August 2026 - Well we took you to Stately Homes

[AttilaTheMeerkat]

I have started a new thread as the other one is now full.

I was thinking about why I hate being with my partners family (parents and other brothers family) and why my whole body and mind feels like when magnets repel. The comparisons and the competition is at the heart of this family. You can’t even have a single conversation where something they say isn’t loaded. Even the other day about the height of their kids being something special. There’s me saying height isn’t a measurement of anything, it’s just genes. It made me realise that’s the thing isn’t it, they even believe their genes are special. I’m fed up of countering their bollocks continuously. They aren’t special, we aren’t special, Im
not special, we just common garden humans.

The saddest thing is the youngest of their kids has started talking in this particular manor. Speaking in comparisons. Her value is her specialness already. I have realised I need to keep clear as much a possible because this is very much a problem for me. I’m extremely equal as a person and I can’t help but react and they look at me like I’m stupid. I am stupid non-special contamination and they will never accept me. (I don’t believe this, I believe I’m a good human).
I can see how the narc creates an environment and the kids fulfil it and absorb it and they must feel so powerful feeling special. There value is in how they outdo others. But I know it will ruin all their relationships and affect how they perceive people and it already is. Insecurity is definitely at the heart because secure people don’t need competition and comparison. These people are so isolated in their specialness. It seems narcissism is counterproductive.

I also read this…Children raised by narcissistic parents often struggle with the social and emotional nuance required to understand the manipulation happening around them. This is why I think my partner doesn’t see it. He struggles with this in all aspects of his life. I often wondered if he is autistic or whether he is just socially under developed. He was bullied as a child but had no awareness. He is unaware as an adult in social situations when someone is not interested in what he’s saying. He misses all the social clues. I wonder if this has been caused by having a narc family or whether he is ND and in a way it has protected him from absorbing the narrative like his brother.

@MustIgo Whether there is an aspect of neurodivergence or not, the outcome is the same- your DH doesn't see that he is being manipulated. I don't think I am ND, but as the 'good girl'/people pleaser in a similar family it took me a very, very long time to see what was actually happening. I feel very uncomfortable about some of the things I allowed DH and our DC to put up with because I convinced myself that my parents were innocent victims (of GB1/GB2) who only treated me badly because they were under stress/needed more help/just needed me to be nicer etc. My DH always supported me but did tell me (gently) when he thought I/we were being treated badly, and encouraged me to see that there was another way. Even when I didn't see that my parents were part of the problem I was always clear that I wanted to bring my DC up differently so that was always the start point of discussions with DH. Does your DH have a similar view and are you able to gently plant the seed that perhaps stepping away from his family a bit could be good for all of you? I can see that you're in a very difficult position. Over the years my own FOO have often tried to argue that DH is attempting to control me and is the one who doesn't understand how 'proper' families work (usually when I have dared to say no to them) but I have always known that wasn't true.
My FOO also believe themselves to be superior in every way and compare everyone. Being 'clever' is their big thing and they will rewrite history/twist logic etc to be able to claim that they are clearly far more intelligent than anyone else. The logic they use to claim that they are 'better' is not applied equally to other people though. I think with my parents it stems from insecurity but with GB1/GB2 I'm not so sure- I do wonder if they are so narcissistic and have grown up being told they are superior that they truly believe it. It has not made them particularly successful because they have never wanted to actually work at becoming better at anything but have immediately given up when they are not treated as the best. My FOO are the least happy people I have ever know.

My H honestly hasn’t got a clue. He doesn’t view people in a competitive or comparative way so I really don’t have to worry about that respect. It’s so funny because we met and I did not meet his family for quite some months. His humility and his humbleness was what drew me to him having suffered at the hands of a narc man for a decade. His family are not like him at all. I don’t understand why or how he can’t see it. Well he knows what his brother is like etc but he just says oh well that’s just what they like. He is right and it does not affect him one bit (which is good). He doesn’t have a single competitive bone in his body which considering his family I do not understand how. I don’t understand how he’s come out so good. It must be the covertness, it’s somehow missed him. But then I see the kids in the other family, their dynamic is very similar. One shy child and one competitive child. I think maybe it’s personality because the competitive child is sounding more and more narc everyday. The other child may be lucky.

This is the controversy I don’t understand. The mum is social, centre of everything, needs attention (typical narc as we know it). But this is what she preaches to the kids. Keep your heads down, don’t need friends, don’t need hobbies, don’t need extra school clubs, don’t need drama, don’t need to prioritise other people. Basically keep head down and keep achieving, don’t be distracted by others….but she is distracted by others, she needs others so what’s with this teaching? Why is she teaching basically hate for relationships and friends but she constantly looking from people.

Is narcissism really serious abandonment issues? If they can tie a child to them, make the child centre them then they will never leave them, they will never have to deal with those feelings. I think that’s why the MIL hates me. She thinks I’ve taken her son away because I don’t want to live in her world.

@MustIgo I think in these sorts of family you will find a lot of hypocrisy. My DM always wanted everyone to see her as liberal, 'live and let live', and great fun- perfectly responsible and respectable but open minded and with a sense of humour. She would play up to impress her siblings, her friends and even my friends. She would tell people (sometimes including me, frequently DF) to lighten up and not be boring. But behind closed doors she would talk about everyone, judge everyone, keep a firm control over what I was allowed to do and insist that I shouldn't behave as other young people did because I was 'better'. At the same time that she was trying to be liked and wanting to impress everyone she was telling me to stop being attention seeking etc. It was very confusing as a teen, but I can see now that there was a disconnect between how she wanted to be viewed and what she actually believed.

I think she wanted others to think she was a laid back, fun mum who encouraged me to do whatever made me happy, but that it just so happened that what I really wanted to do was be a 'good girl' and put everyone else first. It sounds like your MIL could be similar. I had a bit of a wake up call when planning my wedding. The discussion went a bit like this
Mum in front of PIL and friends- 'You must have the wedding you want, no one but you and DH matters. Don't worry about what everyone else wants, not even me (head tilt, laugh etc). There are so many places you can get married nowadays and so many ways to celebrate, you should decide what makes you happy.'
Mum a few weeks later, with no audience 'I don't know why (DH) is getting involved in all of this. He should just be pleased that you turn up and say 'I do'. You are acting like this wedding is about you and it's not! This wedding is about your family! You will be doing it properly or not at all!'

But why have 2 different worlds? Or do they just not want the world of family and reality, they just want the brand? Is family boring and not enough attention from it? From the outside the “brand” looks warm and healthy but on the inside it’s cold and left to fend for itself. Why not draw attention from inside your family and have nice connections. My kids will give you shed loads of attention as they full off love. Why does your mum know what a healthy family says and promotes but then behind the doors changes? Why not get attention from you helping you plan and put on a lovely wedding. All the people on the outside are strangers so who wants strangers over family…..

It feeds their ego playing up to everybody else. They get a kick from it I suspect. Dm is the same, she wouldn't dare say the nasty things she said to me infront of others. She will however feign a great deal of concern for the illness she has diagnosed me with. She will go to any lengths to avoid taking an iota of accountability along with my estranged sibling.

I think with my DM there's always been a bit of insecurity about who she actually is. In reality her beliefs are quite conservative and she has some very firm ideas about what is the 'right' lifestyle and the 'wrong' lifestyle, particularly for women (because you know, boys will be boys etc). But she desperately wants to be seen as cool and lovely so she pretends in public. As a result she expected me to keep to very strict rules, whilst pretending that it was all my own decision.

When the boys both behaved badly she excused and defended it, and expected me to join in covering up the worst of it, but would never acknowledge that they had done anything wrong. Publicly, small 'mistakes' were acknowledged and passed over as just letting them do their own thing, learn and grow. Privately my parents went to great lengths to make sure that much bigger things (including criminal behaviour) were hidden or explained away as someone else's fault. I think this was the other side of the same coin- the image of being the perfect parent was more important than confronting and dealing with the behaviour so they pretended it was all someone else's fault.

Just to add. All of this creates a completely baffling situation for a young person growing up. I suspect that it's not unusual in dysfunctional families and is part of the reason why so many of us spend years trying to understand what's expected of us and always feeling we don't measure up. It's also part of the reason that 'outsiders' often find it hard to believe it if we try to speak up. I think most of us have heard at some stage 'But your mum/dad/sibling is so lovely! They can't have meant to do that, are you sure that's what happened. Why don't you just sit down and all talk it through?'

I guess they have to do this because these close relationships are really places where they could be outed. I can understand why they have lots of distant relationships and can hold certain types down. I don’t understand why my SIL plays along. It is very obvious that there is no support or empathy from the in-laws. Despite the fact they are the golden family they have had about as much support as we have. Their kids don’t get time spent on them either. It bothers me that they tell everyone how amazing the family is because it’s not true but it doesn’t bother SIL for her kids to be used like this.

Part of me thinks I’m being a bit of a bitch. Perhaps it’s the peri and my hormones. But my family of origin was not like this. I don’t like the idea of my kids being used when they can’t be bothered to spend the time with them. They aren’t around for any support, they disappear when it gets hard. They aren’t interested in our lives. When I had the kids the mum never visited me, never asked despite the pregnancy being difficult how I was. No hugs, no touch, no eye contact no nothing. It has closed me off and I’ve sort of included my kids in this as protection. But I’m not sure if I ask too much or I am right.

@formalwellies it is great to read that you have managed to pull yourself out of the whole situation, and you come across as very strong and determined in that.

With regard to the difference between the behaviour of family members in the outside world and at home. I think it is as simple as them having the power at home. With you being the child, they are automatically in control and looked up to. Until you grow up of course. At the core of all their behaviour is a deep insecurity IME, so to the outside world they try to look good. Inside the home, the mask comes off and they are themselves. They use one of the children/family members to make themselves feel better, and for that they need to take the other person
down a peg or two. The person who they feel threatens their self-image. In that way, they can feel confident that someone else is stupider, uglier, weirder, more useless than them, whaetever their own issue of insecurity is. A normal relationship with anybody will simply not work because of the massive hole in themselves. I don’t think it is intentional in most cases.

It is baffling, though, to me, that so many people are OK living a life without love or affection. To me, that is no life, I would rather not live then. But again, I guess they are also deeply insecure on the inside. If they'd step away from the dynamic (golden children, other family members) and their superiority, who and what would they be? It all just seems pointless to me without love, but maybe they just don't need the love, but are content with 'security'. That is my DHs theory anyway.

All this I'm mostly telling myself at the moment, because I am struggling with seeing golden children in my and my husbands family having the fullest lives superficially, and doing well financially, without people seemingly seeing through them. But obviously there are a lot of other people around who are also emotionally stunted, so they would not notice, and it is easier to acquire money if you don't worry about feelings or other people.

They say that is why there is a rise in narcissism. They usually get what they want, money and power but at the cost of feelings and empathy. Apparently narcs are better off and suffer with less depression. Perhaps feelings get in the way of humans achieving. The way the world is going empathy is seems to be evolving away in pursuit of all this nonsense stuff. I am like you, love and security is what drives me.

@Mywhitedress Thank you. Being on this thread has really helped me. Obviously I'd rather none of you had bad experiences with your families but hearing about other people in a similar position helped me have the confidence to realise that I was no over-reacting and admit to myself that none of the excuses were valid. I feel I still have some big hurdles to get over. Mum is still calling me with demands ('but only you know how to do X! It will only take you a minute!) and I don't think GB2 has realised that anything has changed yet so I expect fireworks when the penny drops. Despite the very clear animosity I think he really believes that I have no choice but to remain entrenched.

@MustIgo re your SIL and her family. I wonder whether there is a similar dynamic in their own small family and the way your PIL operate seems normal? I think my brothers both had/have dysfunctional home lives too and also have a huge disconnect between the 'real' them and the facade. I don't know whether it's a product of upbringing or that underneath that's just their personality.

@formalwellies thats true wellies. This thread isn’t nice to read as we all wish the other people were not going through what they are going through. But it helps to know you aren’t the only one.

it’s two years now since I last saw any family which was my mum, when we visited the area to see a lot of people who weren’t then free. I’m living my life at home with my rescue cats can’t put myself through that again.

Wellies

How do you respond to your mother’s demands by phone now?. I hope you say to her something to the effect of Im sorry I cannot deal with this do you need to ask gb2.

Gb2 is too stupid to realise that you have stepped back as yet but it may well dawn on him.

With narcissistic people there is a primary need to control everything, receive fuel from all those around them and operate facade management. It’s all
performative with therm being at the centre of the universe with the rest being bit part players. In the Beckhams the dad’s a narcissist whilst his mother has turned many a blind eye. Their kids and their gfs are all told to appear at various events as part of maintenance of the family brand.

No wonder their eldest bailed but sadly for him he’s been ensnared by his narcissistic wife. Look at how she treats him and milks the cameras for all they’re worth.

I thought something was up with Beckham. But he doesn’t strike me as someone with trauma or insecurity. He didn’t seem like this long ago when he was unknown. I thought narcissistic people developed it when a child.

His father in particular treated him very badly in childhood and his narcissism now stems from that. He is not a nice person at all and cannot be trusted. It’s all performative in that household . I wonder if the others will ever be able to break away completely from their dad’s sphere: I doubt it and their parents also fund them.

I didn’t know that. I wonder if people just adapt to liking the performance. Those kids will be benefiting a lot from it and that’s quite alluring.

I know my SIL’s father was controlling. She doesn’t talk about him at all but she has mentioned this. I assume that’s probably why she can’t see what’s glaringly obvious about her partner. Her family have brought this up and she has cut most of them off. Its sad really. I could speak to her but it would make no difference. This is the love she is used to and she does benefit from him financially an
awful lot. The gap between what she posts on FB and the actual reality is bonkers. I don’t understand tbh but I’m not her. On social media the family looks perfect. I wonder if some women are happy to swop emotional support for money?

I wonder if some people are genuinely just very submissive and are happy to go along with everything. That isn’t me, I ask a million questions but that’s most likely the ND part. I know a lot of ND folk find it hard to simply follow something they don’t understand. Someone told me that’s why I had such a hard time with my ex. I never did as I was told and I struggled to understand why I should. When I left him he eventually said thank god! That does make me chuckle a little bit, must have given him a run for his money.

I think I under why it’s a personality disorder now. I never really saw it as one because I am the same person at home as I am outside…well I am more relaxed at home and more serious at work. They literally have 2 personalities, like DID. I thought the person at home was the same as the person I see in front of me. The person advertised was the same in the box when you take it home. They are not. Most people don’t take the person home that they see outside so they don’t see the version we do. They are actually mentally ill. I didn’t see it like this because they function quite well.