PIL and weird boundaries - am I right being uncomfortable?

[detestedDIL]

Does all this ring alarm bells for you about boundaries?

Have been married to DH for 12 years, together for 20. PIL started out fairly friendly but distant, and have got progressively less welcoming, more excluding, and more aggressively unpleasant towards me. FIL is very arrogant, entitled and misogynistic in an old school tie/ bulldoggish kind of way. MIL is terribly grateful for the attention he bestows upon her, and is inclined to use him to enforce things where someone might (resonably) say no. FIL very aggressively enforces what MIL would like, talks over any objections and isn't above a bit of aggressive shouting to make sure he's won.

MIL tries to be way, way too close to my DH and individual grandkids. MIL has always had weird boundaries, being overly close with DH and frustrated/angry that her daughter (SIL) has kept her distance since her teens. She kisses DH and grandkids all on the lips (including my 50 year old DH, ugh), treats them like dolls dressing them up, feeds them by hand, is suffocatingly physically close. Always wants them on her lap, always has an arm around one or more of them. Always wants time with them alone, away from the gaze of other adults. Was incensed when DH started organising his own doctor and dentist visits as a 30 year old. Wanted to go in and change his pyjamas and give him a bed bath when he was 44 and had covid when we were staying at their house, and got really angry with me when I repeatedly suggested he could do that himself and she should really probably try not to catch covid. She then crowed about having done it anyway expressly against my wishes when I went out, saying that DH is her son and she'll do what she likes.

FIL aggressively enforces her "right" to such closeness, and has been aggressive towards me since DS9 was a baby because I've repeatedly stonewalled/ grey-rocked any suggestions that MIL should have time alone with DS, and have never held him in place so MIL could kiss him on the lips (in fact I've always made sure he's nowhere near her when this seems likely).

One of SIL's children (aged 13) is persona non grata because he's challenged MIL's boundaries and the rudeness of FIL's enforcing. MIL no longer kisses this child on the lips, nor seeks physical closeness with him, interestingly. He stays out of her way at family gatherings. The other GC (including the 17 year old) are still very much enmeshed with her, all over her like puppies, and she lights up when they're around.

DH has multi-year parts of his childhood that he has blanked out, where he can remember literally nothing. He is too frightened of his father's response to tell his mother not to kiss him on the lips. Over the years she's said things like "It's to show he's all mine" to me, after she's ostentatiously smooched him. DH finds it intrusive but is too afraid of his father to ever tell her to stop.

MIL and FIL are very aggressive towards me because I don't allow DS9 to have unsupervised time with them: they've recently banned me from their house. DS9 goes to visit them with DH for a couple of hours at a time, when we visit their city once or twice a year. I have told DH that it will be divorce proceedings the instant that he ever allows DS9 to go off with MIL unsupervised. DH agrees that the attitudes are strange, and so far has successfully enforced zero time for DS9 alone with MIL or FIL.

This all comes across as very unhealthy, right?

Generally I try not to dwell on it all too much, but I know that at some point they will be demanding that DS9 visit them alone, and I really don't want that to happen. I also know that DH is likely to be unable to stand up to his father if FIL decides to force the issue.

Does FiL's aggression limit itself to shouting? If so, I'd be inclined to say in advance of any visit that you will all be walking out if he starts shouting, and make sure your husband is on board with that and prepared to follow up if necessary. If it goes into actual physical violence, you need to involve the police.

I know the Catholic Church has some wrong'uns. But in 50 years of interactions within it, ive never know a priest do lip kissing.

If this is your experience, im wondering if it is also your husband's experience. Has he been involved in something more sinister growing up?

It sounds like he needs extensive therapy and I think you're right to supervise your son around these people - at all times.

This is all very unhealthy. We are a very demonstrative family and do a lot of hugging and kissing, but NO ONE kisses anyone on the lips. It's just a hug, peck on the cheek or top of the head.

I agree it's very weird.

You know your husband is lying about not giving his mother alone time with your son when you're not there right? He has NO boundaries where his parents are concerned - you know that already. You need to do as you say and insist visits are on neutral ground with you present.

I wrote out then deleted a very long paragraph about my own overbearing in-laws, but suffice to say put boundaries in now. Better late than never!

Adding to the straw poll.

My parents were born in 40/50s. No lip kissing.

They had 1 elderly aunt who used to try to do this. The whole family learned to avoid her embraces.

Did I read it right that she did in fact change your husband's pyjamas and give him a bath at 44?
Why are you still married?
It's all seriously weird

@ChavsAreReal thankfully that's one area DH hasn't been exposed to. The priests I'm thinking of who seemed to kiss their parishioners and colleagues on the lips all the time - one is currently the main one of the local diocese (including schools, ugh); one was a priest at the Catholic chaplaincy where i went to university, another was at a church there where I auditioned for the choir and (thankfully) didn't get in; one is the one who presided at my grandmother's funeral back in 2001. I've never been tempted to go to a Catholic church anyway, but this is another reason I've not been tempted!

why on EARTH would you do that or think its a good idea? "Oh yeah lets facilitate a relationship between a child and abusers" Why the actual fuck?

That is not what being an adult is though. You are facilitating something abnormal between a vulnerable child and abusive/toxic adults without any protection. Your DH might agree with you in theory but you've have seen with your own eyes that he cannot say no to his parents. You need to be supervising your child at all times or he doesn't visit. That is the mature, adult thing to do.

Your DH definitely needs therapy before being in charge of DS around them. His childhood must have been really bad for him to have blocked it out. Scarily so.

Edit
It seems to be a theme - no lip kissing from relatives here either. The only lip kissing was intimate/sexual or the husband/wife off to work pecks.

I was born in 1960, my parents in 1928 and 1932 - no lip kissing from them or any of the relatives either. A peck on the top of the head was normal.

@godmum56 because until I wrote this thread down, I wasn't really seeing it that clearly. I was seeing them as people i dislike intensely rather than there being a more generally recognizable pattern here.

This is creepy, sounds like something from a Netflix documentary. You are right to not allow your children near them. It's totally unacceptable to kiss children on the lips when they don't want to, it's abusive. I would be worried about what has happened to your dh in the past. I would cut contact completely. If dh wants to see them that's up to him but I'd keep my children away.

Quite, I'm Catholic and never known a preist kiss on the lips. Totally inappropriate and there's no way a school would allow that to happen so I find that hard to believe in 2026. There certainly have been issues in the past so they have more safeguards in place now (as they should).

Why? Why do people do this? "These are bad people, but i want my child to have a relationship with them" Just Why??

I have told DH that it will be divorce proceedings the instant that he ever allows DS9 to go off with MIL unsupervised

I'm not sure i would have faith he would follow this.

@Theworldsgonemadagain No idea if he's doing it in the schools, however he is the priest overseeing the schools; but I was dropping some music off at the Catholic cathedral at the end of a service recently and he was there kissing parishioners, as I've seen him do with colleagues, on other occasions (when I've been there for musical purposes). He gives me the creeps.

OP, if you sat your DH down and said 'if my father had done (list everything MIL has done in detail) to me, and was trying to do it to a daughter of ours, what would you think of that man?'
I think he's also not seeing clearly because its his mum. It can be a lot harder to recognise sexually abusive behaviour from women because its less 'expected' and flipping the genders around (and the reason I say 'list everything' is because just saying 'imagine if it was my dad' on its own doesnt quite get the piint across) might really ring the bell for him.

I am sure I would not trust him to follow this.
It honestly worries me how many parents seem to not have faith in their own opinions.

@SorrellNightwind because, as I've said upthread, I wasn't seeing it clearly before.

I do see it clearly now.

And won't be allowing any contact in their house at all, and only contact in neutral locations, supervised 100% by me. And will be reducing contact to a bare minimum.

I'd go further. No visits, no contact from right this minute.

Comments all noted here, and almost all agreed with. I have to do other stuff now but will come back to the thread when I can. THanks for the responses.

I don't believe your husband doesn't remember whether his mum gave him a bed bath or not at the age of 44. The only way he wouldn't remember would be if he had COVID so badly he was passed out.

She obviously did do it because he's covering up for her with "can't remember". It's a way of lying that doesn't feel quite like a direct lie.

What a creep if my preist tried to kiss me he would get short shift!

Banned you from their house! I think they’re trying to split you and your husband, don’t let them! Whilst your husband is being a wet blanket, he’s literally had this since he was born and it’s hard to shake that (I know because I had the same conversation with my psychologist when I had other issues, and DH came up and how controlling his mum is, his dad is an enabler and wet lettuce).
they need to be held at arms length and you need to pull together as a couple against them, don’t let them win

Came on to say this.

Yiu are kidding yourself if you think there is no alone time happening.

What MIL wants, MIL gets.

remember that before any "pulling together" can happen, the partner has to realise that there is a problem and choose to put a stop to it. While he (partner) is still being controlled by his mother, he is part of the problem not part of the solution.