation, even though she can rationally see that her father was a horrible husband and parent.

Get therapy for your child asap, and ensure the therapist knows about this issue and can try to help protect your DD from the consequences of his selfishness.

OP im so sorry that you are having to deal with this.
Is it worth you having a grey rock approach to your ex when he tries to bring up getting back together?
A stock answer like:
'I no longer wish to discuss our relationship, we have both tried and said everything we need to say, and we are not getting back together. Please only contact me if it is about the children'
So no matter what he says, you reply the same thing over amd over. Or do you feel like you have more to say, which is understandable.
Are you documenting all the things he is saying to your daughter?

@mamato3rascals I think you’ve given your daughter’s name in your recent post, just fyi.

I actually like this a lot. I'd add 'by doing this you are hurting and upsetting your daughter and you need to stop and behave appropriately' to 1 and 3.

I wouldn’t let him ring her while you have her as it’s upsetting her.

Oh @mamato3rascals , I've been lying here in bed this morning reading all your posts on your last thread and now this one. I remember seeing the beginning of the last thread but then lost sight of it.
All I really want to say is I think you are a completely AWESOME human being, woman, and mother. Completely AWESOME.
Resilient, intelligent, resourceful, kind, compassionate, loving.
I'm so sorry you've been through all this but delighted with your move to the rental and I hope things continue to get better, especially of course for little DD1.
Wishing you and your children all the best.
And him too, weirdly, because him being such an unholy mess of a man isn't helping anyone, is it?
But he's not your responsibility. I hope that DD1 can be helped to see that he's not hers either, poor little poppet.
Huge hugs.

Really? I was told that inheritsnces often don’t count in divorces as long as they haven’t become part of the family pot - for example being used to pay off the mortgage. I’m amazed they can use potential future inheritance. Seems crazy as it could end up all being used for care or someone could be disinherited.

I hate the way some manipulative people can string out divorces for years. I’m a bit cynical but I think it suits the legal system not to change this as they seem to benefit most from stringing it out. If someone is being unreasonable the courts should just decide in the other person’s favour and that’s it. They shouldn’t be able to keep prolonging it and miss court dates etc.

OP please find a good therapist for your children. My situation was different in that they had grief therapy but it was so helpful. It's not like adult therapy to begin with - it's just play and getting them to express their feelings. I can't recommend it enough. You've done the right thing, and protecting your children from their father's emotional abuse is incredibly important. Don't ever doubt that.

If he's behaving badly at handovers, do them on neutral public territory like a cafe. He may rein himself in if there's an audience. And keep them as brief and brisk as possible. As soon as he arrives for pickup, you leave. When you're picking up, if he won't adopt the same system just grey rock him - don't engage in the tantrum.

A few of suggestions:

Don't let DD see that you are upset at her being upset. I wonder if all the ongoing reassurance and talks are being counterproductive. Perhaps a more brisk and no-nonsense approach from you would work better. Don't indulge her emotions. Tell her that mummy and daddy's relationship is a grown-ups thing and that because she is a little girl she doesn't need to think about it.
Couple this low-emotion approach from you with getting her some counselling.

Get a fixed contact schedule in place ASAP if you don't have this already. The DC need as much stability and routine as possible.
You should have a weekend each, alternating, and share weekdays.

Massively reduce your contact with ex. Get a new phone number for yourself and don't give it to him. Then only look at the old phone once a day.
Or tell him that you will not be reading any texts from him and that he has to email you (then mean it - delete all his texts unread), or use one of the parenting apps that courts recommend.
Definitely don't have verbal conversations - you may need to keep copies of his emotional abuse for evidence if the situation escalates and you need to re-think the 50/50 parenting, which of course you can't do if it is verbal.

She said “strength to leave”. That doesn’t mean she has yet but could be in the process.

Last posts on last thread make it clear she's moved into a rental at the beginning of October. Thankfully!

@mamato3rascals

This!

It’ll take time too. She needs to feel the feels, cry the cries. It won’t always hurt like this.

I sense she’s probably old enough and emotionally mature enough to have manipulation introduced to her in a balanced, grown up, way, if you haven’t already. It doesn’t have to be a slatting daddy fest, but it’s all a learning curve, and it’ll help protect her from her peers that may also be manipulative. It’s a useful skill and insight to develop.

Does he behave in a way that makes her feel he wants the best for her? Or for him? Remind her of the times she didn’t have any contact or see him for days on end and she was fine.

You’re doing great, OP, it really is a long game!! Hope you get some internal peace soon. How are you spending the days when you don’t have the kids? Are you able to look after yourself a bit?

Id use school as handover for this reason.

One takes to school in morning and other collects from school later.

Does his parents know yet?

If his behaviour doesn't settle this next week or two with DD I would seriously consider if 50:50 access is in her best interests. I would not allow him to put her in the middle and emotionally abused her in this way. A stern conversation and a solicitor letter might help.

He keeps messaging me things like, “We are both going to miss out on 50% of our children’s lives growing up now because of this.”

Yeah and whose fault is that would be response. He’s the one refusing to engage!

It's heartbreaking but you're doing what you feel is right.
Of course she's more upset about this than her dad going away when she knew he would be coming back to the family home. It's a completely different thing, and very distressing. The best thing you can do is recognise this and support her.

Has your divorce moved forward at all. Once this is finalised hopefully he will get the message that this is happening for good and he can’t change it. Try not to let this keep dragging out as you all need to move forward

That's a good perspective about not continuing the conversation about her dad and upset.

Focus on all you're doing together, baking, having fun and not letting him be the centre of YOUR time together.

Gradually change the subject, acknowledge her hurt or tears but start to move on.

Having all grandparents around too if that's "normal" will help her see things are not changing too much. Pull on wider family if they'll reassure her and give her someone neutral to talk to while you find a therapist.

You have had good advise above. I will add

Document, document, document. Everything.

Yes, yes to a neutral handover. He should never come near your front door. If he starts howling in front of a McDonalds crowd, he’s going to look a right prat so I bet he won’t do it. If he hands over to you in McDonalds and won’t leave, have takeaways ready so gather them up and leave immediately. No hanging around.

Once you get dc home, have a rigid routine set up. Always the same food. A drink, a bath, cuddles, a story. By always knowing what to expect, upheaval is reduced.

And, as the horsey people say, a little Dr Green never goes amiss. Get her into a sport or a regular visit to a green, outside space. Always good for a soul.

Gosh, I’ve just been into her room. I always encourage her to write down her worries or to talk about them. She’s used the new post it notes I bought her to write notes every day and stick them on her wall. This is what they say (she thinks I’ve not seen these yet)…

”Thursday: Worry. 29 Oct. I don’t like mum and dad splitting up. But I’m going to try and forget”.

“Friday Worry. 30 Oct. I still hate that mum and dad have split up and I think it has ruined my life, I think that might be a bit dramatic but I cry myself to sleep at night because I hate it”.

This is so hard, I’d do anything to take it away from her. If I show these to my STBXH he will blame me for
the situation “see, look what you’ve done”. “Don’t worry darling come to daddy”. That’ll be his narrative. At the same time I feel he needs to see these so he knows how important it is to be supporting her through. Also - it is NOT on radar at all for some time - but I’m also conscious of showing the above to him because IF I ever wanted to move out of the area in future (we don’t live in the best area - for various reasons which I won’t post here) then he’d use these post it notes against me to ever move. That’s a whole different ballgame in itself and I guess I’m just thinking long term as to what I might want myself. But right now it’s stability and structure for the kids. I just want to be careful I don’t give him any ammo for later years.

The good part in all of this is that I guess I’ll be a size 6 for Christmas 😂😂

Your ex is being a dick and essentially abusing your DD with his behaviour. Call him out on it and tell him to grow the fuck up and be a parent. His one job is to support her, not trying to get her to be his emotional crutch.
definitely talk to the pastoral support lead at school, that may be through Thrive or the trauma informed approach. They will be able to access support for her.