Do I tell DD she's not nice?

[Weeeheee]

DD (20) is due to meet the OW in person soon at XH wedding to her.

DD has chatted online with OW a few times (she lives abroad). DD said the other day that she's looking forward to meeting OW, as she seems nice.

I'm desperate to discuss with DD why she's not nice.

OW persisted in chasing XH and encouraging him to end our marriage and our family life. OW was married herself, so was also cheating on her husband. She has a young child, so also broke up their family.

I do not blame OW for XHs choices. He ended our marriage, not her.

But anyone who pushes a person to end their marriage and leave their family, and move a 10 hour flight away from their own children is not a nice person.

A woman who cheats on her husband is not a nice person.

I want to discuss with DD why she thinks she's nice when she behaved in the way she did.

I know I shouldn't, as I'll sound bitter.

I'm not bitter at all - life is the best its been without XH in it.

But OW is not a nice person, and as a now adult, DD should be mature enough to consider the bigger picture.

I'm probably going to leave it, but would you say anything to DD?

Her dad is literally part of her. It will hurt her heart and sense of self to hate him. Reconciling with him and being OK with this woman could be healing for her. She knows what he did. As hard as it is, you need to let her move forward in her on way. I'm so sorry. This must be so painful.

I didn't need to say anything, my sons understood the situation, they were teenagers, so I did encourage them to see their father and his wife regularly. I had trouble with my in-laws, telling me how nice she was and how well they got on with her, and showing me photos of recent extended family events, to which I was not invited, obviously, but neither were my sons. I stopped taking my son's to visit them, once they were old enough to go their selves, or remind their father to take them, and I cut off contact with them as I found it too difficult to deal with. Now my surviving son is an adult with children of his own, and makes the time to visit his father, who now has dementia, in order to give his father's wife a break. I feel very proud of him.

You cant blame her for your XH choosing to cheat on you. I presume you have never met her so you cant give an opinion on what she is like. Allow your children to make their own decisions, if she isnt a very nice person then they will work that out for themselves and if she is nice then they will also work that out.

This.
This is ❤️
This is why society has degraded so much over the past few decades. We need to bring back a good old dose of shame tbh before things get even worse.

Because this is what I think.
**
And DD knows this.

So if she already knows, why do you need to say it again?

What you ex did to you was absolutely horrible and you are entitled to feel angry, upset and hurt for as long as you need to, but your kids shouldn’t feel the need to pick sides.

Being the stable and safe parent involves being the one who doesn’t put them in these situations. It requires a lot of sacrifice whilst unfairly, the other parent gets to live their best life without a care in the world. That’s the price for them knowing you are the one they can always count on.

Ultimately, your kids are the only ones at this point who will feel shit by any comments made by either parent.

Man, there are some weird opinions on this thread.

Why on earth would you conclude that I blame OW for XH's cheating?! Please re-read my OP and subsequent posts.

OW is her own form of horrid for

A) cheating on her husband
B) choosing to pursue a married man
C) encouraging and supporting XH to move a 10 hour flight away from his children

As a mum, surely I should want to warn my children if they're associating with known not nice people?

So? He's still her dad. She can't stop being related to him, just because the OP has stopped being married to him.

As this thread has unfolded, it's made me recognise that if DD was associating with an unsavoury person, I'd say something. I'd have to, in my duty as a parent.

And yet I'm being encouraged to not say anything about the unsavoury OW.

Bizarre thinking.

(Yes, he made many videos for the website. She made them too. And they made some together using Zoom, as they were a 10 hour flight apart. It was cathartic watching them pissed with a good mate. The fake noises...oh my life!)

The man gets a free pass then.

Who said free pass? He will be forever diminished in his dd's eyes.

She may still want some contact with him and his new wife though.

I presume:
A) You have very little knowledge of her previous relationship and why she may have decided to look for another relationship
B) Your XH put himself out there as available, she didnt make him do this.
C) Your XH made his own mind up to move away.
Your children are adults and able to make up their own mind about people in their lives. If you dont want to hear different opinions than the one you believe is the correct one then dont ask.

I would be bitter, and I would want to also say something. But you know what, sometimes the high road is better for your own soul. No good will come of it, it is adding bad energy and your daughter will make her own mind up, at some point the mask will fall and your daughter will see things for what they are. Right now she is excited about a wedding and pleased for her dad. She clearly loves him, you don’t need to shatter her view of him at this point. If she asks for the details of the divorce don’t lie tell her then. If she wanted to know she would have asked. She will ask one day I’m sure, but telling her now, times with the wedding is just going to make things horrible for her, not you as you said you are doing fine. The only person losing will be your daughter. They will still get married, they already know what they did, you will still be divorced and your daughter will be the only person that really gets hurt by you telling her.

I literally can’t think of anything worse than watching my ex and OW having some sort of bizarre zoom sex 🤢🤢 it sounds like they’re well matched tbh.

Anyway, “nice” is such a nothing word I wouldn’t bother engaging with it. It sounds like your children already know (more than!) enough about the circumstances of your split, your daughter can form her own opinions based on the relevant facts.

I’d say bitterness is bad because it’s the classic “it hurts you far more than anyone else”. Anger, on the other hand, can be a very productive emotion.

I’c curious when you say people who cheat on and deceive those they love are horrid - what about if xH simply didn’t love you? Is that as bad? Worse/better?

Agreed. It only really becomes a problem if being angry or bitter is negatively affecting your life and holding you back, keeping you from moving forward and healing. I think it's fine to feel a flare of anger or bitterness when the topic is brought up. It's only natural.

And in this situation with the daughter being an adult, while it's still not appropriate to burden her with all her mother's emotions, there's nothing wrong with pointing out the obvious – that you don't like the OW and don't really want to hear about her, especially not how nice she seems.

A) Is there ever a reason to cheat on your partner? Any decent human ends their marriage before looking for a new relationship.

B) So pursuing a married man is ok in your book? I saw some of their messages. He told her that we were happily married and didn't want our marriage to end. She continued to pursue.

C) Again, I've never said it wasn't his decision. It was an easier decision to make when you're being encouraged to move that distance. A decent person would have encouraged a father to stay put to continue to be a good and present father to his children.

All her encouragements made his decisions easier to make.

When XH stopped loving me, then he should have ended the marriage @PestoPastaLife before looking elsewhere.

There's never an excuse to cheat.

Yes it would have been hard.

The fallout his cheating caused is harder. DD should not be having to navigate this.

Who wants to know their dad is a shitty man who cheated on your mum?

A) life's not always so cut and dried. Can't think of any off the top of my head but yeah I'm sure there are reasons

B, if you were so " happily married" then he would've ignored the ", perusing"

C he's an adult and quite able to make his own decisions. Small children can be " encouraged" but a grown man shouldnt. He obviously wanted to go.

People on MN will always find a way to blame you. You are supposed to rise above being fucked over and let him and the OW live their best life,

For the umpteenth time, XH made his decisions.

I know this and am not denying this.

OW helped those decisions to become easier to make for him.

Why is this so hard for some posters to comprehend?

'young daughter'? That makes her sound like she's 5, not 20. I do agree the OP probably shouldn't tell her that the OW isn't nice, as she should already know that quite well...but I think reminding the DD that the OP doesn't want to hear her cheating ex or his cheating OW being talked up and praised for obvious reasons, is entirely reasonable.

You're right @AuroraBloom

Which amazes me, as OW who know what they're doing rightly get the vitriol they deserve on other threads.

So your ex is weak?

My father was a terrible father. And a terrible husband.

For a while after his death I thought that meant he was a terrible person overall. But I was wrong. My father was an amazing friend to his friends. He was a wonderful brother. He was a great uncle to one of his nephews.

One of the learnings of recovering from my father's suicide brought me is that human beings are seldom just one person. We are many different people. The person we think we are is one of them. But there are as many "yous" as people you inteact with. A man can be a terrible husband for you, and a wonderful partner for the next person. Can be a terrible father to your daughter adn a great one to his son. Can be an amazing friend to a friend. A wonderful son. A great co-worker.

Some days after my father took his own life I went home (I live in a different continent) and was sitting outside of the shop he used to work in, trying to make sense of everything that had happened in the last days. A man I didn't know walked to me, openly crying, and gave me a bear hug (I am from a country where physicality is much more common than in the UK, so this was not completly shocking). "You are XXX's DD! I remember seeing you when you were much younger. Your dad loved you SO MUCH, he was so proud of you, he was always talking about you. He was so funny, and he helped me so much when my daughter was in hospital. I cannot believe what he has done. I am so sorry!". Initially I was just about to correct him about loving me so much and being so great. But I stopped myself. This man's grief was genuine, as was his friendship with my father. We talked for hours and I got to meet a side of my father I very seldom saw at home: the jokey, funny, loyal, man's man that this friend had known for many years. That person was as real as the person who I remembered, yelling in my face that I was retarded, that I was worth nothing and if I died no one would care. The man I remember smashing all my sister's toys with his bare fists when she took too long to get ready to school.

It was the same man, and yet it wasn't.

I could have told his friend all these things. But the only thing I would have achieved was to taint the memories he had of my father. This man had the right to keep the version of my father he always knew. I had no interest in destroying his love for him. The friend he remembers is as real as the grumpy, psychologically abusive father I remember myself.

Your Ex-H was a shit husband to you. And he may have been a shit father to your DD (that's her judgment to make). But the woman he chose to cheat on you with may be a great friend to your DD one day. Your vision of her may not be the one your DD experiences.

But there is nothing about this woman that she doesn't know and she's not a danger.
You just don't want her having anything but negativity towards her because your husband cheated with her. It's understandable but that doesn't mean it's right. You can think and do what you want regarding her but so can your daughter.

You don't need to say anything. You've got no new information. You just want to control what your daughter does with the information and that's not in your remit.

If you've been here five minutes you'll know MN hates OW, far more than cheating men. The issue is not that people think she's wonderful, it's that you are trying to weaponise your daughter against her dad because of your history with him. And that is not right or fair on your daughter, and ultimately it is likely to make her resent you.

Talk to your friends about your pain, but leave your daughter out of it. He's her parent too.

(Fucking hell, don't share those nasty videos with your daughter either. Similar reason, really...)

I think I'd have quite a bit of resentment if my dad had moved a 10 hour flight away to be with the OW.