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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

PIL and weird boundaries - am I right being uncomfortable?

146 replies

detestedDIL · 02/08/2026 03:39

Does all this ring alarm bells for you about boundaries?

Have been married to DH for 12 years, together for 20. PIL started out fairly friendly but distant, and have got progressively less welcoming, more excluding, and more aggressively unpleasant towards me. FIL is very arrogant, entitled and misogynistic in an old school tie/ bulldoggish kind of way. MIL is terribly grateful for the attention he bestows upon her, and is inclined to use him to enforce things where someone might (resonably) say no. FIL very aggressively enforces what MIL would like, talks over any objections and isn't above a bit of aggressive shouting to make sure he's won.

MIL tries to be way, way too close to my DH and individual grandkids. MIL has always had weird boundaries, being overly close with DH and frustrated/angry that her daughter (SIL) has kept her distance since her teens. She kisses DH and grandkids all on the lips (including my 50 year old DH, ugh), treats them like dolls dressing them up, feeds them by hand, is suffocatingly physically close. Always wants them on her lap, always has an arm around one or more of them. Always wants time with them alone, away from the gaze of other adults. Was incensed when DH started organising his own doctor and dentist visits as a 30 year old. Wanted to go in and change his pyjamas and give him a bed bath when he was 44 and had covid when we were staying at their house, and got really angry with me when I repeatedly suggested he could do that himself and she should really probably try not to catch covid. She then crowed about having done it anyway expressly against my wishes when I went out, saying that DH is her son and she'll do what she likes.

FIL aggressively enforces her "right" to such closeness, and has been aggressive towards me since DS9 was a baby because I've repeatedly stonewalled/ grey-rocked any suggestions that MIL should have time alone with DS, and have never held him in place so MIL could kiss him on the lips (in fact I've always made sure he's nowhere near her when this seems likely).

One of SIL's children (aged 13) is persona non grata because he's challenged MIL's boundaries and the rudeness of FIL's enforcing. MIL no longer kisses this child on the lips, nor seeks physical closeness with him, interestingly. He stays out of her way at family gatherings. The other GC (including the 17 year old) are still very much enmeshed with her, all over her like puppies, and she lights up when they're around.

DH has multi-year parts of his childhood that he has blanked out, where he can remember literally nothing. He is too frightened of his father's response to tell his mother not to kiss him on the lips. Over the years she's said things like "It's to show he's all mine" to me, after she's ostentatiously smooched him. DH finds it intrusive but is too afraid of his father to ever tell her to stop.

MIL and FIL are very aggressive towards me because I don't allow DS9 to have unsupervised time with them: they've recently banned me from their house. DS9 goes to visit them with DH for a couple of hours at a time, when we visit their city once or twice a year. I have told DH that it will be divorce proceedings the instant that he ever allows DS9 to go off with MIL unsupervised. DH agrees that the attitudes are strange, and so far has successfully enforced zero time for DS9 alone with MIL or FIL.

This all comes across as very unhealthy, right?

Generally I try not to dwell on it all too much, but I know that at some point they will be demanding that DS9 visit them alone, and I really don't want that to happen. I also know that DH is likely to be unable to stand up to his father if FIL decides to force the issue.

OP posts:
thepariscrimefiles · 02/08/2026 08:29

chirrupybird · 02/08/2026 07:53

Some families kiss on the lips, probably most don't. We never did it would be a hug and maybe a peck on the cheek, but I know families who always kiss on the lips, I assume it's just a quick kiss not a snog. To jump from that to incest is a bit of a reach. MIL and FIL both sound rather over bearing and MIL a bit overly affectionate to DS DGCs but I would say better that than the other way. You for some reason 'protecting' your DS from his GM seems a bit much really, do you really think she's a sexual predator who abused her son and wants to abuse her GS?

Thank goodness your interpretation of OP's repulsive in-laws' behaviour is a lone voice on this thread.

Do you really think that OP's MIL insisting on giving her adult son a bed bath against the wishes of his wife is normal behaviour?

She shows all the signs of being a sexual predator so Occam's Razor would lead to the conclusion that she is a sexual predator facilitated by her bully of a husband.

Imisscoffee2021 · 02/08/2026 08:31

I hope your husband realises he has power over his own body and finds the strength to realise he has his own family now, he doesn't need mummy and daddys approval. Its deep seated, it's textbook to feel enmeshed, and yes it'll be a big gang up on him for saying no but what's he losing really? The favour of two people who don't respect their own child, and who alienate and exclude his wife?

Imisscoffee2021 · 02/08/2026 08:32

Fedupandoldnow · 02/08/2026 07:47

Sounds like your husband could do with some counselling to have an external opinion on the weirdness/absence of normal boundaries and some support in standing up for himself. Otherwise it will probably all come flooding out when his parents die

Great advice.

SuzieGotYourNumber · 02/08/2026 08:35

RichPetuniaAgain · 02/08/2026 06:42

Just a small point here. I am one of your older mumsnetters, born in the 60s. When I was growing up, everybody kissed each other on the lips, it wasn't anything untoward. If your MIL is around my age, she'll view it as perfectly normal.

Are you in the UK? Because it certainly wasn't normal to kiss your parents on the lips where I grew up in the 60s - in Cheshire and the Midlands. Hugging wasn't really a thing either!

SalmonOnFinnCrisp · 02/08/2026 08:35

detestedDIL · 02/08/2026 04:03

@CypressGrove I'm inclined to agree, but I had been trying to be the adult here and facilitate a relationship between DS9 and his grandparents.

Why?
Stop immediately

Id be working hard to absolutely minimise contact.

The whole thing sounds totally fucked up and off the chart abnormal.
Why would you want your child exposed to thet?

You need to go LC and keep ypur child away from this crazy and your husband needs a therepist.

PurpleThistle7 · 02/08/2026 08:36

I actually can’t believe this has been going on so long and you’ve only reacted once they put their own boundaries down. Absolutely no change my child would be anywhere around them. In public, in their home, in my home. Absolutely not. None of them respect you and they’ll do whatever they want as soon as you aren’t literally right next to your child. Of course there’s more going on than you’ve seen and of course your husband isn’t keeping the boundaries when you aren’t there because he has no idea how to do that. I am sure that on these week long trips he can’t possibly be around your child the entire time. Your in-laws can be saying or doing anything.

And yes - see your point that if you leave then they’ll have more access as your husband can’t say no (because he was abused) so best to stay around to protect your child. But you need some more red lines and the first is that there are no overnights in their home. That can’t be debatable at all (this protects your husband too!).

Cismyfatarse · 02/08/2026 08:37

Can you speak to SiL? She grew up there and has distanced herself and her children? What does she know / advise?

Catdoorman · 02/08/2026 08:39

So your husband is still so traumatised by his childhood that he cannot defend himself from unwanted borderline incestuos touching from his mother, ( she pretty much violated him with a bed bath against your better judgement, and when he was too vulnerable to decline it) And is so afraid of his father that he still enables contact with these perverts and your minor child. He is reverting to his childhood status when he is with them, and that's why your son is at risk.

HumberSquid · 02/08/2026 08:40

CypressGrove · 02/08/2026 03:47

It's ridiculous that your DH won't tell his mother to stop kissing him on the lips because he's afraid of making his father angry. I wouldn't be letting my son go there without me knowing your husband is such a wet blanket because I wouldn't trust him to stand up for your DS when needed.

Wet blanket? It sounds like a traumatic response to abuse. Poor bloke.

somanychristmaslights · 02/08/2026 08:41

detestedDIL · 02/08/2026 07:57

@chirrupybird I genuinely don't know. On balance of probability she's just overly affectionate with boundary issues and FIL is just a bit of a sh*t, but the thing is I genuinely don't know. The dissociative amnesia in DH and the reaction to SIL and nephew distancing themselves does make me wonder a bit.

People don’t just blank out bits of their childhood for no reason. Something serious happened to your DH. And your DH is scared of his dad, even as a grown adult. What does that tell you?
absolutely no way would my son be seeing them without me there. And stop going to see them for a week. And book your DH some therapy!

detestedDIL · 02/08/2026 08:42

@PurpleThistle7 to clarify: on week long trips to visit them, we stay elsewhere, DH visits with DS for a couple of hours at a time, a few times per visit. In the past we have stayed with them and I have literally been at DS's side the entire time, partly because there wasn't any other option but also partly because I didn't trust MIL.

OP posts:
somanychristmaslights · 02/08/2026 08:42

Cismyfatarse · 02/08/2026 08:37

Can you speak to SiL? She grew up there and has distanced herself and her children? What does she know / advise?

This is a good idea, you need to arm yourself with as much info as possible to help your DH.

unbuttonedowl · 02/08/2026 08:42

She sounds so strange. That level of boundary pushing in a man would be completely understandably condemned but as a 'loving' grandmother/mother she's getting away with it. She sounds unhinged. I feel sorry for your DH. Stand by your boundaries though and ignore the tantrumming.

Vroomfondleswaistcoat · 02/08/2026 08:43

No child ever suffered terrible effects from not having grandparents in their life. Why exactly does your DS 'need' a relationship with his grandparents?

HumberSquid · 02/08/2026 08:43

SuzieGotYourNumber · 02/08/2026 08:35

Are you in the UK? Because it certainly wasn't normal to kiss your parents on the lips where I grew up in the 60s - in Cheshire and the Midlands. Hugging wasn't really a thing either!

Hugging was definitely a thing. Lip kissing wasn't unknown (depended on the family) but wasn't usual, cheeks or (children) foreheads were more common.

Viviennemary · 02/08/2026 08:49

Cora0 · 02/08/2026 03:58

This is disgusting and borderline incestuous and you need to go no contact. And your husband needs intense therapy to deal with his abusive parents.

I agree. Maybe you should think about reporting them to social services.

TheCactusSpokes · 02/08/2026 08:53

Not being able to remember huge swathes of your childhood is one of the red flags for dissociative disorders caused by major and repetitive childhood trauma.

I'd be keeping DS well away.

That said the changinh PJs and having a bath or shower were both things I couldn't have done myself when I had COVID (I spent four days lying on the bathroom floor unable to move until my GP realised I wasn't picking up my phone and came to check on me), it was horrendous and I wouldn't have cared who had showered or given me clean clothes and got me into bed at that point as I was so unwell

Sereine · 02/08/2026 08:58

RichPetuniaAgain · 02/08/2026 06:42

Just a small point here. I am one of your older mumsnetters, born in the 60s. When I was growing up, everybody kissed each other on the lips, it wasn't anything untoward. If your MIL is around my age, she'll view it as perfectly normal.

I really don't think that's the case. I'm a bit older than you, and I don't remember any time when "everybody kissed each other on the lips". Social kisses have always been on the cheeks at most.

SylvanMoon · 02/08/2026 08:59

I agree with the other PP that they're behaving in an inappropriate way with your DH and DC. If I were you, I'd be saying that since I was not welcome to visit them (and what possible reason have they given for this????) that my DC will not be visiting them either. Let your DH deal with the fallout. What's the worst that can happen here?

Eddielizzard · 02/08/2026 09:00

I'd be having a long chat with SIL and seriously consider going NC. It's not good for children to be exposed to this level of batshittery

Offherrockingchair · 02/08/2026 09:03

They’re a pair of old perverts and you all need to keep well away. Your DH may well be traumatized, but he’s an adult with choice and autonomy. He can choose for his children not to be subjected to the abuse he was. If he didn’t do this, I’d be considering divorce. Family or not, no one like this would be anywhere near my DC.

diddl · 02/08/2026 09:06

detestedDIL · 02/08/2026 04:03

@CypressGrove I'm inclined to agree, but I had been trying to be the adult here and facilitate a relationship between DS9 and his grandparents.

No one needs a relationship with abusers-and that includes your husband.

What does he get out of seeing them?

Is it really worth it?

Your 9yr old shouldn't be going with him if he won't/can't stop.

RoseField1 · 02/08/2026 09:06

RichPetuniaAgain · 02/08/2026 06:42

Just a small point here. I am one of your older mumsnetters, born in the 60s. When I was growing up, everybody kissed each other on the lips, it wasn't anything untoward. If your MIL is around my age, she'll view it as perfectly normal.

My parents were born in the 50s and never kissed us on the lips past babyhood. I think this is a you thing not an older generation thing.

justasking111 · 02/08/2026 09:07

Offherrockingchair · 02/08/2026 09:03

They’re a pair of old perverts and you all need to keep well away. Your DH may well be traumatized, but he’s an adult with choice and autonomy. He can choose for his children not to be subjected to the abuse he was. If he didn’t do this, I’d be considering divorce. Family or not, no one like this would be anywhere near my DC.

My mother's aunt and uncle were like this. It all blew up when auntie was found in bed with her son having sexual relations.

diddl · 02/08/2026 09:08

RoseField1 · 02/08/2026 09:06

My parents were born in the 50s and never kissed us on the lips past babyhood. I think this is a you thing not an older generation thing.

Parents born in 30s-no lip kissing!