I'm in a bit of a difficult situation, 're jealousy from friends' partners.

[Appalonia]

this is a bit of a long tale, so please hear with me. I'm single and I've been doing a hobby for the past 5 years. During this time I've become friends with 2 guys whom I've met through it.. I became friends with one guy as he used to give me a lift home afterwards, as I don't drive and he lived on my way home. The three of us often went for a drink after, we all got on great, just as mates.

However, recently it's all got rather complicated, all behind my back

So, in June, one of these guys, let's call him Pete, told me that his girlfriend
( whom I had met 7 times, and we'd always got on great ) had banned him from seeing me outside the classes/ group that we went to, as she was jealous of me. I was really shocked as I had no idea she felt like this. He only told me as if asked him if he was interested in going to an event related to the hobby and he was being a bit non committal about it. He said he was starting to feel controlled and suffocated by her demands. It just felt so stupid to me, as there was never anything between us, at all. It almost broke them up, but eventually they did reconcile. She admitted she had trust issues, due to her having been cheated on before. I've tried to be a good friend to him and help him work through it, but tbh I feel pretty pissed off with her for affecting our friendship, over nothing.

So tonight, we went out for a drink and he tells me that the wife of the other guy in our hobby group is ALSO jealous of me. This shocked me even more, as this is the guy that used to give me a lift home. Apparently, she didn't like the fact that other people in the pub that the 3 of us used to go to, would see him with another woman, which is the reason why she then started joining us in the pub after our weekly group.

I've just never experienced anything like this before, I've always had male friends and to me they were just mates. I now feel in a really awkward position knowing how the partners
both feel about me. I don't want to give up my hobby and I'd like to somehow sort it out with these women, but I don't know how.

I've never flirted with these men, as I said, I never saw them as anything more than mates. This only came out tonight as if found out the 4 of them had gone out for a drink without me, whereas before, we'd all have gone out together. Pete very reluctantly told me about how this other woman was feeling about me and then it all made sense.

I feel upset, excluded and most of all, feel like I'm being penalised but I haven't done anything wrong! I don't know how to make this situation any better. I have no romantic interest in these men whatsoever, I like them as people and they're the only people I have to share this hobby with, which I don't want to give up.

I don't really know what I'm expecting from this thread, but any advice would be gratefully received.

Sadly it can be fairly typical.

In some cultures, people are brought up with the belief that men and women can’t be friends and there’s always something inappropriate to it. They also sincerely believe that single women are looking for a partner… in everyone!

I also find that women that are friends with men can be looked down upon by some other women, as single sex socialising is the norm in many circles.

When I first learned this I was quite shocked and saddened, as this certainly wasn’t something I was brought up with, quite the opposite, I was thought that every human being inherently carries value in their personality and contribution, and the sexual/ attraction aspect is somewhere far in the background in day to day interactions.

For some people, they see the sexual/ attraction aspect as the primary driver in everything, and assume that social interaction must be sexually motivated, why else have them.

Single sex social convention massively holds women back as they are removed from male dominated circles, where in the UK most money and power is still concentrated.

To give you an example, ‘the big boss’ at work is no longer having private meetings with me in his office as ‘the optics are not good’. This was after some people commented that he must fancy me because of the way he interacts with me.

What you do going forward depends on how much flack you’re willing to take.

However I’d say that if these men are moving away from you because of ‘orders’, they’re not the kind of people you want to be friends with. More drama than it’s worth. You’re not going to be in a position to have a sensible conversation with anyone involved.

I’m sorry, it’s happened to me before and it’s tough and angering that many people still have 1950s views/ see men as only good for sex and relationships and can’t see them as people that support women who they’re not attracted to. Perhaps they’ve had only bad experiences themselves and don’t understand men talking to a woman they’re not trying to get with.

It’s angering but it’s not a situation you can reasonably sort out. Just find better friends and flaunt it 😉 Sending hugs

Pete is a disloyal shitstirrer. You can make better friends, and deserve them.

When the shit hits the fan, I guarantee Pete will make outrageous claims to his partner, such as, you were throwing yourself at him, to preserve his relationship.

Over the years, I relegated all male 'friends' into the acquaintance box, and never looked back. A couple were forthright in wanting sex, one eventually coyly asked if there was 'a chance' to sleep together. One would only get in touch to see if I could help with moving/packing/painting/decorating in exchange for pizza and a beer (fuck off), another didn't want to pay for therapy to work through his mummy issues (as above). In essence, all wanted something.

Unlike my female friendships, who enjoyed spending time with me as a person, my male friends needed a vagina, unpaid labour or a therapist. It took me to my late 30s to realise this, my 40s are serene, drama free with some amazing female friendships.

Look - you have no feelings for these men and I believe that. In my experience though married men do tend to get themselves in a pickle when they start paying attention to women outside the marriage - some men are easily turned. My DH sometimes goes for a drink with a woman (and other men) who do his hobby…but I can tell from his vibes that he has no romantic interest in her. If I sensed he was in some way sniffing around her in hopes of something more, I’d not be happy. I would trust that these women are getting a certain energy about you
from their husbands and pull back. If it is that they are both with controlling weirdos, still a good idea to pull back.

You have not done anything wrong. Perhaps the men have not explained themselves very well to the partners. I guess 3 is quite cosy compared to a large friendship group. However it is the married people’s issue not yours. I think the thing you have done “wrong” is that you are female and I presume single. Hence jealousy and questions from the partners. Carry on with your hobby but back off from the friendship if your friends can’t explain themselves very well friendship properly.

Men and women can be friends but they need to be incredibly respectful of appropriate boundaries

Chatting at the hobby is fine.

Needing lifts every week - pushing it

Being the person they confide their relationship problems in - definitely crosses the red line.

They’re just hobby colleagues really, why are you so invested in what’s basically casual friendships with them? Respect the fact their partners might be concerned you’re inserting yourself too much in their bf’s lives, even if you feel there’s no agenda on your part.

It's not your fault and the comments about not being friends with men are ridiculous. You don't live in Iran. However, this pair sound very wet with awful taste in partners and they clearly don't view you as a real friend, so I'd drop them or cool it for being arses.

They really don’t, you know. My friends’ marriages, male or female, are none of my affair, unless I’m also friends with their spouses. I certainly don’t tiptoe around the potential sensitivities of someone I’ve never met or barely know, in case she’s under the impression I am for some reason desperately sexually attracted to her husband, and have successfully concealed this for many years — decades in some cases. That’s his issue to manage, not mine! If he tried to make it my problem, I’d be rethinking the friendship on the grounds of him making emotional ‘work’ for me.

In your shoes, OP, I’d just take a ‘Not my issue — you sort out your marriage’ position, and continue the hobby as before.

I think @VoltaireMittyDream has hit the nail on the head.

It’s absolutely fine to have platonic male friends.

But it’s he’s investing in you emotionally, talking to you about private issues involving his partner behind her back, telling you that all the women are jealous of you……. then he is overstepping boundaries and breaking the trust of his partner. You need to really think about his motives here.

My husband has female friends and colleagues and I have absolutely no issue with that, never experienced worry or jealousy. However if I found out that he was emotionally sharing with one female friend, confiding in her, talking to her about our private relationship problems etc….. then I would absolutely not be ok with that and alarm bells would be ringing.

I get this quite a lot tbh.

My hobbies are quite male dominated and so it’s common for me to make male friends.

IMO as long as you’re not crossing a line and being flirty etc then it’s not your problem.
It is between the guy and his partner to work out what boundaries they’re comfortable with and then respect them.

Some people are just batshit, paranoid and jealous.
I have had 3 different sets of neighbours ban their DHs from saying hi to me (and literally just hi I’d never had a conversation with any of them) because they apparently fancied me, like I’m the problem.

But I also know many women who love me and know that I would never consider going for a man in a relationship and so they feel completely comfortable with me being around their DPs.

I’m spending a week in a villa with 4 guys and 1 other woman and their DPs are absolutely fine with it.

If you can have some sort of relationship with the women, I think it does help but some people are just jealous (for good reason or not) and so it’s not really your problem.

AnonAnonmystery · Yesterday 21:47

I suggest you maybe stop hanging out with married men? You are not the victim here, I wouldn’t like the level of “ friendliness” with my partner.

This is a woman (i assume) writing exactly that though.

People are just odd.

Wow.

Are you saying men and women cant be friends?

Eh?

You think its ok for a single man to hang out with a married woman, offering 'support and advice' while she slags off her husband who 'doesn't understand' her?

Er... right....

This. Stuff like “I was pretty pissed off..”. You are overly invested in friendships with two guys you met through a hobby. That’s the problem. You’re too intense and that’s why there s an issue.

Not because all women are possessive and jealous freaks. Both these men’s partners have made it clear they feel you have overstepped. Id take a massive step back, no more lifts and drinks and focus on the wider group or just go and enjoy the hobby and go home.

It is not I who is saying they can't be friends. It is her majesty Biology saying they can't be friends. As well as the wealth of literature, but I am inclined to trust Biology more.

My DH still meets up with his ex boss who is a woman. Same as he meets up with some men he used to work with. I have never for one second felt that there was anything inappropriate about it because she very clearly has her own life. They met up in a normal BAU way for a catch-up.

Unlike the Op I know my DH’s friend isn’t overly invested in him or his life from the way DH speaks about her. I think that is the issue here.

Its not (only) that you're a woman and they're men, its the level of intimacy and commitment, ave the fact that you have deliberately developed these new friendhips with married men. Itd be a bit different if they were old mates from uni or something.

You're meeting them every week for a cosy drink (rather than the whole hobby group socialising), relying on them for lifts and intimately discussing their relationships. They are choosing regular quality time with you over their partners.

I'd not be surprised if their partners weren't happy - but Pete telling you 'my wife is jealous of you ' - come on now, were you born yesterday? What possible good could come of him telling you that apart from it might encourage you to cheer him up with a sympathy shag

Aren't "my wife doesn't understand me" and "my girlfriends crazy" the oldest man scripts in the book?

Men and women can absolutely be friends, i think in the real world though the friendship remaining a friendship will often rely on the woman setting the boundaries as (i'm not going to say all men) but a large proportion of men given the right signals will absolutely want to take it further...providing in most cases attraction or chemistry exists. So to put it bluntly

Women can absolutely be friends with Men
Men can absolutely be friends with Women provided they understand she's only interested in friendship.

As always there are exceptions to the rule, i'm sure there are women that would require the man friend to set the boundaries as well.

Both women have effectively banned their partners from spending time with you...hnmmm

Typically, there is no smoke without fire, whether you perceive it or not. Just back away, you shouldn't be "trying to help him through" his relationship issues!

I also think life stage is a factor. I think it’s very normal for men & women to be friends when younger. But making new opposite sex friends once you’re older and in a committed relationship is complicated.

Firstly, a lot of married couples especially if they have kids don’t have time for one of them to go to the pub after a hobby. My kids hobbies are the priority in our house. Secondly, as others have alluded to it’s very easy for your DH to sit down the pub and unburden himself to his friends about what a pain in the hole you are while you’re at home doing the work. And trust me you’re not special, if you were married to him, it would be the same.

And I don’t know why a single woman would invest this much energy in two attached guys. Go for the odd drink - fine. Go every week - ok but maybe it would be nicer for the two lads to go home. Start saying you are “pissed off” that the partner is upset and being upset the two couples went for drinks without you, knowing both women are pissed off - you are being inappropriate.

There are a few limited exceptions, men and women absolutely cannot have real friendships..sex / attractive almost always comes in the way.

In all my friendship groups, can't think of many where one person hasn't hooked up with another from the group at some point. Admittedly, this happened mostly in 20s.

Well, either the wives/girlfriends are putting a boundary on OP, or one of their partners is saying they are. The minute OP has to deal with the consequences of their insecurity, either the partner or the wife/girlfriend is making it OPs problem.

It is absolutely ok to have boundaries in relationships, like, "you don't talk about our sex life to other people" or "you don't kiss other women". Banning people from having friends or social connections of the opposite sex, though, is actually just sex discrimination. I know it is really normalised on MN, but it is really problematic behaviour. Men and women understand each other better if they can be friends (see e.g. https://doi.org/10.1007/978-981-16-0792-9_4) and men who have friends who are women are less likely to have hostile sexist attitudes (https://doi.org/10.1177/21676968221121165)--these are benefits to all of society in cross sex friendships. The risk of 'sexual tension' or 'I am more interested in my friend than they are in me' in cross sex friendships is tiny--less than 5% (https://doi.org/10.1007/BF01560277).

Calling controlling behaviour 'setting a boundary' is also really normal in abuse situations, as is 'doing it because I care'. See Jess Hill's book 'See What You Made Me Do' for more on this.

Normalising 'you can't see that person' as a relationship boundary is likely to harm women. Normalising friendships between men and women reduces sexist attitudes. But sure, crack on that this is totally ok and fine because it comes from a woman.

Agree with this. So many times I thought men were my friends only for them to eventually make it clear they would quite like to hop into bed with me.

I completely disagree.

Some women (and men) are just jealous people.

I know women who aren’t even allowed to go to the doctors by themselves or to a pub with friends just incase there is a man there and they cheat.

Some people are just controlling and jealous and the other person has done absolutely nothing wrong.

This is between the men and their DPs and it’s up to them to set boundaries and be respectful of each other.