Sick of men

[Sickofdating]

I have been dating on and off for 20 years, and I have yet to meet a single fully decent man. I've had several long-term relationships, and I've dated lots. And after a while, I’ve come to realise that there is something deeply wrong with almost every single one of them. My female friends, they're amazing. My female colleagues, amazing. I know it’s not universal, women can lie, cheat and be unpleasant.

But even my male friends are questionable now. I have old friends from university, and one of them, for example, has set up a fake email address so he can email me so that his girlfriend doesn't find out. My other close male friend from university locks our conversations at night, so if I message him, I don't appear in his notifications on his phone because he doesn't want his girlfriend to see.

I don’t have anything to hide! It’s mundane normal friendly messaging.

The last man I dated was going through a divorce. He had lied about how long he had been separated from his wife. Another man I met killed his wife. The number of married men at work who try it on. The list goes on.

I meet a lot of people in my life from all walks of life, and the one thing that seems to be pretty universal is that even among the really nice, decent-seeming men, there's always something hidden and wrong.

I also detest how much focus they put on looks and youth. Is there really no man with depth anymore?

To me, it's the little things I notice.

I've never had a woman visit for a cup of tea who didn't take her mug to the kitchen after - and normally they've brought something with them too.

One man, who was the husband of one of my best friends, took his mug to the sink - no other man (including my ex of course) ever did.

I hope that I'm raising my sons to think about who's putting in the work, but I worry that the issue is that they're used to mum doing it, and that they extend that to any woman who cares about them.

that raises an interesting question @FlatCatYellowMat . If it is about what the lazy shit half of men are used to and how they were raised then maybe it's worth thinking about the parents role in it too. I am raising my sons to be considerate and not expect things. their father never had to be "trained' either.

So I absolutely agree that men in general have done the majority of awful things in this world. Yet I know so many good men and I’m raising good sons. Not all men but is always men.

BUT in dating and relationships.. as women we don’t see what our female friends are like with their men in private. The things I’ve heard and witnessed from listening to male friends and family and people in dating etc. Many women can be very difficult. And vice versa.. men will just think their male friends are easy great guys but not see what they are like behind closed doors. So both sexes can despair.
I’ve dated a lot of men and been in relationships and they’ve been fantastic men. There’s a lot of good out there.

No, I don't.

because a marriage can only break down due to the men right? we've never seen a cheating wife or a crazy mom before have we? how delusional can we be?

I agree op, totally. But, on MN, a legion of women will come forth and insist it is YOU that is “attracting” these men. Not entirely sure how one “attracts” male relatives or colleagues, they are simply unavoidably, via blood or employment, in your orbit and…..shit whilst in it. But you aren’t supposed to notice or to somehow blame yourself for their shitness? Utterly laughable and unfortunately does nothing to address the issue.

it's great to read this. I am growing so sick and tired how most women automatically woo woo each other not knowing if they are nightmare partners in their private life. no they are all easygoing goddesses.
bottom line is there are horrible husbands and godawful wives out there.

Yikes, I never think about taking my mug to the kitchen in a friend's house. Have never given it a nano-second's thought

I suppose it’s easier to believe that every man is awful. I imagine it makes it more bearable not having found someone to settle down with. And suggesting that women are gullible for believing the men they're with are decent comes across as bitterness rather than insight.

100%

I find that people who say "all men are shit" or "all women are shit" are themselves a bit shit tbh.

My view is that there are just not a lot of decent, relationship worthy men out there for the women who are also decent and relationship worthy, there is simply a greater number or women with these qualities. By relationship worthy I mean like a ship that is sea worthy, has the stability and all the required rigging and navigation equipment and essentially they also desire a committed relationship. There are plenty of fundamentally good men who are for a multitude of potential reasons not great at relationships and plenty of men who are neither good or good at relationships.

The men who are both good and relationship worthy are taken early in life (late teens, early 20's) and because of their fundamental goodness and relationship skills they tend to be held on to for the long haul by their partners.

The men who are available after that point have not managed to attract a partner in the first instance or they have been rejected by their previous partners or failed to maintain a relationship long term due. There will be a small number of relationship worthy and decent men who become available due partnering up with the wrong woman but they will be snapped up again in short order due to their rarity.

I imagine it makes it more bearable not having found someone to settle down with I had plenty of offers. Plenty of relationships. Not a single one of them was worthy of it. I never, ever thought I’d end up with these views but over the years I’ve seen enough to draw the conclusions I have.

Why would it be “unbearable” to not find someone to settle down with? A lot of women do not feel that way, and a plethora of research shows that single women are happier than those who are married, particularly as they get older.

funny thing about those researches: they are all based on what you report or claim about yourself. I dont think everyone needs to be married and have kids to have a fulfilling life. but let's be honest people generally would rather have their teeth pulled than admit that something is not going well in their life. oh yeah I totally dont even want anyone in my life, I meant to be single as I am happier. totally. all according to plan. again: not saying every single one of needs someone of course not. but I am willing to wager that a lot would rather share life someone if they could make sure its with someone who is nice. it is an opinion I could be wrong. but never in my life have I met an old lady who is not lonely who would love to have loved ones around her.

The current older generation grew up with immense social pressure/expectation to get married. They also were only just having careers available to them, only just beginning to have financial independence even possible to them. My mum was genuinely afraid of being "left on the shelf" in her early 20s, which seems laughable now.

It doesn't really compare to the social shift there has been, where women are now actively choosing singledom more. Nothing to stop her having loved ones that are not a husband, either.

Also, a lot of these old ladies will be widows. Having a husband doesn't mean he'll be there in your dotage. Men tend to die earlier, so a man as your main hope not to die alone is poor plan.

that is true. but there is a difference between being alone for 10 years after your partner died or 30.

It's really disorientating. My ex after 25 years dospite pretending to be a feminist clearly barely thought I was subhuman by the way he treated me when we broke up and the reasons he gave. I think he resented me for not being a trad wife, basically. No celebrating him doing the hoovering, no endless sex on his terms, no just doing everything he wanted.

It's been so damaging to realise that I had no idea at all how much he didn't consider me to be a fellow human being worthy of respect. Awfulnand part of my post breakup breakdown, couldn't really tell what was real and I'd been living a lie for half my life!

But I still have close male friends. I don't think the same of them.

After 30 years, it's not a shock! 😂

And women are far better at creating their own social networks and happy home environment for themselves.

I don't think comparing old ladies you know that probably didn't choose to be single against a new generation who did choose it makes any sense.

We’re just normal men.
We’re just innocent men.

One of my best friends was an escort in her twenties. Despite all the weird sex acts and aggression that was involved she said the actual worst thing about the job was how “normal” most of her clients were. Normal jobs, married, presented as normal run of the mill men yet were there ,with her, paying for sex, or the worst - the ones who paid her to do things while they watched but wouldn’t have sex as they said they were married and then expected her to think they were brilliant for their restraint. She says she has never trusted a man since.

Please don’t ever get in a position where you have any responsibility for supporting people, especially vulnerable people

I don't know these women "are" types of sentences are always just generalisations that sound good on paper. some women are and some aren't that is the honest truth. some women will be happy on their own, some won't.
as for social circles - all the trendy and cool besties you went out to have mojitos with will grow old just as much so I would not compare having social circles to family members. to each their own really. I have plenty of friends who are happy on their own but equally men too. so again the end result is that we are all different, we are happy with different things and some of us are shit people some of us are awesome. that is how it is. and anyone being hellbent on any extreme is delusional and speaks from personal hurt rather than accepting the reality of things. nobody is the centre of the world to make their own experience a universal rule.

I think this is probably one of the saddest posts I have read . I am perhaps lucky but have always been surrounded by wonderful caring men . Starting with my dad who idolised my mother and who was my hero . I was then married to the kindest, funniest, man who was also a great father . I sadly lost him after 40 years . I found true love again in my sixties - again a man who is a carbon copy - who cherishes me and loves me unconditionally. All faithful and honest. I have a son who is a good father and faithful and hard working - yes I am proud of him . My partner has three wonderful boys - and now my daughter has also found a true gentleman that adores her . Not a creep or a philanderer among them . I am sad so many of you have not managed to find these gems .

Man here and sorry but LOL!!!!!!!!!

"All the women friends in my life are great" - yeah, because you don't live with them and mould your life around them.

Do you SERIOUSLY believe only men can be bad?? Some women let men believe a child is theirs when it isn't - that's far worse than cheating IMO.

Honestly, get real - there are bad men and bad women - it's nice to see some women here commenting the same thing.