Would you continue dating a man who has a child he doesn't see?

[VelvetPetals11]

I’ve recently started seeing a man in his late 20s and there’s something he told me that’s left me feeling quite conflicted. I’d really appreciate some opinions.

Sorry, this is going to be a long one, but I wanted to include as much detail as possible so people have the full picture.

We both live in the US, although he’s originally from the UK. We’ve only been on one date so far, but it went really well. He’s a little shy, but lovely to talk to, has a good job and seems to have his life together. We have loads in common, similar interests and values, and seem to want the same things in life. I genuinely haven’t met someone I’ve clicked with like this in a while.

However, during our date he told me he has a son back in the UK who he hasn’t seen for six years.

Obviously that caught me off guard, so I asked him about it.

He explained that when his son was conceived, he was in a really bad place. He was severely addicted to alcohol, drinking almost every day and regularly blacking out. His mental health wasn’t good either, and he wasn’t remotely ready to become a dad.

He said the relationship with his ex wasn’t particularly healthy. Apparently she’d often spoken about wanting a baby, including saying she wanted one so she’d never be alone, and had told him she didn’t think she could get pregnant.

He said looking back at that time is difficult, especially because he was drunk so much of the time. But he didn’t accuse her of trapping him or anything like that.

One thing I did respect was that he said he doesn’t believe in speaking badly about someone he once loved, even if things ended badly. He acknowledged that he’d made plenty of mistakes himself.

Anyway, they separated, she eventually got into another relationship and told him she didn’t want their son knowing who his biological father was.

He never went through the courts to try to establish contact, which is probably the part I’m struggling with most.

His explanation was that he was in a terrible place mentally at the time and was frightened of making an already complicated situation worse. He later moved abroad to start a new life, and between getting sober, rebuilding his life and establishing himself in another country, the years went by.

He also worries that suddenly reappearing in his son’s life after so long could potentially cause more harm than good, especially if his mother is against it.

However, he told me he’s been thinking about his son a lot recently and is looking into speaking to a solicitor to understand his options and whether trying to establish contact would be in his son’s best interests.

He does pay child maintenance.

He also told me he writes birthday and Christmas cards and letters to his son, even though he can’t currently give them to him. He keeps them in case his son ever wants to know him in the future.

He also puts money aside in a separate savings account for him.

When he was talking about his son, he became noticeably quieter and seemed genuinely upset about the situation. I didn’t get the impression he was proud of how things had turned out.

He’s now been sober for five years, has a good career and seems to have completely turned his life around.

We also spoke about what we want from life. He said he’d love to get married and have a family one day, but wouldn’t rush into having children. He’d only want to do that in a stable, loving relationship where both people were completely ready and genuinely wanted it.

He made it clear that he doesn’t see his son as a mistake. He just wishes the circumstances had been different and that he’d been in a better place when he became a father.

So this is where I’m torn.

On one hand, I really like him. He seems kind, thoughtful and genuinely lovely to be around. We have so much in common, and I admire the fact that he was upfront about something that obviously doesn’t paint him in the best light.

On the other hand, he has a son he hasn’t seen for six years, and I can’t pretend that doesn’t bother me.

I know people can change, especially after overcoming something as serious as addiction, but I also wonder what this might mean if we eventually got married and had children ourselves.

Would you be willing to look at the person he’s become, or would the lack of contact with his son be too much of a red flag?

Would you continue getting to know him?

I’d really appreciate some honest opinions.

You can do better than him.

I think that OP says that he's paying child maintenance?

Also, he's putting money away for this child, as well as keeping cards etc for him.

Isn't that taking some responsibility?

Wouldn’t touch him with a 10ft pole. Looking into getting legal advice? Wise up, he’s had 6 years to get advice; he could have got advice this morning, you don’t need to look into getting advice. This is just something he says to not look like a shit.

He wants to think he’s a good guy, so he tells himself these lines. Simple fact is he has a child he hasn’t bothered with.

I can't advise what steps to take, but I have to say that I'm with you OP, and tend to see the best of people, although not always with the best results. I find it very strange that he's paying maintenance but he is not allowed any contact. In doing so he is obviously aware of his responsibilities. I also think it positive that he's corresponding.

You've had one date. Give it some thought and then you may feel that you'd perhaps like to have another one. If you do I'd try to retain some degree of reservation.

He hasn’t made any changes?

Run.
He has a child he doesn’t see- hmm not ideal.. he also has a history of alcoholism. What on earth would you hang around for??? There’s several threads on trending this morning from women who are pregnant or have a young child with an alcoholic- read those and learn from their experiences that this IS NOT GOING TO END WELL.

Nope, from my experience men who dont see their kids are a huge red flag. You'll soon see why. My ex said similar about his kids but turns out he was abusive to them so they didnt want to know.

All that back story and he's only late 20s. He's had an eventful life, hasn't he.

he’s in IT of some kind really? Does he have any actual qualifications?

you must be mad contemplating getting involved with someone with that amount of bullshit to their name.

You’ve had one date how on earth can you believe everything he says is true ? He’s hardly going to put himself in a bad light is he? Wake up OP you hardly know him!

You don't want to hear what people are saying because you are clearly desperate to believe everything he has told you but why take the risk?
He's a former addict with a son he has never bothered to see.

Why hasn't he made more effort in six years? He's got a lot of excuses for it of course...

Move on and find someone without this much baggage at a young age, it's just not worth it.

So many "but..." replies...
He's a massive red flag.
OP, there are some good men out there, keep looking

op. if this man was as half as cool as he wants you to think he is then he would have known this conversation was coming and that anything other than ‘i am making amends as i speak’ would give too much away about the actually reality of what is really important to him. we can see he wants you to think well of him, thats not unusual, almost all terrible people wouldn’t want you to think badly of them too. i’m wondering if the sons’ mother would have a less flattering rendition of how it went down and how poor op couldn’t cope with a relationship with his child for ‘reasons’.

Wouldn’t touch him with a 10ft pole. Looking into getting legal advice? Wise up, he’s had 6 years to get advice; he could have got advice this morning,

yes! great cut through. you can imagine him spluttering

No.

Even if he’s telling the truth he’s completely overshared for a first date. And yet in other areas you know nothing, e.g. he does something in IT.

Also, if you have a healthy relationship with alcohol would you want to be with a recovering alcoholic and unable to drink yourself?

The son story could, maybe, possibly be true. But it paints him in a bad light that he didn’t fight for access at the time, chose to leave the country and even now is contemplating about thinking about doing something.

Young me might well have thought, oh he’s so deep, he’s shared all this with me, we must be special. Take it from old me, life doesn’t have to be this complicated, step away now.

Hi OP,

Loneliness is an absolute Achilles heel for so many of us. I have been away from Mumsnet for 6 months, although I have continued lurking. I rejoined when I read your first post because I felt so much sympathy and concern for you.

Lots of things about your post make pursuing the relationship unwise. No matter how sad he is about the situation and convincing his reasons, there are some observations I have made that might be helpful to you.

1. You were sceptical enough about what you know of this man to start a thread on the famously robust Mumsnet to garner opinions on what you had heard.

* Without any other factors, that is concerning, all by itself. I don't know you, so I can't accurately judge whether you believe him, but still want to go ahead, or whether you disbelieve him but are looking for permission to gaslight yourself so that you can start a relationship which offers you at least some companionship and emotional warmth. Nobody can stop you from doing either of those things, but your lack of faith in your instincts, which are our warning system is very concerning. You should trust yourself, because otherwise you are building a dynamic whereby he will be able to psychologically abuse you very easily as you are silencing your 'inner emergency service,' which will mean that if you do need to read your internal barometer, it will be unreliable because you are questioning it and will lose faith in yourself. Part of you is screaming that you don't think it's a good idea and you are arguing with experienced, intelligent woman who are trying to help you to protect yourself.

1. If everything he says is true, he is still carrying a lot of baggage which will make him sad. Regardless of how responsible he is for the situation evolving like this, he will have to share the pain of that with you and any partner naturally wants to support their other half. How do you know that you won't excuse terrible behaviour further down the line, because he misses his son? I am not stretching to get to this point and I could very easily be wrong. However, you won't know until it's too late and by then your relationship with yourself and instincts for what you need to feel safe will be eroded, damaged and weakened. This will impact your ability to leave the situation.

1. Some people are cursed by addiction issues, which cause massive problems in his life and the lives of people he loves, or has loved. You know enough about his story to be aware that his addictive behaviours have had an influence on ending a serious relationship and being unable to spend time with his son. It is clear that this upsets him, but he is laying the groundwork for you to assuage his guilt every time the situation arises and rather than having to look himself in the face and say,

"You behaved like an utter wanker towards your ex and your child," you are being primed to ease his conscience and make him feel better.

1. Did any of his narrative about his child focus on his son's unfair deal in life, having a father who deserted him for a career opportunity and chemical escapism from guilt through drugs, alcohol and unwise company. He is showing you how he copes when life is difficult. This will mean that when similar issues arise with you, he can do the same thing (in whatever form) and you will be programmed to pity him enough to ignore your own feelings about it and even when you allow yourself to connect with how you feel about his behaviour, you will doubt your perspective, be so dependent on his approval that you maintain the relationship anyway and the disrespect you are showing yourself by ignoring the part of your brain that doesn't want to proceed will grow, as will the ability to disregard your own wellbeing.

Anyone who influences our ability to act with good judgement needs screening out for the sake of our future selves.

1. A close friend of mine has no contact with her children because they were abused by a family member who she was also responsible for. Her children are angry that she maintained the relationship with their abuser, despite in being beyond her control. Her own mental health suffered enormously because of the conflicts involved in protecting those she loves. She doesn't tell many people as they are unlikely to understand and had I not witnessed the events, I don't think she would ever have revealed it. She is generous and it is an onerous burden, but not one she expects me and her small circle to bear, although we are happy to support her in different ways, but not in any which are challenging for us.

He is already basically saying to you,
" Please make me feel better about my relationship with my son and the way I've treated (and continue to treat) him and his mother."

1. I don't think he believes his own excuses, so he is setting you up to ease his suffering. This is already massively disrespectful and abusive. The message may well be that you will become the person who denies what is perhaps the deserved guilt and shame of abandoning his parental role. This is a premeditated abusive relationship in the making.

1. The friend I mentioned earlier is very aware of why her children won't speak to her. She refuses to indulge in self pity and knows that she is perfectly entitled to miss them and feel sad, because she loves them, but she doesn't ask for anyone to soothe her pain, other than occasionally to listen to her way of dealing with it. She has said many times that their anger will help them to heal and that they need a narrative about their lives, which acknowledges their pain but ultimately helps them to heal, so it has to match their perspective on their experiences. My friend is shrews enough to know that their anger will be very deep and the only way they can heal is by using it to drive them on and make good lives for themselves. She is proud of their strengths and that they are able to protect themselves, even from her. She is comforted by knowing that she has instilled enough self respect in them that they are strong enough to do it and is proud of their intentional motivation and sense of agency. Sometimes it is excruciating for her, but she's determined to find ways to access those feelings of love and pride towards them as it maintains a positive emotional relationship with the, however distantly.

1. Her own childhood was awful and she knows that because of that, she has had to learn coping mechanisms which are useful, but damaging long term, such as using flattery as a persuasion tactic with parents and older children who wouldn't meet her very normal needs as teenager. This has led to her being seen as insincere and manipulative, but she is has enough integrity and intelligence to be proud of surviving. She was also forced into a Pollyanna role, which as above forces a person to deny their own experience of reality to make others feel better about rubbish circumstances, which also makes her unpopular. Even so, she cannot bear to be pitied for it as she wants to admire her children, rather than seeing them as villains. There are of course times where she feels her children have behaved cruelly, but she is proud of their strengths and comforted by knowing they can protect themselves. She is determined to use all the pain as constructively as possible. Where is your date's admiration for his ex, or the realisation that despite his youth and the eventual outcome, he picked a really good woman? He could choose to take responsibility in a healthy, whole and authentic way. His self pity is corrosive and toxic.

1. Looking at all this, your questions about whether his negative aspects count for anything, I would say that no, they don't. Would you dream of walking across the following bridge? In recent years, it has been so badly damaged that it's had to be completely rebuilt as a consequence of poor design and materials? The design and the bricks were subpar initially and a combination of too much traffic, too frequent use and a rebuild which included the same inferior tools, design, material and labour. Random, severe weather events and high footfall caused further issues as did a lack of repairs and maintenance, by inadequate, poorly trained workers.

OP, this present you and future you deserve so much more. If he was already in your circle and I would say just laugh at his jokes and give Xmas cards. However, with his attitude, I would do it from social obligation rather than warmth.

Take good care OP, you deserve so much better and a fulfilling single life with the occasional pocket of boredom and loneliness is vastly preferable to what some women have to endure.

I think that OP says that he's paying child maintenance?
Also, he's putting money away for this child, as well as keeping cards etc for him.
Isn't that taking some responsibility?

the cm is routine and he wouldn’t be working in the States without them having had access to certain records in the uk so that’s not a green flag thats just something he couldn’t avoid but probably would do if he could.

cards in a box. isn’t that just a trope he is trotting out? not a website he's built with videos and poetry? no. just what happens in disney.

he may feel a bit shit about it and this pathetic narrative satisfies his poor moral compass. but as is the case with losers, they can feel a bit terrible about how lousy they are but very quickly justify it. thats why they’re losers because they can’t learn.

Would depend on what I was looking for out of the relationship.

If I wanted a long term relationship with potential for marriage and kids, then definitely not. If I knew I didn't want kids and was happy keeping things fairly casual, then yes I would.

Littlesongbird has definitely hit on something there, his judgement is also poor, to add to his characteristics.

He's been sober 5 years. Why hasn't he done something sooner then? Why not a year ago? "Looking into" getting advice is so wishy washy. That, and being an alcoholic (you're never fully recovered) would be a no for me.

Doesnt see his kid and he is an addict in recovery? Girl you need to run!

No.

This is really odd first date conversation. That alone rings alarm bells.

If he is serious about being part of his so sons life he should be moving back to the UK. If he’s not doing that then that tells me everything I need to know.

He's telling you what he thinks you want to hear - and he's getting it spot on. Everyone here is telling you this is a huge problem and after just one date you are ready to ignore all of that for his platitudes.

Looking into getting legal advice means nothing. Having legal advice, paying for a solicitor is what he should have been doing and he he should not have waited 5 years.

He says he doesn't believe in speaking badly about someone he used to love - just because he's not saying it, doesn't mean he's not thinking it. He is telling you he thinks badly of her without saying it.

This woman got pregnant by an alcoholic, was then left to dela with a newborn alone, toddler hood, nursery, school all while he was off in America carving out a career but he supposedly throws her a few quid because he's made to by CMS and that's ok?

If they were in love why can't he have been sending cards, he must know her family even if their relationship deteriorated or did they all move house secretly when he got sober?

And finally, an alcoholic is always an alcoholic. A good stretch sober is great but a period of stress or grief could so easily out him right back there. This is not a place you want to be. Worried about the next stressful thing that might make him drink, is he hiding it from you, is he drinking in secret. Addicts are deceitful, skilled liars and it spills into everything they do and say eventually.

You need to seriously raise your bar. You can do better than this.

You’ve clearly made up your mind so why are here?

honestly he sounds like the type of man who will ruin your life. Wake up - this is not a romance novel

Even if everything he said is true which it probably is, everything is very ‘one day I will’ with him, isn’t it? Even if the child and the mum don’t want him, waiting for solicitors etc seems like the ultimate in procrastination- the letters he’s written, the money he’s put aside- there’s a little boy over the other side of the world (and also he hasn’t exactly mentioned moving to be close, has he?) those cards and that money isn’t helping him right now. And op, it is only one date, I think people trying to figure everything out in one date is a recipe for disaster